1. Kor seem pretty perfect for this shard, but they've been used to recently I'd guess. Gnomes could be a good fit here as well. Birds are another one I think fit perfectly here. I'm not sure where we would put dragons in this set, but this shard immediately made me think of Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind .
2. I would just say as far as broad characters, this would be the opposite of Ulgris. Characters here would have big personalities and very humanistic.
3. First strike and double strike should be in here.
4. This seems like an equipment shard... especially w/ tinkering dwarves and goblins.

Dragons would be kind of cool. Goblins are known for their trading in and out of magic so who is to say that one family wouldn't trade or buy a crap load of dragon eggs and raise a secret dragon colony in the mountains. Dinosaurs would be kinda cool too just because they can be dug up and maybe re-animated with technology.

For white we should try to get some large birds, like the aforementioned griffins, hawks, birds, etc.

For blue, I can see a heck of a lot of blue mages being hired by the goblins and dwarves for some dirty work. We could do UW OR UR Mage cards, those would be sick. Also throw in some fish, crabs from the rivers.

I would also think that if they are scavengers, they would have to be able to find some old goblin or dwarve equipment lying around, as both are famous in lore for their craftsmanship, so I think equipment should be really prevelent.

This seems like a good artifact block with the goblins and dwarves smithing up various creations. Most artifacts shouldn't be too magic oriented. Lots of equipment various tools and crude machines (think Juggernaut ) that sort of thing.

I agree that there should be birds and griffins in this set. Maybe even the occasional dragon (these should be very rare though). I also think golems would be good and beasts could work. Also some form of sea life such as fish and crabs.

Land destruction and artifact fetching should both be present as they can represent mining and smithing respectively.

I think artifact fetching and land destruction is good. Maybe include constructs or gnome-servants? I like mountainous griffins, hawks, occasional drakes or dragons, maybe a mythical sphinx. Needs Ornithopter , and artifacts that are either cheap scavenger stuff or the good, old sturdy stuff. Good keywords are first/double strike, flying (obviously), perhaps vigilance or haste.

For the dwarves, maybe a few blue land or mana-acceleration mages, cards that gets bonuses just for having equipment on them, and high toughness.

For the goblins, maybe a few blue artifact fetcher or flying granter mages, cards that can "steal" equipment, and high power.

this is begging for equipment.. considering they trade all the time...

plus, they'll need some equipment to strap onto the griffins to ride em.. i just see a lot of equipment going on..

Goblin Balloon Brigade seems like something that would be here :)

Legendary creatures are in abundance. Special lands may be a part of this shard.

Lots of removal and control cards.

Mountains = gliders. A new take on Kitesail or Neurok Hoversail ?

Mountains also = ogres.

Hasty creatures, Attach may make a comeback for instant speed equipment, Recover was good and fits the theme of scavenging goblins, Cycling maybe?

One last thing, with "Clamp", does that mean that equipments can't boost P/T levels? Also, does negging not work? Can it still have counters placed on it?

dwarves should be red / white, and goblins red / blue and nere the two shall meet!

I like the idea of gnomes as a sort of blue version of dwarves. Tricky illusionist artificers.

Are we allowed to suggest another new mechanic, or does the extra mechanic have to be a reprint? I'm thinking of something like a 'Scavenge' mechanic that lets you sacrifice a permanent and discard a card in order to return a card from graveyard to hand -- and then a few cards that give you bonuses for sac'ing them or discarding them or pulling them out of the graveyard.

something like Bazaar Trader seems like a good fit.

dual lands that care about land combos --

"Mountaintop Reservoir

~cardname~ enters the battlefield tapped.

If you control an island and a mountain when ~cardname~ enters the battlefield, add RU to your mana pool."

I feel like blue and red are constantly bartering, trying to get the better of one another commercially, with white sort of arbitrating the whole mess.

eh. I love worldbuilding.

1. for creatures i could see: gnomes, constructs/golems, drakes, beasts, birds, crabs/fish, and goats (just kidding)
2. for legends maybe an master artificer or even a "clan" leader or two i.e. granketh dur and the leader of burg or something similar.
3. haste (goblins abuse haste the most so i think it fits), vigilance, first strike/double strike, flying, and maybe some protection from creature types (i.e. goblin/dwarf)
4. equipments sound good but if im understanding clamp right equipments that give +X/+X is pretty useless so maybe equipment that grants ability buffs more than P/T buffs,

maybe have artifacts that gain more abilities for the number of other artifacts you control.

i could see some artifact hate on this shard as well as light removal. i could see artifact searching and bringing artifacts back from the graveyard due to scavenging/salvaging.

Fodder Cannon MK2 would be nice.

@xeratheenigma We definitely need contraptions and riggers. Steamflogger Boss FTW

As I was typing, spellcheck changed "rigger" to "digger." Maybe a dwarf subtype, with land-related abilities?

Also, I'm not a big fan of Clamp, especially not in an equipment-heavy set. Potentially "PT cant be changed by spells/abilities your opponent controls."?

@dude1818: reading the description for sorok, steamflogger boss came straight to mind and i think messing with contraptions would be fun.

i forgot to mention that i think some land destruction on this shard would be nice as well

a small mockup of a some spells i could see being on this shard are:

Obsessive Scrounging, X,RU instant as an additional cost to cast Obsessive Scrounging sacrifice a land.

search your library for an artifact with converted mana cost X and put it onto the battlefield.

@Jarrod_0067

clamp basically means that the p/t cannot be changed of the creature. This means that no spell and /or counters that are placed on the creature will change the printed p/t of the card.

An important distinction however is that the counters and effect are still placed on the card meaning that if a creature with clamp loses clamp somehow, it is then effected by all counters and /ro effects placed on it that would change its power and /or toughness.

remember that equipment can do a lot not just give increase/decrease to p/t. many abilities can be granted. Keep the ideas flowing guys

It'd be funny if there was a Goblin Sparkmage...

Like the ideas so far. This is a strong group.

Yes, it sounds like this might largely be a humanoid set, but I'll start with the critters...

I've been thinking for a long time that I would like to see a set use dinosaurs as a theme. Irindu may have been more appropriate than this. (Although dinos in one shard vs. mythological creatures in another could be fun).

But maybe Pterodactyls in this set. Maybe drakes. Dragons are getting a bit overused, so I would keep them minimal. Maybe just one (possibly legend) as the big bad mamma jamma of the set.

Griffins vs. Drakes? Or Pterodactyls? But perhaps, in this case, they are not on top of the food chain. The ground humanoids are, somehow. Perhaps the reason could be that the flyers depend on something that is provided by the Dwarves and/or Goblins(maybe some precious or life-giving material that can only be obtained by mining). Perhaps the Goblins have become derelict in their duties with this.

In that were the case, probably forget the Pterodactyls. They would not have the intelligence for that arrangement. Who am I kidding? They belong in Irindu anyway. Griffins and Drakes could have intelligence, though.

Intelligence could be high in this shard. The way the Goblins were described sounds pretty intellectually advanced...as Goblins go, at least.

As per humanoids, we could bring back Kor and Rebels. I see less "magic", such as wizards, and more nuts & bolts stuff here. Not sure where that leaves blue, though. Maybe the flyers. But a blue humanoid would balance things. Yeah, maybe the earlier suggestion of Gnomes. Merfolk could fit just fine, I think. River variety, only. Maybe they have mining ability, as well. There could be rivers that run underground, at the bases of mountains, making Merfolk the only ones who can access certain things.

More later...

riggers and contraptions could be cool, but i'm not sure how well we'd go with it. We don't really have anything to base them on, but i would be interested to see the community's views on Riggers/Contraptions. As everybody else has mentioned, land destruction would be nice. And this is DEFINATELY an equipment shard. And quite a few legendaries, like kamigawa (All the tribe/clam leaders). Legendary Equipments would be epic too. I reckon we also need an instant or two which affect Clamp.

Untitled Card

Cost: R

Instant

All creatures lose Clamp until end of turn

Untitled Card

Cost: B

Instant

All creatures gain Clamp until end of turn

I would like to see a very thorough definition of Clamp.

Does nothing AT ALL change P/T? Giant Growth , Glorious Anthem , counters?

How does a player utilize that when building a deck? How is it useful if your opponent doesn't happen to run spells that affect your creatures' P/T?

I guess we make cards that hurt ALL creatures' P/T, and make our guys immune to the effects. I can't think what else.

