Rogue decks at GP
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Cableguy
16 February 2012
2737 views
16 February 2012
2737 views
So as some of you may know the Grand Prix in Baltimore is rapidly approaching. This is HUGE mainly because Grand Prix’s rarely come to the East Coast which means my team and I get to attend. The only thing is we have two different mind sets on our team one of which is “Build the rogue deck they never see coming and win 65% of the time without hate,” and “Build a consistent deck that has proven itself and tweak it to your liking.” I myself am the second line of thought where I want to be like “I am running Delver and side boarding more Demystify for Humans, Tokens, and even O. Rings.”
There are pros and cons to running the previous game winning decks so lets go over them real quick:
Pros:
Consistency rarely found in rogue decks: These decks won for a reason Delver wins because it has sick draws and power of nowhere for a win only you saw coming a mile away.
Greater Knowledge: There comes a bit of relief knowing your deck CAN perform and all you have to do is make the right plays. This breeds confidence in what you are running and makes you more relaxed.
Cons:
HATE: Every deck that wins has a bane and more often than not they’re sideboard is labeled “I hate that deck,” and you begin to doubt choosing your deck. Than you lose confidence get peeved and tell your friends you got mana flooded or drew too poorly when realistically you had 4 flipped delvers and he Whipflared.
Opponents greater knowledge: You cant expect every match up to be a scrub which means if they did any play testing at all than they know 73 cards of your deck.
I try to prevent being targeted yet I always got my wins with archtype decks aka Valakut, Tempered Steel, Caw Blade, Delver Blade, etc. So where you make up for all the hate is your own skill.
Now onto Rogue decks. As I mentioned not long ago in a comment my buddy is wanting to run BW Control because he feels like it can dominate the meta in a way that embarrasses most of the previous top 8 decks. Our typical style of thinking up rogue decks involve realizing the hate we need to bring how to harness it and consistently win with it. So now to the Pros and Cons of rogue decks.
Pros:
Surprise!: Your opponent will begin to sweat when he realizes he has no idea what you are running and he could be VERY unprepared (Like facing Dredge with 0 graveyard hate or kill spells). You often get surprising success against popular decks.
Greater Knowledge: You know what you have and they don’t kinda goes with the above.
Little Hate: Decks cant prepare for every single thing its impossible so you build your sideboard to beat the metagame and the deck you have the worst matches against. If they don’t know what you have they can often have very little cards in the sideboard that truly help.
Cons:
Not Consistent: Your deck may or may not be consistent but often its not NEARLY as tested as say Wolf Run which has been run and won with multiple times and play tested by thousands hundreds of times.
Other Rogue Deck: Often you will lost the most matches against other Rogue decks looking to fool the metagame and this match just comes down to luck and who gets what first or has the better strategy.
My friends rogue deck he is testing with can be found here BW Control if your interested.
Now moving away from Pros and Cons and to the play testing of the above deck.
I can’t win! (except with a standard EDH deck with only 60 cards, another story).
I have used John Fikle’s Spirit Delver, I have used Kibler’s Wolf Run, I have used Frites (5 color reanimator), Esper Control, 4CC, Tempered Steel, etc.
The closest deck was Frites because of a consistent turn 3 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur so yes I CAN beat him with it but he magic draws those Oblivion Rings.
Personally this leaves me to question what I myself should run. I know play testing against a rogue deck is NEVER a good idea as you will never see another one like it. However I almost want to grab the same thing and use it to plow through all the metagame.
So with that I leave you guys with an open-ended question; If you were to be playing in the Grand Prix next weekend what would you run and why? I kind of know my answer already but I would like to see what everyone else thinks.
If I was to play a rogue deck at a grand prix(which I would) I would play a combo deck utilizing Knowledge Pool and Curse of Exhaustion, put it in a control shell. And mainboard Nihil Spellbomb or Grafdigger's Cage to stop flashback (for the sole purpose of stoping Ray of Revelation and Ancient Grudge that can stop your combo since it doesn't get exiled by pool when it's cast).
