The State of G/U in Standard
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Spootyone
7 April 2014
2101 views
7 April 2014
2101 views
Hello all and welcome to another article about the state of standard. For those of you who do not know, I am an avid follower of all things Bant, be it 3-color, one of the three 2-color combos therein, or of just green, white or blue. Most decks I create fall into one of those categories and I usually try to keep up to date on what the power decks between those are at any given point. My current deck Primordial Soup | Bant Mega-Ramp is a simic ramp deck with a white splash for Detention Sphere and Elspeth, Sun's Champion and I've had mild success with it.
However, I've noticed that it is become more and more weak to the standard metagame. Back when it was created, GR monsters was huge and Jund monsters was just on the rise. There were no RW burn decks, no Mono-black aggro, and control was primarily UW with very few people opting to play Esper. It was a different metagame. My plan at that time was to make a deck that could go over the top of the monsters decks. Creatures like Arbor Colossus and my personal favorite Sylvan Primordial were absolutely perfect choices against these decks with their huge bodies and reach abilities. Putting them in a ramp shell with Cyclonic Rift (one of my favorite cards of all time) meant that I had a way to handle more aggressive decks as I could wipe their board and follow it up with a huge threat.
Nowadays, this just isn't cutting it. More people are playing Ultimate Price and Thoughtseize and Rakdos's Return. More people are playing decks that don't care about your creatures and just get through for lethal anyway with cards like Warleader's Helix, Boros Charm
and Mogis's Marauder. And furthermore, Control is now primarily Esper, meaning the matchup against them is completely abysmal. And so, I decided to take a day to tweak my deck. Heavily.
Alright let's cut to the chase. Do I think that G/U has a chance in this standard metagame? I've done some good testing over the past couple weeks and I can say full-heartedly yes! But before I end up leaving you with a black and white answer and go into no detail, allow me to expand on what makes these colors a good choice moving forward.
I think it's fair to say that Black is the most powerful color in the game right now. Between Thoughtseize, Hero's Downfall, Whip of Erebos, the plethora of black 1-drops and other aggro cards, Obzedat, Ghost Council, Blood Baron of Vizkopa, Desecration Demon and more, almost any deck has a good reason to splash for black. For that reason, I want to run a deck that can beat thsoe sorts of decks. I want answers to the demon. I want decks that can top-deck fairly well since hand disruption is so big right now. And I want threats that can just die to Doom Blade. Where do I find all these things? Green. One of the biggest threats against a mono-black deck in green is Witchstalker, simply because it has hexproof and can be cast early off of a T1 Elvish Mystic, making Devour Flesh pretty horrible at that point. Sure, they can waste removal on your Elf and then devour flesh the stalker, but what if you follow up the elf with a Sylvan Caryatid? Then things get super tricky for them. Because even if I end up not being able to land a stalker I get to follow him up with a flurry of threats that need dealing with at some point. They don't have answers for every single thing.
A card that I think pairs well with Witchstalker is Boon Satyr. The Satyr can be an early threat with pseudo-flash (by playing it on your opponent's end step). It's flash ability is also relevant in other situations, like if your opponent top-decks that Devour Flesh they needed to take care of your stalker. The big deal about boon satyr is only a turn or two down the road, though. Being able to bestow a saytr at instant speed onto a stalker is an amazing feeling and is surprisingly difficult to beat. Courser of Kruphix is yet another green staple that does amazing things right now. It helps generate card advantage and avoid flooding out. It provides a way to hold off aggro and to recoup life loss against burn, and it is another valid target of bestow for the saytr. Having a 6/6 on T4 is something I'm very fond of. You may notice all these cards have fairly high green devotion. This is not a coincidence. Nylea's Disciple can become absolutely insane in this sort of deck. Not only does it mean aggro and burn decks are going to have to deal another 4-10 damage to you, but it means ANY deck has to deal that much more damage to you. Even against more midrange strategies this can be the factor that wins you a race.