@vic Rebels ftw, but maybe in this shard it should just be the two superior types and some others that really don't care what happens between the warring races; or even ones who want to stoke the flames. In this case, Advisors might be nice. Griffins or Hippogriffs for the fliers.

oh, also! Minotaurs? Red Minotaurs that are your traditional angry war-types, but also a group of blue or white minotaurs with maze-related themes / abilities -- artificing, tapping creatures down, removing attackers from combat.

example: Lok, Warden of Cereth Na

Also, I see the white as a meeting place for blue and red creatures -- as such, members of blue and red races / tribes might have become civilized; they've printed black goblins; it would be interesting to see a small group of white goblins and merfolk who've given up their tribal ways for peace and commerce on the plains.

example: Goblin Townguard

Maybe not dragons, per se, but draconians, instead? (or dragon-men, or Trogdors, or whatever you want to call them. I'm calling them 'indra' in my concept cards)

examples: Mistwing Indra, Cindersnout Indra, Steelhide Indra

I know people don't like auras, but I think this shard would be a good place for some; maybe a cycle of rare auras that bounce back into play whenever they're put into the graveyard, to stop people from worrying about getting two-for-oned every time they play an aura?

examples: Kher-Abbat's Glorystorm, Kher-Balaac's Rageglory, Kher-Cherk's Stormrage

and I love the idea from the original post that height = social status. as such: Summit Ambush

Okay more stream of consciousness brain-spewing....

It's starting to look to me like this:

A working class shard of middle-intelligence life. Lacking in beasty or other low-intelligence creatures. Also lacking Wizards or other solely intellect-based beings. Flying creatures also prevalent.

Humanoid creatures: Dwarves, Goblins, Gnomes, Merfolk. I think we may have to have Humans, too, for White. Although, so far I don't think Negashards has humans anywhere. Could be first time ever in MTG. Do we want that? Do we bring back Kithkin? Someone would live out on the plains, right? If we do use Humans in only one shard, I think this is the one, though. And Kor & Rebels do seem like a good fit.

Mining is huge here. Even the Merfolk do it from the waterways. They can get to certain things underwater(artifacts, gemstones of value and/or magical power?) that no one else can reach. Perhaps gnomes are the only exception to mining. They are like Lepruchuans. Tricksters, and teleporters, etc. They can make things "switch". Maybe they steal, too.

The other big theme is the Flyers. Maybe giant birds with Griffins as the top dogs, as well as drakes, maybe pterodactyls.

The flying reptiles would be a dangerous threat to the humanoids, so somehow the giant avians provide protection, and possibly transportation service.

Birds vs. Reptiles in the sky.

Why the protection? The bird/griffins are dependent upon something that only the humanoids can provide. Something that is mined? Life-giving gemstone of some kind? Or a molten liquid substance? How does this powerful substance affect the humanoid trade dynamic? What do the Merfolk have to offer? What material of value is in those rivers? Buried weapons/equipment from a past civilization? Another valuable mineral substance? Are gnomes a theft hazard to all?

We have dwarves and goblins working in mountain bases, merfolk in the rivers, gnomes in the aether, so what about white/plains? Are there open grassy fields, or are the open spaces filled with townships, where trading/commerce is big? Or both? We may need humans/kithkin to be here. Some one has to do the farming, right? This would be part of the trade economy.

White: Humans/Kithkin. Blue: Merfolk/Gnomes. Red: Dwarves/Goblins.

Perhaps there is some kind of a ground creature that does battle with them all. Viashino? Something we invent?

This looks like a hand-to-hand combat shard, with copious use of weapons, and equipment. Maybe gemstones have abilities that can figure into this, as well. Gems that strengthen, gems that weaken(perhaps giving Clamp a purpose), gems that otherwise affect things. Invisibility, teleportation, etc.

I think maybe all magical ability in this shard comes from gemstones.

Griffins/Hippogriffs have laid their golden eggs at the top of the highest peak in Sorok for centuries. Maybe there could be some Dwarf hero who hatches the eggs when all the adult Griffins/Hippogriffs have been enslaved? Azo, Bringer of Asylum

I see the Clamp info in post #13, now. Got it.

Still seems tricky to ensure that it would be useful, when building a deck, but I may just not be seeing it, yet.

about clamp - it is basically a defensive ability - think about it - ignores wither and infect, etc - the cost you pay is +1/+1 counters and effect dont work on you!

i always love the brainstorming post of the shards its great seeing everyone else's ideas :)

i suspect we will see some tricky cards like Schismotivate which would make use of clamp to prevent drawbacks on your field if your opponent has no creatures to target.

for a white humanoid race i like kithkins as an option they seem like they would fit in on sorok

the gemstones idea is pretty cool as well we could toy around with this quite a bit

i wouldnt mind seeing a draconian race but i dont feel this is the shard for them. to me draconians feel red-red/black

All of these ideas are looking awesome!

I just wanted to step in and point out that this is the last shard with blue in it. So, if there is anything blue-related you want in the set that wasn't on Irindu or Ulgris, Sorok is the last place to incorporate it.

of all the things i've seen listed we really have only came up with one evergreen keyword for blue which is "flying" i dont think shroud fits this shard that well so maybe a set of unblockable creatures as well as it fits the theme of digging/mining theme of sorok i.e. Goblin Tunneler for red and Phantom Warrior for blue

then for white we could have a creature or two that have abilities to block unblockable creatures i.e. Trap Runner

note: i think blue should be the only color with unblockable creatures, where as red can make "weak" creatures temporarily unblockable, and white the ability to block unblockable creatures even if it is only one or two creature and a spell or so.

I'd say Kor are a great idea, so we don't need humans. Magic-users should appear in some way here. Artificers? This shard does feel very equipment-oriented, so something like Stoneforge Mystic would be good. Since many creatures would have clamp, the equipment should give abilities. My idea:

Mountain Drill 3

Artifact-Equipment

Equipped creature gains mountainwalk.

Whenever the equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, destroy one mountain on the battlefield.

Equip 3

This shard needs some sort of blue magic race. I don't think Merfolk are a great idea, because this shard is not very much ocean. Vedalken would be a better fit, maybe they have been enslaved by the goblins and a few work for the dwarves, wielding various types of artifact magic?

Color Breakdown

White: Kor, Griffins, Dwarves Red: Ogres, Dwarves, Goblins Blue: Drakes, Vedalken

With clamp so prevalent we could give bigger bonuses in equipments and white combat tricks. What about a gnome magician who can tap to give two target creatures clamp.

I think the dwarves and goblins should always be feuding. The creatures of the sky are terrorists. Striking randomly and with great devastation. They could however be enslaved by legendary figures. The gnomes are the underground. They thieve and have magical illusiveness. They don't stand up in combat situations and instead are unblockable or set traps for their foes. The merfolk are the Switzerland of the whole situation and are known to be very wealthy. Their wealth often tempts foolish goblins and gnomes. Though they generally live peacefully in their marvelous underwater fortresses the merfolk have a disciplined army and a special force of magicians who can hold their own even against the gnomes. The merfolk act decisively and powerfully in war but only to edge of the seas and rivers.

@ post # 24:

So then does that mean that Clamp is something that can be turned on, when you want it for protection, and leave it off if you want to boost? I was envisioning a more permanent effect, leaving you unable to boost if you want to.

i believe clamp is a static ability, it just doesn't shut off when you want it and then turn back on to protect the creature.

though there may be some cards in the set that cause a creature to lose/gain clamp temporarily or some creatures may have abilities that cause them or others to lose/gain clamp temporarily.

I like Jarrod's egg-laying griffin idea a lot. And the legend card he created. I think we could make use of Egg creatures. FEAR THE EGG TRIBE. : )

Anyway, it could also feed into why the humanoids have power over the griffins. Something to do with the eggs. The legendary figure idea also works for that.

Possibly the goblins or dwarves keep hatcheries, and raise griffins. That could go someplace...

About blue abilities...landwalk could be prevalent. The merfolk could penetrate into other territories. Gnomes can teleport maybe. (maybe someone can figure out what we do with that). Some stealing effects could also be included. Steal Artifact , or some simpler stuff.

Thanks for pointing out that Kor are not humans. I had overlooked that(wasn't too active during Zendikar). Yeah, in that case, I say Kor for sure, humans possibly only as Rebels. Maybe they are a pesky fringe minority that live out on the outskirts of the plains, away from the mountains.

