also a few other things for ulgris.

What key words do you believe belong here on top of wither. and remember that there are five shards so we dont want EVERYTHING BLACK GREEN AND BLUE.

what creature types are you thinking?

I think it would be cool to see some ooze cards with stuff like wither, or even infect

Also, an idea for a new mechanic, ground break. It lets you destroy a land when it deals damage attacking (or something like that, sounds a little overpowered).

One more idea: swarm decks, maybe some cards like [Relentless Rats]

1) Rats, wurms and insects should all definitely be in this shard. I see it as being a really primal, what you don't eat will eat you type land but that's just me. I personally always thought it would be cool to do for spiders, plants or beasts what Kamigawa did to rats and snakes but that's just me. Speaking of which, bringing either of those tribes would be a bad idea either. That and zombies and shamans which I'll elaborate on in three.

2) For mechanics I would love to see this shard take a survival of the fittest type theme. Devour would be amazing. Since you mentioned things being poisonous in the description bringing in poison counters of some kind would also be cool.

3) This seems like the kind of place where dark magic would loom. I could see some ancient evil relics (artifacts or non-basic lands) being hidden here as well as things practicing dark magic such as necromancy (zombies, spirits, ect.). I was thinking shamans would be good because those are sort of primitive wizards and this is a primitive place.

Mechanics: I like the DEVOUR and INFECT ideas from IronHead and Carn13

Creature types: anything small and nasty; rats, insects, snakes, ooze, spiders, (leeches?) etc . I don't see there being many big creatures living in this place.

Except big burrowing worms. How about an entire underground ecosystem based in tunnels burrowed by the giant worms?

How about elf mutants? Have things like doublestrike, infect, even devour

1) for creatures i could see any of the following living here: insects, plants, fungi, snakes, serpents, octopus, crocodiles, squid, oozes, leeches, bats, saprolings, rats , horrors , and wurms.

2) devour might fit the theme of ulgris pretty well. i think ulgris should have quite a few death touch creatures for the most ulgris should have smaller creatures at least cost wise. ulgris should also have plenty of swarm and ambush creatures.

3) my thoughts on ulgris: ulgris is a plane riddled with cannivrous plants and deadly insects with the only way to survive is to be quick or to be clever elves tend to be the bottom of the food chain but the elves are just as deadly as anything else they rely on black magic to survive wurms tunnel underground and rely surprise to kill its prey the waters edge are inhabited by crocodiles, leeches, and etc. octopus, squids, and serpents plague the underground rivers.

Fungi, Carnivorous Plants, Wasps, Mantids/Locusts, Rats, Swamp sharks/piranhas?

Devour/infect were instantaneous for everyone it seems. Seems like a shroud kind of place. Stinging insects giving your enemies negative cumulative upkeep effects.

Major artifact hate. Grave robbing. Curse umbras. Mold, mold, and more mold!

yeah shroud seems like it would be prevalent on ulgris

What might be cool flavor wise is primordial merfolk that dwell under and in the dark and murky waters of Ulgris. This is, of course, assuming we think its a good idea to have a major tribe.

Black, Blue, and Green have a strong assosiation with Dredge and other graveyard centric decks, so it'd be cool if we could have some of those kind of things in Ulgris.

Also: Zombies, Plants, Druids, Insects, Wurms, Illusions, Cephalids, Beast, etc.

Im sure Ill think of more! lol

How can u have black & blue on the same shard and not have zombies!!!

Also, i'd love to see some nice mana ramp having both black & green.

Would the core color be green?

yes the core color would be green because black and blue are greens enemy colors and do you think drow might be fitting they seem to fit the colors being dark elves that tend to be spellcasters of sorts would love to see them in a set

If theres zombies, i think it would be cool to have there be an ancient civilization that was overtaken and became the zombies. this would make for some cool artifacts in the shard.

I like the idea of insects, lizards - like the bassilisk / iguana etc. - this area seem ripe for some death touch. I also like the idea of leeches, and ooze.

Also a nice wurm place as well (these should be the top of the food chain). Wurms being very green.

I would also think a few plants would be appropriate. Actually scratch that.... lets make the water or things in the water a force here... that water could be sentient or alive or maybe support a different type of life in that region, and be the central focus of the creatures living there.... who are all sort of battling the rival water creature types? ...

ok so how about this... the wurms actually respond to the creatures on the surface, and "regulate" the waterways by digging their tunnels underneath the ground. The other creatures fight amongst themselves, and attempt to curry favor with the wurms, to get the water which they prefer into their area and by currying favor with the wurms they can try and expand their area at the expense of other areas. (if we run w/ this then there would need to be some focus on land / water interaction and movement should be big.) I could see some druids perhaps as a form of tribe in this area. They should sort of worship the wurms though who provide them w/ fresh water.

