A Letter to the Magic Community
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Spootyone
10 February 2014
3386 views
10 February 2014
3386 views
Hello all and welcome to a short article that I hope is well-received, even though it's a bit different from my normal stuff. And to those of you wondering, the "normal stuff" will be coming back shortly. As of today, I am back at home from my trip to compete in the prerelease event and I'm now able to continue work on my series. I will be writing an article on said event hopefully within the next couple days, so look out for that if you're into the limited environment. "Showdown" will be back in the near future. I'm in a strange flux with it right now as I try to find time to work on my new deck, which I'd prefer to use for those articles over my previous deck, which I feel is quite poor in the new meta. Hopefully you all can bear with me as I try to get a bit more structure back into that series. That's beside the point, however, as I wanted to talk about something else today.
What is it that makes Magic: The Gathering enjoyable to you? Perhaps it's the fun you can have deck building and making something from scratch that you feel exemplifies something of yourself. Maybe you like the competitive scene and enjoy battling for chances at prizes or gratification. It's possible you just enjoy the lore and enjoy making funny decks with your favorite art or what you think are the coolest creatures. I'm here to tell you that however it is you find enjoyment in the game, you should be proud of that and be the best you can be it. Magic is meant to be fun. It is a game, yes?
I can guarantee you know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the guy/gal who will sit there and complain no matter what happens. I'm talking about the person who will ridicule you for not knowing as much as they do. I'm talking about the individual who thinks it's necessary to belittle, bully, or otherwise bother someone else for no good reason other than that they think it's okay and they can get away with it. It's wrong. It's immature and it's this sort of self-serving attitude that caused me to quit playtesting this evening out of anger and exhaustion.
There is absolutely no reason why something as simple and harmless as reminding someone of a Blind Obedience trigger should result in a sarcastic and rude backlash. There is absolutely no reason something as simple and harmless as playing a spell in a card game should result in an immediate temper tantrum and furious exiting of the game. There's absolutely no reason I should feel bad about playing a card when I know it's the right one to play. And there's absolutely no reason why I should end my game feeling angry and upset because someone else thought these sorts of mannerisms were okay.
Have any of you ever lost an actual real-life friend to a card game? I have. Have any of you ever heard of someone being turned off of the entire franchise because of a bad experience or two? I've heard of many. Have you ever quit playing because every time you try to have fun you end up getting hurt instead? I've come close to it in the past and I know of people who have done so. Perhaps you're a lucky one and you haven't experienced any of these sad happenings, and if you are I suggest you count your blessings because these types of occurrences are happening all around us all the time. And quite frankly, I've grown tired of it. I'm writing this article because I hope the audience I have -- No matter how small it may be in comparison to the entire community -- will take it to heart and spread it to other people they play the game with. We, as a body, as a collective group, need to be kinder. We need to be more respectful and more considerate of other people's feelings. We shouldn't be turning people away from something we love because they made a wrong play or they played something we don't like. It's this sort of immaturity that results in the grand negative stereotype surrounding the gaming community. And I, for one, will not be a part of that.
I think it's absolutely absurd when I see someone berate someone on their deck. If it isn't yours then you have no right to judge it. What's that? You don't like playing against control? Well, I'm very sorry for you. I can completely understand the aggravation that can come with getting spells countered or losing because of removal. But that's no reason to throw a fit and quit the game. Do you not like it when aggro decks win on turn 4? I'm sorry. I truly am. It can be incredibly annoying when you lose before you play a single creature, but it happens and it's no reason to tell the person they "won on a fluke" or that "aggro decks don't require any thought, so whatever." And if you're one of these people, I urge you to discontinue this sort of behavior. It's poisonous to the community as a whole. And there are many ways to tailor your experience to what you wish for it to be.
