Squire's Interim Challenge!
Features
squire1
15 February 2010
1526 views
Yeago's note: he renamed himself to squire1
15 February 2010
1526 views
Yeago's note: he renamed himself to squire1
Today's challenge comes to you from squire1 . He writes:
Time for another interim challenge everyone!
The basics of this challenge are that your deck must focus on alternate win conditions. Your opponent does not lose the game from his/her life total reaching 0 or below, so you need to win by other means. That is it, lets take a look at restrictions. As usual only four of any one card may be used in a deck unless otherwise indicated (i.e., Relentless Rats). All decks must be legacy legal; however, The Cheese Stands Alone and Now I Know My ABC's will be legal even though they are from unsets. Otherwise Check for legality here: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=judge/resources/sfrlegacy
There is a maximum submission amount. Only three decks will be accepted from each participant, with and additional caveat. Each of the 3 submissions a participant makes must focus on a different win condition.
All decks will be graded according to my 3 Cs: Competence, Cohesion, and Creativity. Ten points are possible for each category.
Competence (10 points)
A competent deck is one that not only functions but wins. All deck will be tested against each other in a round robin tournament will be the first testing stage. All decks with then play in a single elimination paired against some archetypal decks in extended. Remember your opponent cant lose through damage; however in this second test you can, so set you defenses accordingly. Sideboards will not be considered in play unless they are for fetch as cards in the outside the game zone.
Cohesion (10 points) Ten easy points here. These points are for using legacy legal cards only and for your deck focusing on an alternate win condition.
Creativity (10 points) This is the tough one. There are a lot of alternate win conditions, but some are contrived. I have been playing for a while, so the standard turbo-mill deck that everyone else has does not capture my fascination. This is not to say that a mill deck is not viable, just make it new and intruiging, try using a Millstone. Not really but you should get the idea. You should know what creativity means, embody that. I will give a hint of things that excite me. If anyone develops a dead lock deck to force a draw, and it works consistently, I will be impressed.
So have fun deckbuilding everyone. I hope that you have fun and let the creative juices flow. You have until midnight (EST) February 26th to complete this challenge.
Submissions as normal should be posted as links in the comment thread
February 15, 2010 2:49 p.m.
What is with the whole you can use un-set cards. That is just ridiculous. It's the unchallenge all over again.
February 15, 2010 5:15 p.m.
there are specific cards of the un-sets that I wanted included as they give opportunities for interesting alt win conditions
February 15, 2010 5:35 p.m.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amendment 1
Unsets are not going to be part of the challenege; however, The Cheese Stands Alone and card:Now I Know My ABC's will be allowed. This amendment has been sent to KC, but he is a busy man and it may not be amended in the main text of the challenege, so please keep this in mind
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 15, 2010 6:48 p.m.
Good! I'm glad we can use The Cheese Stands Alone ! This is one of my favourite cards of all time (OF ALL TIME).
I present to you momo's-cheese.
February 15, 2010 7:27 p.m.
The Cheese Stands Alone is a little better because it does not have to wait till your next upkeep for the effect
February 15, 2010 7:34 p.m.
Award for this challenge should be either Squiremaster or Lord Squire. I may or may not be a Rover.
February 15, 2010 7:43 p.m.
I did. it used to be just squire but that links you to Squire
February 15, 2010 8:12 p.m.
Haha thanks, it all clicked after I submitted the comment. I thought yeago did at first because it said "Yeago's note" and I thought "D: but we already have a Squire?"
February 15, 2010 8:14 p.m.
Here is my deck entry deck:barren-spite. It runs smoothly so check it out if you want to be blown away.
February 15, 2010 8:33 p.m.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/helix-mana-pinnacle/
Gogogogogogo!
February 15, 2010 9:09 p.m.
I swear I didn't get this idea from l0ki....Insta-Win
February 15, 2010 9:36 p.m.
Here's my entry
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-cheese-1/
February 15, 2010 9:58 p.m.
is Vampiric Tutor or Cruel Tutor legal for my deck?