I still think Merfolk make sense. I think they can be freshwater river-dwellers, and that they could play a role in the societal dynamic. Post #29 looked good about that. And I still like the idea that there are underwater treasures, that only the Merfolk can get to, giving them their niche of power.

I agree with dwarves feuding with goblins.

I know Goats were joked about, but logically they make a lot of sense to me in this land environment. And they would probably be a logical food source for the griffins, who apparently don't eat the humanoids. We could do something fodder-related with goats.

I think Viashino make sense, too, in terms of the land environment. Long stretches of flatland for running, river's edge spots for prey to gather and drink. And of course, they are red, so mountains. Makes sense, doesn't it? Probably a minor theme though.

Do we want the Sky War theme, as in griffins vs drakes, or just keep it simpler with a griffin theme, and some birds thrown in for filler? Drakes gives something to blue.

I can't get my brain to get into the whole clan thing. Not sure if it will or not. I see that it isn't showing up in the posts.

The gemstones idea is really taking shape in my mind. I am picturing gems that emanate great energetic power and effects, of various kinds. The mining could be based around this. And some could be found underwater. Also there could exist a small number of very large individual gemstones(Legendary Artifacts) that emanate so much power that they effect life on this shard.

Okay, enough for now....

What do we think of this...?

white: Kor

white/red: Dwarves

red: Viashino

red/blue: Goblins

blue: Merfolk

blue/white: Gnomes

white/red/blue: The Flyers

My brain sorts things in terms of balance, so this is how I think. Not sure if anyone else relates to it or not.

Actually, maybe Goblins can enslave the Griffins and Dwarfs can hire Drakes. That way they both fight and there would be two distinct teams

A place downstream from the Dur mountain range (from the example) is the Ilddyn Isle, where Drakes breed. Upon entering the realm of the Drake one must bring something precious, whether it be gold, gems or knowledge. In return, the Drakes will help the gift-giver until they feel they have done sufficient. If, however, they don't get paid in full, they will go on a rampage.

Maybe the Griffin don't have to be enslaved.

That way maybe Dwarves can be allied with the griffin(both as noble species), with some kind of symbiotic relationship, and the Goblins can be teamed with the Drakes(willingly or by treachery).

(Dwarves + Griffins) vs. (Goblins + Drakes) makes more sense to me.

That could be fun, huh?

1) Creature types-- Having Red and White in the same shard I think Samurai should see a return. Also I see, Human Mages, Dragons/whelps, artifact creatures, Elementals, Angels (in general lots of flyers)

2) Icons-- With opposing elemental type magic so near each other (red, blue) I see a lot of chaos ripping through the landscape unintelligent and non-elemental surface dwelling life should be kept to a minimum unless tough enough to withstand daily torment. Id like to see some Iconic equipment that finds away around Clamp (prevents damage or causes damage) this with help circumvent some of the drawbacks associated.

3) Key words-- I would love to see Arcane spells make a return and they fit this shard beautify. Also, I think Protection, Haste, Vigilance, Double strike (not first strike), Flying, Shroud, Unblockable all fit nicely. (If samurai are returning then bushido)

4) Miscellaneous-- It is important we find various creative ways to buff creatures with clamp. I think that Double Strike would be highly useful also any equipment or enchantments that have effect based triggers that prevent, redirect or cause damage would also work around Camp. Lastly we should see creatures with Clamp that tap to deal damage to another creature or player equal to there power (this is something that rarely shows on playable cards due to an almost brokenness that Clamp fixes)

@Battlecry1986

I thought about Samurai too... But I think they fit even better in RWB.

In addition to the dwarves and golbins, i think dragons would be appropriate here, and also griffins.

I also like the idea of double strike, haste, maybe some fire breathing and maybe as a nod to blue we can include scry? Especially since they have considered moving card draw to red any how? Also how do people feel about using costing for this shard that is either mana... ie either blue or red can be used or red/white etc. Would love to see a lord or two... maybe one for the dwarves since the goblins already have a bunch?

As to the artifacts that makes some sense... but the equipment doesn't necessarily make sense because of the clamp mechanic. But lets add another creature type here how about Golem? Each side could be making their own golems to use against each other? Dwarven golems can be pristine and nice, and goblin ones can be looking like piles of junk, that moves. Also we can do plenty of artifacts with out doing equipment. Or i suppose we could have the equipment doing the damage etc rather than the creature?

What seems to be some of the general consensus Creatures- Sentient RED-Gobline, Dwarves Blue-Merfolk, Gnomes White-Kor, Human, Kithkin (needs to be brought down to two i thinks)

Non Sentient Red- Blue-Drakes White-Griffins

Themes- Equipment Theft

@ exarkun809

yeah samurai whouldn't really fit the blue on this shard...

What were your thoughts on Arcane making a comeback?

what about for non-sentient red: beasts and a dragon or two.

i think beasts fit here pretty well and the nonsentient creatures we have so far all have flying and i think we need one that is ground based. if we do decide to include some dragons it would have to be one or two, because i think too many dragons on this shard would run its flavor

I feel like we tend to focus on creatures rather than spells in these brainstorms. just a note.

I see the merfolk here as being basically peaceful; when they're called on to fight, they do it mostly through magic -- I'd like to see a cycle of cards about summoning water spirits / elementals -- something like

River Guardian

I'd also like to see a card that represents the merfolk gaining advantage from things that other cultures throw away into the river -- something like

Salvage Bonanza

With clamp running around, we should definitely spread out more power / toughness pumps than normal -- red creatures with haste and power bumps; blue creatures with maybe vigilance and toughness bumps (yes, I recognize that vigilance is mostly white) and white critters with bumps to both P/T and first strike.

in fact, with clamp, you could do some interesting things like 'all red creatures gain +2/+0' or 'whenever a creature blocks, it gets +2/+0' and then have a card that gives all your opponent's creatures clamp.

clamp-related examples:

Resurgent Robes

Victory Prayer

Ok so I know it was never popular but wouldnt Banding make sense? If we add banding then you can turn a 3/3 and 2/2 with Clamp into a 5/5 just think it is nice way to still allow creature building

landot makes a good point.

This does seem like the shard that would best suit burn spells, and the always tempting R/U instants and sorceries. So let's not forget to brainstorm non-creature spells.

Continued...

A little 2/2 double strike banded with a little 2/1 lifelink yum!

We have touched on land destruction... forgot about that.

Also, as mistergreen527 pointed out, this will be the last shard with blue... I think bounce and library search would be great in this shard. Bounce makes the most sense as a counter to Ulgris' tokens/counter mechanics.

creature types I believe should be on this shard

the obvious- dwarf,goblin,griffin

not so obvious - orc,gnome,giant,crab,aven(bird people),dragon,drake,avatar(like Personal Incantation not blue seven foot blue elves)

Since this shard is ripe with mining it should be filled with plenty of non basic and legendary lands.Creatures in this shard should have plenty of interaction with lands.Be it destruction or mana ramp or other. Fortifications seems like a natural fit here also.

Other keywords that should be included equipment,first strike,double strike,protection,vigilance,kinship,flying,defender,scry

Since this seems like a heavy red themed shard I think a side game flavor could be coin flipping but instead of good/bad lets make it good/better.

As far as an iconic character how about a goblin planeswalking emperor who wants to take over a legendary mountain of immense power and take goblins from the whole multiverse to serve his interests here.He can use pilgrimage as his selling point to convince the goblins to come.Goblins seem pretty well to do here so it is not too hard of a sell.The hard part.It is a dwarven owned mountain.Cliche yet it makes sense.

I don't think scry is evergreen.

okay so just other things to keep in mind and little overview of what he have so far. (in the entire set) So far ulgris and irindu have been what we have worked on

Irindu gains advantage through card advantage and turning your opponents abilities against them

Ulgris gains advantage through Many small and dangerous creatures/tokens, and by making the word around it less intelligent. also a bit of graveyard manipulation.

now this is the last blue set. a Classic blue abilitiy that has not been explored is bounce. Also its relationship to artifacts.

plus think spellls

card idea:

Past, Present, Future

Sorcery

3UU

exile a permanent you control, the top card of your graveyard and the top card of your library. Then put one of those cards on top of your library, and one into the graveyard. You may play the 3rd card without paying its casting cost.

Flavor text: Time is a river. Merfolk understand the one as well as the other.

