Rogue's Passage ? Azorius Arrester ?

1. Rogue's Passage
2. Azorius Arrester

we are bound to pick up some gates, i say take the Ogre Jailbreaker

In such a slow format. Rogue's Passage

Reason for Rogue's Passage is if we are going control/disable with stab wounds and detains, we would to get in hits when we don't have blockers detained. Everything else in the pack doesn't really excite me.

Golgari Keyrune , maybe? 2/2 deathtouch is always nice...

This one is not easy for me. Although I kind of like taking Azorius Arrester based on our previous pick and the potential to stall our opponents while we extort them, I wouldn't underestimate Ogre Jailbreaker ... We should be able to pick up plenty of gates and a 4/4 body for 4 CMC is quite good. I need to think about this a bit longer...

Rogue's Passage

Azorius Arrester

Rogue's Passage

Ogre Jailbreaker

Ogre Jailbreaker IS a very splash-able creature also. It can easily trade up even as a defender, and the CMC is low enough to be playable.

Ogre Jailbreaker for certain. There are plenty of guildgates, meaning he's going to be a 4/4 for 4. That's excellent.

Ogre Jailbreaker

Ogre Jailbreaker and Rogue's Passage have to be the one of the 2 cards. Ogre Jailbreaker is better, and we'll end up with a gate probably. However Rogue's Passage goes along better with picks that have already been made.

Ogre Jailbreaker because its too early to tell what kind of deck we'll be running, and if we do end up with a control-y deck, Ogre Jailbreaker Still isnt that bad.

Ogre Jailbreaker . Everything else is just blah. Nothing worth hate drafting.

I almost want to take the Arrester just to spite Elaine. But Ogre Jailbreaker is probably the best pick here. We can prioritize getting several gates later when it's easy, and he's a terrific card for the color we're already in. 4/4 is a great defender anyhow even if it's not turned on, and a 4/4 attacker for 4 is just crazy in black.

Ogre Jailbreaker is pretty good, especially with all the gates.

Rogue's Passage gets an honourable mention as the unexciting packs continue.

Golgari Keyrune going out on a limb here and saying mana fixing is the best choice. and being bale to hold it + 2 mana back to kill an attacker on the ground. the passage and orge do not impress me much. I would like to smooth out potential splashes

My vote would have to go to the Golgari Keyrune or the Ogre Jailbreaker .

Golgari Keyrune is a nice pick simply because it can be removal. We'll have plenty of color fixing from DGM and any Prophetic Prisms we run into. Like Elaine said above, there's no need to worry about color fixing just yet. A 4/4 for 4cmc is definitely impressive.

Azorius Arrester (YAY more detain)

1. Golgari Keyrune
2. Downsize
3. Rogue's Passage

I think I'd pick Ogre Jailbreaker here, as much as I'd like to grab the Rogue's Passage . The ogre is a reliably good creature, where the land would be very useful -if- we grab any Cipher spells.

I like Rogue's Passage , but I think it's conditional. We need to have something good to swing with. That means either a bomb creature - not easily found - or a combination of cards - like the ciphers.

Ogre Jailbreaker

I'm fine if we end up with the Ogre Jailbreaker . We'll have enough gates to rely on him, and he's a solid body.

I'm also a fan of the Armory Guard , so I'll try to make a case for him. He still only costs 4, he isn't mana-restrictive, and he has a huge butt. 2/5 vigilance for 4 is a BEAST in limited. He might not always trade up, but it takes a lot of work to take him down. I really like not losing defenders when I block.

Ogre's 4 power is stronger, but Vigilance as a mechanic is always, always good.

Vote: Armory Guard

The thing about Rogue's Passage is that in a set like this, It would have to take up a spell slot in the deck. In a multicolored set where were probably going to end up playing at least 3 colors, we can't afford to have one of our lands produce colorless mana.

Decks in this draft format are going to be slower by default, so I don't think Azorius Arrester is as good as it was in RtR

That being said, I vote for Ogre Jailbreaker . A 4/4 for 4 is pretty good. It also helps further the signals that black is running dry.

Oh, and Ogre Jailbreaker trades up with Spawn of Rix Maadi . . .

After consideration, I'm picking Ogre Jailbreaker .

Ogre Jailbreaker seems really strong. As a defender it still kills alot of things and with a gate, and there will be a several gates in DM, he seems to be really good. However I've never drafted RTR but Ogre Jailbreaker would be my pick.

The Rogue's Passage does have very nice synergy with our Stab Wound s though

Rogue's Passage .