February 15, 2010 11:51 p.m.
first attempt http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/hunt-for-the-unlimited-combo/
February 16, 2010 5:19 a.m.
second attempt http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/60-turn-mill/
February 16, 2010 5:26 a.m.
first (ever) attempt
http://www.tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lots-of-life/
February 16, 2010 8:17 a.m.
great decks so far, but there are quite a few win conditions that have barely been touched and no one has even tried a hard lock yet.
February 16, 2010 6:09 p.m.
First challenge entry from me; clap-your-hands-say-yeah.
February 16, 2010 6:15 p.m.
This is my second entry:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/not-so-wimpy/
February 16, 2010 7:09 p.m.
Second challenge entry; Gravestorm . (This deck uses an instant combination Exile; if you consider it to be the same win condition as the exile-mill from Clap, just tell me and I'll drop it and do a different win con).
February 16, 2010 7:21 p.m.
Oooh, I've re-read the opening post now and I understand it. ONLY those two cards from the Unsets are allowed, not just any cards, or any two. In that case, just scratch clap-your-hands-say-yeah entirely; Gravestorm will be my only entry.
February 16, 2010 7:24 p.m.
Here is my second entry mayael's-alt-win. And the best part is it is standard legal!!!
February 16, 2010 7:28 p.m.
mistergreen527 says... #34
@Zanven :
You should probably put the URL because Gravestorm links to the card.
February 16, 2010 7:35 p.m.
squirel-gift. This is not my third entry merely something to be put up for appreciation. I repeat it is not an entry.
February 16, 2010 8:27 p.m.
February 16, 2010 8:36 p.m.
what sets are legal in legacy, the link doesn't say...
February 16, 2010 11:06 p.m.
Iwatchedherdie says... #41
May sound garbage but has several infinite mana combos and just does obnoxious and fun stuff.
Steal your board? Woo. xD
February 16, 2010 11:26 p.m.
KrazyCaley says... #43
jlwalsh- If it's a magic card, it's legal in Legacy. Unless it's one of these: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=judge/resources/sfrlegacy
February 17, 2010 12:36 a.m.
KrazyCaley says... #46
While we're on the topic of altwins, I should note that in the recent dev chat, Mark Rosewater told us that he originally had an idea for a card to be included in Worldwake that would have been a quest.
It would have read something like this:
"Whenever you (essentially finish any other quest), put a quest counter on cardname. Remove x counters from cardname and sac it- you win."
But the others told him that would be too complicated and silly. And thus a great loss to Magic was sustained.
February 17, 2010 4:01 a.m.
"Whenever you sacrifice an enchantment" maybe? Would be an interesting card to see. The number of counters you need to resolve it would have to be pretty high though. Or possibly "Whenever you sacrifice an enchantment, if there is no enchantment in your graveyard of the same name" to prevent spamming Khalni Heart Expedition or something else easy to complete
February 17, 2010 4:45 a.m.
mistergreen527 says... #48
I was thinking along the lines of:
"Whenever an ability is activated by removing one or more quest counters from an enchantment you control, you may put a quest counter on The Ultimate Quest.
Remove ten quest counters from The Ultimate Quest and sacrifice it: You win the game."
February 17, 2010 4:50 a.m.
hmmm that refines it to quests, definitely. Sounds like a fair card, actually.
You know what, we should probably have conversations like this in a separate article or something, rather than spamming the challenge area....
February 17, 2010 5:11 a.m.
No I think it's fine I mean it gives people like me something to read at 3:00 AM. I replied to KC's WWK article with the resounding input of 'Verdant Catacombs'.
February 17, 2010 5:20 a.m.
KrazyCaley says... #51
See, the problem I'm having with this metaquest card is I can't think of a way to make it work, because some quests have passive effects and don't need to be sac'd or activted, like Quest for the Goblin Lord. Maybe they ditched it because they couldn't come up with a way to do it without some weird "Finish quest" mechanic.
And I shall continue to comment randomly here until such time as TappedOut gets forums. I would totally pay $10 for forums. Hint, hint, yeaGO!.
