Chavest Mythic Rare Voting
Community Set
squire1
10 March 2011
2659 views
10 March 2011
2659 views
Greetings! We had a lot of great submissions and we thank you all for your submissions. Below you will find the ones that made it through the grinder. Time to vote on the Gold rares of this set. Please place for your favorite. Please read through all of the cards and suggestions for changes and all of the guidelines for voting. Thank you for all of the great participation people, keep it up.
Important announcement
††In the case of any ties, the design team will decide upon the winner.
Chavest Multicolor Mythic Rare Finalists
| ##The Chief Arbiter,Defender of Chavest by Yourman | |
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###Concerns and suggestions by the design team
So the design team actually had a bit to say here. First, challenge was for the leader of Chavest. The next challenge is for judges. It is suggested that the type be changed to Angel Demon. Secondly, because of power issues it was also suggested as a possibility that "X" be changed to "XX". Or that it be changed to a 0/0. Or that you lose a life for each creature destroyed by its ability. Thirdly we worried about the counters. Since wither is in the set, it could get confusing with too many counters. One member suggested, "Maybe instead of having this be an X spell with +1/+1 counters, you just have to sacrifice some lands or something for the ability" to avoid the issue. It was also suggested that defender be removed for flavor reasons. |
| ##Suzaku, Vermillion Celestial by Jarrod_0067 | |
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###Concerns and suggestions by the design team
Design team really liked this as is. Thought that it was a really creative use of Cleave. |
| ## Soul of Unending Justice by hammert1m3 | |
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###Concerns and suggestions by the design team
All concerns that we had with this card were in regards to the recursion mechanic. Some members of the design team felt that it was overcosted and made it underpowered for a mythic. One member suggested that it should have 'sac a land' instead of 'sac a creature' for flavor reasons. |
| ##Oraxus, Blood Moon Avenger by exarkun809 | |
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###Concerns and suggestions by the design team
Power issues were the real concern here. Suggested rewording "Whenever a land would be put into a graveyard from the battlefield, that land's controller sacrifices a creature instead. Whenever a creature would be put into a graveyard from the battlefield, that creature's controller sacrifices a land instead". Wizard subtype is not really in the shard flavor either. |
| ##Maraketh, Lord of Chavest by awesomusprime | |
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###Concerns and suggestions by the design team
First suggestion for this one was to reduce the Cleave value. It just felt like too much. It was also suggested that Firststike be added. All members also agreed that the wording needed to be reworked. Suggestion would be something like "if black was spent it gains deathtouch, if white..." |
| ##Laron, Prophet of Chav by MagnorCriol | |
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###Concerns and suggestions by the design team
It felt a little overpowered. It was suggested that the cost increase or that the abilities are gain 2 life, creature gets -1/-1, and it deals 1 damage to target. From a more logistical standpoint, it seemed like the red and black were both creature control. It may be better if the red ability could only target players. |
| ##Kzalena, the Merciless by Unas | |
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###Concerns and suggestions by the design team
Deathtouch does not work here, or its a Wrath of God every turn. Other suggestions to power fix were to "make it one damage to limit lifelink", increase cost, and make it exile a creature instead of sac. |
| ##Kel ,The Purifier by Balthasar | |
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###Concerns and suggestions by the design team
It might be confusing for some players to have an ability both dealing damage and losing life when one of those matters for life gain. I'd maybe even suggest having all players lose three life, having no life gain, and having all players sacrifice a land. Flavor-wise, are we sure this is human? |
| ##Iphael, the Living Pyre by MagnorCriol | |
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###Concerns and suggestions by the design team
We felt that it may be overpowered. Most agreed that haste should go away. It was suggested the cost be RRWWBB so that the effects are less variable, but this is complicated to fix. As stated by one member, "If you pay RRRWB is is a Healing Salve, Inferno, and a bitchin 5/4." |
| ##Conteret the Conquerer by Yourman | |
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###Concerns and suggestions by the design team
Change in creature type seemed to be overall a suggestion. We just did not think that a Viashino Barbarian seemed to be right for the leader of the shard. It was suggested that the cost be change to be less red heavy. It was also suggested that it be only combat damage that triggers the ability, otherwise with cleave it steals a land every turn no matter what. That or the ability needs a cost with it, like pay some amount of mana or sac a land Also it was suggested that haste be taken off and the p/t decreased. |
Information about Chavest
Chavest is scrublands that lead to a treacherous volcanic range. The general tone for the shard is nihilistic and dark. Chavest is a land united under an iron rule, after a series of bitter conflicts and adjustments.
