Ho Hum, Just another [[Kuldotha Rebirth]] Goblin Deck?
Features
mikedh1
9 February 2012
4817 views
9 February 2012
4817 views
Why Chandra Morphs Chancelor's Fire Gob Battlecry Army, and other Kuldotha Goblin Decks are some of the better, to best Kuldotha Goblin Decks, to be, and should be viewed, +1'ed:
A Complete Breakdown Comparison
By: mikedh1
This is an article I am writing. I am writing this article because I have a Kuldotha Goblin Battlecry Pump Artifact Burn Deck:
Named:
Chandra Morphs Chancelor's Fire Gob Battlecry Army, on the Goblin, Kuldotha, Mon Red, RDW, Aggro, deck hubs.
This deck for some strange reason only has 900 views, and ranking of 5 +1's, compared to many other goblin decks, that are rated 5 to 70.
I am not only writing this because of that, but because I truly think the deck is 1 of the best, and that a article breaking down the deck, and doing a comparison with other similar concept, theme, builds, and comparing cards, etc, will help not only show why the deck is 1 of the best, but also to help others to improve upon my deck, and their decks, and make the best Kuldotha Red deck possible.
Perhaps the reason why the deck isn't getting as much attention, and why a lot of Kuldotha Goblin Decks aren't getting as much attention, is because the deck concept has been around for a while, and usually altho fast, the decks, don't usually play insanely fast, and usually run out of fuel,steam,mid to late game. Also these decks, are simple agro decks.
Because of that a lot of people might think: "Ho Hum, just another Kuldotha Goblin Deck, and that seen 1 Goblin Deck, seen them all".
Here is why that saying is not true.
DECK BREAKDOWN: 61 cards, 21 lands, 19 creatures
Burn: 13:
3 Spikeshot Elder, 2 Galvanic Blast, 2 Goblin Grenade, 2 Phyrexian Metamorph,
2 shrine-of-the-burning-rage, 2 Chandra, the Firebrand
Pump: 14:
3 Goblin Chieftain, 2 Goblin Wardriver, 2 Signal Pest, 2 Phyrexian Metamorph, 2 Curse of the stalked Prey, 3 Contested Warzone lands
Goblins: 10, Creature removers: all 13 burn cards, Mana Ramp: 8: 3 Mox Opal, 3 Infernal Plunge, 2 Geosurge
Tokens: 6:
3 Kuldotha Rebirth, 3 Chancellor of the Forge
WHY the deck is 1 of the best:
The deck wins by playing extremely fast early to mid game, doing well mid game, doing well late game.
Early turn play:
1st Turn:
The deck can pull off 19 damage at ultimate extreme best 1st turn. It can also drop a Chancellor of the Forge, 1st turn, or a Chandra, the Firebrand, 1st turn, but normally the deck can somewhat sometimes pull off a Goblin Wardriver, Goblin Chieftain, and 3 goblin tokens 1st turn, and a Galvanic Blast or a Goblin Grenade
2nd Turn:
The deck can pull off a 2 turn kill,win, but that is rare. Somewhat some of the time, an cast a Chancellor of the Forge, and or a Chandra, the Firebrand, but that is somewhat almost rare, to uncommon. Can drop Goblin Wardriver + Goblin Chieftain, or Wardriver + 3 goblin tokens, or chieftain + 3 goblin tokens, or 3 goblin tokens + a planewalker, plus a Burn spell, in addition to those.
Turn 3:
The deck can do a turn 3 Kill,win, but that is somewhat uncommon. The deck can somewhat almost normally 1 wardriver + 1 chieftain, 1 war driver + 3 goblins, 1 chieftain + 3 goblins, 1 Planewalker + 3 goblins. Plus a burn spell in addition to all of that.
Turn 4:
The deck can do a turn 4 kill,win, somewhat almost normally,some to most of the time.
In addition to those things above, the deck's 1 to 3 cmc pump, battlecry, pump creatures, contested warzone land(give +1 to all attacking creatures), Curse of the stalked Prey(turns all creatures, into Stromkirk Noble), often produces 3 to 6 3/3's to 6/6's turns 3 to 6
Mid to late game:
Even though the deck is designed to play incredibly, amazingly fast, and to win by turns 3 to 6, the deck has incredible,amazing mid to late game power, during those rare times when the game goes past turn 5, into turns 6 to 8.
There are 5 reasons why the deck does that.
1.Pump, Battlecry:
with all the Pump,battlecryer's, even a 1 red 1/1 goblin can become a 7/7 goblin mid to late game. This is where the all the pump, and Spikeshot Elder, truly shine.
2.Burn: Burn cards like Grenade, Blast do 4,5 damage, and by themselves, kill of big nasty 4/4, 5/5 creatures. But even if foe has 6/6's to 9/9's, can use spikeshot elder + grenade, or Chandra, the Firebrand, Reverberate, Galvanic Blast, Goblin Grenade, to destroy big nasty creatures.
3.Even though they are burn cards, I decided to put them as a separate reason. Chandra, the Firebrand, shrine-of-the-burning-rage. Chandra, and 2 shrine's are like ticking time bomb's that can be used either to help out turns 3 to 5, or to either destroy big nasty foe's creatures, or do 5 to 10 damage to finish off foe turns 6 to 8.
4.Phyrexian Metamorph. This card is so incredible,amazing in this deck. It synergizes with almost everything in deck, is so interchangeable, and versatile. It effective in both late early game, turns 3,4,5. and late game in turns 6,7,8.
Here are some of the things Metamorph can copy: Goblin Chieftain, Goblin Wardriver, Sun Titan, Frost Titan, Grave Titan, Primeval Titan, Inferno Titan, Steel Hellkite, the best dragons, Sheoldred
Flip, Blight Steel Colossus, Vorinclex
Flip, are some of my favorites, that opponents use quite often in their decks.
