I don't think you understood MaRo's comment that they were already printing Mythic Rares. He was not speaking to the power level of the cards at all. Before the introduction of the mythic rare in the form we know it now with a "burny orange" expansion symbol, Wizards had already been printing rares in different ratios for sets.

If you look at some older sets you might find things like R1, R2, U1, U2, U3 as card rarities. These indicate there is a different number of copies of that card printed on each sheet of that rarity. So they print half as many copies of a card with R1 rarity as they do an R2 rarity.

Granted, I don't believe the ratios were as ridiculous as 8:1 like they are with current mythics, but I just felt obligated to make sure his statement was clear.

Magic is an expensive game. It always has been, and I think it always will be. If you love playing it, the money you sink into it doesn't really matter because it is part the game and part collecting the cards you like.

I agree with cnielsen05. The mythic rare moniker was nothing new as far as WotC was concerned because they already had that type of system in place. They simply marketed it to the masses and we all got giant ragers for the cool "new" cards with shiny new emblems on them and all agreed that we want to pay inordinate amounts of money for these cards. We as the public help drive up the prices by demand and consumption of the product.

The same was true even in the 90's but it is on a slightly larger scale now.

I'm not a fan of the mythics. However, it is worth mentioning that WotC does not sell cards to the average player. They sell cards to a distributor - who in turn sells to the guy who owns your local card shop. The high prices for mythics go toward keeping that shop in business.

Good rant! Just offering another perspective.

I don't seem to have a problem at all with the 8:1 ratio. It seems like I open a mythic rare in every other booster I buy. I have made more money on boosters than I have spent on them. I pulled Blightsteel Colossus and Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre in the only two packs I bought that day! I guess Lady Luck loves me... :)

I have to back up this rant.

I started playing MTG with Shards. I like collecting cards, so I started buying 1-2 boxes of each set as they came out. A thousand dollars or so later, my collection is filled with a hundred gaps from the mythics and rares I didn't pull and stacks of useless cards. I no longer buy cards unless I want to draft with friends.

I also began playing Magic obsessed with standard... and now I don't even bother keeping up with it because the cost is ridiculous.

MTG is a great game, but it could be better. I have 2 friends who play religiously and about 8 friends who play casually. None of them play standard specifically because of the cost. We all play EDH or draft or just decks w/ the cards we have accumulated.

If you balance the rarity curve out it would kill the secondary market (which I don't think WoTC should be concerned about) and attract new players. I never really got why one card can be opened 100 times versus another card once. I would still be excited to pull a Jace if it were worth $10 bucks considering my pack costed $4.

And I'm not saying all cards have to be equally rare. I just mean that you shouldn't have to buy 4 boxes of a set to maybe get 1 or 2 of the best/rarest cards.

I opened a box of M11 this month drafting with some friends... we pull SIX planeswalkers, and ZERO titans. There isn't just R1 and R2... there's Titans, PWs, Dual Lands, and the 19 Necrotic Plague s I have sitting around.

As a long time Magic player (started in mirage), I have seen the different artworks and while they do occur a bit more frequently than the mythics (i am including foil cards as well), i have to agree that the cost of standard has been increasing steadily over the years. What once cost me $140 for a great standard deck, now runs about 300-500 jsut for a playset of the latest best mythic rare (gideon, jace and tezzeret anyone?)The best way, i personally found, is to wait until the fat packs are out, get the booklet from someone, (or just go onto gatherer) and research the cards, make a deck, playtest it with proxies, then get the cards. I usually tend to make a deck that competes just as good as the high prices of the top standard decks, but at 1/5 the cost.All it takes is a little research, not following the crowd in decks, and being smart, cunning, and downright thrifty.Store-credit? you betcha!

I've read peoples' comments and appreciate the feedback.

Thank you to cnielsen05 for clarifying, I seemed to have missed MaRo's argument by a bit.

I would actually have to agree with this article. I started playing the game back when the first Mirrodin block came out. I could actually somewhat afford a good standard deck, while I didn't have top top deck, I still had enough for a Tier 2 deck. I quit right before Lorwyn came out and then got back in a couple weeks after Besieged came out. I was like, alright, I'll go look online, see what top deck is, and buy it..... Wait... It's THAT much? Eff that.