-C
February 17, 2010 6:11 a.m.
this isn't an entry, merely a question. would lich's-reversing-angel count as an alternate win since it doesn't actually damage your opponents, just gives them a new life total?
February 17, 2010 7:31 a.m.
Ahhh that would explain why there was initial talks (before Zendikar and i guess afterwards as well) of the Quests becoming a specific Enchantment sub-category as well as why they didnt.
But then again the rare quests from Zendi wont count for anything (Bloodchief ascension, pyromancers ascension, Beastmasters ascension, Luminarch Ascension, Archmage Ascension)
Then you have the string of ones from WWK which also wouldnt work ( Quest for renewal, Quest for the Goblin lord, Quest for the Nihil Stone, Quest for ula's temple)
so it would have had to have been a Zendi rare/mythic most likely
February 17, 2010 7:52 a.m.
@reasondow it is a very creative deck, I really like it, unfortunately the rules do say that your opponent does not lose if his or her life total is at or below 0
February 17, 2010 8:04 a.m.
so they do... oh well, I'll just have to try something else :)
February 17, 2010 9:25 a.m.
Iwatchedherdie says... #56
Helix winacle Fixed the legacy banned problem. xD
February 17, 2010 11 a.m.
my very first challenge be nice... recently back in to magic so i missed everything between visions and alara... so most stuff is type 2 except a counterspell and some faster land....
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ally-alt-win/
February 17, 2010 3:11 p.m.
mistergreen527 says... #58
Okay, here's another idea:
The Ultimate Quest W,U,B,R,G
Enchantment
Whenever a quest counter is put on another enchantment you control, you may put a quest counter on The Ultimate Quest.
During your upkeep, if The Ultimate Quest has thirty or more quest counters on it, you win the game.
February 17, 2010 3:42 p.m.
mistergreen527 says... #59
Actually, it should probably be a Legendary Enchantment to avoid an infinite look if two are on the table.
February 17, 2010 3:43 p.m.
Making it cost WUBRG would make it unplayable.
I know it's hard to cost a massive win-con Quest.
But I'd make it a Legendary Artifact Enchantment. Just to toss in more Subtypes.
Make it cost the same as Reaper King . That gives you options on how to pay.
The mechanics of it seem sound though. Man, why does Doubling Season have to cost soo much? D:
February 17, 2010 6:02 p.m.
mistergreen527 says... #61
Woah, woah, woah! "Artifact Enchantment?"
mind blown
February 17, 2010 6:09 p.m.
I disagree KC, I don't think we need a forum~ I think it'll take away from the basic goal that I perceived the site to have - creating magic decks and having a place to evaluate what you made. I think it's fine that we have a bit of a community going but I think a forum would largely take away from most deck commenting and have people isolate themselves to forums to rack up some sort of popularity and etc!~ If you want a forum try MTGSalvation?
I think we should also keep this relevant to Squire's challenge. :3~*
February 17, 2010 6:15 p.m.
My third and final deck entry, probably my favorite one so far XD - Happy Birthday!
February 17, 2010 9:48 p.m.
This will be my third entry:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/close-to-untouchable/
February 18, 2010 7:17 a.m.
Alright, this is kinda thrown together but whatever... The Scary Door
February 18, 2010 8 p.m.
I have discovered that I'm not a big fan of most alt-win cards. So, my first entry is just for a good laugh. I mean, c'mon, who honestly thinks a card:Now I Know My ABC's deck will do well?
Here's the deck. I am unlikely to make any changes, as just thinking about counting up my letters pains me in the head ...
abcde-...-yay!
February 19, 2010 2:21 p.m.
Well might as well Put in the second one
http://www.tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mill-mill-mill/
February 20, 2010 6:16 a.m.
If possible I would like to withdraw my poisonous-pandemonium deck and put in my howling-mine-mill and then squirel-gift as my second and third entries. If I am unable to then kindly disregard this letter.