Phyrexian Metamorph also gets rid of legendary creature and artifact permanents, by copying them, and breaking the legendary rule of only 1 legend allowed onto the board at a time. And all of this is all for 3 colorless mana and 2 life, so even if foe drops something big,nasty or a near win con, on turn 2,3, then can copy it also turn 2,3 easily in this deck.
5.Chancellor of the Forge This card is great enough just by itself in this deck. But when combined with Infernal Plunge, and Geosurge, to get it out turns 2 to 6, and Phyrexian Metamorph to copy it, for 3 mana, is where this card truly shines.
First you can reveal 1 to 3 of them in opening to hand, to get 1 to 3 Goblin token's, and then you can cast it out turns 2 to 6, to produce 3 to 5 goblin tokens(usually hasted by Goblin Chieftain, then pumped by chieftain,or a battlecryer), then you can copy it for 6 to 13 more goblin tokens for 3 mana turns 2 to 6.
And you get a 1,2 5/5 Chancellor's, to go with those pumped goblin tokens. And it's great against Fiend Hunter, a creature that exiles. The reason why its great, is that if if your Chancellor is exiled by Fiend Hunter, then you destroy Fiend Hunter, with a burn spell, or you Metamorph copy,exile Fiend Hunter, which returns Chancellor back, to reenter return to the battlefield, which triggers Chancellor's enter the battlefield effect of producing more goblin tokens. So by exiling Chancellor with Fiend hunter, your foe risk giving you more goblin tokens.
So with Chancellor, you can easily get 16 to 33 goblin tokens.
Now some might say the deck is susceptible to removal, and that is somewhat partly,kind of true. But 1st, you can either use chancellor's ability to deter exiling, and use Autumn's Veil from sideboard to stop blue or black from targeting Chancellor, or Goblin's.
But even if Chancellor, goblins,tokens, are removed, can easily make more of them, and so keep up the pressure up.
So the deck plays incredible,amazing,extremely fast,well early,mid,late game, in all phases of the game. And the deck, and its sideboard has an answer for almost everything.
Against Blue,White control, the decks sheer speed, and good play,baiting, and switching, and Autumn's Veil, Surgical Extraction, Nihil Spellbomb, can, should easily beat blue,white control.
Vs Wolf Run, the deck will play fast do damage fast early turns, then either get a Chancellor out early to late game to match the big fatty's Wolf Run will put out. Or it will have a LOT of 2/2 to 6/6 goblins. Or it will just burn destroy Wolf Run's creatures. Or it will just Burn Wolf Run foe to death. And it will use Tunnel Ignus to do 3 to 6 damage to foe, for each 1 extra land Foe puts out beyond the 1st land out each turn, which makes the foe only put out 1 land each turn, which slows wolf run down.
Or the deck will use Ghost Quarter to destroy Kessig Wolf Run land, and then use Surgical Extraction from Sideboard to get rid of the rest of them.
And against other Tempered Steel, Goblin, Swarm, token decks, it will either just out speed swarm them, or burn remove their creatures, or if necessary use Ratchet Bomb, from the Sideboard to destroy Tempered Steel, and the creatures, and then Surgical Extraction the rest of the Tempered Steel's.
And against Land Destruction, the deck only needs 2 to 4 land.
And against Slagstorm The goblins usually get to be 4/4's or higher.
And if run into Ratchet Bomb, would sideboard in ratchet bombs to deal with Ratchet bombs, and surgical extraction to get rid of the other ratchet bombs.
So the deck has answer's for most things, and doesn't run out of steam, fuel, and is not as susceptible to removal as some might think.
Even the decks weakness of lacking card draw, and not being able to overcome bad draws, thru card draw, is not a big deal.
Its not a big deal because, the deck is built well enough card draw odds wise, and has such a great mana curve, and has such great interchangeable synergy, that for somewhat of the almost most part, it somewhat almost doesn't matter what draw, as what drawn will likely help.
Most of the time Proper mulliganing will help most of the time. But even if lose with a bad draw once in a while, the deck makes up for it by playing so well.
I could put in some Ichor Wellspring, desperate-raving, Panic Spellbomb, to help with card draw. But if did that, there would be less card slots, and some very great awesome cards, would probably have to be cut entirely. And can't afford to take out any of the creatures, none of the mana ramp, none of the burn cards, none of the artifacts,etc.
So there is no room for card draw.
So according to the breakdown, dissecting, dissertation of the deck, as one can see, the deck is, or should probably be 1 of the better to 1 of the best decks, and or equal to other Kuldotha Goblin decks, and is not a "Ho Hum, just another Goblin Deck" and should get more attention,views, +1's etc.
Comparison vs other highly ranked Kuldotha Goblin decks.
Reinventing Kuldotha: 5000 views, 70 +1's by metalmagic, on the same hub's as my deck.
I first made my Kuldotha Goblin, Kiln Fiend, chandra-spitfire, Immolating Souleater Standard Deck, back in the Zendikar Block, and then it cycled out. Then about 35 days ago, I made it standard legal again, and started making changes.
While I was making those changes, I made my deck similar to Reinventing Kuldotha, without realizing it, or even being aware of the reinventing Kuldotha deck. But when I did see that deck during the middle of changing my deck, I thought, this is the most amazing,incredible Kuldotha goblin deck I have ever seen.
The only possible problems I saw with it, was Chancellor of the Forge, and no Geosurge, and or not many ways to get it out earlier, and not enough burn cards, and 4 shrines, instead of 2,3 shrines, and 2,3 Galvanic Blast.
So I decided to see if I could make that deck even more amazing better, then it already was.
Chancellor of the Forge are good,great, IF, IF you have 1 in your opening hand, to go with all the other early turn stuff metalmagic's deck does. Otherwise if don't Chancellor is a dead card, and a dead card slot, until turns 5,6, when can finally cast it out.
Also the chancellor has no synergy to pump, battlecry the other goblins up, and little synergy to produce goblins, tokens, other then its opening hand goblin tokens, and its 7 cmc goblin tokens. Its still a good card in the deck, its just that there are better creature cards, then Chancellor to go into Chancellor's 3 card slots in that deck.