Instead of having spells that give your creature +3/+3 we should look a stuff like Prevent the next 3 damage a creature you control would receive and/or when a creature you control is blocked deal 3 damage to the blocking creature... just a thought

Two words: colored artifacts. And I don't mean artifact creatures. There aren't many red artifacts.

we all seem to be struggling a bit with the White creature type. Human would make sense (because they're everywhere) but i rekon we should be creative and step away from the norm. Kor would be cool (since this is an artifact/equipment based shard) but Kor were just used in Zendikar, so i think we should use something a little "older". Kithkin could be okay as well. But what about Kitsune?

If we bring back arcane spells, we can have the dwaves and goblins cosntantly fighting eachother, while these two magical races (merfolk and kitsune) sit back at enjoy their life of luxury, only fighting when they need to defend their territory. The Merfolk can be finding underwater treasures and making a huge profit, while te Kitsune are finding magical treasures and using them to expand their knowledge.

I also very much like the Goblins + Drakes vs the Dwarves + Griffins. And we should definitely have gnomes. I imagine these mischievous little creatures running around, stealing everything.

In terms of non-creature spells:

Arcane spells everywhere, but more so in the Kitsune (because they've been spending all their time as a civilization reasearching magic).

Clamp affecting abilities. I mentioned in an earlier post about instant spells giving or taking away clamp until end of turn.

Plenty of bounce abilities for the Gnomes and Merfolk. And i would like to see scry for them as well, but i don't think it's an evergreen keyword.

Artifact stealing and manipulation. I agree with having coloured artifacts.

Afterthought: creatures with "1: this creature gains/loses clamp until end of turn

before i knew what colors clamp was for. i had came up with this guy Resolute Woodkin i know his colors are off but i could see some cards or a cycle that have abilities similar to the woodkin just using different keywords i.e. first strike instead of trample.

as for noncreature i would like to see some bounce spells as mentioned above. i would also like to see some spells that neg one creatures power while buffing another creatures. as for burn/removal i would like to see very creatice burn and/or removal because i feel the R/B/W shard will be the shard with the most burn/removal.

Pirate Cannon RW1

Artifact- Equipment

Equipped creature gets -4/-4

Whenever equipped creature attacks deal damage to target creature or player equal to its power.

Equip 2

Something like this?

@leon_raymond foxes are cool. What about a legendary fox with ability to control the elements?

Also, tribal MUST return

Tribal Artifacts!

Throne of Treachery

War-Axe of Dur

Gnomic Forge

Silverclaw Saddle

Puddledredger

okay, I have been playing for a long time, but I don't know anyone who uses the term "evergreen".

Will someone please explain it to me?

"evergreen keywords" refer to every keyword that is seen in every core set i.e. lifelink, flying, haste, trample, deathtouch, and etc.

also i forgot to mention that most of them appear in every set (though in older sets it may not have been a keyword at the time) hope this helps.

also here are some non-evergreen keywords: kinship, recover, imprint, madness, and threshold are just a few examples

I was thinking about tribal artifacts too. Equipment, more specifically. Merfolk, dwarf, Kor, Goblin equipment could be good.

I see gnomes as being a big source for bounce effects. Legions set had lots of spell-like abilities happen thru creatures, rather than instant or sorcery. This shard might do that.

Flavor-wise I don't see Samurai here. Seems like a different world to me. (See below)*

Elementals and golems are interesting ideas.

I don't think Kor are problematic. I don't think it matters if they were recently used, since this is a fantasy set anyway. What the heck? Let's use what works, and what we like. Why put that limitation on ourselves? But I would want to figure out what their relationship is to the other tribes.

I know this is the Red-centered shard, but we could do less focus on burn spells than red normally does. We could focus more on straight creature combat. Boosts, speed, and artifact matters. The influence of white here could bring white's sense of "community" to red, and give the creatures more power thru numbers and cooperation. Blue influence brings some evasiveness and misdirection. Our guys can hit quickly, in numbers, and can be elusive on the counterstrike.

• As I read that last paragraph back, it does sound a little more Samurai-like. Okay, you know what? We could have Kor Samurai. That could work. I think Samurai sometimes lived up on mountains in real life. They could also have a relationship with the Griffins.

It has been said that we have not focused on sorcery and instant spells as much, but that may be how this shard turns out to be. It might be a very boots-on-the-ground shard with hand-to-hand combat, equipment, and Legends(Creature and Artifact) that can effect the whole group.

At first I was not into the land destruction idea, but I'm starting to come around to it. Esp. if we do less attention than normal on the burn spells.

Post #55 finally makes Clamp look like something we might actually put to good use. It's kinda tricky to use clamp in Red-centered, when red wants to give power boosts.

landot: I like past, present, future.

And I still like the griffin egg matters stuff.

We may want to also focus on not just the in-fighting of this shard, but on what it can do when unified and attacked by an outside force. Ulgris had a clear sense of that. You walked into Ulgris, and it all came after you. What happens if the Goblins, dwarves, merfolk, gnomes, Kor, birds, and Griffins come together?

Remember it would be a shard vs. shard type of set. A Sorok deck would take on an Ulgris deck, for example. Ironically Ulgris seemed incredibly cooperative. This one, less so. I guess that's because Ulgris had no creatures with ego, and this one does. Interesting how it mirrors real life.

Xera - Good explanation of evergreen. Thanks. Odd word to use for that.

Forgot to say, I would also be open to the Banding idea. That could make sense in this shard. And I always thought that ability had potential. But we have to remember that the creatures don't gain each other's abilities.

as much as i love the tribal artifact idea (and believe me i do love it) i dont think it is the way to go. the reason i say this is because we couldn't just do tribal artifacts we would have to do tribal-sorceries, tribal-enchantments, and etc. as well.

i am not saying we cant create artifacts that affect certain tribes or what have you, just take the tribal aspect out of the artifacts/equipment type line.

@vic: you were curious on how they would take on a common foe such as outsiders from another shard.

maybe they postpone their squabbles and fight the common enemy as a united front (though i could see the gnomes disappearing from the battlefield to loot the other tribes). this is where i could see sorok's inhabitants putting all of their engineering knowledge together to create devastating machines/equipment to fight their common foe. then after all of the fighting they would either resume their fighting each other or be near peace talks after fighting alongside each other for a common goal.

Goblins are usually so stupid but here they are just plain nasty. I'm already on the dwarf side.

Kor doesn't seem to the way to go. They are too recent, and it doesn't seem like they would live here anyway. Kithkin neither. Humans would walk all over goblins if they were here. Loxodons have been used recently in scars, but the elephant could work. If all else fails, there are cats to think about.

or the kitsune. But i won't nag you all. Kitsune will only really fit if we bring back Arcane spells

or foxes of an entirely different race

Angel Native to Serras Realm, Angels are beautiful winged humanoids primarily aligned with white, though angels in red, black and blue are not unheard of. Examples: Akroma, Angel of Fury , Filigree Angel & Iridescent Angel

Atog Native to Dominaria, Rath and Mirrodin, Atogs are small imp-like creatures that consume a variety of things to gain the necessary nutrition to grow. Examples: Atog , Auratog & Phantatog

Aven Native to Otaria, Dominaria and Bant, Aven lend their services to the Order, an idealistic, intolerant society of nomads. Examples: Kangee, Aerie Keeper , Aven Squire & Aven Smokeweaver

Leonin Native to Mirrodin and Naya, Leonin are a proud race of Lionfolk led by kha, a warrior king. Examples: Ajani Vengeant , Raksha Golden Cub , Leonin Elder

Drake Native to Dominaria, Rath, Mercadia, Mirrodin, Ravnica, Alara, and Zendikar, Drakes are quick and agile flying reptiles descended from dragons. Examples: Azimaet Drake , Canyon Drake & Tempest Drake

Elemental /Weird Native to Ravnica, weirds are elemental crossbreds they resemble blobs and bubbles molded togther in a humanoid form. Examples: Gelectrode , Petrahydrox & Steamcore Weird

Giant A Classic species native to many planes, Giants Associated mostly with red are large brutish humanoids ranging in size from that of a house to a mountain. Examples: Brion Stoutarm , Sunhome Enforcer & Frost Titan

Kithkin Native to Dominaria and Lorwyn/Shadowmoor, Kithkin are small Halfling-like species they have a strong sence of community and simplicity. Examples: Figure of Destiny , Kinscaer Harpoonist & Preeminent Captain

Licid Native to Rath, Licids are symbiotic, beetle-like creatures capable of snapping their bodies to jump on a host organism. Examples: Enraging Licid , Quickening Licid & Gliding Licid

Merfolk /Saprazzan Native to Mercadia, Saprazzan merfolk have the unique ability to become legged on land. They tolerate other inhabitants but make it clear that they have no interest in have any serious dealings with them. (hold humans & goblins in particular contempt) Examples: Saprazzan Raider , Saprazzan Bailiff & Saprazzan Heir

Roc Native to Dominara, Rabiah and Ravnica, the Rocs are large, ferocious birds native to the mountains & Desert. Examples: Crimson Roc , Roc Egg & Roc of Kher Ridges

Soratami Native to Kamigawa, Soratami or moonfolk are cloud dwelling blue humonoids, they are highly manipulative and detest other races. Examples: Meloku the Clouded Mirror , Oboro Breezecaller & Uyo, Silent Prophet

Viashino Native to Dominaria, Ravnica, and Jund, Viashino are lizard-folk descended from dragons. Despite their warrior codes, the Viashino are renowned metalsmiths and craftsfolk. Examples: Skyclaw Thrash , Viashino Weaponsmith & Viashino Slasher

avens may be a good choice

+1 for Avens. White, flying, and they probably see Goblins and merfolk the way hawks see rabbits and trout.

