Burkek & KrazyCaley's Standard Analysis - Bloodhall and 5CC
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burkek
13 December 2011
1959 views
Standard meta-analysis:
13 December 2011
1959 views
Standard meta-analysis:
Decks from invitational to watch out for:
R/b Bloodhall and Five Color Control
Notes from KrazyCaley in italics.
R/B Bloodhall:
This deck is beautiful. This is in my opinion an improved rdw. It takes the key cards in the rdw deck and adds a lot of other powerful cards to replace the rest, such as Olivia Voldaren. This deck was, in my opinion, one of the best innovations that came out of the invitational, and the best innovation for standard.
I liked this deck when I first ran into it yesterday. This deck looked at the current RDW and, like me, was dissatisfied with it. Thus, everything in the original RDW that sucked was taken out and replaced with slightly bigger, MUCH nastier stuff. The reliance on Chandra's Phoenix and more and better burn spells, plus of course Shrine of Burning Rage and the namesake Stensia Bloodhall make this a MUCH more powerful deck against control and midrange decks while sacrificing just a little speed.
Here is the deck: R/B bloodhall
Strengths:
The short answer to this is the whole deck, but I will do a more detailed analysis anyways.
This deck is particularly good against slow-developing control decks such as Solar Flare, U/B Control, U/W Gideon control, and the like.
Batterskull: This is a recurring artifact that has life link and vigilance, what is there not to like?
The problem with the original RDW is that removal of any kind just kills it dead. Batterskull is one of many cards that tries to fix the problem by including more effects that are resistant to removal (and in this case, counterspells as well.
Shrine of Burning Rage: Beats control, and is a major factor in every other match up. This card is one of the corner stones to any deck that runs it.
This deck makes original RDW go, and it is no different here. This card is still the most dangerous one present in the deck.
Chandra's Phoenix: This card is a recurring shock, dealing 2 damage a turn. It is a good tempo and very difficult to kill permanently. This card is another key player taken over from rdw directly.
Olivia Voldaren: The card that has been getting so much press, this card is incredibly powerful. This card is a game winner and it will contribute significantly to your deck's damage output.
This is the creature the deck relies on against other midrange creature-based decks. It can certainly be dangerous if left alive, but is generally too vulnerable.
Koth of the Hammer: Another very powerful card. This card provides an additional 4 damage a turn and can eventually allow you to turn all your untapped mountains to become Geistflames every turn. This card overall will add a lot of damage to your deck.
Notice how I cannot now just dismiss this card as "the obvious counterspell target." In RDW decks that run it, you could save your counters for this because nothing else short of the shrine would be particularly threatening. Now there are LOTS of threats.
Volt Charge: proliferates and bolts, its pretty good in a deck with koth, Olivia, shrine, and stromkirk.
Slagstorm: bye aggro.
This deck wishes Volcanic Fallout was still around so that Olivia Voldaren wouldn't die to their board-sweeper.
Devil's Play: A powerful late game card that can almost be viewed as a win condition.
Fireball-du-jour. Great because it comes back, continuing with the recursion theme.
Stensia Bloodhall: This card means you will never run out of burn. You get an over-costed shock every turn while this is in play.
I hate to see this card as a control player. I can have total control of the board and still die to this thing. Yet another reason to run Ghost Quarter, as if you didn't have enough.
The sideboard is full of great answers also, containing cards such as Doom Blade, witchbane orb, and Manic Vandal.
Overall this deck is powerful throughout the entire game. Its midgame plan is probably the strongest point for this deck, but it will perform well in late game regardless. It has a lot of the most powerful cards in the format and it allows for a lot of damage to win before the end game ever occurs.
Weaknesses:
This deck has the same weaknesses as RDW, at least on a basic level. Destroy their shrine and batterskull and kill their creatures and they will probably be left helpless, but you still need to worry about koth and Stensia Bloodhall even then.
Ironically, this midrange deck is, I would say, probably weakest against OTHER midrange decks. This deck's paranoia about removal serves it well against control, and its own suite of answers helps it out against the yet-more-aggressive decks, but it definitely sacrifices something against other midrange decks, such as Wolf Run or humans. This deck has no real answers to a Titan overwhelm backed by Kessig Wolf Run, and a plausibly bad draw might leave it vulnerable to that deck's Inkmoth Nexus. The matchup against humans will depend on how much can be netted by Slagstorm, and whether or not Olivia Voldaren will stay on the board. If Slagstorm can't be used at an efficient level, and if Olivia goes away, humans wipe the floor with this deck simply because their midrange is better than Bloodhall's, if more vulnerable to other decks.
