Card Design challenge (Uncommons red, green, and multi) Voting

Community Set

squire1

11 November 2011

2085 views

Great job everyone. We had tons of great card submissions. Most of the best according to design team votes were in green. We had a really hard time narrowing those down. So now it is time to vote everyone. Here are the top cards presented

Green Cards
Community's Top Green Cards
Stream Bed Mollusk by ilikeoldcardsbetter
Design team comments:
The design team liked the card as is and suggested no changes.
Mutating Slime by Lectrys
Design team comments:
Only comments are that the flavor could use some help. It was suggested that maybe it would be better as turning a permanent into a plant rather than a mutant. It seems less likely that a mutant have a 0 for power. Along with that would be a name change to something more plant-like. Perhaps "Mutating Sap".
Flow Bears by Joshwarudd
Design team comments:
We really liked the simplicity of this card. The set needs some more vanilla and french vanilla creatures. We are concerned about the flow cost possibly being too low. But we are fine with that being hashed out in playtesting.
Design Team's Green Cards
Mind-fed Oak by squire1
Shatter Bear by $ªmHεiπ
Rampaging Sluice-Drinker by mistergreen527
Red Cards
Community's Top Red Cards
Crackle by shadowdart
Design team comments:
We were mainly only concerned with the power level here. The wording needs some work, but the flow cost is the main concern. The design team felt that 4 damage to the face and a card draw might need a flow cost of 3RR or 2UR.
Fierce Empath by shadowdart
Design team comments:
Name needs to be changed due to Fierce Empath. We also thought the pump needed to be altered to either +1/+1 or +1/+2.
Chaotic Augury by dude1818
Design team comments:
one member of the design team wanted this to have a lower CMC. Overall we liked this card a lot.
Design Team's Red Cards
Prodigious Savant by squire1
Volcanic Shell by $ªmHεiπ
Ever-Twisting Weird by mistergreen527
RUG Cards
Community's Top RUG Cards
Naissae Guardian by TylerJohns
Design team comments:
Members of the design team felt that this was coming close to a rare. Maybe a change in p/t to 1/1.
Lumbering Brute by ilikeoldcardsbetter
Design team comments:
Again we liked this because it filled the gap for vanilla that we were all feeling. It seemed to do so in a nice way.
Uncontrolled Outburst by dude1818
Design team comments:
we really liked this card but could not understand why you would exile the cards. They should just be revealed.
Design Team's RUG Cards
Sieur Anamnesite by squire1
Flowsprite by $ªmHεiπ
Flow Elemental by mistergreen527

Voting

  1. Each player should vote for thier favorite card of each category (green, red, and RUG).
  2. Each player should provide feedback on the cards they vote for like possible changes.
  3. Each player may provide feedback on any of the other cards that are presented as well. Just be clear on what cards your are voting for and which you are simply commenting on.
  4. Design team members will not be voting, so if you do not like their designs and you all vote for something else, we will not win.

Other handy hints and things to remember

In this set there is no hybrid mana. Below is an article that shows all cards designed for Irindu and an explanation of the shard for reference.

Irindu

http://tappedout.net/mtg-articles/2011/sep/5/community-set-irindu-summary/

All votes must be submitted in the comments below by midnight EST on Wednesday, November 16th, 2011.

This article is a follow-up to Card Design challenge (Uncommons red, green, and multi) The next article in this series is Voting for BUG uncommon card designs

IronHead says... #1

Green: Mutating Slime, change mutant to either Ooze or Plant.

Red: Fierce Empath. Not sure what you should change the name to though.

RUG: Lumbering Brute.

November 11, 2011 1:56 p.m.

IronHead says... #2

I should probably add, I'd give lumbering Brute trample to at least make it French Vanilla (pure vanilla creatures are boring and unnecessary).

November 11, 2011 2:01 p.m.

RiotMaker says... #3

Green: Mutating Slime - Possibly make it say "Pay GG: Change Mutating Slime's creature type"

November 11, 2011 2:02 p.m.

TylerJohns says... #4

Woot you liked my card :D

Hey its suggested that the power and toughness be changed to 1/1 can you guys do that for me lol?

November 11, 2011 2:12 p.m.

squire1 says... #5

your should vote tyler

November 11, 2011 2:16 p.m.

sarpnasty says... #6

Green: Mutating Slime. I like the plant idea, making it a 0/3, sort of like Lignify but I think it should be "nonland permanent" Green control is great.

Red: Volcanic shell. I don't like it's flow cost though, especially because you're exiling it and not sacrficing it. 1R maybe.