Here's just some thoughts I'm currently having. Partly my own opinions and partly me playing devil's advocate.

1) There seems to be a lot of agreement that Sorok should be an artifact shard. My hesitance with this is that to add artifacts, it means you have to subtract the colored spell count for the shard. For the set as a whole, this puts red, white, and blue at a disadvantage numerically. Think of Limited. With less red cards, it's less likely that red will be drafted. I'm not liking the dis-balance in the color wheel. The obvious solution here would be to use colored artifacts. I'm not sure how I feel about doing that. I look at Esper and it just makes sense that colored artifacts belong there. I look at Mirrodin and it makes sense that colored artifacts don't belong there. I'm not sure if colored artifacts really fit the feel or Sorok.

2) There also seems to be a lot of concern in making sure that we have enough sentient creatures types to represent each color evenly. My instincts also want to do that, but then I look at Shards of Alara. Bant had Angels, Aven, Humans, and Rhox (green poorly represented). Esper had Humans, Sphinxes, Vedalken, and Zombies (white poorly represented). Jund had Dragons, Goblins, Humans, and Viashino (black and green poorly represented). Naya had Elves, Humans, and Leonin (red poorly represented). Grixis was the only shard that had a sentient creature type to represent each color (Aven, Demons, Devils, Humans, Ogres, and Zombies). My point here is that we don't HAVE to have a ton of sentient races. Personally, I could live with just dwarves, goblins, and maybe one other race. In the past dwarves have bled into both white (Duergar Hedge-Mage ) and blue (Reveka, Wizard Savant ). Goblins have bled into both white (Boros Recruit ) and blue (Goblin Flectomancer ). I think exploring these expansions into white and blue would be interesting enough to not need additional sentient races. Otherwise, humans seem like a good default, but I don't really know what role they would play. That being said, the stories being placed behind the creature types being presented are really cool. I just don't want a desire to make sure every color has a creature type associated with it to cause a loss of focus.

3) I love the gemstone idea. It adds flavor to the reason why mining is so important to this society. Plus, they can easily be represented in many ways. They don't have to be artifacts. Look at the sigils of Bant. Sure, some where artifacts, but they were also shown through Auras, Instants, and on Creatures.

4) Some of the interactions with Clamp that have been suggested have been really cool. I really liked the Schismotivate idea. A lot of people have also suggested double strike for this shard, which I think works unexpectedly well with clamp. Usually cards with double strike are relatively more expensive because they are so good with buff spells. Clamp causes you to find a way to remove clamp as an alternative to paying more for the creature, while protecting the creature from wither and -X/-X spells in the meantime. I do think that the word "Clamp" could be replaced with a word that feels more like Sorok though. Maybe "Adamant?" Any other ideas?

I'd really like to hear everyone's thoughts on these points before the Design Team meets to make the final decisions.

@mistergreen527 I strongly agree with you points, especially about sentients. However, I find that colored artifacts, if not obviously part of Sorok, still seem fitting.

i agree with mistergreen527. Using just dwarves and goblins as the two main sentient races will probably work very well. We've also got to remember that this is more a shard vs shard set and not a shard vs itself set. We don't really need to worry so much about how the shard battles itself, more on how it will combat the other shards.

I still think we should hang on to Merfolk; they can be mining all the precious treasures under the ocean. And i see gnomes staying as the pesky theifs ruining everybody's day. Then i think we should have the dwarves and goblins focussing more on Red/White, and leave blue mostly for the merfolk and gnomes.

Then, we should have Griffins and Drakes to control the air. As has been generally agreed on, the dwarves are allied with the griffins while the goblins are (sort of) allied with the drakes.

This should make the colour wheel fairly balanced with enough flavour to allow for creativity.

As with mistergreen, i feel that coloured artifacts aren't too fitting to this shard. But i feel that we do need a few colourless artifacts to represent mining tools and equipment. And the Gemstone idea is definitely a good one. Works very well flavour-wise, story-wise and gameplay-wise.

And "Adamant" is a much better name than clamp. Or what about "resilient" or "stubborn"?

Obstinate works too

mistergreen527:

1) About the artifacts....your color wheel point is a good one. But I really do think artifacts are necessary, esp. Equipment. I have finally seen that the way to put Clamp to good use(in my opinion) is to have Equipment artifacts that give good abilities, but with a drawback of lowered P/T to the creature. If the creature has Clamp, it effectively does not have to pay the drawback cost, making it very useful.

So...my solution: use colored activation costs. Example: Pyrite Spellbomb It's not a red spell, but it takes the card slot of a red spell in Limited. Effectively, it is a red spell, though technically colorless. I think that would be fine. Since everyone seems to want this to be an Equipment shard(I can't imagine how we can get away from it at this point), I think that we could solve the color balance problem by having colorless artifact equipment spells with Equip costs requiring Colored Mana. White, Red, and Blue.

Coincidentally, as a minor point, this also sort of makes them tribal without calling them tribal. Dwarf and Goblin flavored equipment could require red, Merfolk blue, Kor white. Some could be a choice of 2 or 3 of the colors, etc.

2) Good point about not worrying about colors for the sentients. I was starting to think this, too. That being said, I think Kor, Merfolk, and Gnomes seem to be desired by a lot of people. The energy of the groupthink seems to be fairly strong is that. And I want to reiterate that I do not think that Kor being used in Zendikar is a legitimate reason not to use them here. Personally, I could more easily get excited about Kor and Dwarves as the main two, than I could about Goblins and Dwarves. Dwarves are the weaponsmiths who craft the gear, Kor are trained at using it. And vice-versa to some extent. Dwarves work at bases of mountains. Kor dwell higher up in the mountains. But I digress...

The group seems to be(with few exceptions) pulling for Dwarves, Goblins, Merfolk, Gnomes, and Kor as the sentients. Although Cats are a new idea, and that might generate interest. Merfolk and Gnomes could be represented a bit less, imo, with Dwarves being the central figures. And I think that these 5 sentients can be brought together nicely as equipment-bearers/makers. Gnomes doing manipulation. Changing the carrier of an Equipment, bouncing it back, etc. They can all fit nicely into one theme. And we don't have to have large numbers of each of the 5. Since non-sentients will probably be much less represented(except maybe griffins), I think there is room for five.

3) Yep. Nothing to add to that. Glad you like the gemstones.

4) I don't think adamant, stubborn, or resilient work. This is the only reason: We say "this creature HAS flying/trample/reach, etc." If you say "this creature has stubborn", it just sounds wonky. You know? I notice things like that. I don't know if anyone else does. All I can think of is "Lockdown".

5) I would like to add that it looks like the whole Clan concept just hasn't taken hold. It doesn't seem to be grabbing anybody. That happens. I say we should strongly consider scrapping it. I think it may be too complicated to coordinate a 3-color shard AND work in the clan theme. I think that if we were mono-red, it might be fine, but I just can't see it with this. No offense to whomever thought of it.

Clamp seems like a blue mechanic flavor-wise. Kind of like "I am a giant oyster and I will clamp you! Mwahahahaha!!!"

What about "Secure"? (This creature has Secure etc.) Sturdy? I don't know

secure and lockdown both seem like good keywords to me. And i agree with vic, the clan idea seems to have been scrapped. It would be too difficult in a three colour set.