And perhaps it's unprofessional of me to get on here and write what can only be described as a "rage" article, but it says something when an adult feels the need to be up at 5am to talk about a card game because he was too upset to sleep after playing it. Perhaps you imagine me on my soap box right now preaching to all about "the meanie who yelled at me in my game." I'm not here to preach. And I'm certainly not without fault. I was the one who lost that friend because I was the one who acted like a stuck-up know-it-all back when I was still learning how to play and thought I was hot stuff. I wasn't. And my words cost me. Don't make the same mistake. This isn't about growing a thick skin or having a back bone. This isn't about just "dealing with it." This is an actual serious problem.
So play how you wish. Be competitive, but know when and where to act like you're in the finals of a pro tour. Be creative, but know it doesn't make you better than someone who net-decks. Play your way, but don't get mad at others for doing the same. Keep your vitriol to yourself. Don't ruin this game for others. Don't belittle a new player for taking a rogue deck to FNM and losing every game. Praise them on their bravery to go to such an event with something they call their own. Don't get upset over something as silly as a missed trigger or a Counterspell. If you truly love this game like I do, you should want to spread the joy to others, not push them away from it.
I'm just a normal guy who for some reason found themselves lucky enough to be where I am today writing because people seem to enjoy it (for some reason unbeknown to me), and my opinions and actions may end up having an insignificant impact on the community as a whole. But that's not going to stop me from trying to be a better, kinder and more considerate player so that others can feel happy when they play and nothing else. So who's with me?
Jesus, play with older mature good sport people. In my local card shop there is a guy who after he loses over and over throws a fit and soon flings his cards. I just bust up laughing. This type of attitude just make me want to keep watching him lose. "I thrive on your tears" is what I tell him. He is one of those guys who mimics a pro deck, spending mad cash and doesn't understand why he's losing. All and all I love to see people rage over magic, just tickles the shit out of me. So this one is to you Mr super over angry competitive trantrom guy. There should be a YouTube channel dedicated to you sir.
February 10, 2014 7:31 a.m.
KnightsBattlecry001 says... #3
Great article man. To answer the first question in your article, I love the game for many reasons. I love the lore. I'm a huge fantasy nut and that was one of the things that drew me in. I also love the feel of if you can think of it you can build it. You can build pretty much anything you want ranging from a tribal deck, aggro to beat face as fast a possible, mill, you name it.
Your next question on that one guy/girl ridiculing someone no matter what they do, yes there was this one guy at the old LGS in the town next to mine who done this ALL the time. First time I met the guy at FNM was during Scars block. He ran a B/U artifact deck and had a Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas out. I had him down to like 4 or 5 life. Instead of me swinging with my 2 creatures to kill Tezzeret, I swung at him for the kill. He goes wow that was dumb you should swung at my walker. He then taps down two black for Go for the Throat He then goes it wouldn't matter either way would I'm going to beat you and laughs. He did end up winning, and beat me 2-1. Ever since then I can't stand the guy. Luckily he hasn't shown up at the new store in the town.
Have I ever lost a friend while playing a game in real life? No luckily I haven't, but I have gotten into a few "verbal debates" with a few before. Nothing too bad and we usually end up drinking a beer afterwards. I've had a friend back during a IQ a few weeks back almost quit because he ran MUD and finished 2-4 that day. Few of us convinced him to not quit just take a break for a week or two to calm down. I've almost been in that situation myself, but just skip a few weeks to pull myself back up and end up doing fairly well.
I agree with you 110% on treating your fellow player nicely and with respect. I've seen many times a little kid come in with a deck thrown together with cards he had just gotten to start learning to play. He lost every round but one since he got the bye. He had overheard a couple people talking saying the kid's deck sucked and all that and it hit the poor fellow hard. Me and a few others noticed, and after FNM we set him down and helped him with his deck. We all pitched in and gave him some of our stuff we would never use that he could. We even gave him some foil versions of stuff he had.
That was probably the happiest I've seen someone in a long time. He came back the next week and went 3-2 and almost got top 8. He wasn't bummed out that he missed prize support or anything. He was happy that he managed to win some. Overall I enjoyed your article Spootyone and look forward to your future articles as well. Keep up the good work!
February 10, 2014 8:50 a.m.
