I think the kind of Jund deck you're running ought to factor in powerfully to whether you run a walker. The only one that really makes sense for Jund is Garruk, as Jund runs light and fast on mana, and wins by getting things down faster than an opponent can answer them. Garruk's +1 and -1 both help immensely. But Garruk is STILL bad for most Jund decks because he clogs up the critical four-spot mana curve- four mana is a big place for Jund, containing Bloodbraid Elf, if nothing else. Turn 4 is also where Jund usually gets to cast its 3-cost multicolored ouchies, like Sprouting Thrinax and Blightning . Jund has better options across the board than Garruk Wildspeaker , I think. Planeswalkers just don't make sense for such a fast deck.

here's the thing about Liliana Vess - if you've got the resources to keep her around, you can repeatedly tutor, which can be HUGE. keeping her around can be an issue, true, but like Jace Beleren , if you're locked into a mid-to-late game stalemate, she can shake things up quite a bit.

Garruk Wildspeaker 's untap ability can definitely be an asset if you need the mana, especially if he's untapping a multi-land - and his 'limit break' Overrun doesn't come as a surprise to your opponent, but it does put some pressure on them.

good overview. this is important stuff to consider. first article, right? good first article!

The first three you listed are awful.

Where is the Ajani Vengeant ? Where on earth is Elspeth, Knight-Errant ?

I don't know if you know this, but Liliana Vess 's secondary ability of tutoring reacts REALLY well with Vampire Nocturnus , thus making her a must in any vamp deck. She also follows the curve real well (T4: Nocturnus, T5: Vess).

Just saying.

you know what's funny about the Liliana Vess /Vampire Nocturnus thing, is that a Bloodghast equipped with card:Explorer's Scope is cheaper, harder to get rid of, and actually facilitates the mana acceleration (in black!) necessary to support the planeswalker. (Walking Atlas too?)

I was actually thinking about running two Oracle of Mul Daya with maybe 1-2 forest with the fetchlands Verdant Catacombs . That way it could free up some of that mana blockage dealing with the Noc.

I know, I know... the oracle can be Lightning Bolt ed, Pathed, etc. but I still think it is a viable combo. What do you guys think?

I think that it's the same as the Lotus Cobra - if they have to waste their removal on your mana advancement instead of your threats, then that still puts you ahead.

i think fetchlands run a lot more smoothly with a deck, and are almost just as effective. even if your running part red in your vamps deck, if there's enough black cards, your creatures are getting the pump. and if not, THEN you fetch.

@l0ki: Neither of those plainswalkers are valid for any of the decks. Ajani Vengeant is R/W, making it inaccessable, and Elspeth, Knight-Errant was not played at ALL in Fog decks I looked at before starting the article.

@Darkness1835: they're valid for Standard! Naya plays Vengeant, and Elspeth sees play in some white weenie decks.

@SageRook: Liliana is horrid in Vampires. Play a Malakir Bloodwitch or Anowon, the Ruin Sage over her any day of the week.

I saw an interesting build of a Luminarch Ascension deck at a constructed standard event the other day. It was mono-white and actually did include Elspeth. Useful for chop blocking, after all. I wasn't sure how I felt about it, though; surely White has more efficient ways to put bodies on the ground.

-C

yes, but i was just reviewing those three deck archetypes, not all bilion-and-one combinations.

Ruin Sage...? Really? I can understand Bloodwitch but the Sage? His ability doesn't even activate until NEXT turn! With Liliana Vess you have: A nice auto-swing with Nocturnus (tutor), some hand disruption(+1), a body for your opponents to swing at, a wanted card next turn (maybe Nocturnus)(tutor), the possibility of an ultimate!, etc.

@SageRook honestly I have one Sorin Markov on my sideboard, and I would never put lilina in a vamp deck. I would rather turn 5 Mind Sludge or Malakir Bloodwitch anyday. If you get off a turn 5 Mind Sludge its basically gg. No deck is gonna beat you off the top deck.

@SageRook making your opponent sacrifice a creature every turn is worthwhile. it also depends what format you play in. in standard, he isn't /too/ crash hot, but in Highlander he's damn good.

@mcshrubbery obviously you've never played Naya or Jund. :P

@lOki: Oh Highlander! I thought we still on Standard.