Main Creature Types
1) demons - bound to Chavest by an unknown being Demons are generally humanoid but with massively muscular bodies, twisted, horned faces, clawed limbs, and in many cases leathery wings, demons embody the suffering and evil desires of ordinary races.
2) angels - also bound to Chavest by an unknown being, Angels have an extremely strong sense of justice and often devote their lives - and their deaths - to its cause, whatever it may be.
3) humans - Tough minded, hearty and adaptable.
4) imps - imps are barely-sentient, feral pests.
5) viashino - The Viashino are intelligent humanoids with lean, muscular builds. These Lizard-Folk are descended from dragons. Quick, agile, and vicious when required.
6) pheonix - rare and special, the pheonix embodies the driving force of the current, all encompassing Chavest faith, Redemption through destruction.
Note : We are allowing creatures to be Angels and Demons at the same time.
Subtypes include: knight, cleric, judge, barbarian/berserker, rogue.
To Recap : Main Types : demons, angels, humans, imps, viashino, phoenix. Subtypes : knight, cleric, judge, barbarian/berserker, rogue
Themes/Mechanics
Cleave
The decided on this form of Cleave presented during the brainstorm: Cleave X (whenever this creature deals combat damage to a blocking creature it deals X damage to that creatures controller.) As a point of clarity the phrase "a creature" was changed to "a blocking creature" as cleave was intended to be an agressive/attack based ability.
All members of the design team agreed that this was more balanced than the previous version and this version had community support during the brainstorm.
Others
The mechanics of course include the evergreen keywords (deathtouch, defender, double strike, enchant, equip, first strike, flash, flying, haste, indestructible, intimidate, landwalk, lifelink, protection, reach, regenerate, shroud, trample, and vigilance).
The general themes according to the voting are land destruction, sweepers, burn, creature removal, Life Gain/Drain, anti-land, and sacrifice.
Voting
Here's what we're looking for:
- Each person should cast one vote for your favorite card.
- Each person should critique the card for which they have voted. Agree or disagree with the Head Team's suggestions and include any other ideas you have to improve the card. You may also make comments about other cards aside from the card that you voted for. The Head team will take into considerations all comments posted about all cards.
The deadline for voting is Tuesday, March 15th, 2011 at 11:59 p.m.
hammert1m3 says... #2
My vote: Soul of Unending Justice. Chavest, shard of self-destructive fanatics. In any religion, the prophet has high regards, but it is the god/s the followers contemplate killing for. An embodiment of destruction, masquerading as justice, that never really dies so long as a follower believes; such a thing would rule that world merely by existing. Improvements: Perhaps reduce the cost of recursion to RR(w/b)1, but if so, it might be a good idea to tack "play only during your upkeep" at the end: as it is, it can come at the end of the end step, allowing "faerie trickery" with red. Sacrifice a land instead of sacrificing a creature could work to help make more powerful as well.
March 10, 2011 12:59 a.m.
Jarrod_0067 says... #3
Suzaku, Vermillion Celestial
I have never placed 1st in one of these Mythic Challenges and I REALLY want to win. If I did win, I wouldn't even accept the prize because it isn't important to me. I have been planning this card for ages; I was trying to make it fun. I wanted it to 'feel' like a mythic, not just a bulk rare and I think I accomplished that.
This is a card that, if real, I would run 2 mainboard, 2 sideboard and make a deck around it.
Please vote for mine!
March 10, 2011 1:37 a.m.
I vote for Suzaku, Vermillion Celestial ... IF Jarrod gives me his prize LOL
March 10, 2011 3:34 a.m.
Jarrod_0067 says... #5
@Leafs_suck if I promised everybody the prize, nobody would get it.
ALSO - Is there an alternative prize?