So far, I've spoken on green's merits, but blue also has something to provide for this deck. All of the green creatures I've mentioned in the above paragraph tend to function by out-tempoing the opponent. Sure, we're not doing it by blitzing them or dropping a 7-drop on T4, but those strategies aren't working for me in these colors for this metagame. This slightly-big-aggro playstyle goes really well with advantageous blue tempo cards such as Cyclonic Rift, which gets my vote for one of the top 5 blue cards in standard right now. The overload is what we are aiming for, as we generally force the opponent to play to our speed by loading the board with defenses or walkers, etc. Rifting their board at instant speed can often-times allow for a victory swing (especially with a bestowed Boon Satyr).
Blue also gives us access to Kiora, the Crashing Wave, which can ramp, can stall the board, or can be a win-condition. Not to mention the fact that she synergizes so well with Courser of Kruphix. Prime Speaker Zegana is a great way for a simic deck to keep on the pressure while also filling up the hand. Blue also has access to any number of counterspells, grants access to Simic Charm (another great tempo card that has it's places in this sort of deck), Jace (of both varieties) and more. Combining small and efficient threats with tempo-based control cards seems to be a great way to take care of many decks that are popular right now.
The downside, which is usually the case for a non-blitz aggro deck, is the matchup against control. Control can really suck. But that's what the sideboard is for! As previously mentioned, Jace, Memory Adept is in our colors, and boy does it do a number on control decks. Being able to resolve it, have it be Detention Sphere'd, rift the sphere and then use it again is amazing. Without a doubt, being able to have an alternate win condition against control decks is great. If they waste all their spot removal on your creatures, you can then mill them out before they kill you with Elspeth, Sun's Champion or AEtherling. But to make sure they must use up their spot removal, we also have the ability to run Mistcutter Hydra, whose abilities make it perfect against any blue control deck. Haste to get in after a wrath, protection from some removal and AEtherling, and a mana sink to make him as big as we can muster. If you're not yet familiar as to why this card is good right now then you've not been paying enough attention.
The biggest thing I found with the deck at this point was its lack of "reach". I don't mean the mechanic, I mean the ability to break through and deal the last bits of damage when needed. Cyclonic Rift is a good thing for this, but we needed more. None of our creatures had trample, so they were just getting chump-blocked. Nylea, God of the Hunt seemed an obvious choice given how much devotion was going around. I'll tell you right now that it isn't a bad one, but I decided to instead go with Selesnya Charm. That's right, we're splashing white again. But I simply had to. Selesnya charm gives us a way to remove creatures bigger than ours, interact with Obzedat, Ghost Council, provide surprise trample damage, and create a small creature if a situation calls for it (such as in response to a Devour Flesh). I've found it to be incredibly useful.
Here's the list I have so far:
"Primordial Soup V2.0 (pre-JIN)"
Creatures
-
4x Boon Satyr
-
4x Witchstalker
Other spells
Lands
Sideboard
One card I'm not finding to be incredibly helpful so far is Sylvan Caryatid. The card is great, but usually feels not necessary in the deck. It might be replaced by Shambleshark, which can be played at EoT, get's bigger easily and is another early threat.
Give it a try! I think Simic is going to be a good way to move assuming Kruphix ends up being a viable addition to the deck. I'm looking at a deck with things like Shambleshark and Kiora's Follower and maybe even more goodies. But all this will obviously depend on the cards released. Here's hoping!
p.s. This deck apparently dies to Colossus of Akros...isn't that right, Thanatos?
How come your decks are always good for only 1 Showdown??
Anyway, glad you're back and writing more. Any luck on the job offer?
April 7, 2014 7:35 p.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #3
Rather than Shambleshark or Sylvan Caryatid , have you considered Scavenging Ooze ? It's an early threat, a powerhouse against control after a verdict (you can exile all your dudes that died for some life and a beater). I (sadly) think your assessment is correct that Simic/Bant midrange/ramp decks have a hard time against the meta.