It almost made me NOT come back to the game. Tossing the word "Mythic" on them, it's like "Well, it's the same rarity as before... but now people think that it's rarer.... LET'S GET MORE MONEY!" Yea. I quit playing standard for the most part. I have a god awful RDW that rarely does the W. I now play EDH. :|.

I have been playing for a year, I started playing with the now infamous World Wake. I bought 1 Fat Pack, 2 boosters and 1 intro deck. Out of those 11 booster packs I got 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor . I remember after trading them away at $50 a piece watching them climb to $80 before I traded for my playset. I would never do that again, the price on Jace is ridiculous. He is a great card, but not worth $100.

I agree with this article, but WotC needs to be careful about how they fix this clear problem with standard. I hope they try and address this with the upcoming sets. If they were to "fix" the price of standard cards they would alienate players like me who already own ridiculously over priced cards. I believe they must solve the problem, but they must do it in a way that does not adversely effect the player, but it will hurt someone to fix the problem. Hopefully, the distributors and not the local card shops we who play magic depend upon to bring us a fun environment and community of players to compete with and/or against.

this article really says a lot for me i'm one of those new players that can't afford most of the cards i wanna buy i know how to make decks and have done so for my friends because they seem to either lack common sense or are just lazy bastards but i only play casual so im not to concerned with price on cards or having the a playset of primeval titans or anything. my concern is i have 2-3 friends who are also in the same boat i am but dont have as much respect for the game and when they construct there decks they use about %90 proxies which is like a big FU to everyone who actually cared and spent money for there decks and the worst part is they use proxied decks built for legacy tornements so if i ever try to play them with my newb battlecry control deck or any other deck i've built then i have no chance to even play its just turn 1-2 i lose everytime.

i don't think having mythic rares is really such a big proplem i think it just needs to be more manageable when you have a playset of one card running 200-300 dollars, thats just a bit to much but it also shows the play value of the card itself so for now we will have to play by wizards rules and hope for better prices in the sets to come.

Eh.. This implies that anyone would want all cards to be plentiful. This is silly.

First, if there is no limiting factor, there is no reason not to see everyone playing Tier 1 decks. Why is this bad? Well, first, it tends to discourage building other options. Building the alternative is good for a number of reasons, currently. If you run cards out of popularity in a creative manner, you may very likely work up a combo that is fairly competitive with much less cost. Is it likely to stand up to a tier 1? Probably not. If everyone could drum up a tier 1 deck, someone isn't doing their job right.

Right now, I can think of a number of tier 2(.5) decks that can be made for a single bill. And if you play them right, you'll still be competitive. Will you get wrecked by Valakuts and Caw/Darkblade? Good chance, yeah. The plus side? Not everyone can afford to run those. The better side? Not everyone who can afford it is as good as you may be. Knowing the formats, knowing the responses, the combos, and how each deck works is more important than just throwing money at it. Better cards have an effect, but if you don't know how to disrupt a combo deck, or use your own combos effectively and creatively, a $600 deck is useless.

So, if Jace was $5 a piece, who wouldn't play him in everything that even kinda wanted blue? Swords are easy to play in a variety of decks, and if they were a dime a playset, they just might see such use.

Caw/Darkblade may be the best deck in standard right now. And it's expensive to match. It still isn't insta-win. My Valakut runs less than half the cost of a real blade deck, and it's still pretty competitive. I'm not saying a $250 deck is on the cheap, but that's not what I've put into it, directly, either. Trades, credit, etc.

So right now, in big tournaments, you see a lot of Tier 1 behemoths that are definitely not hurting for their value. But in such a tournament, you see more than that number of other decks. So if you're not running a tier 1, you can actually stand a chance of getting to those matchups. If everyone could get a tier 1 for pocket change, everyone would run one, plain and simple, and then there's no balance. Then, instead of running up against a few Caw/Darkblades, every single matchup will be one.

For my part, I would love to be able to get the cards cheaper, but I don't want to see them cheaper, universally. It helps no one. It encourages copy-pasta, destroys the secondary market, weakens the metagame, etc.

As for proxies.. I know in the US, there's generally a 10 or so limit on proxied cards in many tournaments in vintage, but that in most tournaments beyond that, proxies are disallowed or very limited. But proxies in actual play are a good example of why measures taken to reduce cost-disparity actually hurts the game, not helps.

Allowing the option to proxy an expensive card simply destroys that card's value, and allows everyone to run it.

Maybe I don't understand your argument, or maybe you don't understand mine, but I don't see your point.