I can't agree more on what your wrote. I can't tell you how many times I simply did not want to play or continue because of other players. It was, in a sense, a form of Elitism. Most top players seemed to thrive on being the best and when they lost, the rage storm ensued.
I got started right as The Scars block was rotating out, I loved the game when I first started. Did I know how to play very well? No. Could a build a competitive deck? No. Did I have fun even though I always went 1-3 or 0-4? Yes. The game for me was not about winning, it was about having a good time hanging out with friends and fellow gamers and just playing a GAME. Through my experience though, I grew to hate the game. I hated when people asked to see my deck, only to receive remarks like, "Wow, why did you put this in here?" or "I have a deck like this, but it's actually good." Now I'm not one to be sensitive, I can take a joke easily. But the arrogance of some magic players boggles my mind.
Shortly after Return to Ravnica came out, I almost hated the game. I kept trying to play because I loved Magic but hated the community. I went to a Gran Prix with two other players I knew from the shop. We were all having fun, until we went on a three-man team and played sealed. I went 1-3 and they went 3-1 & 4-0. They constantly blamed be for them not winning. That day I sold all the card I got there and temporarily quit. Soon after that another one of my friends wanted to start playing magic, so I loaded up my car with my collection (about $300 worth) and didn't think about it over night, the next day I was going to give him a lot of it. When I woke up, I saw my car had been broken into and everything Magic wise I had, had been taken. With no cards left, a bad taste in my mouth for the Magic community and just an overall bad feeling towards the game, I quit.
Sorry for ranting, doubt anyone will even read this. But my point of my story is this, I just got started again with the pre-release of Theros. I played in the pre-release and got 2nd place! Then, made a deck and tested it for around a month. Played in a standard tournament and got 1st place! 5-0, when undefeated the whole night! Now, I wasn't happy because I won packs or won in general, I was happy because I realized something. I can make decks, I can play and be decent and even if I can't it shouldn't matter because, it's a game and you're supposed to have fun!
Thank you Spootyone, for this article. It's good to know someone else out there thinks the same as me.
February 10, 2014 9:40 a.m.
I couldn't agree more with everything you said. My wife plays magic and loves the casual side of it. Unfortunately when I tried to help her make the move to competitive magic she had a terrible experience. Her first modern tournament consisted of 3 out of 4 of her opponents being condescending and rude to her because of their "superior decks" and "superior knowledge". This is a phenomenon I refer to as "nerd smug". It's a false sense of self importance based and a perceived higher level of knowledge in regards to a socially fringe hobby. It's the largest barrier magic has in attracting new players aside from cost. Thankfully we found a much friendlier LGS to play at so she hasn't given up completely. While I'm at it another big turn off to potential female players is hygiene. Every one knows the guys I'm talking about, if you don't you could potentially be one of them. Please shower and wear clean clothes to FNM. If your financial situation comes down to soap or cards then please rethink your priorities.
February 10, 2014 9:48 a.m.
Btw that 4th player that was nice to her was none other than Star City Games edh Guru Bennie Smith
February 10, 2014 9:52 a.m.
RussischerZar says... #7
A+ would read again. Also strongly reminded me of another article I read around Christmas.
February 10, 2014 10:36 a.m.
It was a joy to read your article. I myself agree with everything you said in this piece, especially as I have been there before. I just recently returned to this game after having left it for 3 years due to the bullying and the lack of considerate people who, after being asked to help me get better at the game, basically don't give me anything but sarcasm. I am now back in the game playing edh thanks to a small group of players who have been super in offering advice and ideas for playing.
February 10, 2014 11:54 a.m.
squadcarxmar says... #9
I completely agree I ser this all the time. I hate blue and I hate going infinite but I won't belittle someone else due to my opinion. Now, I'll pick on a close friend about it and they'll return the favor but that's because we are friends. We don't ever throw flak to someone we don't know well enough or someone who would take it seriously.We should be able to up vote articles haha.