Rogue's Passage is unreliable at best. We want our whole deck to work together as a whole, and Rogue's Passage has a tendency to show up early and whine at you because you don't have any colored mana.

I feel like Ogre Jailbreaker is the smart pick here. I really want to jump all over cards like Rogue's Passage or Armory Guard , or go ahead and declare us Esper control, but I think we want 4/4 beats for 4.

Then again, if we're swinging at diminished big creatures with Stab Wound s with our 4/4, it would be too easy to keep their health up by chumping with their wounded. Maybe Rogue's Passage is the go. If control is our game, it is the pick for sure. But then we would want the Guard! Argh, this is circular. And frustrating.

I'll be happy if it's one of the three mentioned in my first paragraph, but I'll cast my vote on Rogue's Passage .

Azorius Arrester . Add to the "lock down" theme we have so far.

1. Rogue's Passage we'll have cipher cards coming, but not necessarily unblockables, this land is so under-rated, and under-valued.

2.Ogre Jailbreaker this guy is just awesome. Guild gates galore are coming in Dragon's Maze so we can afford to pick up a few guildgate related creatures.

1. Downsize need I say more?

either of these picks would be great but Rogue's Passage gets my vote for sure.

odd, i thought I wrote a '3' in front Downsize

Vote 1: Ogre Jailbreaker even if we don't get a gate he's still a 4/4 for 4cmc blocker.

Vote 2: Armory Guard a 2/5 blocker with potential for vigilance not bad

Vote 3: Azorius Arrester detain for 2 Mana with a 2/1. The only reason I vote for it is because we already have a detain card.

I completely agree with Cdawg44. We need Azorius Arrester to create a lock down. Even late game it prevents an opponent from utilizing a creature and creates a chump if we need it. Worst case, they lose 2 life from Stab Wound . I mean 2 mana for 2 damage isn't that bad right?

Jailbreaker

Ogre Jailbreaker . We're going to have gates, that's a given. So a 4/4 for 4 is great on the curve.

The keyrune is also tempting but we don't really need unfocused mana ramp when we can pick up the more relevant types later, and the ability to activate the rune isn't that relevant unless we have some idea that we're going into golgari colours.

Rogue's Passage is a second choice though.

I was sitting here kinda hoping that Armory Guard would table. Given the late support for it, I gather it's not the under-appreciated sleeper I thought it was. I'm of the opinion that fat bottom creatures are great platforms for auras and equipment. Though, I tend to prefer them as flyers, like griffins or angels.

I like psychoza's reasoning, and don't think Rogue's Passage will table.

I would go with Ogre Jailbreaker .

Umm, personally, I would go with Skull Rend . That card is actually a boss in limited. It makes them lose two life, and takes away two of their threats at random. Seriously, try it. It's beautiful

Ogre Jailbreaker

AlexOAwesome - At 3BR, the opponent is reasonably likely to not have a hand - remember there's a pretty significant portion of decks that are going aggro and dumping their hands on the field. And even if they do have 2+ cards in hand, it has an equal chance of getting rid of useless cards - extra lands, outclassed creatures - as it does bombs.

It's one of those spells that feels awesome, and looks awesome, and when it does hit for value, it's super memorable, while the times when it sits useless in your hand don't stick out, much like Fog . Next time you're playing it in Limited, pay close attention to how many times it just sat dead in your hand or didn't do anything worthwhile. (And dinging them for 2 isn't worthwhile on a 5 mana gold card.)

We probably don't want to be spending our turn 5 casting one spell that could whiff, anyhow; there's an abundance of solid 5-drop creatures in this format and I'd rather be casting almost any of them instead.

It's all about the Ogre Jailbreaker . @AlexOAwesome- Seriously? Even if it is the nuts, it will almost always table.

Ogre Jailbreaker is my vote!

There are a decent amount of Turn 5-7 plays in this Limited Set in particular. Yes, while some dcks will try for aggro, I eel like the majority will end up with a Midrange or Control deck. Discarding at random isn't bad. By Turn 5, they will almost always have at least 2-4 cards in hand. I urge you to try it. And even if you do, and don't end up liking it, remember that this is only Pick 4. Out of like 45 or so cards.

-I say give Azorius Arrester a shot. It fits nicely with our build so far. It will be great stall for extort cards.

-The ogre is a close 2nd.

-The land is 3rd with the heavy activation cost. Also we may go 3-color and not want a colorless land in there.

-Vigilance dude has a good chance of wheeling.