However that is all changed, if you throw in Geosurge, and Phyrexian Metamorph,into the picture. 3 Mox Opal, and 3 Infernal Plunge, and 2 Geosurge's all combine to help Chancellor come out easier, and Metamorph is great at copying Chancellor.
The other problem is the to many shrine-of-the-burning-rage. Yeah the Shrines are great for putting foe on a ticking time bomb, But when I did playtesting and sample hands, of the deck, I found that Shrine didn't do enough burn to get rid of 3/3's turns 2,3 and didn't do 4,5 damage to foe turns 2,3, and that Goblin Grenade often didn't have a goblin to sac turn 2,3, and found myself wanting to be able to Galvanic Blast foe, or creature for 4 damage for 1 red, without having to sac a goblin, slow down my tempo.
2,3 Galvanic blast, 2,3 Grenades, 2,3 Shrine's, and or 2 Chandra, the Firebrand, or 4 Galvanic Blast, 3 Grenades, 3 Shrine's, is better then 4 Grenades, 4 Shrines, or 4 Galvanic Blast, 4 Shrines, As long as have at the very least 12 artifacts, Galvanic Blast should be mixed with Grenades, Shrine's, Chandra's.
For the reason's talked about earlier, Metamorph is equal to, chancellor, and should share slots with chancellor, and should be 2,3 Metamorphs, and 2,3 Chancellors. Chancellor can't get rid of a Blight Steel Colossus or a Sheoldred
Flip, or copy a titan, a dragon, Vorinclex
Flip, etc. And chancellor can't pump,battlecry other goblins.
But Metamorph can copy a chancellor, and thus put out goblin tokens. This is why Metamorph should share slots with Chancellor. That said , Chancellor is great, and Chancellor, Metamorph, and Adaptive Automaton, are the best creatures, for those 3 to 5 card slots.
Also to back up what I am saying, 2 of the top players in Spokane, WA, 1 nicknamed MR STANDARD by 2,3 store's players, who is a great trader, player, wins a lots of FNM's, Booster drafts, etc, the other 1 who beat the top 10th rated magic player in the tristate region, and is himself, considered 1 of the better to best players in Spokane,WA both said that Metamorph was the best option for the slots, then Adaptive Automaton, and then Chancellor, for some of the reasons I just named.
Kuldotha Red Goblin deck, by gman, with about 3300 views, and 14 +1's, on the same hub's as my deck(sorry can't remember the exact deck name)
The deck is almost somewhat similar to my deck, and reinventing Kuldotha deck. it has some great awesome Potential, but is just barely, a little tiny bit overrated.
It has 4 Chimeric Mass, which should be replaced with 4 Memnite. 4 Geosurge, which should be replaced with 2,3 Infernal Plunge, and 2,3 Geosurge's, and doesn't have enough Burn. He should put in either 3 Spikeshot Elder, or 3 Goblin Arsonist. He only has 8 burn cards, which is not enough burn. He has 4 Shrines, and 4 Grenades. He says in his deck description, that's enough burn because of the 2 Reverberate.
But that's not the case, for the same reasons I outlined above. He really should replace the 2 reverberates with 2 Chandra's, and turn 1 grenade, and 1,2 shrines, into 3 Galvanic Blast. Also his 22 creatures is to many creatures. 21 creatures at the extreme most is all he should have at extreme most. 19,20 creatures is better though.
He also has 2,3 Chancellor's in his deck, and he should turn them into 2,3 Metamorph's, 2,3 Adaptive Automaton, 2,3 Chancellor's over just his only his 2,3 Chancellors, for the same reasons, I mentioned above.
As I said, for the same reasons I mentioned before, my deck is probably at the very least equal to, or just barely, a slight improvement, over these other decks, and 1 of the better decks, at the very least.
But despite that the deck is not getting the views, attention, +1's, comments, Help, etc, that other decks have been getting, and that this deck should be getting.
Maybe some don't like me, maybe some don't think a deck should go over 60 cards, maybe some think a deck should have 3,4 of each card. maybe some don't like the $200 price tag of the deck.And maybe some just look at the title, and think: "Ho Hum, Just another goblin Deck, seen 1, seen them all"
I am going to address each of these things.
Not liking me:
If people don't like me, that should not affect how a deck is perceived. I don't think this is an issue.
Not going over 60 cards, 3,4 of each card:
A single color, 2 color deck, should be as close to 60 cards, as possible, 60 to 63 cards, as long as doesn't mess up a possible effective functioning of the deck.
Same with the 3,4 of every card thing, where possible, should try to have 3,4 of as many cards as possible, as long as that doesn't take away from the possible effective functionality of the deck.
For example I run 4 Memnite because its necessary for metalcraft, and for Kuldotha Rebirth, Galvanic Blast, Goblin token making, swarming,etc.
The other cards are almost just as important, but if I run 60 cards, 3,4 of everything, then my deck would not run as well as it does, because I would have to get rid of the Shrines, and the 2 Chandra's, and possibly 1 other card, that I have 2,3 of.
I could run 60 cards, 21 lands, but then I would have to take out either 1 Memnite, or 1 Mox Opal, or 1 Infernal Plunge. doing those things would mess up the deck's early game effectiveness, because mox opal, memnite, infernal plunge wouldn't come out and happen as often, which would make the early turn stuff not happen as often, which would cause the deck to be less effective.
I could also go with 64,65 cards, 23 lands, instead of 61,62,63 cards, 21,22 lands, but I don't need to do that to make sure I have enough of each card to be effective, and going with 65 cards, 23 lands, would probably cause my deck to be less effective.
So whether its less cards, or more cards, or 2,3 of every card, or 3,4 of every card, you do what is needed to make the deck more functionally effective, whether that's 2,3 of every card, or 3,4 of every card, whether that's 60,61,63,65 cards. My deck is very effective, and if I changed the numbers of each card, or ran 60 cards, or 64,65 cards, my deck just wouldn't be as effective.