Ghost Quarter: for Stensia Bloodhall
Slagstorm: It may not permanently kill Chandra's phoenix or Olivia (since she is actually a 6 drop disguised as a 4 drop), but it will at least potentially clear most of the board.
Slagstorm will only buy you time.
Day of Judgment: it kills all their creatures; it is a good bet against this deck.
Even Day will only buy you time.
Oblivion Ring: The BEST card to have against this deck, it gets rid of koths, phoenixes, and shrines. This card is absolutely great in its versatility in this match up.
Oblivion Ring, as ever, is incredibly good against this deck. It's incredibly good against MOST decks, but ESPECIALLY one that relies so much on removal resistance. Bring 4x.
Ancient Grudge: Very useful against shrines
Surgical Extraction: Good against the phoenixes.
So to summarize, solar flare is a really hard matchup, but almost no other deck has access to most of your weaknesses, so I think this deck is pretty well positioned in this meta, particularly if someone finds a way for it to better play around solar flare.
I've seen about 4 or 5 or so Solar Flare vs. Bloodhall matchups, and Bloodhall won all but one of them. The main problem tends to be Bloodhall itself. A well-timed Olivia Voldaren can also render the usual Sun Titan fetching Phantasmal Image copying Sun Titan ad infinitum play very dangerous for the Flare player. Solar Flare WILL win if it survives, but that is a very big if.
5 Color Control
5 color control was an innovation played by Gerry Thompson to great effect, only losing with it twice in the whole tournament (both times to the deck that eventually won 2nd). A quick side note, Adam played the illusions deck he was running amazingly; doing every single choice perfectly and overall was an incredible, incredible player. But Gerry Thompson's 5 color deck featured so much innovation, it was incredible. It is a deck that I would look for in the future also; as it was just such an interesting deck list it will promote a lot of interest.
I LOVE this deck. This is the kind of deckbuilding mad science that I appreciate greatly.
Ok so here is the list:
Strengths:
Pristine Talisman: It ramps, it negates moorland haunts, and it is able to be brought back by sun titan, making it quite a good card in a meta-game full of u/w illusions.
This card alone can single-handedly forestall defeat at the hands of an aggro deck.
Oblivion Ring: This card removes everything relevant except a couple hexproof creatures.
Best white card in standard.
Pacifism: after play testing, apparently it was determined that the 4th oblivion ring as a pacifism made the most sense, there are a lot more creature threats than non-creature threats. Still, it is a very interesting choice.
This makes complete sense to me. The reason is that Sun Titan, when fetching this card, allows it to be hooked onto creatures that have hexproof, since they were not cast, and therefore do not target! And Thrun, the Last Troll plus Geist of Saint Traft make for some very good reasons to run a Pacifism to be fetched out of the graveyard.
Ratchet Bomb: again this destroys u/w illusions, which has no creature with higher cmc than 3, and it often goes off for 0 to kill any flipped card as well as the moorland haunt tokens. Then it's brought back with sun titan for more fun later.
This card is lights-out for a lot of decks, actually.
Sun Titan: This card's ability is perfect for this deck. With so many low cmc permanents, this card's utility is very difficult to match in any format when it is used in this deck.
The deck is built around this card. If you're going to Memoricide something, Memoricide this.
Phantasmal Image: kills legendaries (including Geist of Saint Traft and Thrun, the Last Troll) as well as can double up and give you 2 sun titans for the price of 1.
Keeping the classic Solar Flare play in effect.
Blue Sun's Zenith: Late game, this draws you enough cards to flat out win. It's hard to beat an opponent who plays control and just got to draw 4 cards in a single turn.
This card makes more sense than Think Twice, etc. for this deck, since it can afford to wait.
Desperate Ravings: Quickly becoming the format's card draw of choice.
Mana Leak + Dissipate: COUNTER MAGIC!
Gut Shot: it deals with all the pesky 1 toughness things in the format, such as stromkirk noble, tokens from moorland haunt, and any illusion.
And Inkmoth Nexus of course.
Elsh Norn, Grand Cenobite: The “cruel ultimatum” of the standard format. This card will win you the game against almost any deck.
It's not QUITE as decisive as Cruel Ultimatum since it can be killed, returning everything to normal. Still, either she dies, or you do.
Day of Judgment: One of the best boards clears ever printed.
Ponder; a card draw so good it's banned in one format and restricted in another.
Unburial Rites; cheaper sun titans and elesh norns.
And it comes back.