February 10, 2014 11:55 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #10
The "try hards" and d-bags I've had to deal with over the last several years of being more involved in sanctioned events have actually gotten me to change my own demeanor. Instead of simply being "polite, nice guy", I've pushed myself to "very friendly and encouraging" to try and balance out the experience that new players I meet are getting from the game. In my mind, getting this alternative example of a serious player is very important, because over the past year or so I've met several new players that unfortunately ended up learning bad habits/attitudes from the jerks they were exposed to.
I did almost quit the game last year after a bad player-to-player experience. I was losing hard at FNM and got stuck with a bye in the last round, but the guy running the event offered to play me if I wanted to pass the time and get some more practice. I already didn't like him very much, but I decided to go for it. He beat me pretty bad in 2 and then proceeded to very bluntly criticize my deck choice, card choices, and play style, acting his regular cocky self the whole time. In the car on the way home I had a real moment of "after 18 years this is all I can manage, and I didn't even have fun, so why do I even bother?" Thankfully, I decided to sleep on it, calm down, and talk things out with a good friend.
February 10, 2014 12:11 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #11
I enjoyed the article. My local shop has a steady supply of new players at the prereleases every time an Everytime they get discouraged by the same group of unshowered tools who berate them for trying to build around a certain color they liked. It sucks. Then when the kids ask to trade the older guys try to scalp them on value. I saw it happen and tried to stop it. My buddy and I explained he got ripped off and gave him our Nessian Wilds Ravager 's(i went blue seeded and pulled 2 of those pieces of crap) bc he wanted to build a deck around him. The kid got excited and we played a few times since.
It just sucks when that "nerd smug" kicks in. I love that term btw. There's a reason most magic players are social outcasts, bc they push everyone else away. Great article through and through
February 10, 2014 12:22 p.m.
A couple times before I have also behaved badly in the Magic community...
One time my friend bought a green/white flickering event deck, but he chose to break it down into two monocolored decks. I said to him that he "ruined the deck" and he was clearly hurt by it. I later apologized and he was okay with it. I later found out that he didn't like dual colored decks, so what he did made sense.
Another time I was teaching a friend to play Magic. I'm usually really good at teaching people Magic and I'm patient with beginners. For whatever reason, this one friend made me want to raise my voice and get mad when he didn't understand a concept or he misread a card.
About a year later one weekend (and this incident I especially regret), I was about to play a Commander game with some new people I haven't met before. Their playgroup used a mulligan rule that went "If you don't like your opening hand, you may put it aside and draw 7 new cards. You may repeat this as many times as you choose." I didn't like that rule so somehow I got mad and told them (basically yelled) that it wasn't a real mulligan and it didn't make any sense. They tried to calmly explain that the rule has worked in their playgroup with no problems. Eventually I calmed down and didn't bring it up again. What a way to make a first impression, huh? I don't know what got into me, but I remember I had a bad week then.
Yeah... Consider this post to be a sin confession of mine.
February 10, 2014 12:25 p.m.
This article and the comments make me feel real good about my shop. Though I've heard negative comments about a couple players and others having issues with some people. None of it borders on being aggressively negative. It's mostly people tired of one person because they've known x person for so long, that it's just what it is. New players, might have an issue with one of the 'try-hards' but that's not because he's berating them, but being very technical and not playing with the understanding 'new player'., Though the smell problem is universal, it is what it is and if you want to meet someone to date, go to a club, not your lgs. Treat everyone like how you would want to be treated and the world is good.
February 10, 2014 12:28 p.m.
Good article...unfortunately my LGS is full of people, at all stages of the game, complain about everything that doesn't benefit their game. If they miss an early land drop and I do not its a tantrum. I recall a boy playing B/G aggro a few months ago, before rotation occurred. Walked out of the shop in the middle of a game because he felt he was in good shape to win since his oozes were indestructible and survived my Verdict. I top decked a Detention Sphere then followed it up with Angel of Serenity for the win. Sometimes things happen and all this situation needed was a kill spell in his hand or enchant hate. The following week he drew me in an early FNM round and refused to play against me so the shop owner asked if I minded switching opponents. I was fine with it, but this particular player leaves a sour taste in too many mouths. I agree with the spirit of this article for sure.