March 10, 2011 4:34 a.m.
awesomusprime says... #6
I'll vote for myself of course.I had mentioned in the original thread, I'd probably change lifelink to doublestrike to better showcase red. If doublestrike is too op, firststrike would be appropriate I would say.
For the cleave value, I was trying to emphasize his full representation of the shard. He embodied the cleave mechanic, delivering his full power through a creature and onto it's controller. That said, 5 direct damage may be a little high. By comparison the Inferno Titan deals three damage at the same casting cost, and it's target able. Cleave being unmarketable I'd either change it to cleave 4, or drop his toughness down to 3 to make him pay for the higher value. As a player I'd prefer the lower cleave since that makes the card more playable.
Finally for the wording, I worded it that way to reduce the complication of the card. By it's current wording, the color sacrificed does not correlate to the ability gained, only the number of colors to the number of abilities. Players can chose from the list. However as the abilities are representative of specific colours, making the ability gained tied to the color sac'ed may be appropriate. While I like the wording as is, I can understand why it would be changed, but the wording should be as brief as possible I'd think.
March 10, 2011 6:13 a.m.
Countert, The Conquer. But he does need some rebalancing as per the design team suggestions.
March 10, 2011 9:45 a.m.
AegairEtapa says... #9
Kel, the Purifier, making it both players sac land and lose 3 life, and rechanging the type to demon human to fix should be enough as per the teams suggestions.
March 10, 2011 11:31 a.m.
i like the idea of oraxus, with some tweaks between the original and the design team suggestions.
1 - make him an angel rogue. he has the power to "save" a creature or land by diverting their destruction to a different target. he still won't have flying, because rogue angels that change the natural order lose their wings.
2 - make each ability a tap ability. that will prevent using a wrath effect to neuter someone's manabase. still lets him swing with vigilance before doing silly things.
3 - if his abilities are tap abilities, he could cost less, as his "powers" will still need to wait a turn after he is cast. maybe rwb2?
4 - ability could read "tap: the next time a creature would be destroyed this turn, you may destroy a land owned by the same player." and vice versa. this way he can't exploit sac lands hitting the graveyard, and he could even use his own ability to protect himself! (by diverting instead of preventing destruction - something an angel rogue who has lost their wings would do.)
March 10, 2011 1:46 p.m.
exarkun809 says... #12
I'm gonna vote for mine, Oraxus, obvi.
I do like Shuflw's suggestions, although changing it from a static ability to an activated ability is against the original concept... but if that was the consensus than I'd say go for it. I more so just want it to stay as a new mechanic since I think the Chavest leader should have something mechanically original and powerful.
March 10, 2011 2:14 p.m.
Battlecry1986 says... #13
Latin, prophat of chav
This guy will see a lot of play and end a lot of games. I think his triggered abilities provide lots of gas to any chav deck. And protection from white black and red... not a lot of removal left is there, that's not counting that 1/2 the time he's going to be unblockable!
I agree its overpowered but I like the design teams sugestions
March 10, 2011 4:02 p.m.
Laron, Prophet of Chav
Maybe eliminate the pro-WBR, or make it pro-UG?
I agree with the design team.
March 10, 2011 5:22 p.m.
Suzaku, Vermillion Celestial
Maybe reduce the reanimation cost by (1)(R), but at least (R). The cost of sacrificing a land balances the power of the ability.
March 10, 2011 7:11 p.m.
Suzaku, Vermillion Celestial
Maybe reduce the reanimation cost by (1)(R), but at least (R). The cost of sacrificing a land balances the power of the ability.
March 10, 2011 7:20 p.m.
Jarrod_0067 says... #17
Sadly, Rustria, voting twice doesn't help XD
If it did, I would spam the wall for all it is worth until my fingers bled
March 11, 2011 12:35 a.m.
MagnorCriol says... #18
Vote
This is tough, because there's a lot of good cards and I feel sketch voting for myself. But I really do think Laron, Prophet of Chav has the potential to be a strong mythic and flavorful leader. He leaves open lots of design space for the rest of the set to work with him.
Card thoughts
Laron
It is too strong. I priced him cheap so he could hit the board early and affect the game for a long time; his abilities should be weaker, then, since they'll last longer. Make it gain 2 life, -1/-1, and 1 damage.
The red ability should be player-only. That was my intent, I just got sloppy.