Also the sideboard is full of good stuff such as Ancient Grudge, Nihil Spellbomb, and Timely Reinforcements to help cover any holes already in this deck.
The deck has an answer for more or less everything. Thanks, 5-color!
Weaknesses: For the first time, I have to say I have no idea. It is definitely a beatable deck, but I cannot think of any particular matchup where it is at a severe disadvantage. As I said, it lost twice during the tournament to an incredibly well played u/w illusions deck, but it beat a lot more on the way to finals. The biggest think I can think of is that if you take out its sun titans and elsh norn, then the only creature left to kill you is phantasmal image. Also, by take out, I mean exile so that unburial rites aren't use able. Any input here would be much appreciated. I might revisit this deck later if it continues to perform well with more information on it, but for now I am still looking at all the tech in this deck and wondering, is there a way to beat this deck consistently in the current meta?
If you can resolve Memoricide against it or otherwise get rid of Sun Titan as a threat, you will kill it. Also, a deck that has an answer for everything is less likely to have the RIGHT answer- this tends to make it vulnerable against decks that can swarm it quickly enough, though that will depend on the draws of the five color deck.
Preordain does not exist in standard, so its not really a relevant point... but ok I can see your logic there. I actually prefer ponder in general, just because it lets me see an additional card, but its a very debatable point.
December 13, 2011 4:55 p.m.
mozerdozer says... #3
I still don't understand why they chose Ravings over Think Twice. They net you the same card advantage and there are very few relevant graveyard cards in his deck. It would make much more sense if he had 2 Snapcasters. If he did, everything in his graveyard would be relevant.
December 13, 2011 5:05 p.m.
Really? That makes total sense to me. It's cheaper and you can use it twice. You could end up pitching a creature for unburial, an unburial to use at a better cost or another ravings, or if it helps you get the Titan out then the Titan can reanimate the rest of the crap you discarded. This card is a great choice and makes liliana even lamer than she already was since the self discard was the only good thing about her
December 13, 2011 6:59 p.m.
in theory you get to refresh your hand, which is better than drawing a single card. You are supposed to use it when you dont mind discarding a card, or you need an answer badly enough to risk it. This deck runs so many different spells, that additional digging for the extra card is often woth it. Thats the best I can figure at least.
December 13, 2011 6:59 p.m.
squire1: lilliana isnt awful at all. She will often provide complete control of the board for an extended period of time. She is actually used in so many decks in legacy, standard, and modern for a reason.
December 13, 2011 7:03 p.m.
She's just another target to control player. And not even close to a stumbling block for combo. Aggro maybe has problems with her because she slows tempo and makes aggro live in the top deck world.
December 13, 2011 7:08 p.m.
aggro and control both have a difficult time dealing with her when she hits the field. However I agree on combo, but 2/3 isnt bad.
December 13, 2011 8:32 p.m.
platinum_demon says... #9
Honestly, I think the best way to trip up 5 color control would be to simply deny them access to their five colors. Whether this would be done through something like Liquimetal Coating and some artifact hate, ramping into a Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger , or some other method, if they can't get the colors they need, they're screwed.If you can keep them down to one source of white mana for even one or two turns, that could win you the game, keeping them from getting out their Sun Titan or Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite .
December 13, 2011 10:33 p.m.
The problem with the liquimetal coating is it is actually not as reliable as I would like. If you could play 8 liquimetal coatings, it would be a tournament deck. But you can't so... I don't think its quite consistent enough. Also, after play testing it a few times, its manabase some how seems more stable than solar flare. I don't understand that thats even possible, but I rarely have found mana color to be a big problem with that deck >.>
December 13, 2011 10:46 p.m.
platinum_demon says... #11
Oh, also, I noticed that 5 color control is lacking in enchantment removal, so running Nevermore might be one of your best bets for preventing that Sun Titan from hitting the field. Of course, then you would have to worry about Oblivion Ring ], but even then it would be keeping one more of YOUR threats safe...
I might actually just recommend black with a lot of removal as a good answer to this... They only have one Unburial Rites , so if you can kill more threats than they can bring out, you're safe. Victim of Night , Doom Blade , and Go for the Throat ALL work against EVERY creature in this deck, so they would all be good choices, and you'd be in VERY good stead if you could get out a Sheoldred, Whispering One and keep it safe.
That's all I've got for now. I might come back later with more.
December 13, 2011 11:06 p.m.
ArkhangelAzrael says... #12
Just a little rant, but why is it 5 color if there is no green on the deck? =P
On to a more constructive comment, maybe W/U token can have a chance against 5 color?