February 10, 2014 12:36 p.m.
Just wanted to say, nice article. It is a game and there no need to be rude to people in any situation. People need to relax and have fun. Thanks for posting this, I sincerely hope it has an impact.
February 10, 2014 12:51 p.m.
Really great article. This happens with every game. I read the exact same thing on teamliquid about DotA and Starcraft. I don't know what it is about people, there's no reason to be mean.
February 10, 2014 1:21 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #17
At my LGS, the common rule is "If you're sucking tonight, don't be a dick about it, play EDH instead." Our shop is owned by a lovely old couple that don't put up with any nonsense, so anyone who flips out gets the boot anyway, but it's pretty common to see people "Tactical drop" as we say to go play EDH at the back tables.
The only instance of the person described in the article that I've ever faced was a young kid that had a really hard time with social cues or etiquette. From round one, he was talking at an obnoxious volume, picking up his opponent's cards with his snot-covered hands (He was apparently sick and was using his palms as tissue) and proceeding to bend the cards beyond recognition, claiming that he won rounds that he hadn't actually won, and arguing rules that he didn't understand even with everyone around him telling him that he was wrong. I only see him at prereleases now, though, so I think he found a new place to terrorize.
The shop that I used to go to had a really big problem with people being dicks during the matches, and I just got tired of it. It wasn't so much that people were angry all the time, but everyone there was an elitist. If you aren't playing a tier one deck, you are literally worse than garbage. I couldn't stand them anymore, and i'm glad I found my new place.
February 10, 2014 1:25 p.m.
MinscAndBoo says... #18
Amen, Spooty. Poor sportsmanship is a major pet peeve of mine, particularly in MtG. My favorite is trolls who complain about my turn lengths at casual-level prerelease events, that are designed to be friendly and non-cutthroat.
Unfortunately our hobby attracts more than its share of immature, hypercompetitive nerds. I can only suggest laughing at them--and remember, if it gets really bad? Magic does have sportsmanship rules, technically you can call them on assy behavior at a tournament. I reserve my right to do that, haven't had to yet, but won't hesitate after warning a troll sitting opposite me that I will call them on it. We all need to do our part to create the environment the game needs.
My LGS has the standard mix of nice folks and the aforementioned problem types. I do my best to engage with the former and brush off the latter. When you're forced to play against them, my best advice is not to rise to the bait. It only fuels the fire and makes it worse.
If your LGS manager and judges aren't reminding players about a good-sportsmanship policy, or aren't enforcing it, let them know. Don't let the trolls come into your house and ruin your fun.
February 10, 2014 1:29 p.m.
I count myself lucky because of my first LGS. I've been told it's one of the most competitive shops in the country and most everyone who plays there has been playing for a long time. Even so, the first time I played at a sanctioned tournament (I lost horribly), quite a few of the people I played were really helpful and gave me a lot of advice, and were willing to trade with my rather poor collection. Overall, it was a good experience.
Unfortunately, I no longer enjoy the competitive environment and don't play much Standard anymore, mainly just EDH.
I have also lost a friend to the game. There were quite a few reasons that we're no longer friends, mainly the fact that he's an arrogant dick, but I'm pretty sure his MtG tantrums were part of it.
I've had very few experiences of dealing with bad sports, but the few that I have had left a sour taste in my mouth. I just hope I haven't been a jerk to anyone. No memory of anything like that comes to mind, but I may have been unintentionally irritating. Hope not.
All of these stories of bad players have brought to mind the old kids phrase "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all."
February 10, 2014 1:36 p.m.
The game of magic is very much like poker, and the game actually begins the moment you sit down across from your opponent.
if my opponent is whining like a baby because he missed a land drop on turn 3, I'm gonna use that info to my advantage.