And the main reason i think we shouldn't use Kor is because having too many sentient races to choose from could make it difficult to design a balanced and working shard. Remember, this is one-fifth of the entire set. And i don't know if the community will make a Nega-shard "Conflux" and "Reborn". If it was a given that there will be more expansions to this, then we might be able to get by using Kor. I'm not against them, i just think 50 cards (249 in the whole set, 5 shards, roughly 50 from each shard) won't be enough to really make use of the Kor. I love them, they fit in story-wise, but i don't think they can "fit"

From Battlecry1986 post 67: Viashino Native to Dominaria, Ravnica, and Jund, Viashino are lizard-folk descended from dragons. Despite their warrior codes, the Viashino are renowned metalsmiths and craftsfolk. Examples: Skyclaw Thrash, Viashino Weaponsmith & Viashino Slasher

Well....ain't that interesting? Don't know if there is room for Viashino, but it looks like my instincts were not far off. I didn't even know they were metalsmiths. Thanks for posting that.

leon_raymond: your numbers make an interesting point. There may not be room. But I think that we may not be a need to have more than a few Kor cards. If we look at the theme of the shard as a whole, get away from the shard vs. itself stuff(well said), and make a group of equipment-matters sentients, all working similarly, then the equipment is more the theme, not the races.

Still...50 cards. Not a lot. You may be right. But I hope not. The Kor fit so well, I thought. I would truly rather cut Goblins, and keep Kor.

Think of it...Kor and Dwarves with all of their crafted weapons and gear. Merfolk mages find underwater gemstones, whose energy creates additional boosts, Gnomes run manipulation.

People, in all seriousness, I know it diverges from how this began, but it was said that it was all subject to change...Do we want to consider cutting Goblins?

Leon's number crunching is making me think that we may not have room for a Gob vs. Dwarves theme(unfortunately-because I do like Grif/Dwarf vs. Gob/Drake), which would make Goblins become redundant, filling the same slot as Dwarves.

Am I nuts? It's entirely possible. What do people think about that?

Goblins v.s. dwarfs (or dwarves, the Tolkien spelling) seems like a good idea, but it may be too... RED. Red everywhere

You guys are right, not enough card room to flesh this shard out with more that a few off beat creature types I see Dwarf, Goblin, Merfolk filling the main creature types with a few Weird, Aven or Griffin (not both) & Kor-Samurai

We are not going to see blue and red together vary often and for good reason they are as naturally opposing as colors can be in this game. That being said I know they may not fit the plot (yet) but would love to see 3 or 4 card slots taken up by Weirds. I just love the idea of a mixed red/blue elementals. Gelectrode

I dont see the need for gnomes when we already have both goblins & dwarfs and Angels fit better in Red/White/Black. Kor was a good idea but Kor-samurai fit the flavor of this shard a little better.

I think that everyone is on the right track with the artifact equipment, due to all the mining but we make the same type of card in an enchantment thus gaining duel usage. Take post # 55 by mzy10511 if this artifact-equipment was an enchant creature you could use it to give an opponents creature a -4/-4 or on your own creature with clamp to gain the whenever attacks ability.

Clamp could be renamed to Fortified or Iron/steel (some type of metal or mining related name).

Most of all PLEASE give Weirds a chance!

Creatures

To me I think that people are going a bit too gangbusters on the creature choices. I think that it needs to be simple and concise. I later sets the shards will clash and much more conflict will come out. For this shard I think that goblins, dwarves, griffins, large birds, eggs (love this idea btw), and gnomes are good and enough personally. These all have the possibility for multiple subtypes. I think that adding other sentient races makes it cluttered and more difficult to write a solid story.

keywords/mechanics

Clamp is a given. Other than that, only evergreen can be used. I agree with flying, first strike, double strike, equipment, bounce, counter bounce (a la Remand ), legendary creatures, unblockability (a la Goblin Tunneler ), vigilance, wall destruction, and haste all make sense to me.

I like the suggestion of the gemstones. That sounds great. It really works I think.

@Battlecry1986:

Weirds are actually a primary creature type on Irindu, which is the other shard with both blue and red on it.

Can someone give me some background behind the Gnomes that have been concepted here. I'm just confused because they seem to be completely different from Gnomes previously printed (Bottle Gnomes , Clockwork Gnomes , Copper Gnomes , Ersatz Gnomes , Metrognome , Patchwork Gnomes , and Ticking Gnomes ). The only colored Gnome so far was Quarum Trench Gnomes , which is red.

I could see Gnomes fulfilling the place that someone had suggested Golems fulfilling (created servants), but if they're colorless, we run into the color-wheel problem again.

hey so, another update on stuff talked about and my thoughts

To mistergreen about gnomes. My assumption is that it would be a combination of leprechaun esc shenanigans. Also something similar to the dragonlance gnome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnome_(Dragonlance) Lastly especially if bounce is a thing i feel they would be the masters of that ability.

Creature types. And i think this may be the definitive list Goblins, Dwarves, Griffins, Drakes, Merfolk, gnomes, and random small creature types.

I dont think kor have a place...They are fresh in our minds as equipment class but classicly leonin are the equipment creature, and on top of that, we have gnomes and dwarves who will be equipment heavy themed. so i dont see it being necessary.

Since equipment is so pushed for, but the color situation is as is. I really really really like vic's idea of equipment having colored costs in the equip cost. and i think this is the way to go with it.

Though if you look at shards block, There was colored equipment that was not in esper. So its not unheard of or impossible to have them with out the theme.

AS keywords go Equipment, Double strike, Clamp, intimidate, flying, mountainwalk, and maybe blinking abilities seem to make sense. as would be bounce

1. i agree with vic on the colored equip cost idea but to keep sorok's colorless artifacts restricted to its colors we could give the non-equipment artifact colored activation cost and we could give some other artifacts with similar abilities to Sedraxis Alchemist which requires a certain color to trigger.
2. as for the sentient races i feel it is a "less is more" situation as far as flavor and focus goes. i think we should have at least goblins, dwarves, gnomes, and if we have room maybe squeeze in some merfolk.
3. if we decide to make gemstones artifact only maybe we could give them their own subtype mainly for flavor and this would let us play spells that cared about gemstones.

Vein Harvest 2,U instant search your library for a gemstone card and put it onto the battlefield.

also here is a gemstone Firemind Gemstone

1. as for the renaming of clamp how about resolve or solidarity

The gnomes being described sound like Faeries, Noggles, or Ouphes to me.

Faeries: http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Faeries

Noggles: http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Noggles

Ouphes: http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Ouphes

I think these three options would all be cool. A shard where all of the sentient races are short is really starting to intrigue me. Personally, I think that Noggles would be really cool. "Many Noggles have a cruel sense of humor and enjoy playing harmful tricks on others." To me, that sounds a lot like the Gnomes being described. Faeries could work well too. Leprechauns were oracled to have the Faeries subtype (Aisling Leprechaun ). But, I think think that Faeries are pretty much attached to Flying these days, which I'd rather have reserved for the Birds, Drakes, Griffins, or whatever else we have in the sky. Ouphes also fit flavor-wise, but are traditionally aligned with the two colors NOT found on Sorok.

I'd rather choose a creature type that already fits the concept than reinvent Gnomes. That's just my opinion.

The idea to have artifacts with colored activation costs seems like it could work. I would just want to make sure that the artifact is useless unless the player is using Sorok colors. For example, even though xeratheenigma's Firemind Gemstone idea has a colored cost for its activated ability, the first ability could be used by someone playing any shard's colors. As long as we prevent that from happening, I think it could work.

i'm liking the sound of noggles...

and solidarity sounds like a good keyword for clamp.

And do the gemstones really need to be purely Sorok? I think it could work with some gemstones having an ability which doesn't need Sorok mana to activate. I mean, there are bound to be wizards from Irindu who've taken Gemstones to study their magical properties. Okay, it wouldn't make any sense for a gemstone to be in an Ulgris deck but there's bound to be a bit of inter-shard cards.

@leon_raymond:

I'd be fine with an Irindu deck using an artifact with a blue-activated cost from Sorok. Jund decks used Blightning , which was from Grixis. Since they share colors, that's fine. However, I wouldn't want a black/green deck to be able to use an artifact from Sorok at all, especially since these cards will be filling in space as white, blue, or red spells. If the card can do anything without requiring white, blue, or red mana, then a black/green deck could use it.

