+1 Clan Defiance

We might not even end up with the colors to play it, but it's easily the strongest card here. The rest of the pack is also not exactly color-friendly to us, and is underwhelming.

It's worth mentioning on this thread that if you post the exact same comment as someone else on the page, you overwrite their comment. If you want to make sure your vote stays on the page and doesn't get deleted by someone else's vote, make sure you have something in your post that makes it unique.

+1 Firemane Avenger

A 3/3 flier for 4 mana is pretty good. Lightning Helix on a stick is amazing. And it's one red, so it'll be easy to splash for. And seeing this, Wojek Halberdiers , and Skyknight Legionnaire gives strong signals that more boros might be heading our way. At the very least more red is heading our way

Clan Defiance is really good but it's unlikely we're going to go both green and red.

Side note: There's one black card in this entire pack. Just sayin

Our main colors are 1. White, 2. Black, 3. Green.we have to splash red whether we pick Clan Defiance or Firemane Avenger . Thus the card that has our primary color involved should be the pick

+1 Firemane Avenger

+1 Firemane Avenger

Completely Agree with mccracka I'd prefer the solid flier thats at least 50% in one of our colors for sure, and easily splashable. I think Its safe to assume that we'll continue to see a lot more boros and straight red coming to us this pack. I'd definitely jump on it.

-1 Clan Defiance

+1 Firemane Avenger

Wow. Didn't even see that it was a double rare pack. The Avenger is definitely a better fit for our current build... if we speed it up a bit. Lightning Helix on a stick is good, if we ever get an opportunity to activate Battalion. Otherwise it's just a 3/3 flyer.

+1 Firemane Avenger

I am a little concerned at the lack of black in this pack, but while we're here, the avenger is another nice flying with an awesome battalion ability.

I kno we picked 2x stab wound out the gate, and we were feelin black as a predominant color, but looking at the list of card's we have so far, white is by far our predominant color up to this point, based on that, I say we ride that from this point on, there's an awesome Firemane Avenger we can pick, at the same time, Clan Defiance is an insanely good burn spell, albeit's G/R cost, if we had more green/red cards thus far I'd vote for it, but we have a major majority on white up to this point so the vote is for;

Firemane Avenger

Based on that we would have to build Chavest, B/R/W to utilize our best picks thus far, but I like that better than going esper or some dual color deck, I think a 3 color deck is optimal and Chavest should be our goal at this point. Unless of course we nut boost some other colors going forward..

The only problem is wanting blue, which is why I mentioned going esper, but if anything, we could be crazy and go 4 color esper with a splash of red, or we could just be insane and run a five color deck..

+1 Firemane Avenger

not too hard of a choice

+1 Forced Adaptation We have too many defensive creatures to make Firemane Avenger worth mainboarding at this point. That being said, I dont want to see it used against us.I'm very very very intrigued by Forced Adaptation . Works with our "theme", and if we put it in a flier, we have a very serious threat.

I'm going to vote for Forced Adaptation , being totally okay with the Firemane Avenger that we will inevitably get.

+1 Firemane Avenger for reasons stated by ITSOVER9000!!!!.

+1 Firemane Avenger

Let's think about which card we would rather see against us. The Avenger is at least a 3/3 in the air, at worst a Lightning Helix on legs.

The Clan Defiance might remove 2 creatures and hit our face. But it's a one-time threat that really doesn't hurt that bad unless the opponent can manage 10+ mana.

I think it's pretty clear which we would rather see on the other side of the table, and its not the lightning armed angel.

+1 Firemane Avenger

Honestly, even "just" a 3/3 flyer for 4 is very solid and something I'd play (though I might not be happy about playing a vanilla 3/3 flyer for two colors). Her battalion ability is just icing on top.

+1 Firemane Avenger
I don't want it staring at us from the other side of the board.

+1 Firemane Avenger

I do also like the Forced Adaptation , and think it would be a good pick for our deck, but at the same time there's a fairly good chance that it will table back to us.