If the opponent plays, island, pass with a shit-eating grin, I'm not gonna jam my threat. If the opponent is willing to offer up info, then use it to your advantage.
I understand the importance of not being a trolling d1ck when your winning at an FNM. You don't need to reveal the bomb drops in your hand when your opponent conceeds to your resolved AEtherling an stuff like that. Just quietly accept your win and move on to the next round.
February 10, 2014 1:40 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #21
I wish this website had some way to leave breadcrumbs for my friends. Other than mentioning them, because I don't want to call anybody out on this stuff, but I do know people who are guilty of it.
February 10, 2014 2:01 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #22
Also, the first event I went to was the Time Spiral prerelease. It was a complex, weird format, rewarded skill and having played with many older mechanics. I hadn't. My friend taught me how to play the week before. If it weren't for her helping me out, and a couple of really nice guys at the event, I probably wouldn't have gotten into the game. Now, however, I play a crazy amount, and brew all sorts of silly things. I still look back fondly on that tournament, and do my best to be as friendly, outgoing, and forgiving at small events as I can. At an FNM, I play much in the same way as I do on the kitchen table. I don't mind slower players, I'm happy to dole out advice after (or sometimes during) a game, especially with newer players, but I do my best to be courteous. Saying "Hey you should only do that at the end of my turn" isn't the same as "Doing that at the end of my turn instead of your first main phase allows you to react to things I do during my turn."
Make sure that every new player knows they're welcome, and the game will grow, and continue to be more fun. The nicer you are to scrubs, the nicer they'll be to the next generation of scrubs. And if you can't take losing to a silly deck every once in a while, get out of the game. It happens.
February 10, 2014 2:09 p.m.
squadcarxmar says... #23
I also believe this goes for anything that's a sport/game. Even if it's competitive. Even if it's competitive and you're competing for millions of dollars. Why get hateful? I noticed one friend of mine who would get heated on Xbox Live and if he got too angry he didn't play as well as he normally did. I mean it boils down to skill and what cards you have, and luck of the draw.
February 10, 2014 2:25 p.m.
JaredMatthewsArtwork says... #24
It's all about intent. Everything you talked about in this article, if done with a positive attitude, is very healthy for the magic community.
February 10, 2014 2:52 p.m.
thataddkid says... #25
One thing I run into so much both IRL and on cockatrice is that my Red Deck Wins "takes no thought or talent". It's people like this that piss me off- just because a strategy is more linear than most it does not mean it takes no skill. I have fallen into a rhythm at this point where it takes me very little time to make decisions because I think about these decisions so much when piloting this deck that I know what to do most of the time. However, just because I beat people quickly doesn't mean I have no skill. It's deckbuilding and intensity of decisions that make aggro a skillful deck. You need to guess topdecks, play around sweepers and kill spells, and try to keep your opponent off their wincon however it takes. People make me dislike playing M:tG just because I get lots of shit for playing aggro.
February 10, 2014 3:07 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #26
Sigh. I wish I could say I was innocent of this. I haven't ever been called out on it or anything, but so often I find myself getting pissy after losing matches to people I perceive to be worse than me. Or losing in general really. If I'm losing, I either write it off as "That guy is just a dick" or "I did a terrible draft because there is no way I should be losing to him". But this is a game! I'm judging people based off of slips of cardboard!
I'm highly competitive at heart, so scaling it back is difficult for me. My philosophy is that if I'm going to do something at it, I had better strive to be the best. That may sound nice, but in reality I just don't do much because I'm also moderately pessimistic ("I can't be the best at this, might as well not do it"). So when one of the few things that I enjoy doing is going poorly, I have difficulty viewing it rationally.
Thankfully I don't think that I'm a dick when winning. And I feel that that's more the issue of this discussion. We all know the people who look at their next draws after winning. Its fairly innocent (except when they say "dude, you were done anyway, look what I was going to draw"), but what more can you want? You won, no reason to see what would have happened. Or when they say "Good game" after you got mana screwed both games. Its a gesture of kindness, but there is no point in lying.
