Good article, rckclimber777. Whenever I find that someone offers advice on one of my decks that I disagree with, I explain why my way produces better results while trying not to directly dismiss the comment. I think the strongest phrasing I've ever used in this regard is "I don't think that's necessary" or "I disagree," and an explanation of why is always given.

Remember that you can remove comments from your wall and decks. Also, I think using the deck update (not the deck edit) nukes all existing comments. Not 100% sure on that one, but I've noticed that all decks I previously commented on that have been updated don't have my comment listed anymore.

As a reply to one of squire1 's notes, I usually aim to infer what kind of limitations are present in the deck. If there's no deck description of the restrictions, look at the cards in the deck as well as the price tag. If it has a low price and a bunch of standard commons/uncommons, there's a good chance that the player just started and that's all they have to work with. If it contains eternal staples, I will assume they've got some experience. I also ask about budgets and goals, especially when commenting on EDH decks. I then tailor my comments accordingly. I don't tell new players to go out and buy $50 cards because that advice is not going to be realistically helpful.

Great article!

I'll make sure to keep on my best behavior. :)

Good Article by Rock climber. And good comments, points by all. Altho I am aware of some to most of the article talks about, and TRY to go by those things, there are a couple,few,some things, in this article, that I hadn't been aware of, thought of.

Also I would add that when I make comments, I TRY to explain the reason, logic behind the comments. I also don't demand, say that a person has to do it "MY WAY", only that they probably should, because of WHY I think I am probably right. Telling, demanding a person do such and such, while not explaining any reason, logic, is not good.

Also when people give me advice, comments, I listen, try to see if it makes sense to me, and how I could use even the smallest part or piece of that advice.And if I am not able to do that, I either ask for them to clarify their advice, or I explain why I don't agree with their advice, and why I am not using it.

Then that's a chance for that person to try and rebut that, and convince, persuade, sell me, etc.If done right by both parties, this can lead to good, positive debate,discussion, that can lead to better understanding,agreement,trying out of advice, etc.

Now because I do that, some players assume, that I don't listen, take advice, etc. That's not true. I do listen, do take advice, and I have taken lots of advice. Some tho, just don't want to discuss, convince, persuade, sell me, that I should take their advice.

So I think that players should try to discuss, convince, persuade, sell other players, on the advice they give, rather then just say to do such and such.

So thanks again for the article Rock climber.

I am so tempted to troll this article.

I get that shadowdart :). I was crazy tempted to play an April fools joke on the community yesterday, but we must restrain.

LOL @ shadowdart's comment

Nice article indeed!

It is so hard to turn the other cheek when you feel attacked but truly, it is what needs to happen if we are to keep this community the same quality that it has been.

If you feel personally attacked, perhaps you can say as much and ask them to refrain from doing it again. Be respectful but direct. If they persist, ignore them and report the abuse to an admin. They will handle it from there.

Remember these tips:

Only idiots argue with idiots... don't be an idiot.

Don't feed the trolls, they will get hungry and go somewhere else.

You are not always right, consider that before you type.

I dig it.

Constructive criticism is always best. I like to give it and don't mind taking it. Constructive being the key word. Some people are jerks; I don't want to be one of them.

Glad to see the discussion here. Thanks for the feedback everyone. I love this site and hope that it continues to rock for a long time to come.

I think this is a great article. Whenever I give deck advice now, I always try to give a budget version and a version where I preface it with "If Budget is not an issue". I love this site because of all the different flavors of players that hang out on it. This and the trading article by Epochalyptik are great guides for us newer members!

yea, thx guys you and epoch have really helped me out!!!

thx!

Came here to post "screw you, hippie", but there are enough jokes on the internet already. The #1 piece of advice from the article in my opinion is to take a break and not argue with someone who's purposefully making comments to piss you off. As a reformed troll and all-around internet jerk, I know firsthand it's the hardest - yet most important - lesson to learn on the web.

I haven't had the unlucky breaks and had to deal with many flame wars, but as websites get more popular and active it attracts some unsavory characters.