I also have noticed the complete lack of black getting passed to us. Black is probably the most competed color at the moment at the table (at least 4 black cards were removed from our first RTR pack on it's first pass around, that's half the players drafting), and it wouldn't be a bad idea to transition into a more Boros type strategy if they are going to pass us all of those lovely cards since we did a pretty good job of chocking white to our left in our RTR packs, and they are passing all that white to us in these GTC packs.

+1 Firemane Avenger , not getting stuff we were planning on. but hell looks like we will have an army of flying angel bombs

You know, ending up with Black, White, and Red wouldn't be so bad either... if all these decent Boros picks keep coming our way.

+1 Firemane Avenger

This is such a DUH pick it makes last pick seem kinda headscratchy.

That said, we definitely have some of the makings to go hard boros... or as sewellius says, a WBR build could be done, no problem. We can pick up either a boros or orzhov guildgate in this set and the next, so if that's the direction we want it is within our grasp.

Also don't miss mccracka's note - Someone definitely wants the black cards coming from the opposite direction.

+1 Firemane Avenger

Why DO we have two rares in this pack?

@Goody Firemane Avenger is a lucky foil pull.

This pack seems pretty unanimous as well. I'm glad we're getting some powerful cards. These last two picks work pretty good together.

+1 Firemane Avenger

For reasons stated above, but Clan Defiance is good too. Won me many a draft, especially against teysa

+1 Firemane Avenger

Clan Defiance is easily the best card in this pack but most likely not playable with our current colors. The Avenger on the other hand has a chance if we get some Boros gates or stones.

+1 Firemane Avenger

I agree with all the arguments posted in favor of it to this point, but I'll reiterate; We have a lot of White already, and we were just passed a pack with a BUNCH of Boros-color cards! Skyknight Legionnaire got passed? Firemane Avenger got passed? Wojek Halberdiers and Skinbrand Goblin too? PSSSHHHHH, with this booster alone I'd love to recommend going Chavest (Mid-range) colors with the primary focus being R/W aggro with B splashed for the control element...

Then again, what do I know?

+1 Firemane Avenger

+1 Firemane Avenger

i just like it

This is a pretty solid validation of my estmation that Boros is open on our immediate left. Hopefully that means more on our left aren't in red or white and our strategy can begin to pay off.

Also when we picked green earlier it was to keep options open it was not a splash we were married to. I would much rather go Brozhov than Esper or Junk.

+1 Firemane Avenger

Just another vote for it. Bomb rare, I'd look for a splash of red in any deck on its power alone, and it seems as if there's already a consensus that we'd be fine getting out of Junk and into B/R/W. Fully support that decision based on the ridiculous amount of Boros and severe lack of good black cards.

I suspect that someone to our right was looking for Boros.

...that's unfortunate for them lol.

Is there a reason you are doing the draft in reverse? DGM is first, then GTC, then RTR....

+1 Firemane Avenger

It's only pick 3 with cpu generated packs. It's early to read anything into the lack of black. Maybe there just wasn't any in there. Also, I do think we may see more good red this round. The colors in which we passed down the best quality cards were GU. We'll probably see RWB come our way. Though Forced Adaptation is interesting too as another enchantment.

+1 Firemane Avenger

Many people have reasoned well, and thus I have cast my vote accordingly.

+1 Firemane Avenger

We're not set very well to make a battalion deck, but if the cards fall that way so be it.

I'm willing to bet the black cards taken from the first two packs were removal spells like Executioner's Swing , Devour Flesh , or Grisly Spectacle . Too bad because those are spells I was hoping we might get.

+1 Firemane Avenger

+1 Clan Defiance

Helps us keep the board under control as well as making way for our flyers to get through

+1 firemane.

I maybe completly stupid guys, but what about going naya, and dropping black? Might have merit if this no black trend continues.

Well the green we have is very little at the moment, right now the only colors we want are white and black. With this pick, we might go BWR, but nothing's solidified yet.

+1 Ruination Wurm its a 7/6, if we end up with these colors it would be an awesome pick, if we don't it would be the one id most hate to see used against me.