So really get past the new school thought of 60 cards, 4 of each card thing, and learn that its ok to have less then 3,4 cards, or more then 60 cards, and that there are always exceptions to the rule of thumb rules.
Deck's $200 cost,price.
Some don't like any Goblin deck that's to expensive money wise. They think that if a Goblin Deck or any deck is to expensive money wise, that all the player did was just haphazardly, just obnoxiously pay a lot of money,put a deck together, and that it didn't take any thought, skill,etc to make the deck. Because of that some people punish decks, players, by not viewing,commenting, helping, +1'ing any deck they think is to darn expensive, money wise.
Well I did take some thought in building my deck, and didn't just haphazardly throw the deck together.
Also that leads to another thing, some may think that I am just doing a copy,derivative of another persons deck. Yes my deck is similar, a somewhat derivative of others similar decks.
That doesn't mean that I just simply copy paste, and net deck.
As I said before I originally made most of my deck back in the Zendikar block, and I didn't copy, net deck etc.
And then when I made it standard legal again about 35 days ago, I didn't copy,paste,net deck then. And when I did eventually notice Metalmagic's great awesome deck, I just didn't copy paste,net deck most of his deck to do a derivative of his deck.
My deck was already somewhat to almost very similar to his deck, and so I tried to improve upon his deck, and my similar deck, using my deck, and his deck as a referenced derivatived template, and then started trying to find better cards, that would fit,be better.
So as I said, and as anybody should be able to see, for all the reasons,logic, I used above, my deck should probably be, and is probably at the very least equal to, and or just barely better, improved upon, this and other similar decks, and is, or should probably be, probably is 1 of the better best decks of its kind,theme,concept,etc, and therefore, should get more views, comments, help, +1's, etc then just 900 views, and 5 +1's, relative to the average 1000 views, and 6 to 8 + 1's others have been getting.
So Please view my Kuldotha Goblin Deck, and OTHER similar decks, if want and compare it to other Kuldotha Goblin Decks, if want, using what I have said here in mind.
Hopefully by doing that, that will help create the best kuldotha Goblin Deck possible.
Which I am sure will end up being someone else's deck, as it probably will be a just a matter of time, before someone improves upon, and better's my deck, metalmagic's Reinventing Kuldotha deck, and Gman's Goblin deck, just like I just barely did with Metalmagic's Great Awesome Reinventing Kuldotha deck.
So Please view, +1 my, and OTHER similar decks, compare it to other similar decks, and use my, and other similar decks, and try to improve upon,better mine, and others similar Kuldotha Goblin decks.
Anyways Hope this article was informative, interesting, helpful and that it wasn't to wordy, lengthy, error filled, redundant,etc
End of Article.
Now that the article is over, I open the discussion floor.
Please feel free to please comment, discuss the article, the decks, the comparisons of the Deck's, cards, Kuldotha Goblin decks, ask questions, ask for help with Kuldotha Goblin deck builds, help answer others questions, deck builds, post Kuldotha Goblin deck builds,etc.
Please be respectful, please no trolling, no flaming, please no grammar, spelling nazi's, please no off topic comments.
Note: having different opinions, disagreements of understanding, perception of reasons, logic, facts, truths, etc, is not trolling and flaming
Also please don't just say I am right, everybody else is wrong, but rather please try to convince, persuade other thru logic,facts, explaining why you think, and or are right,etc.
thanks
Mike DH
KorApprentice says... #3
NO MAFTEECHR, DON'T LET HIM SUCK YOU IN AGAIN, HE'S NOT WORTH IT! Also, burkek, run.
February 9, 2012 9:50 p.m.
I'd like to point out that your first sentence doesn't make sense.
Why Chandra Morphs Chancelor's Fire Gob Battlecry Army, and other Kuldotha Goblin Decks are some of the better, to best Kuldotha Goblin Decks, to be, and should be viewed, +1'ed:You're referring to the entire subgroup of decks, Kuldotha Goblin Decks, in how much better they are than the same subgroup of decks, Kuldotha Golbin Decks. It should also be known that the deck type is better known as Kuldotha Red and it did have its heyday in Standard when Zendikar was still legal.It should also be noted that as amazing of a deck you think your deck is you're conclusions are mostly based off of theory and god hands. Which unfortunately do not happen quite as often as people would like. I think you could get a lot more support with actual gameplay analysis instead of just theory and it would help you find potential flaws that do not show themselves on paper.
February 9, 2012 11:23 p.m.
Burkek thanks for commenting, there is little difference in 61 vs 60 cards, card draw odds wise.
Basically the only reason why its not a 60 card deck,is because I run 40 nonlands, 21 lands, .344% land mana ratio percentage, instead of a 40 non lands, 20 lands, .333% mana screwing drought percentage, land mana ratio.
that 1 extra land, and 61 cards, instead of 20 lands, 60 cards, is not going to hurt the deck, IF IF:
the 14 PUMP CREATURES UP CARDS, 13 BURN CARDS, come out often enough to be consistently effective.
I and others do think they come out often enough to be consistently effective enough to go with 61 cards, instead of 60 cards.
Also if I take out 1 nonland card, to goto 60 cards, instead of 61 cards, that would lower the 2 of, 3 of, 4 of, and overall card count down, which would cause the deck to be a little tiny bit less focused consistent, which would negate the reason to go down to 60 cards, in the first place, which would be to make the deck more focused effective.
February 10, 2012 1:17 a.m.
Spoofed what I was basically trying to say, is that I think that there are some Kuldotha Red Goblin Decks, that are better then other Kuldotha Red Goblin decks build wise in how they are built, and that those better kuldotha red goblin decks, should be viewed +1'ed more, then other Kuldotha Red Goblin decks, and other NON kuldotha red goblin decks, other type of decks, etc.
And I think that my deck, and the decks that I compare my deck to in the article like Reinventing Kuldotha, by metalmagic, and maybe some others, should get more views, attention, comments, help, +1's, etc.