Just remember everyone, treat others how you wish to be treated. If you treat people like dirt, then move along, there are plenty of worse sites that will gladly take you in.

speaking of which, how many followers does this site have now? would be cool to have a counter and a 'this many new users this week'

If the T/O rank works the way I think it does (higher is better), then 61054 (since I'm the top contributor).

lol Rhadamanthus

Or perhaps not; squire1 has a higher rank than I do.

Epochalyptik mine is 61141...so I'm not sure how that is calculated at all. Although an estimate around there could be feasible.

I'm pretty sure the player rank has been a non-working feature for quite a while now. I'd estimate at least 80k, because I know there are many users who have "None yet" in that field, and because my number hasn't changed from 60979 since the new ranking system was implemented probably half a year ago. I personally liked it better the other way where it was the lower the number the higher the rank (that's a bunch of "the"s!), but either way is fine. It would be cool to see it working again, however.

I too liked the lower the number the higher the ranking system. Not sure how it works either...

Even more than metalmagic guessed

Given my current rank, and how seldom I post comments, I gotta figure the system is not quite up to spec.

As for the article... well done. An important reminder.

I'll guess 120k, for teh lulz. But in seriousness, I think what needs to remembered are basic rules of etiquette! I personally try to be polite and say please and thank you when trying to give advice. Plus, I don't even bother to comment on decks that I don't understand. I think that's an important thing to remember: I play W and U, so I'm not going to be a bunch of help advising a RDW player on if he should run more Chandra's Phoenix or Stormblood Berserker or a Pod player exactly what his chain should be. It's important to stick to what you know, and to explain yourself. One comment I recently had that was a little odd was simply a bunch of -3 "this in my deck" -2 "another thing" and such. Some of the ideas were good, but there was 0 explanation and some of the ideas actually hurt my deck. All I could do was say my point of view, and hope that I wasn't actually ignoring good advice.

Oh, and being concise is good. Anyone who can get their point across succinctly is cool. I'm quite lame, if you can't tell.

I wasn't sure about writing this when I first had the desire. Glad I did and glad that was helpful for some and a good reminder for others. This site continues to be awesome!

A good refresher course on not trolling. I tend to be very literal aqnd direct when I occasionally leave deck feedback, I also often don't go back again to have a conversation. Maybe I'll try to improve these things.

nice article dude, i definitely agree that even a brief deck description helps to overcome most of the suggestion issues that people will have with a deck like yea go buy 4x JtMS. overall though i agree with the whole lot, top stuff!:) and yes this site rocks!

Good stuff rckclimber777. Whenever I post, I always try to keep the user in focus. However, with that in mind, I also make a general assumption that people who come here build decks in order to compete, so I try and make sure my advice is helping them create a more consistent and competitive deck. Of course this is not always the case, and it's something I have to remember.

-BuLLZ3Y3

Thank you rckclimber777. It's always good to be refreshed on what this site's about and the many different reasons people join on. I personally use it to test decks to see if I really want to trade for or buy those couple rare/expensive cards.

Comments #26-28 byMoobu on my Crushing Mill deck are great examples of how to Help/sell/convince other players of ways to improve or step-up their deck.

I was really struggling with how to find what was missing while still keeping with the inspiration. Moobu really wow'ed me with his well thought out and reasoned response. His advice was easy to understand and swallow. Based on the comments I created crushing alchemy (comments pls) which works more like I wanted.

-thewizard63

Love the article brotha!

Echoing what everyone else has said, thanks for the great article rckclimber777. There have been times where I've been a bit arrogant and posted an answer to a question and have been just plain wrong. It's those times where keeping calm and learning from your mistakes are two virtues that will separate the best commenters from the rest.

Very nice article. Its good to see that the T/O community is still maintaining their status of a friendly place for MTG related goodness.

Personally, I never really see insults towards people and their decks on the site, but one display of arrogance I tend to see and mind you, get a little bit annoyed with, is people say on other decks "you should build your deck more like mine, -4 this and +4 that, here look at my deck: Lame Netdeck 2.0 "

I dunno, I get the whole wanting to advertise your deck and showing that you have a similar build, but its just the way some people throw it at other deck maker's faces that makes me so...