His protection suite makes him almost completely spot removal-proof. Should he be weaker, to make him more fragile in combat? On the other hand, this is the shard of sweeper effects.
Chief Arbiter
Counters work well for the mechanic. Maybe "Judgment counters"? He'd have to stay a Judge then.
If we ONLY do them on this one mythic, it could work; it won't create complex boards because there's only ever one.
Suzaku
"Vermillion Celestial" sounds really cool.
The X ability could open up a few misplays. Cleave's damage trigger means lowering Suzy's power past 1 would nullify everything. ("What do you mean my Cleave 10 didn't do anything!?") That's an interesting bit of complexity, though, so it's not necessarily bad.
Kzalena
The upkeep ability is has great flavor, but it feels like there should be more of a reason to want to stop it. A free Pyroclasm every upkeep that doesn't even weaken my 4/4 flyer? kthx.
How about:
"At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player may sacrifice a creature. If he or she doesn't, Kzalena, the Merciless deals 2 damage to that player and each creature he or she controls."
Feels both angel-y and demon-y at once, forces sacrifice, and gives you a reason to want to sac to her.
Iphael
Y'all are right, I underestimated her power. Mainly I didn't run the different scenarios when I designed her, I just knew I wanted a variable EtB trigger. Again, I got sloppy.
The customization is what sets her apart though - it's why I designed her. I don't think we should take all the colorless out from her cost.
Lose haste, weaken her - 4/3, 3/3? Change it to 1 life gained, 2 damage, 1 life lost (not drained). This balances the life gain and life loss, and pushes R which is a phoenix's flavor home anyhow. Then at worst it's RRRWB for +1 life, -1 opp. life, Inferno , and a flier body. I think that's within bounds of a mythic's power level.
March 11, 2011 1:43 a.m.
Joshwarudd says... #19
Iphael looks fun to run but is a bit overpowered. I would increase its cost by 1 or maybe 2 but i would not change the colors for that adds to the fun of running it allowing you to pick what it does. But i agree it has not business being a five cost. Also i believe that some kind of cost needs to be added to the return effect, but thats just me. Also first strike seems tacked on and haste is a little much on this guy. I would at least consider getting rid of one if not both. I really like this card, it just needs a little work.
March 11, 2011 4:51 p.m.
Suzaku is great. Some of the other entries are good, but Suzaku is a card I can imagine wizards printing, and players all over the world windmill slamming in glee.
a few thoughts, though:
haste might be a bit much on such a high-powered card, and the recursion cost is maybe too high. I would think about removing haste, and making the recursion 'only' RBW, sac a land.
in any case, Mr. Vermillion gets my vote.
March 11, 2011 6:42 p.m.
Suzaku, Vermillion Celestial.
Card is good. The XR ability is fine. If people make the mistake of paying too much it's because they made the mistake of not reading the card right. We all do that on occasion, then we feel embarrassed when someone corrects us and the world moves on.
The card is good as is.
March 15, 2011 4:17 p.m.
Iphael, the Living Pyre
Yeah the haste needs to go away and to tone it down further I would suggest a 'Choose one: If red was spent... If White was spent... If Black was spent sort of deal.
It makes it seem more controlled and... The set just seems to need a legendary phoenix in it!
March 16, 2011 10:46 a.m.
Check out the next challenge The Chavest Judge Challenge here.
maxtheax says... #1
I vote for Chief Arbiter, Defender of Chavest.
I agree with you on some points, but disagree on others. For starters, I think having defender there for flavor purposes works really well. I mean, when do you ever see a judge run out and hit someone with his gavel? No, he just sits of to the side and destroys things from his own little private corner.
Second, I think the types are fine, but i agree that his ability is a wee-bit over powered, seeing as this is so far only a shard that has six creature types, and some wide spread sub types too. My suggestion is that it is changed from choosing a creature type, it chooses a creature name then Memoricide s it, or one of them, or including on the battlefield.
As for wither,if a -1/-1 counter is placed on something with a +1/+1 counter, they are both taken off as a state based action. P.S. it has pro creatures.
All besides, i really like it, cardwise, and flavorwise. Grazt Yourman, You have my vote.
March 10, 2011 12:59 a.m.