February 21, 2010 4:28 a.m.
alright everyone. We are coming up on the last week remember by friday the 26th
February 21, 2010 9 a.m.
this is my first entry to any challenge on here... I'm relatively new to playing magic as I've only been keen on it for a few months now. I've been building decks for almost the same amount of time as I built a deck to teach myself how to play.
Anyway, here is my entry: Count This!
any comments/improvements welcome.
February 21, 2010 2:36 p.m.
Quick check on rulings: does paying life count as life loss? If it does I will have to scrap my next submission.
February 21, 2010 9:18 p.m.
Bugger. I don't think I can Channel myself below 0 life anyway...
February 21, 2010 9:46 p.m.
No. Probably because Channel is banned and because of the way it is errated
February 21, 2010 9:48 p.m.
February 22, 2010 10:17 a.m.
Entry 2: Epic Fungus
a slightly modified version of my Fungus Striker deck for this challenge
February 22, 2010 11:50 a.m.
Well, here goes my first entry with deck:nevereverlasting.
February 22, 2010 4:22 p.m.
heres my first entry ever it uses my landfall combo Quiller's Landfall Helix
February 22, 2010 8:29 p.m.
Everyone please pay attention to this. KC originally said that the deadline was the 24th. It now say the 26th, which is a mistype on mypart. The dealine is the 24th. I will need all that time to grade these as roundrobin was the worst idea I ever had. I have like 2000 matchups at this point
February 23, 2010 7:58 a.m.
I guess I had best post my last 2 then. Maelstrom Coalition and Mortal Cycle
February 23, 2010 1:36 p.m.
Life Burst FOR THE WIN!
Donating to good causes for a better future
Is my submission for this challenge.
Remember, the boo boo's from the lands are a good thing!
February 23, 2010 1:51 p.m.
mistergreen527 says... #101
Okay, well, I was going to exclude myself from challenges, but I really like alternate wins. Plus, so far, no one has given Chance Encounter any representation. So, here's my submission: High Risk, High Reward
February 23, 2010 3:57 p.m.
Lol. Poor Squirrel didn't you learn from the Darkness Interim challenge you can't do round robin (unless you can multi-match and, trust me, you can't). Have fun. I would offer my services but as I am currently a competitor I can't. Unfortunatley for you, you said that you would be playing a round robin and no doubt I am not the only person who factored that into their deck (along with the following extended round). Keep us posted on what you plan to do. Btw if you do a proper count you have roughly 50 ish decks (I count 53) and if you plan to do a round robin you'll be playing (roughly) 4,270,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0 matches. So best of 3?
February 23, 2010 6:59 p.m.
My apologies I screwed up on the estimate. I sat down with a pen and paper and got:
427,488,328,406,002,556,429,801,375,338,939,964,969,034,3788,836,681,372,467,200,000,000
:P does it look more threatening as just 0's or as actual numbers?
February 23, 2010 7:15 p.m.
Again with a typo. The extra eight part way through was from me moving the digits back two places, so it should only read ...378,836... not ...3788,836...
February 23, 2010 7:19 p.m.
yeah in light of that I have to ask. How many people will be ticked if I just do a double elimination and then test against some regular legacy deck. At this point it is that or we can have the results in about 3 years or so.
Seriously, input wanted. I hope that everyone is ok with that
February 23, 2010 8 p.m.
Facing the numbers, do you really have any other choice? :P besides its your challenge: run it how you will
February 23, 2010 8:30 p.m.
Darkness1835 says... #110
DONT DO ROUND ROBIN! i almost thought about stopping magic playing after what i did. too much playing...
honestly, i would rather get the results ASAP, even if they turn out a little screwed. double elimination sounds the best; you dont even need to test them against regular legacy. whoever survives until the end wins. then of course test the ties.
February 23, 2010 8:43 p.m.
ok double elimination I did say that i would test them against other decks and people bult based on that so I will do both, but round robin is out.
Note to self: listen to Darkness1835 when he said that testing round robin sucked
February 23, 2010 10:06 p.m.
:p. That is just funny.