Intelligent Plants.

zombie-treefolk. nuff said.

some sort of slime or leeches or zombies with infect or wither or poison or some sort of -1/-1 would be cool or rfg stuff or bouncing

Remeber by what keywords woukd u like i was refuring to evergreen. Wither will be the only set specific mechanic in this shard.

The description provided by the head team says that there are few if any sentient species here -- but blue encompasses mind magic, not just water -- I wonder if maybe there are some few tribes of ascetic monks (maybe even zombie monks?), constantly testing themselves and their magic here, pushing themselves to the utmost, walking a line between green life magic and black death magic?

I love the idea of a sort of secret, underground world in Ulgris -- I wonder if we couldn't squeeze in some mechanic like morph or phasing, whereby creatures vanish into the ground when predators appear? maybe abilities that trigger when a creature with power 5 or greater enters the battlefield?

creature types -- spiders that don't suck would be awesome, as would serpents and octopi. Hrm. maybe a mini-cycle of goo creatures: blue/green algaes, green/black oozes, and blue/black slimes?

maybe licids or some other sort of parasites?

Im with landot, octopi would be awesome

@Xander574: At Xander if that's the case then Shroud, Trample, Reach, Deathtouch, and Intimidate are all givens. Possibly Vigilance (on the look out for stuff that could kill you), flash (stuff that ambushes you. Is Flash evergreen?) and Lifelink (blood for sustenance).

@IronHead, yes flash is evergreen. But many of the key words people are suggesting are not evergreen and so will not be apart of Ulgris.

for evergreen abilities i could see reach, trample, flash (ambush creatures), deathtouch (poisonous creatures), some flying, a touch of landwalk, and shroud.

landwalking might be another fun place to do a mini-cycle: two green creatures, with either trample or regeneration, one with swampwalk, one with islandwalk; two blue creatures, with flash or flying, one with swampwalk, one with forestwalk, and two black creatures, with deathtouch or wither, one each with islandwalk / forestwalk.

also, Ulgris is the perfect place for Drop Bears.

Drop Bear

creature - bear

2G

Flash

when Drop Bear enters the battlefield, it has flying until end of turn.

2/2

I was thinking of cards that inhibit Irindu's flow keyword. Such as: Insanity 1BG Enchantment

Enchant player. Enchanted player can't cast cards for thier flow costs.

Or something along those lines.

toads, frogs, and other amphibious life forms seem fitting

I think basilisks should be involved somehow.

drop bears reminded me of Winged Coatl and i think its a perfect example of the kinds of creatures you might come across on ulgris

@Gamer7129: the problem with that is then the set will develop whats called Kamigawa symptom meaning in a vacuum its good but it doesn't play well with other sets.

@IronHead : I hear what you're saying, but it would be fun to have some sort of interaction between the 'shards'. maybe, say,

Swamp Fever

Enchantment

When Mystic Ambush enters the battlefield, choose a player. While Mystic Ambush is on the battlefield, that player cannot cast spells from anywhere other than their hand, and cannot pay alternate casting costs.

flavor text: The land of Ulgris doesn't like you anymore than its inhabitants do.

I know we're not really writing cards now -- I'm just thinkin' out loud. Since there was some worry about not knowing how absuable flow would be, it does seem smart to give ourselves some hate in the other shards.

Why not have a keyword like 'Spawn' where at the beginning of your upkeep, creatures with spawn create a token of themselves. Bear in mind, not too many buff creatures would have this. Ulgris seems to have a swarming yet ravenous feel to it so another keyword idea, 'Hunger' tap: sacrifice target creature and deal damage equal to sacrificed creature's power to target creature or player.

My idea is to have options of spawning an army or sacking them as suicide bombers.

Flavour text idea: Many are unsure whether Ulgroth sustains life or life sustains Ulgroth.

Hmm.. well, is flow considered casting from your hand? Because if not..

Decay

Enchantment

If a non-token permanent enters the battlefield without being cast from a player's hand, that permanent gains 'At the beginning of the next end step, sacrifice this permanent unless you pay '3''

Could help inhibit flow but also have applications against other mechanics as well.

I see Ulgris as a cross between Jund and Grixis. A shard full of dangerous creatures likely to eat you at any time, and full of dark magic. This makes me immediately think of Deadly Recluse . I would expect plenty of wurms, spiders, snakes, zombies, stuff with deathtouch, something like Scute Mob , and DROP BEARS!

Personally, you may all disagree, but i don't think that wither really belongs here. It's a shard covered in dense vegetation and swarms of insects. Wouldn't wither belong on a plane which is slowly deteriorating away? I would think that poison would suit better, but that would be stupid with the release of infect.

Maybe wither is supposed to be like a hunting technique? Creatures which stalk their prey for days, slowly weakening it. But that's the only way in which i see wither to fit on Ulgris.