URG: Sieur Anamnesite for sure. However, there should be a mana cost attached to ability as well as a tap to keep it at Uncommon power level IMO.

November 11, 2011 3:30 p.m.

Lectrys says... #7

Here are my votes, and thanks for the support for Mutating Slime!

Green: I'm voting for Flow Bears. Strictly better Grizzly Bears like Ashcoat Bear , Nest Invader , Scavenging Ooze , and Gatstaf Shepherd  Flip  FlipMTG Card: Gatstaf Howler are everywhere, and the Bears are hilarious.

Red: Volcanic Shell explores design space none of us had thought of before, and it looks pretty versatile. Perhaps the Elemental itself could be given Haste (fits with the Flow ability making it smack a target immediately) or the Flow cost could be slightly cheaper, but the card looks promising, so I'm voting for it.

Multicoloured: Uncontrolled Outburst looks fun and seems comparable to Violent Outburst , so it's reasonably balanced, too. (Maybe attaching it to a wussy creature or giving it a second, mostly irrelevant effect will make it better, as the 3 cmc Cascade cycle was common.) Thus, it gets my vote. (By the way, the wording on Cascade is unbelievable and involves temporarily exiling cards, so that's why that wording is used on Uncontrolled Outburst.)

November 11, 2011 4:08 p.m.

Vael22 says... #8

Green: I vote Mind-Fed Oak. I would however suggest that you drop the U from the flow cost. Two reasons: 1) It makes it much more awkward to fit into decks, and 2)Just because Flow is inherent card advantage doesn't mean you need to add random extra cost or add U where it doesn't need to go. Stuff like flashback needs to be expensive because it gives you free spells. Flow has a very tough timing restriction which helps mitigate the advantage gained. For example, as of right now, if you draw Mind-Fed Oak in your opening hand or anytime you hit 5 mana it is just a 2/2 for 2, and even after you hit 5 mana to curve out well you have to draw it and have access to the 5 mana and at least GU and you have to want to play it at that exact time. Maybe I'm wrong since I haven't play-tested Flow at all a maybe you have (hint: you should have before you started contests with it), but it is most likely a lot more limiting than it would seem at first glance. I also really like Flow Bears as is but it doesn't really seem like an uncommon. Its not really that much better than a Runeclaw Bear since once it is in your hand it is actually the same card. It would make a really sweet common though.

Red: I vote for Volcanic Shell, though I agree with Lectrys that it could easily have haste so that it acts like a bolt no matter what, and also since 3 mana for a vanilla 3/1 seems a bit expensive for an uncommon.

RUG: I vote for Lumbering Brute for the reasons you mention. The rest of your cards look very complex especially with Flow. I do think it should be a 7/7 since 6 mana with three colors is expensive for a vanilla uncommon.

Also @IronHead, pure Vanilla creatures are fine and extremely necessary. Try reading a few of Mark Rosewater's articles of card design, especially for the GDS2. Vanillas are great for adding flavor as well as holding back complexity. I realize that they mostly stay at common, but my above comments explain why it is okay.

November 11, 2011 7:12 p.m.

squire1 says... #9

I totally understand the idea of flow being restrictive, but I take it from this perspective. Card advantage wins games. Plain and simple. And playtesting flow prior to the contest would have been great, but the project is over a year old and I was not an original member. The mechanic was developed before I was on board. Moreover, how does one playtest a card mechanic without cards. After the set is layed out we are planning exhaustive playtesting. If at that point flow is determined to be stronger or weaker than we think, the costs will be adjusted accordingly.

I personally think all flow costs should have blue in them. I am the only member of the design team that feels that way, so it won't happen. I do think that adding it to that card is fine though. While it is restrictive to play, this is a multicolor set decks will be three colors for the most part. Splashing colors will be common. And in eternal formats, it is even easier to splash colors these days.

Just some of my opinions. I do not think that my designs are the best presented here, but I think them all playable.

November 11, 2011 7:35 p.m.

Green - Flow Bears: I can see that the flow might need to be raised

Red - Fierce Empath - what if Trample was given along with a +1/+1 with a forest (just because, you know, trample is more green than red). in that case maybe it would just have to cost 1R.

RUG - Lumbering Brute - I guess playtesting will determine if it is under/over powered. maybe it needs trample, or some other ability, to make it uncommon.

*I like the connectivity (if you could call it that) of the Stream bed mollusk and the Rampaging sluice drinker. Like Falkenrath Marauders and Stromkirk Noble

November 11, 2011 8:14 p.m.