+1 Firemane Avenger

Best card in the pack + we can actually play it = win

@dbrannon

Lolz, the troll is strong with this one.

+1 Firemane Avenger

+1 Firemane Avenger

Would have liked this pack in sealed given the strong red presence

+1 Firemane Avenger

Just want to say thanks to KrazyCaley] for doing these. Just went to my first draft this past friday night and went 3-0. I know these articles helped alot. Thx KrazyCaley

+1 Firemane Avenger .

Good lord our skies are looking scary. I'm just thinking of those godlike vigilance/battalion turns (curtesy of Angelic Skirmisher ) followed by the trolololol of first-striking Guardian of the Gateless on defence (good luck attacking into that). R/W/B looks to be making a fun blend of early stall/removal into brutal air raids turns 5-8ish.

+1 Firemane Avenger

If good red stuff keeps comming, we can easily change to WR or something, and splash black for those Stab Wound .

+1 Firemane Avenger It's worth splashing for and obviously Boros is open this round so far.

I agree with zaddos, I think this draft debate helped a great deal. I went to my first draft a few weeks ago and went 3-0. Totally kudos to everyone here for helping.

• 1 Firemane Avenger

• 1 Firemane Avenger

its easy to splash and its a huge bomb in our colors which works wit what we have

+1 Clan Defiance

Hmm, this is a tough one. I almost leapt for the Firemane Avenger , but I am not so sure.Also just to clarify, the way drafts SHOULD be played, if you want success, which I am sure we do, is like this. Going from want you want, to what you don't.

1. Bombs (ALWAYS take the bomb. That rule almost always applies. That's why I think we should've taken the Skarrg Goliath )

2. Removal (2nd best in Limited. I.e stuff like Ultimate Price )

3. Evasion (Stuff with Flying and what-not.)

4. Everything Else (Everything that oes not fall under the 1st 3 categories. There ARE some exceptions however.)

While Firemane Avenger , is good, it isn't quite a bomb. Yes, it can be a Lightning Helix on a stick, this more falls between the 2nd and 3rd category, and the fact that it only has 3 power, doesn't quite make a bomb.

Yes, Clan Defiance is in the 4th category. You could argue that it is removal, but that's what makes it better. It's the versatility of this card that makes it so amazing. Fireball s (X burn spells) have always been good in limited.

@IAmKingTony - Check the first pick article. TL;DR - I think this format is harder and perhaps more enlightening/thoughtful. Better practice for the actual other-way-around draft. Swinging the heavy bat, as it were.

@AlexOAwesome

I agree with the kinds of things you said, and it is almost always better to pick things in the order you specified, but remember that you can't blindly follow that. Sometimes you can't pick a nine mana card because that's more than half the lands in your deck and often you'd need to reach turn 20 to even cast it. And, picking Clan Defiance which is in two colors, neither of which we are certain to play, is asking for trouble, and effectively securing us into 4 colors if we pick it. if you've never seen Firemane Avenger in action, it is certainly a bomb. There are few cards that will kill it, and we have the deck that can get it online. We aren't even going to play defiance if we pick it, because we won''t be in four colors. Remember that you can follow rules but you need to know when they're telling you to do something stupid.

Gotcha. Also, Firemane Avenger.

@cartwheelnurd: Minor point, but the Goliath is 8 mana, not 9. But mainly, the bloodrush effect was 7, and that could have been a game winner as well. With a stall deck and Prophetic Prism s yet to come, getting to 7 mana is very reasonable.

Never mind the Prism, I went too fast there. But still, I think 7 is reasonable, as it would have been an immediate effect.

@AlexOAwesome: The BREAD (Bomb, Removal, Evasion, Attackers, Dregs) model is of course a good place to start when drafting. But it can only get you so far for a few reasons.

The first of which you touched on yourself: Some things fall into more than one category. Firemane Avenger clearly has evasion, but if you can get the battalion online it can also function as removal. And those two things together make it a bomb arguably, as there is really no set standard for what makes something a bomb. Also, just sayin: I think Clan Defiance clearly fits into the removal category.