A Sorok deck can't use a black spell from Ulgris at all, so an Ulgris deck shouldn't be able to use a white-aligned artifact from Sorok at all. I'm just trying to make sure we keep color balance.

@mistergreen527 It's important to remember that these cards have to work outside the set (and the shard), too -- finding a way to make gemstones work thematically in the set while also being playable outside of Sorok / Negashards will be tricky, but really interesting. They're Sorok, but they're also Magic cards.

@general discussion

Have some sort of trickster race, whether you call them gnomes, noggles, or anything else, seems both well-liked and really useful, design-wise, as a space for bounce and steal mechanics.

Gemstones seem pretty solid, too -- how about gemstones and equipment that work together -- a sort of representation of embedding gems into the equipment; mechanically, we could have gemstones that give extra bonuses to equipped creatures, or equipment that gets better depending on the number of gemstones you control.

energizing garnet

tap: target equipped creature gets +1/+1.

R, tap: target creature gains haste and +1/+1.

enervating topaz

tap: creatures blocked by target equipped creature don't untap during their next untap step.

1U, tap: tap a creature you control and a creature an opponent controls.

I would rather see Gnomes, Dwarves, Eggs / Birds and Merfolk than Dwarves vs. Goblins -- Dwarves and Goblins occupy very similar design spaces, and Goblins have been done and done and done again.

finally finally: resolve is a great name for the clamp ability -- it's flavorful, it feels like dwarves and miners in general; hard, resolute, unwavering -- and it will look good in text -- 'this creature has resolve'.

@mistergreen527 i understand your point regarding the gemstones. well i'm not too sure how we can get around that, but i'm sure the community is bursting with ideas for gemstones.

@landot i understand why you don't want to use goblins. But somebody making a Sorok deck will likely end up using Dwarves and Goblins anyway because they are very similar in game terms, yet they are vastly different in terms of flavour which makes for great story lines.

I still think griffins should be the way to go for an aerial race. And of course we need a trickster race (noggles would be epic).

Merfolk are debatable. I'd love to use them but, as with Kor, we might not be able to "fit" them into our 50 cards with everything else. I still vote we use them, they work so well game-wise and story-wise, but i will understand if others feel we can't use them.

And resolve is an excellent keyword

I'm loving the keyword "resolve" and having noggles replace gnomes. In response to artifact vs color-wheel concerns, why not make some artifacts with (wait for it) colored mana costs! It would help solve the perceived color problems, and has seemed to have been underutilized.

we had already briefly discussed using coloured artifacts. To be honest, I'm not completely against it. I wouldn't mind seeing a red equipment spell. But i don't think it's the best way to go. Coloured artifacts were for esper. They were cool, and they are cool, but i'm not sure they belong on Sorok. Although, that's not to say we can't. I'm one way or the other, i don't overly mind.

I take it there will be very little vegetation? If so, I guess there will have to be fish for food. And spear-men! And ships, etc. Pirates were mentioned and it might actually work

I feel the keyword needs to make sense. Resolve sounds funny. Compound? Solidity? Thick-skin? Arrogance?

noggles seem like a good fit for the trickster race, though i like gnomes because in other fantasy related media gnomes have been tricksters but also intelligent and tech savvy creating many different magical and nonmagical devices.

@mistergreen527: i agree that the artifacts should be useless unless that player is playing sorok colors. also i revised firemind gemstone to make it useless for non-sorok players maybe firemind-gemstone-2.0 fits the bill for what you expect for sorok artifacts at least restriction wise

as for the topic of colored artifacts it may solve the color problems that we would ultimately face with sorok, but i think if it doesnt fit the shard flavor wise then it shouldnt be included though to be honest i could see gemstones being colored artifacts but overall i dont think colored artifacts really fit the flavor of sorok unless someone can agrue why colored artifacts fit sorok flavor wise because as it stands i dont think it fits sorok's flavor and we shouldn't do something just because it makes the set easier to build but because it fits but thats my opinion

I love where everyone is taking the gemstone stuff.

landot: Thank you! I was the one who first suggested them, but you hit the nail on the head with Energizing Garnet and Enervating Topaz. That was exactly the kind of this I was thinking of, except that I thought we might invent our own fictitious gem types. But either way.

And I thought the gemstone/equipment thing you talked about, as well as the "number of gemstones" idea took the concept to a new level. Terrific ideas! So glad someone did that. And the idea of a gemstone subtype by xeratheenigma was also great.

You know, it's starting sound like Sorok could become the "Gemstone Shard". Esper was artifact matters. This could be gemstone matters.

And yes, that could stretch outside of artifact spells. (nod to mistergreen527)Rough, spur-of-the-moment examples:

Instant

Cost: RW?

Target creature gains "destroy all creatures blocked by this creature" until end of turn.

"Dwarves will not easily trade away Karthracite . Just holding one small piece of the powerful stone in the palm of one's hand will make the body as solid as the mountains themselves."

(also could say it gives -0/-2 to the creature, and hope that the dude has clamp.)

Touch of Karthracite

Same thing, different cost:

Cost: 3W plus the text "if you control one or more gemstones, you may play this spell for 3 less mana."

Pull of Vintamite

Enchantment-Gemstone

Cost(something blue/white?)

All creatures you control can block an additional creature for each gemstone you control each turn. (How about that xeratheenigma?)

"The goblins relished vintimite for it's ability to draw the fish from the rivers right into their hands. Little did they know what a larger chunk of it would draw..."

It does seem logical to the landscape that flyers would be prevalent. Maybe there can be some relationship with griffin/eggs/gemstones. Don't know what.

In other matters...Something that we have not done is decided what a Sorok deck is trying to do, as in how does it win? Perhaps that comes up post-brainstorming. But before we get to creating cards, I think we had better do that.

Irindu draws cards and puts more creatures on the board than it's opponent.

Ulgris makes many tokens and uses wither and deathtouch to suck the life out of larger opposing creatures.

What does a Sorok deck want to do? Air supremacy, powerful equipment abilities, and now gemstone synergy have all been possibilities. We should just get it clear at some point, that's all. I don't want to get into the card creation "contests" until I have a fairly clear sense of that.

I also think that Land Control deserves strong consideration. It could be Sorok's version of control. Fits the flavor. Miners blow things up.

I'm thinking: Red destroys land, white taps it down, blue changes it's color. All land control stuff.

I propose that Sorok is not a burn shard, possibly light on other forms of control, too. Instead, it's big on land control.

Just an idea.

red- power or speed boosts

white- protection or removal

blue- various forms of manipulation

something like that. One tri-colored gemstone could be the "rot liege" of this set.

just a thought that I am throwing out there as a nonkyword mechanic. I totally get the complications color-wise of making this an artifact shard, so...

how about having creatures, like dwarfs and goblins that create equipment tokens. Not sure that it is a good idea, but it puts a new twist on artificers or becomes its own new subtype.

The goblins could make equipment with odd drawbacks and the dwarfs can create equipment that focuses on granting abilities other than p/t bonuses due to clamp.

As far as vic's worry about win condition. I would say that the win condition looks like weenie beats with some evasion (flying etc) and light control (bounce, tapping down, counter bounce, pingers etc). Basically combat shennanigans.

I do think that land destruction should be considered, but it is really a R/B ability for years and white for land sweep. That has the RWB shard written all over it.

Steadfast I like!!! Something that has guts. "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!!!!"

Maybe this for the tricolor?

~insert name here~ 4RUW

Legendary artifact

RUW, sacrifice ~cardname~: Creatures you control get +2/-1, are unblockable and gain "whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, tap target permanent that player controls. It doesn't untap during it's controller's untap step" until end of turn.

I do see this shard as having land control. It doesn't fit perfectly colour-wise, but it fits flavour-wise with Miners digging out the opponent's lands. We used Wither on Ulgris, which was previously a mostly Black/Red mechanic. And Ulgris's main colour is Green. Although we argued that Infect was a green/black ability, i still think that we deserve that slight Colour-Mechanic freedom for all shards.

I like "steadfast", but it may have to be worded like indestructibility and unblockability, rather than as a 'noun' keyword. "This creature is steadfast", or "This creature has steadfast". "Target creature becomes steadfast until end of turn" or "Target creature gains steadfast until end of turn". I think the second format sounds better but the first makes more sense.

I like Jarrod_0067's idea of a legendary gemstone. But i feel that specific concept card is not powerful enough. That's 10 mana for what closely resembles the power of an Ultimatum. I like the idea of legendary gemstones, just make them more powerful lol. And we may be able to get away with having colourless casting costs and coloured activation costs.