I realise that we're only using evergreen keywords but i see devour as a much more fitting mechanic. Or, we could create a mechanic for Ulgris

I like NecroBane's idea of Spawn and Hunger. I think Spawn would be: At the beginning of your upkeep, put a (SOMETHING) token into play. e.g. 1/1 saproling. And hunger would be like Scarland Thrinax , being able to activate at any time.

But this is just my view

Hippos were what i was thinking when I read the description. Angry half-dead hippos.....

@ leon_raymond: Thanks. Black, blue and green seem basically like putrifaction for me. The main idea that stick out to me with Ulgris is the idea of many many small creatures living in a 'decaying world' as leon_raymond said it. Wither seems like a nice fit to small creatures in large numbers. Never doubt the power of numbers. That's my view of Ulgris.

Dare I say Faeries?!

But, seriously, I think putrification/putrifaction is a GREAT key concept for this shard... great suggestion.

I see mutated Faeries and Merfolk in particular... blue things in a moss covered swamp. Insects, swamp creatures (almost like a Dagobah type deal), etc. Black/green little baddies to compliment the big nasty blue creatures stuck in this shard.

I think decay is a good concept, but I envision Ulgris as a heaving, pulsating, writhing, gross thing. Decrepit and dark, but very much alive.

For themes and abilities, I would suggest a lot of pain, return permanents, and creature sacrificing for counterspelling, pumping, card draw, token creation (spawning), and such. I think this shard screams Johnny and paying things/sacrificing things to gain tremendous benefits.

Maybe the whole concept of the shard can be creating many small tokens and like exarkun809 said, sacrificing them to do countless things. Imagine the possibilities. Sacking a saproling token to give target creature flying until end of turn for example. All it needs is a good keyword meaning 'benefit from death'...

Dagobah is a great comparison, butDagobah had one sentient being on it. The rest was the wild. Nature raw and writhing. Faeries and merfolk, I don't know about. primal is the word I would use. keep the discussion rolling though

Dagobah Is exactly what i was thinking @ squire-not to be the giant star wars nerd that i am, but there is acctually a large cannibalistic society on dagobah Remember its a big planet. and yoda had to be near the darkside cave to mask his force presence. which the cannibal society avoided.

if merfolk were to be on ulgris i would expect them to look kind of like the merrows in shadowmoor as for purification as a theme to me that feels more like something for the red/black/white shard considering those colors have been known for cleansing/purifying Ulgris reminds of jund with blue mana instead of red and it still has a kill or be killed attitude but with dragons playing a minor role and there being a wide variety of magic to deal with threats such as bouncing, removal, and mind control, etc.

@ Xander - Cannibal species? The Hepsalum Tash? 25' tall worm dudes with hands - they were peaceful? Don't recall anything else mentioned cept gnarltrees, butcherbugs, dragonsnakes, bogwings, and the swamp slugs. got a reference? I'd would hate to think I missed a book somewhere. And hail fellow SW geek :)

@xera

Not Purify, but Putrefy... quite the opposite definition actually despite just the small spelling difference. Putrefy is to make putrid, which means decaying or rotting and emitting a fetid smell.

ah oops didnt see the the T there yea putrification definitely fits ulgris lol sorry

@ $mH?i?- it's comic. and not a species crash landed humans.

some things ive seen say theres only 1 sentient humanoid on dagobah- official star wars books, mind you. wheres this cannibal species thing coming from?

Please stay on topic here. If you wish to discuss Star Wars take somewhere else, the initial references to it were relevant but now it's getting too much off topic. I am a star wars fan, but we need to keep in mind that this is not the place.

Sorry if I appear to be mean or whatever.

Thank you.

Just a thought. Why would Wither be a main keyword for a blue, green and black shard? I mean black I can understand but it kind of contradicts the blue and green. Wither associates things with a dying world and from the comments it appears that many want it swarming with life whether they be insects and rats etc.

That's what i was trying to get at. Ulgris seems to be a shard teeming with life. Disgusting abominations, but well and truly alive. Which is why i think that we could come up with a more fitting keyword. Such as devour, or we could come up with an original. I like the idea of creatures producing tokens during the upkeep and of creatures activating abilities by sacrificing other creatures.

Yeah, Ulgris seems to be rather than dying and weakened, just always hungry. Things reproduce quickly and things are constantly consumed. I agree, Devour seems so fittingly perfect to a world such as Ulgris. Adaptabiliy and speed are vital to survive. Kinda reminds me of an accelerated Zendikar only more rot.

Im with everyone else. devour would be perfect for ulgris- im thinking a insect swarm card which is like 1/1 with devour- it being a one-drop would be cool

@NecroBane Clearly you didn't pay attention during the Shadowmoor/Eventide block. The majority of creatures WITH Wither were black and green, so really the only color that doesn't fit is blue. Which if I'm not mistaken it was the community that originally voted for it to be whither a while.