I'm not implying that I want all cards to be plentiful, I fully understand and appreciate the differences in rarities and the corresponding prices. What I'm saying is the gap has become too steep, and 'staple' mythic rares are pricing people out of standard. I specifically mentioned the cost gap between mythics and rares. Even at it's highest demand, Fauna Shaman was max $15. Some people would call $60.00 for a set expensive. Zendikar fetch-lands typically go for $10 a piece. Now if you move to a similar Mythic Staple, like Lotus Cobra , that you generally want as a 4-of, the price varies wildly because of the decreased supply. I bought my set when they were at their lowest value, $8-9, when they were a 4-of in Mythic Conscription, they were $30+

I disagree with your 'brewing cheaper decks' argument. For every time my lack of cards has forced me to be creative, it has forced me into a pigeon hole just as often. I would sure like to play blue in a lot of my brews, but I straight up can't. I can't justify playing inferior cards and so I'm limited to the other four colors of the spectrum.

Maybe our definition of 'competitive' is different, but my store is very competitive. Most players have their set of Jaces, Primeval Titans, etc. and on any given Friday the meta is about 90% 'best deck of the week'. I'm not upset at them for having the best cards. It's a tournament, they want to win.

I completely agree that understanding the meta, understanding the cards, playing well etc. are going to be worth more than a Jace will ever be in terms of winning a game, but in COMPETITIVE standard, both players are usually skilled in these areas. The deciding factor usually comes down to who has the better deck. Right now the better deck has 4x Jace in it. You say the tier 1 decks aren't "insta-win," but when they make up no less then 100% of the SCG Dallas/Ft. Worth top 8, they seem pretty good to me.

I don't know what tournaments you are referring to, but when there is a dominant tier 1 deck in standard, it tends to be about 60-80% of the field. You can't expect to run up against a 'few' caw-blades. You should expect to be playing against it all day. There's already lots of 'porting' going on. Changing the prices of cards won't change that.

I am very aware of the secondary market, and I don't think I made any claims that 'destroy' it. Sure, retroactive changes like printing more Jaces in the form of some 'event deck' would hurt the price of Jace and stores might suffer. Personally, I think they'll be fine. The rest of my suggestion is completely forward-looking, effecting how WoTC produces their print runs. This doesn't have any effect on the secondary market. I doubt it will affect them much at all.

I won't comment on the whole proxy thing, because I never suggested that.

I appreciate your response.

About Jace This is a good article Wizards did and to me it suggests they have no plans to ban Jace and it does apologize for printing him.

The Magic Show # 229 This article discusses Jace and why he is not worthy of a Ban.

Information on the number of Caw-Blade and other Tier 1 decks in standard. Too Much Information Marches On Caw-Blade only makes up 9.73% of the decks at large standard tournaments. Valakut is a little over 10%.

Caw-Blade is a dominate deck, but there are many Tier 2 decks that can beat Caw-Blade when played well. I played B/r Vampires last week against Caw-Blade and I Crushed Caw-Blade. And, because people with higher skill levels know this about Caw-Blade they don't always play Caw-Blade. I hope this clarifies that Caw-Blade and RUG DO NOT make up 60-80% of the Meta.

But, yes they are quite powerful decks, you simply need to know how to play against them and the other dominate deck in the Meta Valakut, which in the second article I have linked here it is argued that Valakut is the real problem card that should be banned.

I like the rant, I think it is just misplaced. WoTC wants to sell boxes which they do jace sold worldwake by himself and there were alway rarer rares if you look at an old scry mag they had them labled as r1 r2 etc as someone mentioned above they just put a lable on it now.

who do I think this need to point at well the secondary market certain large sites like the one that holds open events every week are to blame. they inflate the market price by buying up all the cards then controlling what those cards sell at to the point were most stores now base thier prices off what said site sets. they cant then under sell the singles they get because then they would not be able to keep things in stock because people wont sell to them. so really what it boils down to are major sites buying out the formats.

example- if a store sells jace for $70 the mark up on singles is like 40-50% so they buy at 30-35. now when a major site is buying at $65 noone will then sell to the store so they will never gain new inventory.