I like what squire1 said. The only difficulty would be keeping them balanced. Either the equipments would have to cost quite a bit or maybe you sacrifice the creature to get them. Another thought is a "enters the battlefield" effect.

squire1 's idea is a great idea but as zerotimestatechamp said there would need to be a drawback of some sort whether it be a high activation cost or a sacrifice of permanents besides artifacts i could see saccing a land as an option other than saccing a creature

@vic: thats definitely along the lines of what i was thinking for cards that make gemstones matter and you gave it a diiferent spin which is good.

I like Jarrod's legendary gemstone, too, but I also thought it should have a lower cost. RWU2 maybe. It makes an interesting situation for whether you want clamp turned on or off when you use that.

squire1 - I don't know that you need to sac the creature. The creature will have at least a mid-level mana cost. Then they have to make the equipment token, presumably using a mana cost(btw, I think that TOTALLY works. It' s a terrific idea, actually. Dwarfs MAKE stuff, right?), then you have to pay the equip cost. That's plenty. I say no sac. Let the creature keep on building equipment. If the opponent can't remove him, he stays.

I'm also thinking more and more that Goblins are not necessary, but we could use them as a minor theme IF we have room.

Right now I think it's Dwarfs(primary), noggles, griffins, and merfolk. Maybe squeeze in birds and/or goblins.

Early on I wanted Drakes, but that was only because I wanted a griffin vs. drake theme. If we don't have that, then I don't see a reason for drakes.

But yeah, somehow or another I really think we need to have equipment, simply because w/o it, I, for one, don't know what the bloody hell we're supposed to do with the clamp(or whatever) mechanic.

I thought about making cards that make equipment, also, but the problem I ran into is that the cards will be super-wordy, and equipment tokens will clutter up the board -- I am afraid it will just get confusing for players; equipment tokens and pump counters will get confused with each other, as will unattached equipment and token creatures -- it's a lot of stuff floating around the board.

I think it's doable, but we would need to approach it very carefully.

We could do it with cards that fetch artifacts and equipment from the library, maybe?

Also, I can't wait for a Dwarven Planeswalker.

Here's a storyline idea:

(Still using the word "clamp" for the moment, until we figure out what it will be.)

Sorok is a world(shard of a world) in which the power of gems and minerals is abundant. All life and physical features are affected by them. These gemstones are so powerful that those who are not accustomed to handling them, have greater difficulty in doing so. The native dwarfs, who mine and trade them on a regular basis have developed a sort of "immunity" to the weakening effects. Merfolk have a similar ability to handle the water-born minerals without being weakened by them. The airborn species that is prevalent here are the griffin. (Somehow they can handle it, too. Haven't worked out why that would be. Maybe just from living here, maybe help from dwarfs.)

There is one pesky species that lives here that does suffer the weakening effects if they try to handle the gems. These are called noggles. Noggles do not mine or work in harmony with the gemstones. They are tricksters and theives. Therefore they have not tuned their energy to be in harmony with the gems of Sorok, as the dwarfs, merfolk, and griffin have done.

The dwarfs are builders, and they make special equipment out of the very gem material itself(so not metallic equipment, like we've seen before). The gems used in equipment building:

A) are dense and heavy

B) jagged and sharp

C) emanate powerful energy that saps one's physical strength.

(All possible reasons why the equipment would lower P/T.)

Dwarfs:

A) are thick are strong

B) have tough, thick, calloused skin

C) as natives and gem handlers, are energetically in-tune with the gems, which nullifies the weakening effects.

(reasons why creatures with clamp would not have lowered P/T.)

landot: You may be right about the wordiness factor. But I don't think equip tokens would clutter the board. Figure your average game is 7 turns or so. I don't think we would make lots of tokens, like Ulgris creature tokens. I think it would be quality, not quantity. The equipment we do have does REALLY good things. So good that they also require lowered P/T. (unless you have clamp). I don't see having a lot of them. And as far as equipment cards themselves, I'm thinking 5 or 6 different ones that are very useful is plenty. 2 common, 2 unc, 2 rare maybe. Up to 4 copies of each, so no problem. The fetch idea works, too.

Personally, I say go ahead and make the damn artifact cards, and however it has to work with the color wheel(colored artifacts/colored equip costs/colored activation costs, whatever), we do it. If it's what is needed here- and I do think that a few good equipment with lowered P/T are needed, because of Clamp- then we make it happen.

I just don't want to get stuck with having a useless mechanic(unless you just happen to face a wither deck or something). And I do think that that is a real problem, because just hoping that your opponent is running spells that lower your P/T is not good enough, imo. I think that that would be more unfortunate than the color-wheel issue. The color thing we can tinker with.

Btw, if there is a follow-up set, I really like the idea of a tribe of nomadic Kor arriving on the scene. That could get interesting. And I was thinking that they could train/breed hawks.

Alternately, we could have hawks now(white only has griffin so far), and maybe they work in harmony with merfolk or dwarfs. But dwarfs probably work with griffin.

Also maybe Goblins show up later, instead of now. Maybe the storyline is that Goblins were here, but got the dwarfs were more skilled, and in harmony with the gems/minerals, and pushed the Goblins to the outlying areas. While in the hills of the outskirsts, they turned to shamanism, and started working with the drakes there. Let's say Griffin and drakes are natural enemies...thus making a possibility of Goblins mounting a comeback with help from the drakes.

I want to say again, I REALLY like the idea of a dwarf who makes equipment tokens. Great for story, game play, and it's never been done. Might only need one or two such creatures. One rare, one unc maybe. Maybe a legend. Totally worth it.

As I've stated before in this process, I'm a big reader and follower of Mark Rosewater. Here's what hes had to say in response to one of the finalists of the Great Designer Search 2 creating an equipment token:

"While the rules can support counter token Equipment, I'm not sure we want to have it in the game. Equipment comes with a lot of baggage and it worries me to have something with so much information without a card for people to refer to.

"Let's assume we want to do token counter Equipment. I respect that you were trying to do the most basic version but you have to be careful not to align too closely with a mechanic we already support especially if your set has +1/+1 counters in it. This glass counter grants +1/+1 but goes away when the creature dies, but this glass bead grants +1/+1 and stays on the battlefield when the creature dies."

This mirrors our set pretty well. We have cards with wither giving -1/-1 counters, then we want to have equipment tokens that give -X/-X plus as ability. It's just too hard to differentiate between the two during game play.

I think the best way to go is to either have colored equipment or to have equipment with colored equip costs. I personally prefer the colorless equipment with colored equip costs idea.

Here's an idea: Spawnsire of Ulamog . We could have artificers whose abilities allow you to pull equipment or artifacts from your sideboard and put them into play.

Like my new friend:

Harlek, Relicsmith of Dur

We need to figure out white's role in this shard, also -- will they get artifact board-wipers? I could totally see a white Shatterstorm here.

hrm. we should probably reprint Disarm ?

I've been thinking more and more about how to do gemstones well. Here are a couple of mocked up cards:

Vintamite Shard

Vintamite Slab

Gem of Forewarning

Tectonic Gem

Gem of Respite

with these cards, the gems themselves are artifacts with colored activation costs that provide some small benefit. They can also be sacrificed to increase the power of spells, or you can sacrifice them by themselves for a slightly greater benefit.

They're sort of a mix between splice and spellbombs.

i agree that having equipment tokens will be too confusing during gameplay.

I also agree to leaving goblins out and bringing them in (along with Kor and drakes) in a future set.

I love vic's explanation for Clamp

landot, your cards are awesome. I love the idea of having a spawnsire of artifacts. And a white Shatterstorm would we wicked.

Well everyone, I know that the deadline for this has arrived.

Just wanted to say I really enjoyed this. There are some good creative minds here, and I didn't get the sense that anyone had any big egos or anything. Everyone just wants to make this set be the best that it can be, and that's great.

It was fun to see this thing evolve in the group-think machine. In the course of just a few days, a lot happened. Very interesting, I thought.

Too many to look up and name individually, but I enjoyed a lot of people's posts and ideas.

And just because I can't resist getting this off of my mind: I think that if we go with Noggles(and I think it's a great idea), I think that that is further reason to leave goblins out. Noggles would be the turd wad(Dare I say jackass?) creature of the group. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Good luck with figuring all of this out, Design Team. Glad you guys are doing this. Thanks a lot!

well spoken vic