That's "a while back." at the end of my post. Oh and if you're going to critique the colors of the keyword: devour is only green and red, there is only one black creature in existence with devour.

My point is that really, you can't just say a keyword doesn't work because the colors are slightly off.

Yeah, Wither is a black, green and red keyword, but colours aside, in Shadowmoor/Eventide it felt llike it needed Wither. And don't get me wrong. I like the Wither ability but it just doesn't really feel to mingle well. I mean I can understand where it would fit with 'poisonous and dangerous critters' but I feel I different keyword could be applied.

These are just my opinions and I'm just leaving them out in the open.

Zylo, I think now that the ball is rolling and people are getting a feel for this set, things are becoming more clear and we have a better grasp of what we want. Wither fits, and I personally don't mind it as a keyword. Part of Ulgris should be decay and infestation. Wither fits that. But, I think what people are getting at is the other side of Ulgris.

Wither is thoroughly black, so I don't get why that wouldn't fit in our shard. Devour is thoroughly green, so that could fit as well.

I would suggest staying with Wither (since it's an ability) and adding something like: Putrefy -- Sacrifice this creature and attach it to another, it does X. Treat it as an enchantment. I think Devour fits the shard... but Devour sucked as a mechanic :) We would have to seriously tweak it.

I know I'm gonna get a "where were you during original brainstorm." But, honestly I wasn't around for that. So, may be too late... but this article is titled "Ulgiris Brainstorm," no? :)

That was @ NecroBane too, sorry. And I meant wither is fine to keep b/c it certainly fits as an active combat ability if not THE keyword.

We saw Flow in Irindu, but we had many other active combat abilities like shroud and haste. Wither hasn't been used as much in previous sets, but it's still in the same category as those. So, keeping Wither and adding another keyword or something seemed logical to me. That's where my thought process on the previous post was going.

Xander574 says... Remeber by what keywords woukd u like i was refuring to evergreen. Wither will be the only set specific mechanic in this shard.

Zylo says.... @IronHead, yes flash is evergreen. But many of the key words people are suggesting are not evergreen and so will not be apart of Ulgris.

Oops. Well, I'm way off base. If only 1 new mechanic is allowed, then strike my previous comments.

I'm hearing the cries out against Wither. Since we have not yet created a single Ulgris card, it's honestly not too late to change Ulgris' keyword. I knew early on in this project that the only way for us to create a community set was to be flexible. It's possible that this is one of those times for adaptation in order to match the community's desire. However, let me first stick up for Wither.

First of all, as has already been stated, Wither got included in our set via vote. Another keyword that made it into our set via vote is Clamp (CARDNAME's power and toughness are each equal to their printed values and cannot be changed). I personally feel that the interactions between Wither and Clamp are really intriguing. So, if Wither gets removed, we have to keep in mind that Clamp would probably get weakened as an ability.

The Head Team did consider a proposition to the community to change Wither to Infect. However, poison came dead last in the community vote. We were also hesitant to include such a new keyword, since there is currently little experience known of its interactions and implications. Plus, flavor-wise, Infect is currently synonymous with the Phyrexia (which we currently do not plan to include in our set).

One of the arguments against Wither here is that it doesn't fit the flavor of Ulgris. During Shadowmoor, I associated Wither with getting burned (Cinderbones ) and getting scars (Scar ). On Ulgris, however, I associate Wither with being eaten by swarms of vermin and being weakened by venom. In both cases, the physical body is slowly getting harmed. It's just doing so in a different manner.

Finally, if we were to get rid of Wither, what would replace it? There have been a few suggestions to create another new keyword. I'm hesitant to do this because according to Mark Rosewater, Wizards R&D has made it a rule that every new Magic set must include an older keyword (that isn't evergreen). Wither is the only keyword in this set that has previously existed. So, to try to keep the validity of our set, I think we should keep an older keyword.

Devour has been suggested quite a bit. I'm hesitant towards Devour for two reasons. Firstly, most of the creature type suggestions that have been given are small creatures (with the exception of wurms). Jund was filled with huge creatures (Dragons, Elemental, Hellion, Wurm), so it made more sense to me to have Devour on Jund. Secondly, Ulgris is similar to Jund in the survival, eat or be eaten sense. Because they are similar in that respect, I don't want to give them the same keyword because that may imply that we are copying rather than getting inspiration.

Another idea is to move switch another keyword that has made it into our set to Ulgris. Other than Flow, which is on Irindu, we have Clamp, Render (Each life you pay while casting this spell reduces its cost by 1), and Cleave (Combat damage dealt by this creature to blocking creatures causes the blocking creature's controller to lose that much life). However, out of these options, I think Wither still fits Ulgris the best.