I think another route to go with this could be a more planeswalkery approach. Although MBD has Hero's Downfall they often have trouble with walkers. And control has nearly no way to combat them other than Detention Sphere . With some ramp, Courser of Kruphix , removal and a crapload of walkers it seems like control and MBD would barely be able to handle it, and you would have enough roadblocks that aggro wouldn't stand a chance. Here's a quick list I compiled:
Planeswalking Against the Meta | Bant Superfriends Playtest
Standard
SCORE: 0 | 0 COMMENTS | 4 VIEWSApril 7, 2014 10:05 p.m.
corythackston: Kiora's Follower is something I've toyed with in the past. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I usually have it removed and then I usually hate life as soon as he's gone. Honestly, the ramp is the part that I don't think I need in that slot. I'd like to have a solid 2-drop that curves out nicely and synergizes well with what I'm doing (not that you suggestion isn't that)
Matsi883: Right? I think it's a combination of me not being able to write them as often as I like and me creating decks that I want to be able to beat an ever-changing metagame. Unfortunately I can't really make a deck that has an answer to every standard powerhouse AND ever deck sent in to me, so i'm just going with the former, and that pretty much means changing almost constantly.
InconspicuousPotato: I did a small bit of testing with Shambleshark and actually found him quite alright. He curves out nicely and evolves from many of the other creatures in the deck. But I also really like the suggestion of Scavenging Ooze . Perhaps a 2/2 split or maybe 3/1 in favor of the fish crab? I'll do some testing. I also may try to put a 1-of Nylea, God of the Hunt in after all. The trample she gives to everything is so important for getting a victory with this kind of deck, and Selesnya Charm just isn't showing up quite enough.
All in all, I'm happy with this deck idea, but I think some spots definitely need tweaking. For example, Shambleshark
tends to become a 3/2 often and a 4/3 sometimes. Does this make him a better choice over the "safer" Kalonian Tusker
? It's hard to say. Because if I end up running the tusker I kind of feel like I should just be running mono green aggro and splash blue with no white. And for all I know that's an even more correct choice.
I'm going to be making a showdown starting tonight and into tomorrow to hopefully be up tomorrow, but I'm going to continue tweaking this list until I find something I'm comfortable with. I'd like to make a build utilizing Kruphix if I can (fingers crossed).
April 7, 2014 10:51 p.m.
Oh, and Matsi883, nothing so far. But no responses at all either. I"m going to try recontacting soon (within the next couple days) and possibly try for a couple other places as well.
I'd really like to write for TCGplayer.com :/ That would be a dream opportunity. They expressed initial interest but I've still not heard back from them yet. So much anticipation anxiety lol.
April 7, 2014 10:53 p.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #6
I would say a somewhat easy to cast 3/2 flash that can be a 4/3 is better than a hard to cast "safe" 3/3. I think a 2/2 split would be best between Ooze and Fish Crab (he has the best creature types).
April 7, 2014 10:57 p.m.
Man, I'm really sad to see Sylvan Primordial leave the deck. But given your explanations of the ever-changing meta, the choice seems reasonable. I always love reading your articles, keep it up!
April 7, 2014 11:02 p.m.
I humbly offer my decks for playtesting:
I SEE DEAD PEOPLE Playtest
Standard
SCORE: 4 | 42 COMMENTS | 402 VIEWSand
Dead Men Tell No Tales Playtest
Standard
SCORE: 9 | 14 COMMENTS | 595 VIEWSThe Jund one is a little awkward still, and might get a rework, but the Orzhov one feels pretty solid.
April 7, 2014 11:51 p.m.
The set abbreviation for Journey into Nyx is JOU, not JIN.
April 8, 2014 12:44 a.m.
Oh whoops! Well, hopefully it won't matter to readers too much
April 8, 2014 2:41 a.m.
I liked the idea of the set abrev. being JIN, JOU is ok, but JIN sounds cool well spoken/makes more sense as the first three letters are J I N. JOU is the first three letters of the first word, kinda confusing to be honest.