That's 1 of the reasons, why I wrote the article, and made what I think is a very good logical case. And I think others will see that too, IF they read, study the article in depth, with a open logical mind, and playtest the deck, over a large sample size, and not just skim read the article.
And you make a good point about playtesting. That's why I played the deck against top FNM tournament green white token agro, tempered steel, black,green,white birthing pod deck, another goblin deck, that have consistently placed top 4,5,6, sometimes higher, sometimes lower at FNM's.
Won 4 of 9 vs green,white aggro. Won 3 of 4 vs Tempered Steel. Won 2 of 4 vs black,green,white Birthing Pod deck. Won 3 of 4 vs RDW(placed 6th FNM), Won 2 of 4 vs a mono green Get er Done Elder, Primordial Hydra, Prime Titan, Hexproof equipment deck, Hex proof (placed 6th FNM), won 3 of 5 vs Mono red goblin deck.
have playtested on a online playtesting simulator, have done lots of sample hands.
So good point spoofed. I will definately continue to do as you have advised, by continuing to playtest it, do sample hands, and playtest it vs other top FNM decks, played, designed by 2 to 4 of the the top,better, to best players, in the Spokane city area.
Thanks for the comment spoofed
February 10, 2012 2:07 a.m.
Ok because mafteechr, and apprentice, and Jodi have made comments, about lack of 3 of's , focus, even though I think I have made a very good, logical case why there is a lot of focus, consistency on 14 pump cards, 13 burn cards, 8 mana ramp cards, 6 goblin token making cards, 10 goblins, etc, then I have decided to playtest the 2 Galvanic Blast, and 2 Geosurges again.
Everybody ele can join me in doing that, if they want.
If I or anybody else honestly truly finds that Galvanic Blast doesn't CONSISTENTLY do 4 damage, instead of 2 damage, and Honestly truly finds, that the 2 geosurges, that when combined with the 3 mox opals, and 3 infernal plunges, doesn't help the Chancellor's, chandra's, come out often, early enough,turns 1,2,3, then I will do the following:
Turn the 2 Galvanic blast, and 2 Geosurges, into 1 more Gob Grenade, for 3 Grenades, 1 more Shrine, for 3 shrines, 1 more Chandra for 3 Chandras, 1 more Curse of the stalking Preys, for 3 curses.
I am going to do that to show, that I do listen, consider what is said, and because its absolutely imperative that Galvanic Blast MUST do 4 damage consistently, or it won't make the cut. And because I would really like to have 1 more curse,for 3 curses, 15 pump cards, instead of 2 curses, 14 pump, 2 more burn cards, for 15 burn, instead of 13, 1 more chsndra for 3 chandra's, instead of 2 chandras.
Those changes would be helpful, but only IF the 2 G blast don't do 4 damage consistently, and IF 2 Geosurges not consistently.
If the Geosurges are taken out, and if the Galvanic blast consistently do 4 damage, then could go with 2 blast, 3 Gob Grenades
And if the Geosurges are consistent, and the G blast are not, then could go with 3 Grenades, and either 3 Shrines, or 3 chandras.
And if both 2 G Blast Consistently deals 4 damage, and if 2 Geosurges are consistent, and if both are consistent, then there would be no changes
February 10, 2012 2:17 a.m.
Ok the article has been published, so I am going start commenting in the article's comment section.
I encourage others to do the same, if they want to.
Thanks Squire for publishing the article
February 10, 2012 2:35 a.m.
mafteechr, and apprentice, your cooments to each other, and to burkek, are borderline Trollative, flamative, overly negative, non constructive, non helpful, wrong, illogical,etc.
Please make better,less wrong, more right, less trollative, flamtive comments, in the future, when, if you comment.
Also when you comment, not everybody is going to agree with you, because maybe your comment doesn't make logical sense to them.
That then gives them, the chance to try to logically explain WHY they don't agree with you, and why what you said didn't make sense to them.
that then after that, is your chance to try to logically clarify, rebuttal, refute, explain, show WHY your right, and to try to CONVINCE, PERSUADE, until they either still don't agree with you, or the partially agree, partially disagree with you, and use some,or none of what you say.
That then after that is my, and others chance to try and do the same
that process is then repeated until both parties agree to either agree or disagree, or partially agree, or partially disagree, and or use or not use, and or partially use, partially don't use, none to some to most to all of what 1 or both parties, sides, said.
If after that process, someone still doesn't agree with you or do as you say, that doesn't mean they don't listen to you, consider what you say to do.
They just don't make sense out of, think your thought process, logic, in what you said to do is right.
That is the process you should follow, but don't. You don't listen to, consider what me, and others who do follow the above process, say, while expecting, commanding, demanding, that me, others do what you say, or that if don't, me, others don't, ever listen, do what you, and or anyone else says to do.
Well your wrong, I have listened to and done some of what others have said, when what others have said make sense to me.
if it don't make sense to me, then probably won't do it.
So please follow the above process mafteechr, apprentice, and don't troll and flame.
Thanks
Mike
February 10, 2012 3:21 a.m.
Ok playtesting Report. Galvanic blast only does 4 damage about 39 to 43 to 53% of the time. And the 2 Geosurges, only helped Chancellor come out turns, 1,2,3, only about 13 to 17% of the time, on turns 1,2,3.
And Turns 3,4,5,6, altho the 2 Geosurges helped the 3 Chancellors come out turns 4,5,6, at least semi consistently, turns 4,5,6, it was redundant with infernal plunge, which already helps Chancellor come out turns 4,5,6,7, semi consistently turns 4,5,6,7.
I must have been very lucky the last time I playtested, to have G blast do 4 damage about 63% of the time, and for Geosurge to help get Chancellor, out turns, 1,2,3,4, a lot of the time.
So because of that, I am going to experiment, test out turning the 2 G blast, and 2 Geosurges, into 3 Grenades, 3 Shrines, 3 Chandras, 3 curses, instead of 2 of each, like before.