@mcshrubbery: Maybe you're more of a control player than an aggro player. I've already admitted that Bloodwitch is good and Mind Sludge is meh (I'd rather have Mind Shatter for more versatility)... top decking it when your opponent has nothing in hand is pretty bad.

But Sorin... in your sideboard?! Why not MB if you've got it? What are you keeping it in your SB for? Is it just for the "surprise" factor? I just don't get it. Oh and by the time this card gets to the field (a whooping 6cc!) your opponent should be down to ten if not lower. Just saying. :D

@ KrazyCaley Maybe they were going for the indestructable ascension just to make sure nobody messes with their win condition. any idea how it did?

what about sharkan vol forgot about him? Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker ... not to many ppl use him outside of cruel control. Tezzeret the Seeker arguably the worst planeswalker but hey worth a look...

Can't forget Eldrazi's champion, Nissa Revane .

Whoever wrote this article has obviously never played magic, these are the three best planeswalkers

1, Elspeth, Knight Errant 2, Garruk Wildspeaker 3, Jace Beleren or possibly Jace the Mind Sculptor, because it isnt yet known how good the new jace is

However, the competetive fog deck is always blue/white, and it runs Jace Beleren

No decks play lilliana, as vampires all suck.

btw whoever says that tezzeret is the worst planeswalker is an idiot, the deck 'tezzerator' or 'tezzeret control' is played in the best deck in the world

are we not considering some of these walkers in their own element?

Ajani DESTROYS in a life gain deck when you manipulate the avatar tokens and use something like card:Soul's Grace

Lilliana might not be worth the mana in a quick vamp deck. But she does have 3 valid abilities. My brother runs a nice discard deck that she would do well in. Like someone else said she can be used to tutor in mid-late game. A friend also uses her fantasically when his vampires get held up too much. Using her last ability and Malakir Bloodwitch and you can o some respectable damage.

Garruk - probably better for quick games. Although i rarely use his second ability.

Jace - like everyone else mentions, almost a necessity. However, the new Jace is stupidly good at replacing old Jace.

I only have chandra ablaze rather than Nalaar, and wouldnt even consider her for almost any deck. Slow red isn't that fun :)

Nissa - rather splendid in any elf deck, and with Joraga Warcaller i have a feeling we might see some more of her.

Dont own Ajani vengeant, tezzeret, bolas (though i know someone who uses him in an ally deck - doesnt fit very well but his 1st ability has its uses), Sorin, Sharkan, so i cant really vouch for those

*or elspeth

@Feece wow. magic players can be so thick. i've said it before, and ill say it again. I only reviewed the plainswalkers that appeared in the decks i reviewed. I didnt see an elspeth-fog deck, so i didnt put it in. I dont need a ten-year-old equivalent bashing me.

unless you are 10. in which case, go play yugioh or something.

@Feece Ditto with Darkness.

You said Vamps suck? Obviously you've never played against one. Again, tutoring with Liliana and Vampire Nocturnus ability are meant to be played together. Just like Dead Reckoning .

I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce... but, I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid.

lol. AMEN.

My opinion is that the decks that were reviewed should have included Elspeth, Knight-Errant jace, the mind sculptor and Ajani Vengeant as they are three of the best planeswalkers ever made (let alone in Standard).

@ both SageRook and Darkness1835, although Feece can be very rude he does have a point Vamp decks aren't great. It takes a long time and a great deal of effort to build a good Vamp deck. I also agree with the idea that Liliana should never go in a Vamp deck. Here is a list of the common competitive decks that will squash a Vamp deck running Liliana:

Runeflare Jacerator Crypt Dredge Jund Eldrazi Green Boros Bushwhacker RDW White Weenie Bant Iona Control 16 land Black 16 land White 16 land Red Naya Lightsaber Pyromancer Ultimatum Esper Artifacts

The sad part is the first 10 will win the turn before you intend to drop Liliana or without fail just because it's a really horrible match up.

Vamps a quick and dirty (at least in standard) you run low cost high damage (Vampire Lacerator , card:Vampire's Bite, Bloodghast and Bloodchief Ascension ) or you run the slower bigger beat vamps (Vampire Nocturnus or Malakir Bloodwitch ) but you never go for control like Liliana or Anowon. They are ment for black/red control decks.

