Jace dunks on the Banned/Restricted List
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kabrazell
19 April 2011
3453 views
19 April 2011
3453 views
Editors note - yeah um...I suck at photoshop for the record, sorry about the image.
~squire1
I hate Kobe Bryant. Being a Denver Nuggets fan automatically puts him on the black list, and he doesnt have the strongest track record here in Colorado. Still, I respect him as a player. Theres no denying that hes as good as it gets. If by some cosmic mishap he were traded to the Nugs Im sure we could put our differences aside . for basketball
you monster.
Theres been a little bit of a fuss about the Kobe of magic following the SCG Dallas/Ft. Worth Open. 32 copies of Jace, the Mindsculptor could be found in the top 8. I think you can do the math. While Jace had gotten his fair share of criticism before the event, this specific performance seems to have opened the floodgates of players calling for his resignation from standard. The arguments seem valid; no one likes to play a format warped by one card, and Jace has proven to be insurmountably good. Maybe he should start packing up his Preordains and see if he can crash on Gideon Juras couch for a while.
Last time I spoke a little about how mythic rares are pricing people out of standard. Jace is certainly the main offender there. Banning him might lower the barrier of entry. Of course those players who have scraped together 4 Jaces would be upset with the cards sudden loss in value.
Should Jace be banned?
In a vacuum, the card is on a completely different power level than the rest of standard. Try playing another blue four-drop at your next standard FNM. You and your opponent can share a laugh before you sign the match slip.
GO GO GADGET Conundrum Sphinx !!! 11.
Format warping? Check. I would even probably be okay with Jace he were merely format warping. If the meta devolved into Jace and Hate Jace, thatd be okay, but the Hate Jace is so bad, it doesnt even stand a chance! What good answers are there to Jace right now? Phyrexian Revoker? Vampire Hexmage?? Sometimes Lightning Bolt??? Not good enough. Unfortunately, the competitive magic scene has come to the very scary realization that the best answers to Jace look more like this: Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, Jace, the Mind Scupltor. Welcome to the Jace orgy! Please leave your shoes by the door!
Will Jace be banned?
The primary issue with a Jace-ban is the timing. The next Banned/Restricted list update doesnt occur until July-ish, with Zendikar block rotating three months later. Seems silly. The only way around this would be an emergency banning, and I dont think well be going to Code Red any time soon. WoTC is reluctant to hit that particular big red button. The current panic will likely be quelled by the prospect of Answers in the next set. Right now would also just be a bad time to ban. Jace shares standard with another giant (literally!) who would just take his place. If Jace is Kobe, Primeval Titan is LeBron. In other words, the banning wouldnt really get us anywhere.
Wizards also has a lot riding on Jace. Hes a planeswalker, a flagship of the game. Theres a difference between banning a one-mana equipment (Skullclamp) and Mr. Magic, himself.
Looks like were stuck with him. I for one will be sticking to limited for a while. But Im not upset at Kobe, err... Jace. Its not his fault hes awesome. Im actually glad WoTC printed such a powerful, versatile planeswalker. I just wish hed stop stinking up my standard. No hard feelings though, maybe someday in the future, he can play on my team.
- kabrazell
Additional reading:
About Jace by Tom LaPille
The Magic Show #229 - Ban Jace, the Mind Sculptor? by Evan Erwin
Jace T. Mind Sculptor Will You Please Go Now! by mixedknuts
Magic TV: Show #85 GPDFW, Jace and more by Magic TV
theemptyquiver says... #2
I could see Jace getting a "restricted" moniker down the road. That doesn't seem too far fetched.
Once it is out of standard, what will people do with their Jace x4 set? Sell them? Keep them?
My guess is that the hardcore standard players may sell, to increase their loadout for newer sets.
I don't think it would be surprising to see a drop in price, not a huge amount, but a scaled back price than $100+ each.
Or...not. I'm curious to see what happens.
April 20, 2011 1:32 a.m.
π_is_the_word says... #3
I'm holding onto my playset. They will drop to a maximum of $50, but I'm hopeful they will stabilize at something like $70 or my personal hope of $80 post rotation. I have about 70-80 invested in mine.
The article is great, but I wish you had spent a little bit more time elaborating on Primeval Titan and his evil compadre Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle . These two do need a ban because, unlike JTMS these evil do-ers are stomping out the Aggressive decks, which have the potential to compete with Jace decks.
April 20, 2011 9:46 a.m.
I like the article, I have written one kinda similar, except it doesn't focus so much on the banning of ace. Please read it, Thanks! -max
April 20, 2011 11:32 a.m.
He's good, yes, but killable. Would standard be healthier without him? Maybe, but something else would just take his place.
Just because he rotates doesn't mean he's not still ridiculous. Take a look at the top extended decks and tell me that he's not in most of them as well... People do play extended and thus he will still be worth a truckload of money.
April 20, 2011 5:54 p.m.
matrix2022 says... #6
@Mpz5: Oh yeah, he's definitely not going away in other formats. I do expect him to drop in price, obviously not much at first, and probably not much for quite some time. But it would definitely be nice to be able to pick some up one day to stir stuff up in our casual group. >:)
April 20, 2011 5:59 p.m.
DeckBuilder345 says... #7
I am pretty sure Jace's mad leaps and big jumps are going to be grounded in a few short months when the refs call a permanent technical foul and disbar him from ever playing in the league(standard) again. Until that day... he will continue to be OP'ed and waaaaaaay to expensive.
