Community Set Final Uncommon Artifact Cycle
Community Set
squire1
20 October 2011
1464 views
20 October 2011
1464 views
Hello everyone. After the voting for our uncommon artifact cycle sarpnasty was the winner. He was able to meet with the design team Thursday night to hash out the rest of his cycle. First, I would like to thank sarpnasty for meeting with us and being a great team player. It was a please to work with him and the design team greatly appreciates the time he took and all of his very thoughtful designs. So lets take a look at the original card that got sarpnasty the win.
Original card
Design team ideas
Starting Comments and designs
After the winner was selected by the community voting, we posted a spreadsheet for designing the rest of the cycle for the design team and sarpnasty. Everyone had agreed on a meeting time. Prior to our meeting everyone logged in as they had time to jot down any related ideas that they had regarding the cycle. Some of the early comments were:
"I like them all with flash. I think they are fine as they are. I am getting that they should all have a common 1cmc instant as the effect that is defensive"
squire1
"I think one main thing we need to be aware of is that each card will be giving every color access to an instant speed effect. We don't want to color bleed too much."
mistergreen527
"I was afraid of making it cost less because abilities like regenerate are color specific. Unless we made it a colored artifact, I think it would be bad to give off color abilities AND mana ramp to colors that didn't normally have them."
Xander574
A few of us even posted card ideas to expound upon our concepts. Again this is all before we actually met. My cards came out like this.
Discussion
At the beginning of the meeting, we started to riff on the concepts discussed earlier, but then we realized that we jumped into that too quickly. We wanted to know what the winner on the challenge actually envisioned for his set. As it turns out sarpnasty wanted the abilities to be more synergistic with each of the shard themes. So, we completely abandoned the defensive concept of my designs, which was really a great move. We really started off with the Irindu card. We tried to think about what Irindu wanted, and that is card draw, so we all shot around ideas like "When CARDNAME ETB,:
- draw a card.
- draw a card, then discard a card
- draw a card, then put a card from your hand on top of your library. (mini Brainstorm)
What we came up with in the end is so Irindu its not funny and in most other situations its weak. We went with "..., put a card from your hand on top of your library, then draw a card." The reason why this works is because if you are playing a flow deck, this card enables flow for a card in hand and if your hand is empty you get a card. So in any other deck there is no advantage at all, but it is a great advantage for irindu.
We then looked at the Ulgris card. Ulgris is about swarm and magic suppression and wither. Well the original use of regeneration here did not really play on that too much. It was suggested that you get a 1/1 or a 0/1 creature token. The next suggestion was to make it a mini Fate Transfer. Allowing Ulgris players to manipulate the field a tiny bit in an instant.
Chavest was next and we seemed to be on a roll with synergies related to the special mechanics, so we wanted to play off of cleave. What does cleave want? Cleave wants to be blocked. So we wanted to force a creature to block. We all went back and forth for a while on whether it would force a specific creature to block another specific creature or if it would just force a creature to block something. In the end we settled on the slightly more balanced version, that target creature had to block something this turn. Again, when played correctly, this is strong in Chavest, but weak elsewhere.
Sorok was up next. Originally someone suggested that it give all creatures -3/-0 to play off of resolve, but that was too strong. We then moved to -1/-0 which is weaker and has precedent as a common (see Hell Swarm) but was for sure in blue realm. We liked it but it could still cause a bit too much, so we discussed it having to do with attacking and blocking creatures since red and white both have such concerns. In the final one we used the "all blocking creatures and all blocked creatures get -1/-0 until end of turn." verbiage. It was "attacking and blocking", then "all blocked and blocking" but Fight to the Death settled the wording for us. Again this card is great for resolve-based decks and not great otherwise.
Morglen was the last shard to deal with and really took the longest. We started with using the regenerate thing again in Morglen, but that does not work with Memento at all. So we thought about having it be an instant speed Raise Dead and have a card from graveyard go to your hand, which makes sense with Memento since you get an extra use. It was then suggested that it be a conditional Raise Dead, so "you may put a card from your graveyard into hand if it shares a name with a card on the battlefield". That seemed to work with Memento too. It was also suggested that maybe the conditional one put the creature into play. Then maybe that it puts a card from graveyard on top of your library. So we talked about all of these options for a while, then we drew our attention to the original card. It said regenerate. What does that do? It prevents a creature from dying. So in a twist on that we decided well how is that so much better than it just bouncing back into play after dying. Now this does create the trigger ability problem. We are aware. It may be too strong. I know, but that is what playtesting is for. This may have to switch back to a weaker version at some point.
Well that is about it. The cards may be undercosted now, or the activations may need to be raised, but we are planning on changes after playtesting, so that might happen to this cycle. Check out the new cards below.
Final designs
Next Challenge
Well we have been doing this for what a year or more now. I love this project and I think it is going great, but it takes a ton of time. So this week we are not issuing a challenge. We are taking a week off to meet and plan upcoming challenges. We have some ideas and I promise you that you will be seeing some old designs very soon. I won't tell you what that means yet, but you will. So the design team will meet in a week, decide upon the next challenge and you will get a challenge issued the next day.
I hope you all enjoyed the insight in the design process.
Normally I am not one to question design openly, but does Palus Lizard Tail seem extremely powerful? Maybe if it returned the creature to its owner's hand it would be somewhat balanced.
October 21, 2011 3:43 p.m.