Vael22 says... #11

I completely understand and I also get that most of these issues are things that will get ironed out with playtesting. Also for the record you can playtest a mechanic pretty easily by slapping it on a bunch of vanilla commons that would be okay. Essentially you make a bunch of cards like Flow Bears because at the very least it will give you a basic idea of how the mechanic functions in-game. This is especially important because it would really suck if after spending all this time playtesting shows that one or more mechanics doesn't work. I do understand it would be very tough if the design team has changed since it began.

Also card advantage is important but saying it wins games plain and simple is slightly misleading. Also green gets pretty healthy card draw these days so green flow costs should be fairly safe without U in the cost. I do agree with you on red cards though, for example I would say that Crackle having a flow cost of 1UR or 2UR would be a good move. 1UR might be better for an uncommon.

November 11, 2011 8:23 p.m.

shadowdart says... #12

Green: Mutating Slime

Red: Fierce Empath that I would change into Frenzied Empath and if the pump needs to be changed, I would change it to +1/+1. I wanted him to be like Wild Nacatl .

Multi: Sieur Anamnesite.

November 11, 2011 10:05 p.m.

SwiftDeath says... #13

Green: mutating slime, should be non-land permanent.

Red: fierce empath, for 2R I feel it is a bit underpowered it shouldn't have trample if you don't control a forest and should get +1/+2 so it is like a 3/3 that has trample and hexproof. however I feel like it could still be an uncommon for 1R because it comes into play as a 3/3 trample or a 2/1 hexproof almost like low cost red Sacred Wolf and then can quickly become a problem if left alone to get hexproof or if with out a forest can easily be chumpblocked.

RUG: lumbering brute, I feel like it could be a 2RUG for a 6/7 and still be an uncommon my reasoning is that wizards usually makes the vanilla 3 color creatures more powerful to compensate for cost. my best example would have to be Woolly Thoctar .

November 11, 2011 11:09 p.m.

dude1818 says... #14

I like Flow Bears, but I think it should be common. My green vote is Rampaging Sluice-Drinker.

Of course I'm going to vote for Chaotic Augury. :) I also like Crackle, but feel it should be "Deal 1 to target creature or player. If flow, deal 2 damage to target creature or player." It seems too wordy right now.

When I made Uncontrolled Outburst, I don't remember why it exiled, rather than revealed. Either way works. I like Lumbering Brute (reminiscent of Fusion Elemental ), but I think it could be 7/7. I don't think Flowsprite needs a mana cost. Without one, the complicated +1/+1 counter ability is unnecessary. Either way, it needs a color indicator. Right now it's technically colorless.

November 12, 2011 12:53 a.m.

nightscape says... #15

Green - Mutating Slime

A strange utility card, especially for green, but for me makes total sense for this set.

Red - Chaotic Augury

Honestly, I'm not feeling any of these red cards at all, but Chaotic Augury goes with the direction of the set. Since it deals damage to you and costs 4 mana for an ability that, while good in the set, is still a bit underpowered, I suggest one of the following: either dropping it to 1R, or having Chaotic Augury deal 1 damage to target player instead.

Multi - Sieur Anamnesite

Again, I'm not feeling these multicolors. This is probably just me not fully grasping the set. Regardless, Sieur Anamnesite remains interesting. My suggestion would be to change "where X is the number of cards you have drawn this turn" to "where X is the number of cards target player has drawn this turn." I speculate Flow will be a trigger taken advantage of mostly on ones own turn. If that turns out to be true, Sieur Anamnesite would have no reason to remain untapped going into an opponents turn. While this change definitely does not alleviate this, it certainly brings a new perspective to it. Also, I'm concerned the green mana of Sieur's 3 colors is not represented in this card in any form. Perhaps instead of a 1/1 flying, it could be a 1/3 reach or something.

Random input on the cards:

Stream Bed Mollusk: Fantastically balanced card, and the mental image of a Mollusk Wurm is definately interesting.

Flow Bears: Love the simplistic power of this card.

Mind-fed Oak: Here we see squire1 's vision of Flow. A splash of blue and a higher Flow cost than I believe others would assign to it. Why? Well, he's right in that the power level of Flow is as of yet undetermined. Flow represents pure card advantage, though it does have its disadvantages. That being said, I like the way this card feels within the intended set.

Shatter Bear: Very very interesting concept here that makes Flow feel a bit like Evoke. at a GG Flow cost, it makes perfect sense to exile him on ETB. My suggestion here is for a Flow cost of GR instead.

Rampaging Sluice-Drinker: This card feels just great as is, but its true power level is going to come down to just how often one Flows, which a nice play test will show us.

