Community Set Playtesting (Round 4)

Community Set

squire1

3 September 2012

2620 views

Hello everyone, we are still in the playtesting portion of the community set design. We are now in what I would like to think is the last round of playtesting. In this round I would like to concentrate on a couple of cards that have been changed and need a little more testing. These cards are:

  • Fetid evolution slight change to this guy to make it a little less broken.
  • Common lands - these were switched to panoramas, we need to know if that helps with fixing
  • Sources of Knowledge - Made changes to try and cover the many issues this card causes
  • Element of Chaos - serious changes to this guy
  • Palus lizrd tail - attempts to balance this with the rest of the cycle

Reminder of what exactly do we need format he playtesting?

Glad you asked, we are looking for feedback on how the cards play in varying formats as well as any editing issues that may need to be resolved. We need people to actually play and build decks with these cards and provide anecdotal feedback on how the cards did or di not play well and what could be done to fix it.

What do we not need?

Opinions about how cards are over/under powered with no play test justification. If you have no evidence for a statement it will be ignored.

We are playtesting in the following:

  1. Draft
  2. Sealed
  3. Standard
  4. Extended
  5. Modern
  6. Legacy
  7. Vintage
  8. EDH/Commander

All input that you have should be described in the comment lines below of this article. If you are supplying input related to the way in which the rules text is written please provide a card that indicates precedence.

File to download

Magic Set Editor File
Magic Workstation file

Images

Click here to see the full set of cards.
Card images in rar archive

Have fun guys. Also we are still accepting artwork and and edits to flavor text that are needed (submit these to [email protected]). Get the feedback flowing!

This article is a follow-up to Community Set Playtesting (Round 3)

pookypuppy6 says... #1

Okay, so I'm looking at the set images again, trying to be as nitpicky as I can. The cards now looks pretty good, with many ones that have great designs like Pathcutter Zombie, True Judgement, Aether Tap and Revival of the Fittest. Here are my nitpicks.

1) Some of the cards have way too much text to be attractive. Symbiotic Meltdown is the prime criminal, with Suzaku, Vermillion Celestial next in line. Anyway these can be shortened?

2) Collector's Stone has "return that card (noncreature spell) to it's owner's hand as it resolves unless..." You can always just take a line out of Venser, Shaper Savant and say "return that spell to it's owner's hand". It'll do the same thing, I'm pretty sure.

3) Sunthorn Ravager has two different abilities devoted to the same effect, one to power and one to toughness. Can't this all be in the same sentence. So, "If an effect would decrease Sunthorn Ravager's power or toughness, its power or toughness increases by that amount instead" Then it would be shorter and be more snappy.

4) Jeweled Viper reads "1GG: Jeweled Viper must be blocked this turn" Should read; "must be blocked this turn if able"

5) Acidic Nightcrawler reads "If Acidic Nightcrawler would place -1/-1 counters on a creature, it places twice that many counters on that creature instead" I don't think pluralizing it like this is regular formatting. Reformat it so you just have to say "whenever it puts A -1/-1 counter on something put two instead" WITHOUT making it an infinite loop.I'll post again if I see anything else.

September 4, 2012 9:41 a.m.

hubatish says... #2

Viscous Plasma kills itself as soon as a new turn starts, as power and toughness equal to number of cards you've drawn this turn will always be 0 at the start of a new turn, and you can't respond to the state based action of destroying a creature with 0 toughness (I believe that's how it works). Give it +1/+1 for each card drawn this turn; & the tap effect to activate this indefinite ability is probably unnecessary.

I love the interaction between the Panoramas and the land cards in graveyard theme. Could the word "basic" be removed from Needs of the Glade to support this interaction?

Sprawling Thoughts is still badly worded. The searching player must shuffle their library. Try like this: "Search your library for up to two basic land cards, reveal them, shuffle your library, then put one onto the battlefield, and the second on top of your library. Draw a card."

"the second" could also be "the remaining" or simply "the other", and I think all of those will work. At least, I think it clearly shows the intent, as I don't think there's any precedent for up to & doing 2 different things with the cards.

September 4, 2012 10:49 a.m.

pookypuppy6 says... #3

6) The two clauses of Psychic Mongoose should be in separate paragraphs.

7) Eccentric Foliage should be all one paragraph, as the sacrifice effect shouldn't be separate from the X effect (where X is the number of creatures sacrificed this way).

8) Life Force Of Morglen (not a very polished name for a card, should really be reduced to three words) has "Whenever a token enters the battlefield..." I know it would change the meaning, but it really should say token creature, as opposite to nontoken creature.