I do think that some common sense should be applied in your double elimination in regard to just plain bad match ups. I mean if this were a standard comp, using elimination and every Jund deck played either White Weenie, Spreading Seas or Turbo Fog in the first round then that would be blatantly unfair (although just).
February 23, 2010 10:21 p.m.
why not just play them all in Swiss rounds? That way it's random...
February 24, 2010 7:27 a.m.
swiss is not always random. first spots are random or seeded and then subsequent rounds are matchups based on cumulative points earned to that point
February 24, 2010 8:35 a.m.
Namemattersnot says... #118
I just counted 61 decks. Do what you have to, to not take an eternity. I'm not sure what the best way to do this would be, best of luck.
February 24, 2010 4:14 p.m.
@squire1: It's better than a RR, or playing them against a random Legacy deck.
February 24, 2010 5:31 p.m.
@ Namemattersnot some decks were posted twice or even thrice and some were withdrawn.
February 24, 2010 6:04 p.m.
KrazyCaley says... #121
@squire1 Some advice. Systematic testing of all decks against each other, even if limited to a tournament or swiss format, is not productive. It doesn't give you much information and is time consuming.
To the extent that I feel I need to play a deck to figure out its efficacy (which is the case for most of the higher-end submissions), I will play it against simple, straightfoward archetype decks that I have constructed for the purpose. If I have a close call between two decks, I will run them against each other. If I don't break the tie that way by changing my score, I grab a friend, instruct him on how both decks work (to make things fair, since I know how both decks work), and have a formal playoff.
Keep in mind that there are always decks, such as mine in this challenge, that are easily scored when it comes to effectiveness; you can tell they're not that good just by looking at 'em.
-C
February 24, 2010 6:27 p.m.
Unfortunately he did say that we would be played off against each other hence why I included Island Sanctuary (Poison decks) and card:Gaea's Blessing (Mill decks) in howling-mine-mill and this would hence change the deck that I submitted were the judging to change. I would hazard a guess I was not the only one that added in defenses against alternate wins and would be most disappointed were that to become a dead card in their deck for two-thirds of the alleged judging (effectiveness and the impossible RR).
A deck is relative to it's meta and hence changing the meta would change the deck however in this scenario no option to change the deck is given. It's like throwing Jund up against Hexmage Depths.
February 24, 2010 7:27 p.m.
well heres my second one last minute Quiller's Coalition Victory
February 24, 2010 7:48 p.m.
i built one that causes a tie for my third one I Like To Cause Draws
February 24, 2010 8:42 p.m.
@TAMA I am testing the decks against each other and archetypes as said in the original post. The only change is that they are not tested in RR. It is going to be double elimination for the meta, then against archetypes.
@KrazyCaley thank you for the advise, and I agree with you at this point. That would have been the way to do it. However, I feel that since I said I would, then I should. Lesson learned on my part. If I ever get to do a challenge again, that will change
February 24, 2010 8:52 p.m.
KrazyCaley says... #127
@squire1 No worries; you're at least being much more exhaustive than I. When you're done, just e-mail me the results and I'll post 'em.
-C
February 25, 2010 4:05 p.m.
Three cheers for squi... that doesn't work nearly as well as it does in person. Thanks for sticking with it Squirrel. Wish you many happy hours of sleep thereafter.
February 25, 2010 4:17 p.m.
alright everyone, thanks for participating. Testing will happen between tomorrow and Saturday. Results should be up sunday
February 25, 2010 6:36 p.m.
ok the double elimination is finished, next is the testing against other decks
February 27, 2010 7:30 p.m.
ok testing is finally done, results will be written tomorrow and posted at KC's convenience.
February 27, 2010 10:28 p.m.
It's funny how people don't appreciate free entertainment.
March 1, 2010 8:38 a.m.
the results have been sent yesterday people, be calm and patient. KC is a busy man and I am sure that he will have them up soon.
KrazyCaley says... #1
Deadline for this one will be the end of Feb. 24.
February 15, 2010 2:23 p.m.