Well, that's my two-cents on having Wither on Ulgris. I have full confidence in both our community and the Head Team that we can make Wither work well with the flavor of Ulgris, as well as giving Wither some fun and innovative interactions. However, as I originally stated, we're not completely against replacing Wither. After hearing me out, what would you guys like to do?

OKay. So i would like to remind people one fact. Wither can be a part of the shard but if we want another major "mechanic" in ulgirs. it does not necessarily have to be a keyword. But more of a theme. If you look at naya, and esper, neither acctually had keywords. Naya had the "when a creature with power 5 or greater enters..." theme and esper had colored artifacts. Now im not saying anything that blatant is needed. But there can be a general thematic quality to cards. Like token creation and usage (similar to the thalids of past sets) Or flash being a major everygreen keyword.

oh and i think wither can fit here. The point is anything that enters ulgris rarely lives long. and its a very "decay" esc death. Which wither fits perfects. Think the scarabs from the mummy movies.

I would just like to agree with mistergreen527. He made some really great points.

wither fits ulgris just fine and i think it should stay just because blue didnt have wither in shadowmoor doesnt mean blue cant have wither on ulgris two cards to remember from shadowmoor Scarscale Ritual and Leech Bonder both are blue and have some sort of interaction with -1/-1 counters so if we decide to not give blue creatures wither we could give them different ways to interact with the -1/-1 counters ( i.e. 2: target creature with a -1/-1 counter gains flying until end of turn.) and keep in mind there will be alot of G/U and G/B creatures which could have wither as well.

as for theme keywords Flash and/or Deathtouch. i could see some token production as a theme as well.

i prefer flash over deathtouch and token production for the theme of ulgris

Maybe if you flash a card, you then sac at end of turn?

I mentioned cumulative upkeep costs before as a weapon of Ulgris, and it seems to fit right in.

'When you come to Ulgris, everything is on a clock.'

I agree that the two biggest evergreen keywords we will likely see will be flash and deathtouch. They both fit Ulgris very nicely. That and I'm sure we will have some sort of creature production like, as Xander574 said, Thallid s.

I personally think we should bring back dredge instead of wither. Or maybe in combination with it?

Also something to consider: We could just have a theme that isn't actually a keyword to unify the set. Naya and Esper did that and it seemed to work well with them. Maybe graveyard related, since green, blue, and black are the grave-shenannigans colors?

I dunno. Just throwin it out there.

Well we would not be able to have a combination of both dredge and wither because neither are evergreen. Though we could, as many have suggested, have a non-keyword theme.

Xander574 made some very good points. I like the idea of eating stuff either by sacing it off the field, exiling it from the graveyard (scavengers) or, in rare cases, removing it from other zones (depending on the flavor of the card) for some sort of benefits for our creatures. Token production is also a good idea for a central theme for Ulgris.

If the keywords are still open for debate, and we're looking for an older mechanic to include, may I suggest Unearth? It always struck me as strange that red got so much unearth . . . it really seems, flavor-wise, black / blue / green -- manipulating life and death.

I tend to think about mechanics from a flavor viewpoint; bear that in mind.

mistergreen527 makes lots of good points, and I think wither is a great mechanic here -- definitely feels like disease, decay, sickness. Play-wise there are great interactions between wither and unearth -- a card flashes in (green / blue), gets pinged to death by wither [green / black], and then gets unearthed for one last stand, counter-free but destined for exile [blue / black].

I don't think deathtouch makes much sense here, or is necessary. I see ulgris, really, as a place where there aren't many overt threats -- lots of little pingers and piddly enchantments that don't seem like a threat, until suddenly you wake up and realize you've been eaten, zombified, and enslaved, and maybe not in that order.

GUB is more profilterate/graft than wither

@landot Once again, Unearth is not an evergreen ability. You are suggesting both Unearth and Whither would be here, when they wouldn't. Only evergreen keywords and the main keyword, which currently is set to Whither but can change.

@J00nes For the same reasoning we are not going to consider Infect, I'm sure we will not be considering Proliferate because it's a new mechanic and no one really knows how it plays out and how powerful it truly is.

I am however a huge fan of Graft as my favorite deck is a grafting mutant deck. I can see how Graft COULD fit on Ulgris, but in reality I believe Whither is more suiting, though just my personal opinion. Remember the main keyword is up for debate and who knows, it could change to something like Graft or Unearth.

@Zylo I understand the evergreen keywords. And yes, I am suggesting that there might be multiple non-evergreen keywords. And I understand your point of view. However, from the intro post:

"3) Are there any general creative ideas you would like to present?"

We're brainstorming. I'm not sure this is the appropriate place to say 'no, this simply isn't going to happen.'

I'm just throwing stuff against the wall -- we don't need to scrape it off quite yet.

also, (and this is just me being an OCD language nerd, so please don't take offense) wither =/= whither.