9) Palus Lizard Tail. For 2, you get to ressurect a creature at instant speed, then recover the mana later. All on a colourless artifact. I think the effect should be changed so it is not so severe. I don't know, how about it puts a token into play, or a copy of an existing token like Populate does? That would be Morglen-themed themed.

10) Irindu Panorama and Sorok Panorama have a weird space between the two clauses, so formatting error there.

11) Pack Wurm's "3 or more creatures" should not be written as a number; it should read "three or more creatures".

September 4, 2012 11:06 a.m.

hubatish says... #4

I managed to convert the cards into XML for Cockatrice. Download this and place it in C:UsersNadia HowellAppDataLocalCockatriceCockatrice, replacing the old cards.xml (make a copy of the old one though!) Unfortunately I still seem to have the old card images (from http04error's file), but the card's text is updated.

September 4, 2012 3:13 p.m.

pookypuppy6 says... #5

I'll see if I can get this downloaded into Cockatrice and then do my Fat Pack deckbuilding test (make a deck out of 9 boosters in Set Editor, then play 'em against similar decks). Thanks hubatish! I'll see if I can get it working.

September 4, 2012 3:19 p.m.

pookypuppy6 says... #6

Nope. For some reason I STILL don't have an AppData folder, and I can't even make one because it won't allow me. When I try to copy the xml into a Program Filesx86/Cockatrice/cards folder and then change the path to card database, it stops Cockatrice from working.

Can anyone help? Or at the very least, can someone send me an Apprentice file, because that I know how to use?

September 4, 2012 3:59 p.m.

pookypuppy6 says... #7

Ooh, scratch that. Got it working somehow! I'll let you know how my testing goes.

September 4, 2012 4:06 p.m.

Lectrys says... #8

hubatish, for some reason, when I downloaded your file into Cockatrice, quite a lot of the cards had their images replaced by that of Tundra Kavu . For example, Elvish Swamphand and Lingering Pursuit were unaffected, but Chavest's Spirit and Dasvol, Tharin'l Superior were affected. Can you please fix this?

September 4, 2012 8:46 p.m.

pookypuppy6 says... #9

I had that too, with Gestating Blowfly and one of the panoramas curiously. It's not too big a deal, Cockatrice lets me know what each card does anyway.

September 4, 2012 8:52 p.m.

hubatish says... #10

Yeah, I'm not sure why that happened. I believe I have the incorrect image URL (if someone could provide the correct one that would be great), but if you just look at the text it doesn't matter too much.

September 5, 2012 11:07 a.m.

Lectrys says... #11

I think I've found out that Forced Sanctions may not work as intended. I've read about "the Nightmare Effect"--if a permanent leaves the battlefield with its "enters the battlefield" triggers on the stack, its "leaves the battlefield" triggers go on the stack on top, so the LTB triggers occur, then the ETB triggers occur. (It's called "the Nightmare Effect" because it commonly appears on cards like Mesmeric Fiend , a Nightmare.) Therefore, you can resolve Forced Sanctions, and with its ETB trigger on the stack, pay 3 life to destroy it. Thus, its LTB trigger (return the nonexistent exiled card to the battlefield) occurs first, then its ETB trigger (exile target nonland permanent) occurs.

Given that it basically reads, "Sorcery WB, Pay 3 life: Exile target nonland permanent", I believe Forced Sanctions is currently too strong as a common. Can you please change it?

Also, Life's Cycle Diciple should be spelled Life's Cycle Disciple.

September 5, 2012 9:51 p.m.

Lectrys says... #12

Sorry, I mean Life Cycle's Disciple.

September 5, 2012 9:57 p.m.

squire1 says... #13

I think that the intent of forced sanctions was to be oblivion ring that could be gotten rid of, hence weaker than o ring

September 5, 2012 9:58 p.m.

xantm70 says... #14

@ squire1 : I could be wrong with the tempo of the card, but if Forced Sanctions has resolved, that triggers the ETB ability at instant speed, which you can then interrupt at instant speed with the activated ability of "Pay 3 life: destroy Forced Sanctions," causing it to leave the battlefield, triggering its LTB ability at instant speed. So, the stack would look something like this:

  1. Pay WB: Cast Forced Sanctions.
  2. Forced Sanctions resolves, and as an ETB, targets a nonland permanent to be exiled.2.a. Pay 3 life: Destroy Forced Sanctions. The caster loses three life.2.a.i. The LTB effect triggers, failing to target a creature that has been exiled, since no creature has been exiled yet.2.a.ii. The LTB effect resolves. Nothing happens yet.2.b. The activated ability resolves, and Forced Sanctions is destroyed, being sent to the graveyard.
  3. The ETB ability resolves, and the above targeted nonland permanent is irrevocably exiled (assuming it isn't Misthollow Griffin ).
Congrats, you have now exiled something permanently at Sorcery speed for 2 mana and 3 life at common scarcity. That is far stronger than O-Ring. Lectrys is right; if that card is going to be worded the way it is, making it a common is absurd, and if that card is going to be a common, there should be a caviat that reads, "Pay 3 life: Destroy Forced Sanctions. It cannot be regenerated. Any player may activate this ability, but only when they could normally cast a sorcery."
September 10, 2012 4:38 p.m.

squire1 says... #15

What if only opponents can pay the three life, then you can't use it to your advantage.

September 10, 2012 4:59 p.m.

xantm70 says... #16

That might work, but that would constrict options on the caster's side. One of the perks of locking your own things down under enchantments is to have a way to have something obscene survive an otherwise unpleasant condition, or to get advantage when you need it most. So, with an enchantment that you can pay in life to have removed, as a caster, you could bank a permanent with an ETB effect under Forced Sanctions and give up three life to have it return to play again when you need it most. In fact, with a set as heavy on ETB and LTB as this one, I can think of dozens of reasons it would be great to have the option to store one of my critters for later.

September 10, 2012 5:48 p.m.

hubatish says... #17

I thoroughly dislike Forced Sanctions. It's a punisher card, like Browbeat , and yet the damage upside is only 3. Aside from xantm70's application targetting your own creature, it's a really terrible Lava Spike . Conditional Lava Spike is pretty bad even in Aggro, and terrible in control. Maybe: "sacrifice a land and a nonland permanent". (or something involving sacrificing a permanent).

September 11, 2012 8:39 a.m.

squire1 says... #18

that works. i could see that.

September 11, 2012 8:58 a.m.

pookypuppy6 says... #19

Don't see why Forced Sanctions is such a problem. At low life totals it locks an opponent's creature down, and gives an opponent difficult decisions late-game when handling a dwindling life resource. Isn't that what WB does anyway (not necessarily in this plane, but in general). Besides, I like to think of it as a "beginner" card, although I understand that's not very useful in a community set for avid and experienced players.

hubatish's suggestion is worth trying, but the life loss seems exactly the kind of thing WB would do. Up the life loss to 4 maybe? I don't know.

September 11, 2012 1:23 p.m.

Tosub says... #20

What is the method for drafting this please?

September 14, 2012 6:23 a.m.

squire1 says... #21

What do you mean, method?

September 14, 2012 6:24 a.m.

Tosub says... #22

I mean, how is this set drafted? It does not appear to be an option when setting up a draft sim.

September 14, 2012 7:03 a.m.

squire1 says... #23

Yeah not through the site. You have to either print the cards out or use a system like MWS or cockatrice to do it.

September 14, 2012 7:51 a.m.

Tosub says... #24

Cockatrice has an internal draft? We always use tapped out or CCG, neither of which appears to allow custom card drafts or cubes.

September 17, 2012 10:43 p.m.

squire1 says... #25

Yeah it should. The sites don't allow it.

September 18, 2012 6:24 a.m.

hubatish says... #26

I have no idea how to draft these cards (Cockatrice does not have a drafter). I've been doing Sealed using Magic Set Editor to generate random packs and then adding cards to a deck in Cockatrice.

September 18, 2012 10:14 a.m.

squire1 says... #27

should be able to draft in MWS

September 18, 2012 10:16 a.m.

skyb0rg says... #28

i would reword forced sanctions to exile AS it enters to stop shenanigans.

December 29, 2012 2:42 p.m.

pookypuppy6 says... #29

Any news on the Community Set's progress? Will it be put up on the site?

December 29, 2012 2:56 p.m.

Enratic says... #30

Can anyone explain to me how I can start creating cards for this? Because I have some good ideas.

January 20, 2013 1:47 p.m.

pookypuppy6 says... #31

You're a bit late I'm afraid Enratic; the set is already full on cards and this round of playtester merely concludes the fine-tuning of the cards to make the set work properly. I still have no idea what is happening at the moment with them, but I'm afraid card design was a long while back.

January 20, 2013 8:14 p.m.

Enratic says... #32

Oh xdWell thats fine I will wait for the next set!Thanks!

January 20, 2013 8:20 p.m.

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