-breathes in- Alright, I'm caaaaallllllm... - breathes out-

I've seen that from time to time. Whenever I link my own decks on other people's decks or threads, there's a reason for it in the post. For example, I'll help someone with a knight build and then link them to my own knight deck (which is where I got the experience to back up the advice I was offering).

See, thats alright.

Some people just shove it in your face though as if there is a strict way to make a deck and that the only way to play is to win with the best cards and best deck. It ruins other important and fun aspects of the game, like deck building creativity. :<

Whenever I link mine I always follow it by saying "for ideas." That way they can look at it if they want to to see what I'm doing with mine and if it sparks something cool if not that's cool too.

Good points Epoch, STG,others. That's why I try to explain the logic, reasoning, behind changes I suggest.

Also altho there are the basic,frame, core, almost semi must have, staple cards, for some specific very common decks. Those are Zombies, Humans, Delver, Spirits, WW, vamps, werewolves, goblins,RDW, Tempered steel,etc. And altho there sre extremely good reasons, those decks are made the way they are, as far as basic,core,frame goes. There is still plenty of room, about 3 to 9 card slots, in those decks, to allow for creativity, variation, innovation, tech development. In other words, those decks should be very similar, but don't have to be exactly the same cookie cutter clones, of each other either.

Also in those decks, if someone is running 2,3 of a core card, instead of 3,4 of a core card, a 1 card difference, then there might be a good reason why they are doing so. So while I might suggest they run a core card at 3,4 instead of 2,3, and my logic for doing so. I don't say they have to.

And that's just those decks. There are lots of other decks, that aren't as dependent, on what cards, you use, that allow for greater variation. So when I give advice, I try to stick to what I know, explain logic, sometimes post my deck as reference, while allowing for variation, and not saying, demanding that must be like my deck.

Also, if someone is building a deck, based on creativity, fun, budget, experimentation, etc, rather then making the best build possible, regardless of those factors, then I respect that, and give loose, basic, general advice, instead.

@Ohthenoises: "for ideas" is simple and genius. I always see deck links as for ideas, but now I can see how that might read as a deck shove. "For ideas" will always suffix my deck links from here on.

Thanks!

There are some times where my comments are "abbreviated" however its usually because I'm on my phone such as right now however I still try and be polite so if anyone sees me being short with someone when replying I assure you its only because my phone HATES to type on this site so I have to keep what I say to a minimum or I'll go insane. :P

I know sometimes when I critique stuff I'm met with hostility, so I know for myself especially if there is no deck description to ask first. If I see a deck that I've seen before by someone else that was more efficient I try to ask why they are using some cards but not others or if they've thought about 'this' or 'that' card.

I think the only time I come off as harsh is when I ask people why they used certain 'Hubs' when the deck doesn't fit the 'Template' then I try to advise them why it isn't what they are calling it or help them make it so.

I've also noticed the earlier in the day(/the less coffee I have) the shorter my responses are and the harsher they seem(I'm working on it).

On the subject of: "See my deck for ideas" if it is proposed to me I see it as either, "I have a different twist on your idea, here check it out maybe you'll see something you might want to try." or as spam, depending on the user. I know when I've suggested any of my decks to people for ideas for them, my intent is always "I'd type out some ideas you could put in your deck, but I type slow, so if you just look at might deck/description you'll see something you might do differently." with the open mind that they may then see something or know about something I don't, that they might suggest.

Yeah, Ohthenoises sometimes your comments don't really strike a cord until you comment a second time from a 'Big Kid Computer(the name my wife and I use for not using the internet from our Droids).

rckclimber777, good article, it helps people on the internet to keep civil with one another if we are reminded that just because you are interacting with a faceless system you are still corresponding with real people. We are here to help each other. As I've said before I like the help I get here and the help I can offer. "The better you become, the better I become, the better the game becomes, this makes it more enjoyable for all of us." - Minousmancer

insert troll comment here.

jk I'll try to behave.