April 8, 2014 2:51 a.m.
Energycore says... #12
I'm not a seasoned player by any means. I started playing magic back when theros came out (a friend gifted me and my brother a duel deck pack) and i've loved anything that has blue or white in it (as long as it's not orzhov, but that's another story) ever since. I only recently got my eyes into the competitive scene and i've always wanted to make a powerful G/U deck to take into FNMs.
I made a themed heroic deck that was G/U (Heroes of The Guilds: Simic), i haven't put it together IRL but i really like its premise and i think it could perform in FNM.
When i made this deck and play tested it i realized how fun it is to play G/U. You get dudes that become bigger, have some tricks up your sleeve, you get to draw cards and you have, in my opinion, the most fun win-cons (therling is one of my favorite cards just because it gets to stay in the board pretty much no matter what).
So i'm glad you wrote this deck up. I'd love to put it together IRL and probably will once i have the money (hell, i took up a job just to be able to buy magic cards).
I'd like to hear your thoughts (and anyone on this comment section's too) about the following cards to replace your caryatid:
Exhibit 1) Hero of Leina Tower . My favorite hero. If you're ramped up at some point, you can boon satyr bestow and then pay the rest to place a huge number of +1/+1 counters. It's also a 1-drop, but you might not want to play it turn one.
Exhibit 2) Fleecemane Lion . Since you've splashed white you can play this guy and then make him hexproof/indestructible: he'd become a powerful force that won't die to anything that isn't a Cyclonic Rift .
Exhibit 3) Skylasher . I've seen this card in a couple Green-something aggro decks that were taken to tournaments. Looking at your deck, it seems like you wouldn't benefit so much from it since you're already running Mistcutter Hydra against W/U or esper control, but maybe you can make it work as a maindecker.
Exhibit 4) Voice of Resurgence ? You could run this since it's a powerful card, but at this point my suggestions lean toward the selesnya aggro side.
As always, thanks for writing such a comprehensive article, it definitely helps me get used to the meta in competitive magic.
April 8, 2014 2:54 p.m.
Here's my reformed list so far:
Creatures
4x Boon Satyr
4x Witchstalker
4x Shambleshark
4x Witchstalker
Spells
Lands
Sideboard (Still being worked on)
Shambleshark seems to fit oh-so snugly into the list and can become incredibly large between Courser of Kruphix , Boon Satyr , and Polukranos, World Eater . The flash is just the icing on the cake, really. And if Kruphix is revealed and fits well in here, Shambleshark will be one of the best 2-drops for him. I can't wait!
Nylea, God of the Hunt has been incorporated as a better means of getting that last bit of damage in on a stalled board state. Selesnya Charm wasn't enough, was clunky, and made the mana horrendous. Things are running much smoother now and Nylea even becomes a creature fairly easily in certain matchups.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx can actually feasibly get us some additional mana in this sort of deck and even a single mana more than I may have had can mean bestowing a Boon Satyr or monstrousing a Polukranos, World Eater for good amounts of damage. We can afford a couple colorless lands now that white is gone. Things sometimes get a little awkward if we draw two or if we get one early on and have not many other lands, but that's just the nature of colorless lands, right?
April 8, 2014 6:31 p.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #15
I honestly think a few Mutavault s would be better than Nykthos.
April 8, 2014 6:39 p.m.
Oops. That first Witchstalker is supposed to be Courser of Kruphix ..Not sure how I mixed those up lol.
I can agree that Mutavault is a solid choice over the Nykthos. I honestly think it depends on the playstyle and matchup. Hell, maybe even replacing the Bramblecrush in the side with Mutavault to bring in sometimes could be a thing. But all I know is that the mana Nykthos gives on occasion means the difference between a game win or not. Sometimes I need that extra one or two pips to get off a timely overloaded Cyclonic Rift , and I personally would rather do that than maybe get in for another 2.