So did anybody else test the deck, and if so, did the G Blast, and the 2 Geosurges, do 4 damage, and help bring Chancellor out, early enough and often enough?
After the playtesting, depending on the playtesting, if the new changes aren't as good as they were before, then will undo changes.
Please feel free, if you guys want, to playtest the deck
February 10, 2012 5:50 a.m.
So because of that, I am going to experiment, test out turning the 2 G blast, and 2 Geosurges, into 3 Grenades, 3 Shrines, 3 Chandras, 3 curses, instead of 2 of each, like before.
Hooray! You're taking our advice!
February 10, 2012 7:54 a.m.
lol very funny mafteechr. It's a conditional taking of your advice.
And I am not taking all of the advice. After all jodi thinks Curse of the Stalked prey is stupid, and to totally get rid of, dump them.
Don't get how anybody could think Curse of the Stalked prey is stupid.
Whether or not to take your advice or not is predicated on whether 2 geosurges effectively consistently helps Chancellor come out early turns 1,2,3, or not, and whether G blast consistently does 4 damage instead of 2.
If the 2 geosurge are, were effective, and if the G Blast did 4 damage consistently, then if that were the case, then you should be able to see why I would keep the 2 G blast, and the 2 geosurges, if that were the case, instead of taking your advice
But since I was misled by the initial playtesting, and since the playtesting is now showing G Blast, Geosurge, not to be as effective, then that why I now take your advice and make the changes.
Now if you had said something like, 2 G blast, and 2 Geosurges are not effective, because G Blast doesn't consistently do 4 damage, and Geosurge doesn't consistently help Chancellor come out turns 1,2,3, and here is why, and here is some playtesting result numbers of how G blast didn't consistently do 4 damage, and how Geosurge didn't help chancellor come out turns 1,2,3,4, and that because of that, you should change the 2 geosurges, 2 G blast into 3 curse of the stslked prey, 3 grenades, 3 chandras, 3 shrines, and here is why you should do that, blah blah, etc.
If you had done something like that, I would have taken your advice, because that would have made sense to me.Remember things have to make logical sense to me. So when you give advice, your going to have to sell,convince, persuade me logically, in a way that makes sense to me, with logic, a breakdown, summary of the numbers, percents, ratios, etc.
I know that can be a hassle, and that its much easier, quicker to say something like, you should have 3 of's, because your 2 of's, are not focused.
Well that was illogical, because 14 pump cards and 13 burn cards, is not having a lack of focus.
So if there is a next time please next time try to give advice according to how I am suggesting you give advice.
And thanks for your advice, whether it is agreed with or not, followed or not, advice is always appreciated
February 10, 2012 1:28 p.m.
Don't get how anybody could think Curse of the Stalked prey is stupid.
I've never seen a successful red deck run it. Results like that show that it may not be good.
February 10, 2012 1:54 p.m.
That's because Curse of the stalked prey altho great, is only great in a couple, few, some decks.
Those decks would be: Werewolf, Vampire stromkirk noble, Goblin, in other words, mono red, or red, green blitz aggro decks.
The problem with Curse of the stalked prey, is you have to have a great supporting cast around it to make it work. You need to have fast 1/1's or 2/1's, or 1/2's or 2/2's for zero,1,2 mana, out turn 1,2, then get them thru to deal damage, over and over, and over.
that's hard to do even with aggro decks. First usually only have 1 or 2 1/1 to 2/2's out, then only 1,2 get thru while the other 1,2 get blocked die.
And then they only get a +1, and then next turn you either get none thru, or only 1 thru, and only a +1, then next turn none can get thru.
that's why for curse to be effective, you have to not only get lots of weenies out fast turn 1,2, and then attack turns 2,3 to pump them up with curse, but also have to constantly use removal to get your dudes thru doing damage, and getting pumped by curse.
that's why Curse of the stalked prey is so good in a kuldotha Red Goblin token deck, that has a lot of pump cards, like chieftains, battlecryers, etc
If I drop a spikeshot elder and a curse of prey or a pest 1st turn, and then drop a curse or 1 or 2 pest 2nd turn, then attack 2nd turn, it likely wont get blocked 2nd turn so now elder is a 2/2.
Then turn 3 you drop a Goblin chieftain. and if you have a metalcrafted opal out by then, if there is a blocker, you remove it, and then attack, and now Elder becomes a a 4/4(+1 from the 2nd turn attack, +1 from chieftain, +1 from 3rd turn attack)
Turn 4, you drop a wardriver, and or a pest, then you pay 3 mana deal 4 damage to remove foe's blocker, now Elder attacks as a 6/4 and becomes a 5/5
Turn 5 if foe hasn't died by turns 3,4, they are dead now on this turn, or next turn.
It's the cumalitive effect of all the +1's from chieftain, the battlecryers, and curse of the stalked prey, and the super fast goblins, and the burn removal, that combine to form VOLTRON, that makes curse of the stalked prey so nasty.
And that was just 1 curse, imagine if you had 2, or 3 of them out at the same time early.........
February 10, 2012 2:35 p.m.
I have playtested the changes, and they are great. 3 chandras and 3 Shrines and 3 Grenades, and 3 curses are great, the right perfect number of them.
4 shrines, or 4 chandras are just 2 many, and 2 of each is not enough, but 3 of each is just right.
If playtesting hadn't misled me earlier, I would have put the changes in earlier. I was already considering those specific changes before mafteechr, apprentice, jodi and others suggested them.
But I got sidetracked, misled by the earlier playtesting making the G Blast seem like they would consistently do 4 damage, and the Geosurges seem like they would consistently get Chancellor out turns 1,2,3,4.
But since the new playtesting showed the 2 G blast, and 2 Geosurges to be inconsistent, and the suggested changes to be great, then I am going to follow, do those suggestion, and make the changes official permanent.