April 21, 2011 12:02 p.m.
π_is_the_word says... #8
@DeckBuilder345 you should read the article which was linked at the bottom of this article: TheMagicShow #229 -Ban Jace, the Mind Sculptor?
This article and the Magicshow article both agree that Jace won't get banned. He is good, but he is too important to the image of MTG and WotC for him to get banned. And, he is going out of standard soon, so there is no point to banning him now.
Keep in mind, Aggressive decks are very competitive against all the Jace decks. The reason we aren't seeing them in top 8 of major tournaments is Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle . Valakut decks are just faster than aggressive decks, but Valakut decks lose to Jace decks. So, Aggressive decks just can't compete when they only have a small advantage against Jace decks and then they lose to the Valakut decks.
April 21, 2011 12:27 p.m.
@squire1 I really like the image. It's better than I expected.
Thanks everyone for the feedback! Hope you liked the article.
April 21, 2011 10:14 p.m.
π_is_the_word says... #10
My favorite new card is: Beast Within, Kills Jace at instant speed for 2G!
April 21, 2011 11:11 p.m.
If having Jace rotate is why WotC isn't banning him, that all well and good. If he comes back in M12, then WotC is clueless.
PS Wouldn't a Memoricide shut down a Jace deck?
April 24, 2011 1:55 a.m.
WotC will not reprint Jace 2.0 - It would just be an awful idea.
WotC KNOWS that Jace is, by far, the strongest card printed in years. They know he winds up in over half of the decks seen on Top 8 lists. I don't think they'd destroy Magic by keeping him around. Yeah, they would arguably sell more packs if they DID reprint Jace 2.0, but he's too good to keep around. I think, come September 30, I'll never have to see him in Standard again.
April 24, 2011 5:32 p.m.
π_is_the_word says... #14
@dude1818 No. "Jace decks" only use Jace to get themselves an advantage, they do not use him to win the game. This is the main reason Jace will not get banned, he is over powered, but he does not win games. He just gives the controller a very big advantage towards winning the game.
April 24, 2011 8:01 p.m.
Jace gives someone the ability to win a game, which is essentially the same as saying "Jace wins games". This is why Jace decks consistently win PTQs and wind up on Top 8's from all matters of tournaments.
That's like saying my Lightning Bolt wins games after dropping 2 Pyromancer's Ascensions.
Read what you said again.
April 24, 2011 8:30 p.m.
π_is_the_word says... #16
Well, it is a subtle distinction, but a distinction none the less. You don't -12 with Jace, you bounce the opposing creatures, or draw into your win condition and, prevent your opponent from drawing something that could help your opponent.
April 24, 2011 9:56 p.m.
Removing all of the Jaces from my opponent's Jace deck may not cripple their deck, but it will certainly hurt. It wouldn't remove their wincon, but it would eliminate their advantage. Right?
April 24, 2011 10:07 p.m.
π_is_the_word says... #18
Correct. It is very effective especially if you are playing Jace as well.
April 24, 2011 10:19 p.m.
You also have to resolve said memoricide and jace decks love their counterspells so good luck with that one.
Jace does win Games. He gives you amazing card advantage and filter ability, he gives you board presence, he gives you information and fate sealing, and he also is a win con if the opponent leaves him alone too long. It's a dream for the control player to have 1 card that does all of that.
There is no doubt or debate, the card singlehandedly wins games with little support.
But... he's still killable and thus not overly broken. Cards that get banned are cards like Fastbond or Skullclamp . Those cards essentially change the core rules of the game which are:
You may play 1 land a turn (Fastbond or Black Lotus shatter this idea), you may draw 1 card a turn (Skullclamp and Ancestral Recall are just way too cheap to draw 2 or 3 cards), You may take only 1 turn before the opponent gets a turn. (Time Walk is WAY too cheap for that rule breakage)
Jace does not do these things; he's just a solid card. I would be surprised, however, if they reprinted him because he's a card that defines standard and when standard cycles, Magic tends to want it to morph a bit.
April 24, 2011 11:29 p.m.
π_is_the_word says... #20
@Mpz5 I agree with you completely. And you don't have to design decks to beat him, unlike with Disciple of the Vault and Arcbound Ravager .
April 25, 2011 12:55 a.m.
divinecrusader_04 says... #21
TMS is pain in the * i too got a share of this craziness when he hits the table....ta-da!! and there you go...the bad thing is i got 4 of this!! and WOAH!!! talking to myself"why!? why did i buy you and did not wait for you to be in legacy!!" oh well there goes my money~ haha wotc sometimes i wanna kill yah all =.=...... but i agree with you...TMS = IMBA!! XD
June 26, 2011 11:38 a.m.
π_is_the_word says... #24
I went and bought some WWK packs at my local store last week, 2nd pack I got JTMS!
I also traded for another one at only $53 trade value. And now he is back up to $65!
matrix2022 says... #1
I agree with several of your points, especially concerning the timing of it all. He's going to rotate out in a few months anyways, so might as well let him have his time in the spotlight, especially given all the hardworking individuals who dropped the cash to get their playsets.
And yes, he definitely has warped the format, but to a degree. If it was only one kind of deck that ran him successfully, then yeah, bring on the schwacking. But since you can have multiple deck types that all do different things built around him, I can see why WoTC would have a hard time swallowing that pill.
Just my two cents. :D
April 20, 2011 12:25 a.m.