December 13, 2011 11:08 p.m.
The thing about all that removal is they will have plenty of mana up to counter your spells by the time they play them. Also oblivion ring definitely counters the odd enchantment when it appears, and the reason that there is no enchantment removal is that enchantments do not have a big presence in the meta-game as major threats. While I would tend to agree with you about having more black removal in most decks, I am not sure this deck would be the best deck to use it against.
December 13, 2011 11:08 p.m.
@Batcanada its a 4 color deck that has the ability to use ancient grudge as the 5th color. However, the deck's creator called it 5 color control, so the name stands. And a w/u token deck stands a poor chance if it only has tokens. A ratchet bomb for 0 would destroy every token on the field. You would have to be racing a 2 mana artifact in a deck with lots of draws and sun titan, I think it would lead to some trouble. That being said, the w/u illusions deck is powerful enough that it is possible to break through the control of this deck and beat it on occasion, but so far it generally doesn't based on records. Though, there are not really enough games for that to be statistically significant yet.
December 13, 2011 11:12 p.m.
ArkhangelAzrael says... #15
Just kidding on the 5 color thing, never meant to offend. Sorry if it sounded like it.
Well, the deck only runs one or two hatchets, so maybe Geist-Honored Monk and Geist of Saint Traft could aggro it before any major threats hit the field? They could also run some significant controls and counters.
December 13, 2011 11:17 p.m.
You are almost describing the U/W illusions deck that keeps on winning everything, lol. Sorry if I sound serious in my posts, but really I rarely to never take offense at anything like this. There was no problem there and I am sorry if I made it sound like a big deal. To be honest I am still kind of skeptical about that label myself, even if it is the official one.
Anyways, yes the deck will sometimes break through, but it will generally at the very least be a pretty close game.
December 13, 2011 11:23 p.m.
KrazyCaley says... #17
I miss old LOR-ALA 5 color control. Vivid Lands, Cruel Ultimatum, and Cryptic Command. Those were the DAYS, man. You know, come to think of it, the last time I really enjoyed the standard environment was during Alara's cycle. That was a really well-designed set.
December 13, 2011 11:24 p.m.
ArkhangelAzrael says... #18
Lol, I though that the monk and the geist where used in token decks, and illusions ran grand architect and wurmcoil =P need to update myself. Thanks for the quick answers!
December 13, 2011 11:26 p.m.
Monk is used in tokens, but geist is used in almost every deck that has the colors to run it and is not a control deck.
Yeah and I wish I had been more into magic during lorwyn and alara than I was, but I still have some cards from those sets... I have been playing very off and on since 7th edition, but I didn't really start playing seriously until scars.
December 13, 2011 11:32 p.m.
KrazyCaley says... #20
Believe it or not, a really fun set to draft was Limited/4th Edition. It was wildly imbalanced, and the most random cards were draft bombs - Circle of Protection: Red would win you drafts.
December 14, 2011 12:17 a.m.
KorApprentice says... #21
Stensia Bloodhall is the best land ever printed! Fastbond + Crucible of Worlds + Zuran Orb , duh.
December 14, 2011 5:51 p.m.
lol, Stensia Bloodhall's abillity to pick off plainswalkers as well as deal damage is actually quite nice. I just played this deck against U/B control online and it performed quite awesomely. I really like how the deck plays and how consistently powerful it is.
December 14, 2011 6:22 p.m.
KrazyCaley says... #23
I played it from U/B's perspective and it smoked me thanks to the Bloodhall itself. Good deck.
December 14, 2011 6:31 p.m.
Note, after playtesting I think Wolf Run steamrolls this deck between its access to titans and trees.
December 15, 2011 9:03 a.m.
Minousmancer says... #25
Curious, what do you think on my take on this Bloodhall concept? Here is mine deck:olivias-bloodhall.
mozerdozer says... #1
The article was very informative but I did not like one thing:
You describe Ponder as very good draw and it is. However, it's superiority to Preordain arguably only comes when fetchlands exist. Because Fetchlands do not exist in standard, Preordain would arguably be better. This might not be the case in this deck because arguably each and every card is a threat. But if a combo deck did exist in current standard and preordain did as well, I'd go with Preordain. /end rant. (I came into MTG when Preordain was the card of choice).
I especially liked the part of Stensia since that deck is destroying my mono red currently. It has forced me to but Dismember in the side in order to deal with Olivia since she gets out of burn range fast. I would consider shifting to Bloodhall but the Batterskulls and Olivia make it considerably more expensive than my Mono Red.
December 13, 2011 4:42 p.m.