I am glad that I playtested after the changes were suggested. if I hadn't I would have found out the hard way at FNM. or even worse yet, I could have gotten very lucky, and placed top 2,3, had the 2 G Blast consistently do 4 damage, and the 2 Geosurges be consistent, and thought the changes weren't needed, and then found out the even harder way later.
So thanks for the suggestions, and causing me to playtest, figure this all out.
Now all I need to do is go buy and or trade for another chandra, and some shrines(shrines have been hard to find, buy, trade for, in my local meta).
If I get those, I will play the deck in FNM tonight, and give a report on FNM
February 10, 2012 5:29 p.m.
If I drop a spikeshot elder and a curse of prey or a pest 1st turn, and then drop a curse or 1 or 2 pest 2nd turn, then attack 2nd turn, it likely wont get blocked 2nd turn so now elder is a 2/2.
Then turn 3 you drop a Goblin chieftain. and if you have a metalcrafted opal out by then, if there is a blocker, you remove it, and then attack, and now Elder becomes a a 4/4(+1 from the 2nd turn attack, +1 from chieftain, +1 from 3rd turn attack)
Turn 4, you drop a wardriver, and or a pest, then you pay 3 mana deal 4 damage to remove foe's blocker, now Elder attacks as a 6/4 and becomes a 5/5
Turn 5 if foe hasn't died by turns 3,4, they are dead now on this turn, or next turn.
Please hear me out on this:
You describe these situations which would make Curse of Stalked Prey a wonderful card. But, you're relying on A LOT of cards in order for it to be so effective.
Real advice you should consider: the meta right now will have quite a bit of tokens and mono-green. What does this mean? There will be a lot of creatures ready to block your guys, rendering the Curse very ineffective. What would be more effective? Probably more burn in it's place, to at least guarantee your guys even deal damage. What would you rather have? Your opponent Cursed and your guys getting blocked, dealing no damage? Or getting rid of their guys and dealing damage?
February 10, 2012 7:17 p.m.
thats a very good point, which is why I have the ratchet bombs in the sideboard, and why the curse is a sideboard out slot.
If my deck was any other deck type, I would get rid of the curse for more burn. If I have 1 or 2 Chancellors, in opening hand, thats 1,2 tokens right there, and then 1 or 2 memnites, thats 3,4 creatures there 1st turn. Then if Kuldotha Rebirth, that's 6 creatures 1st turn.
now I realize that's not going to happen, all the time so usually I have 2,3 creatures out first turn easily, often, consistently. By turns 2,3 I have 4 to 7 creatures out, by turns 3,4 I have 6 to 9 out. That's a lot of creatures to block.
But lets say they keep up 1st game, I side in ratchet bomb, and all their tokens, and or 1,2 cmc critters, no matter how big they are, are gone. That can easily happen on turns 1,2,3,4, thus allowing my 1/1's to get thru deal damage, and then become 2/2's.
That's why I don't sideboard Slagstorm(altho I am thinking of sideboarding 2 ratchet bombs, and 2 arc trail's to deal with what you are talking about.) Slagstorm would not deal with with what your talking about.
There's a reason why the Reinventing Kuldotha deck has 70 +1's, if Curse of the Stalked Prey, is bad, don't you think that the 83 commenters, would have suggested the same as you, or that his deck wouldn't have gotten as many +1's as 70 +1's?
Against most decks, curse prey in my deck will work great. And against decks that can shut curse prey down, that's what the sideboard is for.
This problem tho is another reason why I like other burn cards over Shrine's. If I run 3 signal pest, and 3 metamorphs, and take out the 2 wardrivers, and cut the shrines and run 3 arc trails, that would maintain my artifact count for metalcraft for mox opal and rebirth to have, target.
And 3 chandra's is equal to or better then 3,4 shrines anyways.
So by putting in 3 Arc Trails, or 3 Galvanic Blast, I would get to keep my curse prey cake and get to eat it to.
Either way this is a problem that needs to be dealt with by either taking out the shrines, curse, or thru the sideboard.
Thanks for bring this up. So what do you think? I am leaning toward the taking out the shrines, and then putting the G Blast back in, and then siding 2 Arc trails, and 2 Ratchet Bombs
February 10, 2012 8:17 p.m.
mikedh, could you link to cards more? I usually know what card you're talking about, but having the specific wording & little blue links everywhere helps make things look better.
February 12, 2012 8:45 a.m.
I have already linked to the cards I have been talking about previously several times. In the previous post above, and in the article.
So if anybody wants to know what a Goblin Chieftain does all they have to do is go to 1 of the post above, or the article.
But if that is to much hassle for people to do, and since you did ask, I can link to cards more even if they are already linked above.
February 12, 2012 12:28 p.m.
Because of the very gopod pointmafteechr made above, and because I playtested a tempory change, as a possible solution to the problem that mafteechr pointed out, I am making the following changes permanet.
Making these changes has made me decide which path, pieces of cake I want. Would be nice to have both Shrine of the Burning Rage(broken link), and Chandra, the Firebrand, and Curse of the stalked Prey.
So have to decide which is most effective. Since Chandra, is the same as Shrine but better because if also reverberates, and has ultimate ability to do 6 damage to foe, his board, Shrine gets cut.
That then allow the Shrines to be turned into 3 Galvanic Blast, and since that makes it so that I can remove creatures better,faster then shrine, so that Goblins get thru, do damage, get bigger, because of Curse Prey, then Curse Prey Stays in, and Shrine gets cut.
And because Galvanic Blast is in, that maes it possible to go with 3 Phyrexian Metamorph instead of just 2, and 3 Signal Pest, instead of 2 Pest and 2 Goblin Wardriver,(which gets cut). And Pest helps give Galvanic Blast, and Mox Opal Metalcraft, and feeds Kuldotha Rebirth better, which will synergize, cause the deck to play faster.
I would like the have the Wardrivers, because they are 2/2's that battlecry, that can be pumped by Goblin Chieftain, and other pumper, and thus resist removal better, but since they are not a artifacft, and cost 2 mana instead of 1, they are slower.