I'm not trying to shot your ideas down. I liked your thought process of how WITHER would interact with Unearth. I was simply reminding you about there being only one non-evergreen ability in case you had forgotten. It seems many people either forget or don't get it. I was just trying to clarify what you were suggesting, sorry if you took offense to it.

heres an idea that goes with decay theme of ulgris ( at the beginning of your upkeep [CardName] gets a -1/-1 counter.) this would obviusly only be on creatures but maybe some of these creatures get bonuses as long as they have a -1/-1 counter on them such as flying (this bonus would be because the creature gets more desperate as it gets closer to death) or some may have some way to remove these -1/-1 counters ( i.e. pay 2 life: remove a -1/-1 counter from CardName.) and it wouldn't have to be a keyword either. just thought i'd throw it out there.

That's an interesting idea. A ticking clock, like sending thing out quickly is the only way to survive on Ulgris. As to the whole Wither argument, I see a world where everything naturally decays, why should the creatures also be able to speed up the process while struggling to survive. Flavourwise, they would have more defensive abilities like Flash and Deathtouch. If enchantments could have withering abilities that would be interesting. Blue, I've noticed seems to have been a bit neglected, I mean will there be any blue abilities and such?

well ut appears that flash seems to be a mechanic people believe should be heavily in the set which is very blue. plus if mill will go anywhere its in this shard. shrugs so blue isnt forgotten. Though not a key word, dredge esc shananigans are a deffinite possibility. Also the idea of mind control esc mechanics would fit in this shard.

I REALLY like the ticking clock idea. Its super cool and it makes sense. Not to mention it works really well with wither. For example:

3BB

creature - zombie wurm demon cephalid mutant

At the begining of your upkeep, put a -1/-1 counter on CARDNAME.

If CARDNAME has 3 or more -1/-1 counters on it, CARDNAME gains intimidate and gets +1/+0.

5/5

@Zylo sorry. been a dumb week - I apologize for the attitude.

@SocialistElite I didn't really get the 'ticking clock' thing before, but that's great.

similarly, and since we were talking about insects and creepy - crawlies:

Megapede

3G

Creature - Insect Horror

During your upkeep, put a -1/-1 counter on Megapede.

During your end step, put a minipede token onto the battlefield for each -1/-1 counter on Megapede. Treat this token as a 1/1 green creature with wither.

2/4

I can see this as a place populated by two major sentient races: elves and merfolk both hate each others guts. the elves are greatly out numbered by the merfolk and have turned to necromacy to help even the odds the merfolk are brutal and merciless hunters dominating the underground rivers and bogs able to surprise attack almost anything.

the elves have had to adapt from being a peaceful race living next to nature to one fighting for its survival. like most elves they are humanoid in shape have long ears but their physical body is sickly far too skinny to be healthy they depend heavily on their magic to survive the harsh land they are constantly fending off attacks from wild creatures and merfolk raids while trying hard to stave off sickness all of this has stretched their resources to the max they are surviving but barely they would live in small close knit communities with possibly a way to communicate with other Thorpes they would mostly be wizards or druids with some zombie elves

the merfolk have thrived in their new environment instead of being confined to oceans for prey they now have a whole world they use their magic to navigate silently hunting bigger and bigger prey they hate the elves with a passion and pride them selves on the number they have killed they are larger than others of their kind on other planes and look more serpentine

I think Justarsaus has an epic idea. That would work so well flavour-wise and would cause for an amazing storyline.

I also take back my previous argument, i feel that wither fits very well with Ulgris. I see Ulgris to be full of -1/-1 counters, flash and token production. Lots and lots of tokens. I like the ideas that landot and SocialistElite have come up with for creatures.

I think, since this is a place of death and danger, that deathtouch should make some appearance (Deadly Recluse ). And i think, if we go with Justarsaus's idea, that a lot of elves should have vigilance because they'd be constantly on the look-out for enemies.

Tunnel Worm 3BG Forestwalk, Swampwalk When this creature enters the battlefield, sacrifice 1 land. 5/5

Great posts, Mr. Green.

I think we are focusing a lot on the keyword because we think it will dominate the creativeness of the shard. This shard is really original and full of opportunities to innovate. So I think having Wither as the 'keyword' to revolve around will be great, and then when we actually do card creation there will be a ton of cool things that will surface.

What will really make a mark is not the new concepts we come up with, but taking what exists and creating something novel with it.

So I'm all for Wither. It may not encompass all we want to convey in Ulgiris, but it's a great starting point and place to revolve our original creations around.

I am kinda a fan of booting out a special word like wither all together, and instead making this a token creating ocasionally death touching realm. But this is a problem then for clamp.. and we would probably need to switch that to what ever the runner up was.

if you guys need to i can give more deets

xeratheenigma actually came up with the ticking clock idea.