If you expect an aggro-heavy meta, main a playset of Day of Judgment. Again main Grafdigger's Cage for undying stuff, and pod, and reanimator decks. Like you mentioned have the hate.
February 16, 2012 3:43 p.m.
π_is_the_word says... #3
Rouge decks are all fine and good, but if you really want to build a Tier 1 deck then, you have to keep in mind that you will be playing against your own deck for most of the Tournament. This means you will have to test the mirror and semi mirror match considerably and find what you can do to swing the match-up in your favor.
On the other hand, you could choose to go not necessarily Rouge, but instead use a tier 2 strategy(My personal favorite is: Tempered Steel, I have top 32ed a SCG Open and won two SCG IQs with this list.)
With whatever deck you choose, I would suggest doing a hell of a lot of testing against what you assume will be the most popular decks aka Wolf Run Ramp, Delver, Humans, etc. I did about 10 hours of play testing for GP Orlando and I didn't make day 2, so I would suggest +20 hours and you should try to win one of the Grinders if you don't already have 3 byes for the event, byes are amazing and should not be undervalued.
February 16, 2012 4:54 p.m.
My rouge is currently jund. Because it destroys tokens and has a favorable matchup vs delver.
February 16, 2012 10:31 p.m.
_is_the_word: I agree any tier 1 or 2 deck can and will win if piloted by the right person at the right event in the right match ups. A lot more of it comes down to luck than people think but when you can adjust your deck to make up for your luck than your doing good.
I ran Tempered Steel to a few top 8's including a BW List using Vault of the archangel but was severely unimpressed.
I am actually highly considering Grixis at the moment because I get the cheaper board sweeps, I get the draw, I get the disruption, and the sideboard able to deal with all tier 1 and 2 decks. The problem I always had with Grixis was its lack of a finisher that got there fast and hard.
February 17, 2012 7:57 a.m.
I'm currently piloting a Glissa Rock deck. It is very favorable G1 against many decks due to its early aggro (Strangleroot Geist), secondary mana ramp (Solemn Simulacrum, Birds of Paradise), and solid finishers (mainly Grave Titan, if you haven't already ground them out).
I also like that it has access to instant speed removal, board sweeps, enchantment/aritfact hate, flying hate, and graveyard hate post-board.
The Glissa, the Traitor + Ratchet Bomb combo doesn't hurt either =P
As usual, still weak against WWR so I will be tuning my SB for that.
February 20, 2012 1:23 a.m.
π_is_the_word says... #8
I can agree that luck plays a factor in competition, but it is mitigated by the play skill of the pilot and in my case, I have been piloting Tempered Steel for 4 months, so I know how to play every hand and make even an unkeepable hand at least put up a fight(If you looked at my list, designed it to have as many good draws as possible and I find I rarely have to mulligan.)
But, that wasn't what I was talking about I was just putting in my two cents on preparing for GPs, if you test well you should do fine. The biggest point I want to make is the advantage rouge decks have is that people don't know how to board against them. With a Tier 1 deck you are able to succeed only because you know your deck better than your opponents and know how to board against all of your opponents which, if you are just picking up your deck the week before the event, and you don't plan on testing for hours upon hours means you're less likely to do well with the Tier 1 deck.
bosheck says... #1
When you go rogue, one of your most important considerations is the matchup against the current top-tier. For instance, (in my experience) Caw-blade had a terrible time with any sort of turbofog deck.
Going Rogue to a GP often involves building a gauntlet and extensively playtesting your choices--not only do you learn very well how to play against top-tier decks, but you may end up re-evaluating a card in your deck after enough matches.
That said, I miss the fringe decks of yesteryear. Since I put Burning Vengeance
on the back burner, I'd probably hate the meta with a grixis Tezzerdeck mainboarding Grafdigger's Cage
s, Torpor Orb
s, and Nihil Spellbomb
s. The reason is: Between effecient removal, the ability to mainboard useful hate, and the quality of your creatures (Wurmcoil Engine
, 5/5 artifacts, possibily Olivia Voldaren
) you're capable of shutting down top tier decks with ease while you enact your gameplan.
Without testing, though, you can't be sure.
February 16, 2012 10 a.m.