As much as I'd like to pick the armory guard, the lack of support pulls my vote to the jail breaker. I think vigilance is being overlooked here. But that's all ill say about it. Haha

Ogre Jailbreaker , then either Tenement Crasher or Golgari Keyrune

If I were to evaluate Ogre Jailbreaker against Armory Guard , for me the Jailbreaker wins for its tradeability. I agree that Armory Guard has a larger butt and the difference between 4 and 5 is quite huge in this format. Vigilance is also always relevant with this size of trunk. However, when we meet with Bigger Pig (Zhur-Taa Swine ), Spawn of Rix Maadi , Golgari Longlegs , Maze Behemoth , or even Sepulchral Primordial , the Jailbreaker is able to trade with them, while Armory Guard is not.

About Skull Rend . 5 Mana prohibits us from doing anything else at the same time. It's heavily overcosted for the effect, and will likely table if we want it as an option later.

Why take a 5 mana unwieldy spell when we have a lower cost equivalent in the block: Mind Rot . Odds are we'll see some mind rots come around and those are far better for the control side of things. Even if it were in this pack though, it's not a high enough effect to grab it at pick 4.

I was going to change my vote for something that had more support, but this pack is not really that impressive at all, yet Azorius Arrester , Armory Guard , Skull Rend , and Ogre Jailbreaker all work with this deck idea I would like us to move towards, yet I can see all of them not making it into the final deck.

With that said, I still think the best pick for the PACK is the Golgari Keyrune . But any of these other cards we are talking about work with the deck idea I would like. So; meh whatever I guess.

1. Rogue's Passage
2. Azorius Arrester

Total Clear Votes: 37
Total Unclear Votes: 4

Users whose votes I did not discern a clear answer from:
Goody
TheSeventhNinja
potatoedoughnut
GureiSeion

Card Votes:
Ogre Jailbreaker - 21 - 56.7%
Rogue's Passage - 6 - 16.2%
Azorius Arrester - 5 - 13.5%
Golgari Keyrune - 3 - 8.1%
Skull Rend - 1 - 2.7%
Armory Guard - 1 - 2.7%

This does not include VRonin's vote for Rogue's Passage .

I still don't see Rogue's Passage making a come back though :(.

I'll change my vote to Ogre Jailbreaker . The Armory Guard isn't winning today, and he'd be my second choice.

Yeah I haven't voted on purpose, I wanted to watch the discussion first.Ogre Jailbreaker has a pretty commanding lead, and he's as fine a card as the other for this early in the process. It gets my vote, let's snag it

Ogre Jailbreaker

It'll do work.

Golgari Keyrune is 2nd. Good chance something playable tables!

Ogre Jailbreaker

Also: I told you so about the Spwan. Elaine and I draft very similarly, it would be interesting to see what would happen if we sat next to each other for a draft.

Rogue's Passage

That pick just came down to preference. Even with her explanation, I don't believe we made a wrong choice. Just a different one.

@jkarnes: No offense to Elaine, but just because she would have gone that way doesn't necessarily make it the best move. There were many people, myself included who saw the legitimacy of that choice but thought Azorus Justiciar fit better.

Ogre Jailbreaker . Can trade up, and is in our colour(s).

Ogre Jailbreaker

KrazyCaley, we're ready!

Oops, since it wasn't clear: Ogre Jailbreaker

Probably waiting on other drafters, or the business of Caley himself. We'll get there when it is time.

Passage or arrester would be my pick.

@Arachnarchist: No matter how you swing it, the Justicar is durdly. The only creatures worth 4CMC @ 2/2 are Talrand, Sky Summoner , Huntmaster of the Fells  ^Flip , Bronzebeak Moa , Crypt Ghast , and Tajic, Blade of the Legion .

None of those are named Azorious Justicar.

@jkarnes: I think your list is a bit short, friend. There are plenty of 2/2 for 4cmc cards that are worth playing, and Talrand, Sky Summoner wouldn't exactly fit the list if we were limiting the list to competitive. ;)

Remember, this is Limited. Cards have different power levels than in Standard.

Same here. No offense Elaine, but I think your comments should stay out for now because they can still influence our future choices.

Sorry, I'm causing the delay. Moving on. I'm going to keep Elaine's comments, though. She sees only the pack seen and the choice made; she doesn't see the subsequent pack. If she influences via that, so be it. Just want to try the commentary experiment for a while.

Isn't having people post their opinions the point of this series?

Welcome to the Hive Mind Elaine. Just don't you dare belittle us for playing every fish crab we can draft!