Also, we could just have a critter that says:

When CARDNAME is put into the graveyard, put a 1/1 insect creature for each -1/-1 counter on it.

We wouldn't have to put the ticking clock thing on it thanks to wither.

Also, I think Justarsaus's idea is good enough for an entire set in and of itself. I think we should save this idea for its own set.

And what is Clamp?

similar to the symbiotic cycle? Symbiotic Elf Symbiotic Beast and Symbiotic Wurm ?

how about instead of a creature that does that we have an enchantment that does that

parasidic infestation 2bg enchant creature damange dealt to creature is dealt in the form of -1/-1 counters when enchanted creature is put in the grave yard from the field put a 1/1 insect token on the the battlefield under your control for each -1/-1 counter on it

When I heard the idea of a ticking clock I instantly thought of Grief Tyrant .

@Socialist clamp is a new keyword for the the community set the defintion is:

Clamp: CardName's power and toughness are each equal to their printed value and can't be changed

nods @ Zylo -- or the new Carnifex Demon . It seems a little awkward to be doing all this -1/-1 stuff at the same time SoM is coming out.

I like Justarsaus's theme, also -- I can see merfolk artifact equipment that adds -1/-1 counters when it deals damage --

rootwither trident 4 artifact - equipment

equip 2

equipped creature gains +1/+0 and "whenever this creature deals damage to a creature, put a -1/-1 counter on that creature. If that creature is an elf, put two -1/-1 counters on it, instead."

what if some of the wild life became adapted to the venom of other things and thrived on it like i can see wurm(s) here is two ideas kinda a vertical cycle

thurgal (could use a better name) 3ggbb legendary creature - wurm wurms you control have trample other wurms you control get +1/+1 for each -1/-1 counter on it thurgal gets +4/+4 for each -1/-1 counter on it 5/5

plague wurm ggbb creature - wurm plage wurm gets +2/+2 for each -1/-1 counter on it 3/3

plague larva gb creature - wurm plague larva gets +1/+1 for each -1/-1 counter on it (2/2)

the wurms from ulgris have adapted to the unique venoms and evolved to flurish off what would kill other beings the oldest living wurm has earned the nick name thurgal given to him by the elves meaning plague gorger

ok or three i kinda came up with the legendary after i made the other two

those creatures have a "what doesnt kill you makes you stronger" theme and i like it i played with that idea myself but wasnt sure how big of a buff they should get for having -1/-1 counters but it could fit on ulgris

i also kinda was thinking of maybe having a green/blue pinger with wither something like

strangling vine 1gu creature - plant defender (maybe not?) wither tap deal one damage to target creature or player 0/4

got the idea from Giant Oyster

The thought of a wither pinger already exists and Magic expressed that indirectly by putting Power of Fire in the set with wither so you could have a Scuzzback Scrapper with Power of Fire attached so it taps to put a -1/-1 counter on target creature or 1 damage to target player.

It's really great with Kulrath Knight .

About creature types, remember that Shards of Alara had a really big "BOSS" type creature for each shard. Dragons, gargantuans, angels, sphinxes(wish it had been djinn), and demons.

Should NEGASHARDS do this, too? For this set there has been much talk of only small creatures. Could be time to think about a biggie type, that is perhaps the only prevalent big one. Crocodiles seem logical to the set, but maybe not a strong enough archtype.

Wurms maybe the way to go, since they always been around(like the aforementioned shards biggies), but never a focal point.

Another idea came from being reminded of the Loch Ness Monster. I understand that the locals say it is a giant (possibly amphibious) eel that can come out of the water and eats cows and deer near the water at night.

True or not, this idea seems like a great match for the Ulgris boss creature. Also an idea for an ability: "Unaffected by Deathtouch"

I'm thinking maybe a Loch Ness Monsterish giant amphibious eel/wurm/snake creature with Immunity to Deathtouch plus shroud or troll shroud.

back to my original elf v merfolk theme

Pedpat 2GB legendary creature - elf wizard shroud When an elf creature you control is put into a grave yard from play you may put a 2/2 zombie creature token on to the battle field. 2/3

still workin on a merfolk leader and flavor text for this one

Another idea...perhaps an ANACONDA could be the big baddie boss creature in this shard.

Serpents in general, could be a theme here. Mire Boa comes to mind. Water snakes, too. Copperheads ideal.

Leaches, slime, fungus, ooze, and mold makes sense to me. We have probably the most humid of any three-color land here.

Mosquitos, too. Poisonous toads.

In nature, some SALAMANDERS specialize in being RESISTANT TO POISON. If we make venom a theme here, then I think having other critters with an immunity might be good. Also things that remove poison counters from a player. Maybe even leeches with healing effects, ala old-school medicine.