The second reason is that not all bombs are better than all removal, not all removal is better than all evasive creatures, etc. Removal can be conditional or limited in what it can kill, especially damage based removal. Some bombs might be too hard to cast in limited. So on and so forth.

The final reason the BREAD model should not be followed blindly is that at a certain point in a draft you have to take into consideration the deck you are trying to build. As cartwheelnurd noted, neither red nor green are really in our solid colors right now. However, we are solidly into white, so Firemane Avenger will be much easier to cast than Clan Defiance as we would only have to splash for red in the worst case.

@cartwheelnurd Fair point. And vic already said what I was going to say regarding the goliath. Also, we Are ONLY on pack Two. We can still switch colors. Or even change teh deck. And yes, while Firemane Avenger may be good, that STILL means we have to add Red and we have picked up some green sources. I'm just saying that the versatility of Defiance is very good in limited.

Of course you shouldn't follow it all the time! As I said, there are exceptions... But the fact that we are at the beginning of Pack 2, means we could still switch colors, and take out blue or whatever. I would not consider Clan Defiance to be removal, because it can also target players. I believe there is a difference.

95% sure we aren't going blue. As it stands, we have 8 white, 2 gold (one of which has our sole blue mana symbol--yes KrazyCaley, now you can cry), 3 black, 1 red, 1 green, 2 colorless.

I would be much happier splashing a single green for clan defiance than I was splashing double green with, so far, a single guildgate. The Goliath would have been great if we were maining green but it was clear that wasn't our destiny.

The Goliath is also situational. You need a creature in play to rush onto, the board state needs to be such that you can get a profitable combat step from it and you have to try and bait out removal. While this is true of many "bombs" these are all a lot harder to accomplish when splashing for a big card like this. Also, after we use it once they will be watching out for it, and bloodrush does lose an element of surprise then.

While I wouldn't be averse to the defiance over most of this pack, I have wanted use to go Brozhov since the start of the draft, especially after seeing what we were getting passed and passing. The angel is a solid card, we can play her early and we're far from unable to threaten battalion. Plus if I'm reading the pack right, she's shiny!

Our final deck should be BRW, with splashes for any specific cards we pick up that are too good to go without. For example if defiance tabled, we'd splash green for it. If we pick up Aetherling, we splash hard for that. If all the Boros/Orzhov dries up really really quickly in this pack we may have to change that plan but so far so good.

Finally, whilst this IS a multicolour format, we should be mindful of greed. If we simply take the strongest card in each pack we will end up with either a lot of strong cards that are hard to play, or a deck with low average quality because we had to cut colours. In this kind of draft you do FAR better to try and stick to a colour plan. Yes you have to be adaptive, but knowing when you have to be is different from being greedy. We really only want two main colours and a splash, but three is acceptable too, with the right fixing for the base.

I'm out of commission for most of today, folks. Might be a little bit before I get the next pick done.

+1 Firemane Avenger

Easy choice. Red works with our Lobber Crew choice as well.

XD Lobster Crew!

The only color we're "set" on is white. The rest of our cards are pretty mehp, and don't force us to stick with that color. We could easily splash black at the moment for our removal, but that hardly makes it a cohesive plan yet. We need to keep playing this card by card.

Our best white cards are the guardian and the skirmisher, those are the cards with a similar value to them as stab wound. The rest, while good enough to play, aren't much better than the jailbreaker. So in terms of cards we REALLY want to be playing, white and black are even. Once we grab the avenger here, we'll have our reason for red.

It's never a guarantee that you'll end up with the colours you seek but you have to try for them, is my point. And Brozhov is very strong in this format.

Yeah but that's still only 5 for-sure mainboard cards. If we try to force a deck based on that, we're not going to do well.

If we get some more good cards in those colors, though, we'll be golden.

+1 Firemane Avenger , not much worth taking. but the Avenger is pretty awesome, even if we don't mainboard it, I'd rather not have someone else use it against us.

how long until the next one, caley?

Updating now.