It does seem too powerful as is in all honesty. At least rare and it greatly outshines the others in the cycle IMO.
I do love the ideas though. Good job.
October 21, 2011 4:02 p.m.
yeah - we did say it would be hashed out in play testing, but I completely agree, but we can change it later - would you agree that in hand would be balanced or do we need to go further?
October 21, 2011 5:41 p.m.
mozerdozer says... #5
In the Venifucia Timepiece, the sacrifice ability uses an incorrect card name.
The Judjurcut Sigil really gets no bonus from being an instant.
"Attacking and blocking creatures" means something else than "blocking and blocked creatures" so I am not sure why you think the only difference between the two phrases is wording. These are all the cards that use the phrase "attacking or blocking": http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&text=+[attacking]+[blocking].
The Palus Lizard Tail seems too powerful. It is extremely useful with memento because you can just sacrifice the creature and get a token and the original creature back. Unlike the other cards, it is also useful in any shard.
October 21, 2011 5:41 p.m.
all good points. I will fix the irindu one in a bit. And I agree that the sorok one is not just wording. It does sound like that from my description. That was not the case though. We actually wanted to only diminish the blocked and blocking creature so that it was not a poptential Fog for the unblocked creatures.
And yes I agree that Lizard tail is a bit too strong. I think that it can be easily fixed though and most likely will in playtesting. Overall though I am very happy with the set and if lizard tail was a stand alone rare, I would like it.
October 21, 2011 7:32 p.m.
Hand should be fine IMO. Just not reanimate, even in a limited form.
October 21, 2011 8:32 p.m.
@birdseed - if you look in the articles hub, there are summary articles for each shard that have all cards designed so far.
October 22, 2011 8:52 a.m.
MagnorCriol says... #9
Nice. I like how these came out, save for Lizard Tail, but Mpz5's already covered that.
I'm glad we were able to do something interesting with these. There's something to be said for simplicity in your utility fixers, but I always love it when there's a cycle that's NOT functionally identical except for color symbols, you know? There's more depth. And all of these do a good job giving a benefit for the shard.
Hmm. Random thought. What if Lizard Tail read "return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand if it has the same name as a token you control"? This would give the Disentomb effect that's useless for anyone without Momento, and wouldn't be just a Zombify .
October 22, 2011 9:53 a.m.
nightscape says... #10
It's been said, but Palus Lizard Tail is so amazingly overpowered that I would try to sneak 6, maybe 7 into any deck ever.
October 22, 2011 3:09 p.m.
I haven't been involved in this set design, but isn't the RUG one kind of stupid? It's not a mini-Brainstorm , the way you've worded it, since you draw after putting a card back. Or is that a mistake, i.e. Shouldn't it say "Draw a card, then put a card from your hand on top of your library."? You have it backwards.
October 22, 2011 4:31 p.m.
SwiftDeath says... #12
my suggestion for lizard tail would be to limit it to creature's you control being able to steal your oppoenents creatures is way to powerful.
October 22, 2011 7:58 p.m.
That shards main mechanic is called flow which allows you to play a card for the flow cost if you draw it and then draw another card.
Basically, it would allow you to put a card in your hand on top of your deck to draw and take advantage of the flow cost.
October 22, 2011 8:33 p.m.
Ah. I never thought about it like that. I just saw the phrase "mini-Brainstorm " in the description and jumped to a conclusion.
October 22, 2011 10:10 p.m.
KorApprentice says... #15
With Venifucia Timepiece, could you put a card from your hand on top of your library and then pop a fetch land before you draw?
October 23, 2011 1:18 p.m.
mistergreen527 says... #16
During the design discussion of the Lizard Tail, one of the ideas that was presented was: "Sacrifice a creature you control. Then, if that creature card is in your graveyard, return it to the battlefield under your control." It allows both "enters the battlefield" abilities and "dies" abilities to trigger. And, it didn't deviate too far from regeneration, since it could still be used to save your creature from dying.
Alternatively, there could be: "Return a creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield under your control. Then, sacrifice it." This also interacts well with Momento.
Just thought I'd throw these ideas out there for input, since the Lizard Tail was being targeted.
October 23, 2011 1:52 p.m.
@KorApprentice You can't because abilities cannot be activated while an effect is resolving.
October 25, 2011 2:32 p.m.
With the Judjurcut sigil, have you considered that if they control a say, Palace Guard that it could be really powerful. Because it would technically mean that it has to block all creatures.
Then, this may be just me jumping to conclusions, since I'm not exactly clear on what the 'cleave' ability does.
October 26, 2011 8:45 p.m.
It would not mean that though. It could require Palace Guard to block, but it does not say it has to block a specific creature or number of creatures
October 27, 2011 8:01 a.m.
MagnorCriol says... #20
Yeah. It'd have to say read "target creature must block all creatures it could block this turn if able" or something awkward like that. And even then you'd only be getting rid of a Palace Guard ...not exactly backbreaking.
October 27, 2011 1:46 p.m.
I think he's referring to their creatures having cleave and you having a palace guard as backbreaking... it honestly would be if you had to block all the cleave creatures with the guard.
October 27, 2011 4:14 p.m.
Ok everyone. Moving on with the next challenge here http://tappedout.net/mtg-articles/2011/oct/28/community-set-irindu-uncommons/
birdseed says... #1
Could you potentially post a visual spoiler of everything we have done so far? I'd love to look at it as a whole.
October 21, 2011 3:36 p.m.