Pest, altho easier to remove, only cost 1 mana, are artifacts, battlecry pump, are harder to block, can be pumped, except not by Chieftain. It was a very hard choice to decide betwen Pest or Wardriver.
Now if I had turned the 3 Cyrse Preys, into 3 Shrines, then since would have more artifacts, then I might have gone with 3 Wardrivers, over Pest, because Chieftain can pump Wardrivers.
If I took out the 3 Curse Preys tho, I would have turned them into 1 Kuldotha Rebirth, for 4 of them, 1 Goblin Grenade, for 4 Goblin Grenades, instead of 3, 1 Wardriver. Turn 1 Pest into 1 Wardriver, for 2 Pest, 2 Wardrivers, 20 creatures, and turned the 3 Galvanic Blast, into 3 Shrines.
But I am going to go with the Curse Preys, and the 3 Galvanic Blast, and 3 Grenades, and 3 Rebirths, and 3 Pest, 19 creatures, instead, because in playtesting, Spikeshot Elder just didnt pump up enough to be as effective, without the curse preys.
Also 4 Rebirths, often gives a rebirth with nothing to use it on, where that doesnt happen as often with 3 of them.
So the these changes are permanent now.
February 12, 2012 1:27 p.m.
I have created a Meta Maybe Switchboard, that is kind of like a combination of a sideboard, switchboard, Maybe board.
I put all the cards in this special board, in,on the maybe board section of the deck page's deck list.
In Between tournaments, depending on local,regional Meta, I will sideboard cards, in and out, as if it was a sideboard, BETWEEN TOURNAMENTS(legal), and NOT NOT between games, matches, in a tournament(NOT legal).
I have explained how I will do this and what I will switchboard sideboard in and out for what, in a comment on the deck page.
Here is the Meta Maybe Switchboard, Maybe board:
3 Arc Trail, 3 Shrine of Burning Rage, 3 Goblin Wardriver, 3 Curse of Stalked Prey, 3 Galvanic Blast, 3 Signal Pest
The Base Deck list is still the same, and the G Blast, Pest, Curse Prey, are still part of the base deck list on the linked deck page.
They are only on the Switchboard, because, they will be switched out, when stuff from the switchboard are sided in.
February 12, 2012 5:33 p.m.
I'd jus Fling Okk's all day' an Goblin Grenade the Goblin Arsonist..
February 13, 2012 10:51 p.m.
Olowleye: OKK is not standard legal, and even if it was, it can't attack or block. Yes you could Fling it, but then you would only get 4 damage, out of the 2 cmc fling. Also would have to run 3 OKK's, and that would cause you to get screwed, if you had OKK's, out, and didn't have any flings. And if you have fling and no OKK's, or no Chancellor's out, then your going to wish you had a Galvanic Blast, or a Goblin Grenade instead.
This is why Galvanic Blast, and Goblin Grenade is better then fling.
Spikeshot Elder is better then Goblin Arsonist, or Goblin Fireslinger, in this deck. I can use Spikeshot Elder, and Grenade, just as easily as Arsonist and Grenade. And Arsonist is a 1 time shot thing.
Spikeshot Elder can consistently do 2 to 4 damage, over and over by pumping the Spikeshot Elder up, and then paying 3 mana to activate Spikeshot Elder's ability to do 2 to 4+ damage to target player or creature. I can do that with Spikeshot Elder 1 to 2 times per turn, after turns 2,3,4,5.
So that's why Spikeshot Elder is better, in this deck, with the right support cards around it.
February 18, 2012 6:57 p.m.
If want to see a FNM Report, I posted a FNM report in a comment on my deck list page for my deck.
I had to mullingan 5 games out of 3 matches, and had to double mulligan, and tripple mulligan. So only consistently only getting 1 land, or no land, or all land, mulliganning, bad draws, etc really screwed me.
I did learn something though. mafteechr is right that with all the tokens, swarm, aggro, hordes, undying,zombie, spirits, etc,l in the meta now, I am going to need more burn.
That's why I turned the 3 Curse of Stalked Prey into 1 Goblin Wardriver 1 Galvanic Blast 1 Goblin Grenade , for 4 Galvanic Blast, and 4 Grenades, instead of 3 of each.
And if need to between tournaments can either turn 1 Phyrexian Metamorph , and 1 Galvanic Blast, and 1 Grenade, into 3 Arc Trail , or into 3 Curse of Stalked Prey , depending on the meta, and on whether meta is play fast aggro swarm decks, or whether playing slower decks, with bigger creatures.
These changes, should help, as I was 1 Galvanic Blast, and or 1 grenade, and or 1 Arc Trail away from winning 1, or 2 more games, matches, if I had, had just 1 more burn spell, which would have placed me in the prize pool, despite the EPIC BAD LUCK, DRAWS, mulligans, double mulligans, triple mulligans, I was having
February 18, 2012 7:15 p.m.
yea, i just enjoy flinging the big bastuard haha. Spikeshot Elder is pretty wicked though. I wouldnt mind using some Act of Treason so you can Infernal Plunge the sac creature an use that 3red mana for Spikeshot Elder's ability. sort of a strange combo though would be a sweet removal with the added burn.
April 12, 2012 1:47 p.m.
definately going to have to add 4 Vexing Devils, and 2 Thunderous Wraths to this deck.
$ Goblin Grenades, 3 Vexing Devils, 2 Thunderous Wraths, 3 Brimstone Volleys, 3 Chandra's, Burn City.
So going to have to make some changes to the deck.
burkek says... #1
Consistency is the reason you need to trim down your deck size. The reason Kuldotha Red didn't win every single game it ever played in zendikar standard is that it wasn't consistent. It had explosive draws, and it had a very fast clock. It did not get an explosive draw every game, and neither does your deck. You need to trim your deck down to 60 cards so that you have a higher percent chance of getting the cards you want when you want them and the explosive turn 1 draw this archetype needs to win.
February 9, 2012 8 p.m.