Crackle: The bastard child of Lightning Bolt and Fire/Ice . I like this card. I also like how Flowing it will let you split up how all that damage is dealt. I feel the CMC of the Flow is fine, but would change it to 2RR.

Fierce Empath: A solid beatstick who plays well within his intended set. I personally feel him going to 4/2 is fine, both because he is in actually a red card and therefore a bit suicidal, and because the island portion gives him hexproof.

cont.

November 12, 2011 7:26 a.m.

nightscape says... #16

Prodigious Savant: I like this sort of design. The card embraces the chaos I feel inherent to Irindu. This feels like it would need tweaks, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Volcanic Shell: This card feels great, with a higher mana cost to offset its utility. My main worry here is if that Flow cost is a bit low, seeing as 3 damage and a card drawn is probably worth more than 3 mana. Perhaps 2RR or 3R.

Ever-Twisting Weird: Another card embracing the chaos. Love it. With the ability taking UR and a coin flip, why don't we make a bit more interesting? Say, if you lose the coin flip and get -2/-0, what if it also gained flying until EOT?

Naissae Guardian: I have to agree, this card feels rare. This is a bit too much going on. To take care of the rare-like quality of this card, I would just drop that second ability, and also drop the "if it does, it gains this ability" part of the first one so it can shift but once per turn. Here's an idea I'm just throwing out there to both fit the shapeshifting idea of the card and also feel like the Guardian part of Naissae Guardian: "GUU: Naissae Guardian becomes a copy of another target creature you control until end of turn and gains 'whenever another creature with the same name as this card is dealt damage, prevent 1 of that damage.'"

Lumbering Brute: Some people can appreciate vanilla-like quality. I'm not sure I can. Personally, this feels so amazingly underpowered at 6/7 with no abilities. at a CMC of 6 and requiring 3 different colors, I think 8/7 is more appropriate.

Uncontrolled Outburst: While it probably doesn't matter in this set that they are exiled or revealed, it is probably safer to say they are just revealed. Exiling such a potentially massive amount of cards could cause some serious reactions.

Flowsprite: This card is currently colorless. Maybe this is intended, I don't know. Playing it for its Flow cost makes this card a solid beater that nets a card. I think an additional generic mana may be required here. Also, I guess I just dont understand a casting cost of zero for a 0/0. I don't think I'm comprehending the direction of this card.

Flow Elemental: Like the feel of this card, but I think the Flow cost might need another 1 generic tacked on.

November 12, 2011 7:35 a.m.

kingboo3000 says... #17

GREEN: Oh... Shatter Bears, for sure. I think the other bears are a bit overpowered, but this ability is great.

RED: I vote for Crackle! Fun stuff, plus it feels similar to the card I designed, I mean sure, I like mine better, but this is great stuff.

RUG: I vote for Uncontrolled Outburst, which should indeed be changed to reveal instead of exile.

NOTES: I really like Naissae Guardian, but I think it should be a rare, and possibly a p/t of 2/3. (If it's a rare.)

November 12, 2011 10:01 a.m.

http404error says... #18

Flow Bear

Volcanic Shell

Lumbering Brute

Any comments I could make have been said already.

November 13, 2011 1:10 a.m.

Jarrod_0067 says... #19

Lumbering Brute is good, but it seems like it is missing the Berserker mechanic, it is a brute after all. Also, the creature type needs to be altered. It feels more like a Human Mutant. My suggestion to keep mana cost balanced and to make it slightly more flavorsome


Lumbering Brute 2RUG

Creature - Human Mutant

Lumbering Brute attacks each turn if able.

6/6


This puts it on par with Berserkers of Blood Ridge although you get the added +2/+2 boost, thus benefiting out of running 3 colors

November 14, 2011 7:32 a.m.

squire1 says... #20

OK final cards will be posted in the irindu page after they are determined. Next set of cards is up and ready for voting. Read here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-articles/2011/nov/17/voting-bug-uncommon-card-designs/

November 17, 2011 8:35 a.m.

squire1 says... #21

Ok the winning cards have been added to the irindu summary page

November 17, 2011 10:27 p.m.

Junius01 says... #22

For green, I choose Flow Bear, but Id change its flow cost to 1G.

For Red, I choose Chaotic Augury. But Id change some of it. Or you should be able to do this whenever you want (have priority) and not only when you draw a card, or it should be discard instead of putting it on top of your library and id deal 2 damage, or it should be put on the bottom of your deck.

For RUB, I choose Lumbering Brute, but Id give it haste.

January 1, 2012 3:40 p.m.

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