I personally reckon that wurms should be the "top dogs" of Ulgris. And i like vic's idea of "immune to deathtouch". I would like to see deathtouch as a fairly big keyword, along with wither

Wurms being top dogs would be awesome and just throwing it out there, could Ulgris even be a creature. Like the plane is alive or even something like the spirit of Ulgris. Deathtouch resistance is an awesome idea. Maybe named LifeCling.

Thanks Leon.

post # 101 got me to thinking... The concept of this set is one central color, plus it's two enemy colors. In this case, Green is main, Black/Blue the enemies.

So, the elf v. merfolk idea(which does sound fun), got me thinking about the logic of it. I tend to do that.

It seems to me that if you do that, in order to balance things, you would have to ALSO have elf v. something black. Zombies I suppose. Otherwise it seems out of balance to me.

Or... better yet. As a theme to the whole set, since we do have "enemy colors together" already built in, we have each of our 5 shards use the "tribe vs. tribe" dynamic, except that it would be main(elf) vs. something that we have seen it BOTH of the enemy colors.

So, we're probably talking elf v. faeries.

This gives me another idea...We can have a common "class" tribe for the shard, which both warring races can use. Each shard gets one. I'm thinking assassins here. We've seen this type class with elves and faeries already.

Scarblade Elite comes to mind.

New here. Just reading some of the earlier posts.

I want to say that I am also in the Anti-Wither camp. As I recall, it existed in red, not blue. Also it was central to black. This shard is central to green.

We have to remember, Shards of Alara had the main color, with influence from the other two. Green stuff has to take the lead role here.

That, plus I just flat-out don't see it here. That's me anyway.

@NecroBane it doesn't need a keyword, as previously discussed in this thread -- the cards can just say [cardname] is unaffected by deathtouch.

In plenty of shards, the colors work in tandem with each other -- I feel like here, it's almost a 3-way scrap between G, B, and U. and as I was making up concept cards, vic made the same point. great minds think alike.

Amphibious creatures like toads and salamanders make lots of sense.

a take on the 'big boss' idea -- have 3 sort of 'mini-bosses', maybe one BU, one BG, and one UG, who have some sort of special effect if 2 or 3 of them are on the battlefield at the same time. Something like

Serpent-Might of Ulgris

Toad-Soul of Ulgris

Ooze-Mind of Ulgris

I agree with vic about the colour problem with wither. If green is in a plane with both its natural colours, then it should be more defensive whilst black and blue would be more offensive (So far I find Deathtouch to be a compatible offence). If green could resist Deathtouch and some other ability it would really balance things out.

Politely, I completely disagree. We can push the bounds a little here -- it's a concept set, and I suspect that the wizards dev team doesn't say 'we've never printed x ability in y color before, so we can't ever do it!' what matters is that it fits the flavor of the setting and the set, without going completely off-target mechanic-wise.

green is the color of nature, and natural chaos -- that certainly includes poison, mechanized here by wither and deathtouch. Especially on a watery-swampy shard, where it's all about a vicious, cruel struggle for survival. It's lush, but it's lush in a subtle, quiet, intensely dangerous way. and I think we're nailing that, flavor-wise, just about perfectly.

and if we have to make 'this is how wizards did it' arguments, can I point out that infect, which is basically wither v2, is in green, as well as black?

im going to have to agree with landlot it is not pushing the color wheel to much if we give green some wither

number of cards wizards printed with wither (37 currently (counting multicolor)) white 1 (2.7%) blue 1 (2.7%) green 10 (27%) red 12 (32%) black 18 (48%) colorless 5 (13.5%)

as we can see wither is a mostly black keyword but green still takes up over a forth of what wizards printed.

Yeah... wither to me seemed like red/green/black. Almost every wither deck I've seen is all three of those colors.

well as you can see... there are only one of each white and blue but any way wither seems like a good thing for this shard

I wish I was home during before the end date, but sadly not.

Irrindu had its own keyword, why not Ulgris?

I was going to suggest maybe base the theme around a keyword "Lineage". For example, a creature can have "Lineage 2 (This creature gets +2/+2 for each card in your graveyard that shares a name with it.)"

Whether that would be powerful enough is questionable. Maybe it could be "Lineage 2 (This creature gets +2/+2 for each card in your graveyard that shares a [type] with it.)

If you read above (I don't expect you to read everything, I know I wouldn't if I was you) it is explained that Wizards has set a standard that every set they release will have at least one keyword that have previously used before. For example, Scars has brought back Imprint. In our Negashards set we have decided to re-use wither. If we don't re-use a previous keyword then it will not be as close to an official set as possible.

@Zylo I understand

Me too. Wither it is. Come to think of it, it makes just as much sense with blue as with red.

Hope it's not too late for this, but I think we(myself incl.) missed the boat on a major creature type that is under-utilized, and makes a lot of sense for Ulgris....

TROLLS