Hmmm I know what you mean about cards getting way out of hand with their prices. Even for a mediocre deck, your still paying next to $100's on. My own FNM deck is estimated at $133. $40 of that is just on 4 cards! 2 thruns and 2 green suns. The deck only has 4 commons int the whole thing, and they are llanowar elves. I love that deck to death, but when m12 comes out, i lose half of my deck and have to start up again. this is aggrivating for me. ive sunken so much money into magic its rediculous, and i only just started playing standard when M11 came out.

But those mythics are some of the things that really power my deck. Thrun is a must now adays with the current meta. thats why im going to go and spend 20 dollars on only 2 cards. if i get planeswalkers im normally trading them away to get a few rares in exchange.

If wizards upped their stats to 1 in 4 for mythics, that would be great, but then that is the magic in opening up a magic booster pack. you never know what your gunna get.

Honestly though, it doesnt matter if they print it in mythic or not, if its powerful and players know it, they will shell out money for it, or for boosters hoping to get it. im not really saying much. I guess just build decks on here. build and build and build, and test and test and test. when you come to a conclusion as to what deck you want, go ahead and by those cards, but for now, im going to buy boosters and hope for the best and build around what i get. if i need additional cards, ill trade for them, or buy them. thats the world we live in. go out and live in it.

a tier one deck does not always make up 60-80% of the meta, but tier 1 cards do.

Jace was in 80-90% of the top performing decks in the last PTQ. RUG valakut only has blue in it for a few cards and Jace is one of them.

Mythics are good and bad for the game. IMPO mostly bad. Jace was just a bad design from the beginning. Noone can defend that Jace is well designed and not overpowered

I agree, but I disagree with people who claim he needs to be banned. He is overpowered, but not ban worthy.

agree for now. I don't think enough time has past to make the determination of the long term effects of Jace in eternal formats. It is not a broken card but it is overused. If that level of use continues for years in eternal formats, it should maybe be considered for restricted lists.

I do agree with part of your point. There are numerous deck types that simply can not function without big bucks spent on mythics and rares. But there are tons that don't need them.

For instance, the Liquimetal Coating control deck doesn't need any rares to run, one of my buddies came in the top 5 at our FNM with it.

There are also some cards which seem to be higher priced than their actual play value. Sword of Feast and Famine for instance seems to be more a name drop than anything. Sure the untap all lands is good and all but there's only some much you can do with that and you oppenent would do their best to block that sucker.

Stop bitching start brewing - comment courtesy Yo! mtg taps xD

@squire1 jace is not the power house in legacy as he is in standard because theres a 10,000 deep card pool, so, I don't think he'll see any type of ban/restriction there.

more than 10,000 actually. I only play legacy and vintage. It is at least as good a 4 drop as Counterspell is a 2 drop for blue.

I could see it restricted. It is a no brainer add to decks

your right but for the sake of argument jsut saying 10,000 seemed fair. I mostly play legacy because I sold off my power and dabble in standard because of friends.

jace shows up as a two or one of in a lot of decks but beside trinistax I cant think of another deck that runs a full set and in that match i'd rather see him hit the board then stax.

he's a good card don't get me wrong he just doesn't have the same effect on legacy he does on standard.

**you're

Have people thought of another solution for the Standard Format? I was thinking that as we're talking standard here why not actually go standard in this format. Not on card type (e.g. planeswalker). I mean standard in the sense of standardising the rarity (M/R, U, C) that can be played in a deck. To bring it in line with what we buy off the counter in a booster. This has 1 rare or mythic, 3 uncommon and the rest are commons (with occasional foil). Why not apply that principle to the Standard Format. It seems very fair to me.

The exact amount of cards per rarity type can be tweaked ofcourse, but like 2 mythic 2-6 rare, 12 uncommon and rest commons seems sorta right, wouldn't it?

This shouldn't affect the demand of the most powerfull cards too much, as people still want to collect them mythics and rares that they find powerfull. However, it should even the playing field (a concern of many in a Game as Magic which thrives on new blood) and open up a whole new world of competitive and creative decksbuilding.

Maybe this is nothing new and discussed often..in that case soz.. just my 2cents.

I have no problem with mythics as they stand. Mostly because I get lucky, and every 3 of 4 packs I open have a mythic in them. Mostly the ones that end up in the $5-20 category, but Hey, my luck just means I'm a hell of a lot more likely to get the goods.

That said, I mostly play In Legacy, so even with my mythics, I'm not the power player I would be on the standard scene.

All I can say about mythics in the end is:"He who has the most money has the biggest toys, but those toys get old fast."