Sorry let me repost that list and make it clearer.

Runeflare

Jacerator

Crypt Dredge

Jund

Eldrazi Green

Boros Bushwhacker

RDW

White Weenie

Bant

Iona Control

16 land Black

16 land White

16 land Red

Naya Lightsaber

Grixis Control

Esper Artifacts

The main problem with vampires is that they are an agro deck which isnt quick enough for standard, if you were going to play agro, why not play RDW, boros bushwacker or white tokens, they are all quicker and far more powerful than vampires.

But they have the removal that can bring them up to speed. Throw in Blade and then Bloodchief Ascension and it can beat even Jacerator as you have seen first hand.

that is true, btu jacerator still has at least a 70% win match up, it beats nearly all creature decks, only heavy burn, which can go over the top of your fogs can really damage you.

and tutoring continually isnt as good an ability as it first seems, most decks that use tutors try and combo off right after they tutor, agro and control decks dont need to tutor in the same way that combo needs to.

My the-sixth-shard-(serious-competive-deck) has a 70% win match up against it. As of worldwake all red decks will side Ricochet Trap and both Runeflare and Jacerator become obsolete in that regard.

no, the ONLY red deck that may POSSIBLY run ricochet trap is red/blue/white control, RDW and jund have no room in the sideboard.

Crypt, Grixis Control, Boros Bushwhacker, 16 land Red. Oh and RDW has room in it's sideboard if it means it beats two major decks. Jund maybe not but ever since people realised how it curved out every good deck has had to be able to beat Jund and not one of the 12 Jund Decks entered in that tournament you dropped from made it into the final. Jund is a staple but no longer a good deck by the current standard. Everyone has Jund answers.

they wont play it still, its not quite strong enough for serious play, pithing needle will always be played over it.

Yeah right. It steals your mill spells and your time warps. GG. You know the series of spells which have specific hate colours: Celestial Purge , Flashfreeze , Deathmark , Mold Adder and Ignite Disorder . No-one ever played Ignite Disorder on sideboard but this spell single spell beats so many decks you can hardly help but side it. Cruel Ultimatum , Time Warp , Twincast , Traumatize , Telemin Performance , Polymorph , Archive Trap . It beats blue by itself.

edit this single spell beats /edit

but it wont be played by RDW because it is far to slow, red/blue/white control MAY use imt, but it is far to specific, and they dont have room in the sideboard with 4 baneslayers and 4 luminarch ascensions, they can use counter spells nearly as effectively, it is to slow again, for boros, jund may possibly use it, but who cares if they do, you just counter it when they use it.

So let me get this straight. Jacerator beats RDW, I will presume your concurance, and there is a single card that can be put on sideboard which will mean that RDW beats Jacerator and you are telling me they won't play it? If RDW beats Jacerator why on earth did you make the switch?

Let me rephrase one of my (many) above statemetns. Any deck that consistently loses to Jacerator and/or Runeflare will run it because they can't afford not to.

But the thing is it wont, it is waaaaay to slow for RDW to play! it costs 4 right? well even if RDW can eventually play it, you just counter it, its not a deck breaking card.

@Feece no, against the decks TAMA suggested, it'd cost R.

Costs R if you played a blue spell.

but its RDW, you dont CARE what they play, and you NEVER bother about waht they will play, cos ALL you do is burn them up as fast as possible

SHOULD I PLAY JACERATOR OR NAYA LIGHTSABER OR JUNK?!?!?!

That'd work so well against fog. Anyway we should stop using this article as a private chat room.

@TAMA Now you know what it is like to talk to a wall.

@ Sagerook, Feece (when prodded) will eventually give logical reasoning to his arguments. Darkness did miss some of the best planeswalkers in standard in his review. Feece pointed it out (although not in the best manner possible) he does make a point that Jacerator is a good deck atm. However I wait to see a good red deck side Ricochet Trap and win. Blue sides Quest for Ancient Secrets and Black sides life loss or discard.

ok. this is the LAST time im saying this.

I reviewed three deck archetypes. and the plainswalkers commonly used in them. plainswalkers such as Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Ajani Vengeant didnt fit into any of these decks, or werent played. thats why i didnt include them.