April 8, 2014 6:45 p.m.
First off I wanna say that I am long time follower of your deck techs and am choosing now to speak up because I, like you, am rather irritated at the lack of love that simic is getting from WotC. I mean sure they gave us a cool walker and we're awaiting the arrival of Kruphix (fingers crossed that he rocks) but otherwise it's been a whole lot of counter related cards that just well......kinda stink (I'm generalizing to show my mind set).
I love that you are branching out with something that isn't just a cookie cutter bant control deck. Keep up the good work Spooty.
Given the aggro-y-ness that you are going for have you considered Fiendslayer Paladin ? Not necessarily mainboard but considering his protective abilities I can think of a handful of decks that would not like you to land that guy. I don't know if he's really viable here but thought it might be interesting to side in. in certain matchups of course.
April 8, 2014 8:50 p.m.
Wow hadn't refreshed the page. Disregard the last paragraph entirely. Lol. Sorry on my phone.
April 8, 2014 8:54 p.m.
DarkHero: Is there ever any other answer?
Bellock86: Thank you for commenting! Yeah, I removed the white for it being too clunky and losing me more games than winning. This deck runs really smoothly and falls a lot less victim to a "glass cannon" downfall like most of my decks have done in the past. I'm really trying to improve my builds and get better at this game. I actually do research on it daily lol.
April 8, 2014 10:17 p.m.
@Spootyone ~ I've been doing the same thing. I want a good simic inspired deck that isn't just cookie cutter. I'm gonna try for a Bant aggro deck (guess where I got the idea? Lol). But I'm gonna take a slightly different approach amd would love some feedback once I get it prototyped out as you have more experience with it.
I have been taking a break from standard after my last deck Evolved Aggro lost most of its power so I think I'm gonna need lots of help. Lol
April 9, 2014 8:53 p.m.
Bellock86: I personally decided to remove white and it made my build better, but in a different build you may find more success running bant. I look forward to seeing it!
April 9, 2014 9:06 p.m.
Spootyone the shell of the deck is up. Bant Things Happen. It's really rough right now as I'm doing this from my phone and I'm getting carpal tunnel as a result. Lol
April 9, 2014 10:42 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #27
Does the dragon get a chance yet? :D
The one control deck to rule them all Playtest
Standard
SCORE: 40 | 16 COMMENTS | 6447 VIEWSI'm also wondering why you're including white? Just for Selesnya Charm ? Why not just use Simic Charm instead? You can bounce something (including saving your own creature if need be...remonstrous Polukranos, World Eater ? haha) or give your PERMANENTS (hem hem Kiora, the Crashing Wave hexproof, or do an extra 3 damage.
This would help the mana base and help against Blood Baron of Vizkopa and Stormbreath Dragon as well
April 10, 2014 4:42 p.m.
harrydemon117: Way ahead of ya man! :D Check out the comments above and you'll find a link to my altered decklist. It is now full simic and slightly different from what is shown up in this article. And I'll totally put your decklist in the pool for the next showdown.
I've decided that I will test out Kruphix in place of Nylea, God of the Hunt in this deck. I'll be honest. I don't think it will improve things too much. Hell, it might make things sloppy. But I think getting out Kruphix against control is a decent idea since you could potentially do something like saving up mana for a Mistcutter Hydra with backup or fill your hand with a ton of threats that you can lay down after a verdict caused by said hydra. We'll see though. I might try to incorporate both gods. I really like Nylea in here.
April 10, 2014 5:54 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #29
Hmmm don't know why I didn't see the updated deck link post. New father syndrome I guess haha
I will comment on that and am DEFINITELY looking forward to you battling it out with "the dragon"
Long live Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker !!!
NerdPounder says... #1
You could just play Kiora's Follower in that spot that Sylvan Caryatid is taking if you don't like it, you get a good mix of aggro and ramp with him. Check out my bant deck, Bant Midrange =)
April 7, 2014 7:14 p.m.