The other side of that is being able to be a gracious winner when the person you beat is like me (seething, pouting, you know). I don't really know how to do it. Usually I talk about good plays they made, and how I "really needed to deal with it or I would have been wrecked". However this seems forced. I don't want to tell them that their deck isn't good enough because I don't want to be that dick winner. But I also don't want to let them sit there thinking they just got unlucky, and don't understand why they keep losing and such.
Anyway, cool article Spooty. If we don't continuously bring up these issues, it will seem as if it is acceptable. Which it clearly is not.
February 10, 2014 3:56 p.m.
Spootyone, interesting article and a good read, some one or something really has got your back up and i'm sorry that the game or rather the people have got to you in that way.
I'm a little older than the average magic player and i play for the fun of the game, i make mistakes and i rarely win but i'm ok with that. Other players in my local group will stand round and poke remarks, question plays and generally be THAT guy who is an arse. However there are guys who will come over after the game and really have good chat, discuss tactics and usually have a laugh about my play style, the difference here is that they are laughing with me and not at me.
I some times sit back and look at my magic group and it's as my wife would say a bit of a geeks fest, no disrespect meant at all and i think here could be issue. I think i would be safe to say that none of my local group would generally fall into the category of being cool. However in the magic group environment there is a real chance of them being the best, being a winner, become the top dog and asserting a level of dominance. Unfortunately it seems that when this happens there is a great chance of becoming a complete and utter arse, full of it and full of themself. Now i'm no mathematician but theses type of player are the minority and thrive from grand standing, boosting and putting people down so there are two solutions
The majority (that us) shut them down by just playing our own game, try our best to beat them and take the moral high ground if we lose and lose with dignity and respect or.....
The majority (thats us) arm ourselves with basebat bats and hunt them down...they are not hard to find lets face it!
Just incase the British sense of humor has been missed solution 2 was in fact a joke.
All in all in every walk of life you get the one's you wont like, but what are they really to you...nothing, they are nothing, dont waste your time or effort on them there are so many other people in the world for you to meet.
February 10, 2014 4:23 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #28
I agree wholeheartedly with the article. The only exception would be when someone plays a Maze's End Turbofog deck, in which case they brought it upon themselves :)
February 10, 2014 4:36 p.m.
The worst scenario that ever happened to me was at an FNM. I (quite-handily) beat a regular store attendee 2-1 who spends lots of money and is very smug in both himself and his trade collection. he had won the first game and lost the next two so he had gotten subsequently more angry. after I officially declare my kill I reached out my hand and said, "good games man. Well played". His immediate response was, " Oh! you concede? you're shaking hands that means you concede!". which a judge was subsequently called over by him and spend the next 5 minutes telling him to stop being an asshole and accept his loss. he finally does, drops from the tournament first round, and leaves the store. He still comes in all the time, and he still acts the same way, but He rarely says a word to me if I play him and even less if I'm winning. some people never learn....
February 10, 2014 4:39 p.m.
Really great article, and I can definitely relate. At my very first FNM I used a Rakdos aggro deck that belonged to my friend's wife, and my first match was against an Azorius control player. We went 1-1, and in the third game I began to pull ahead. When I did, he started sarcastically "telling" me what to do on my turns: "Okay, now play a land - good! Now swing with your dudes - ah, you're doing great!" It was infuriating. Then later that night, someone asked me about my deck, so I told them it was Rakdos aggro, then some older dude who was not a part of the conversation decided to yell at me, saying that "Rakdos is not aggro, you don't know aggro until you've played green/red aggro! You don't know aggro until you've cast Burning-tree Emissary into Burning-tree Emissary into Burning-tree Emissary into Sylvan Caryatid!" I started backing away from him on his second repeat of "Burning-tree Emissary," thinking for sure he was about to try to tackle me.
The new LGS I attend is a little bit better, but last week some guy actually threw a chair and slammed his bag on his opponent's cards after losing. The week before that, some guy was yelling very loudly that his opponent was the "Top Deck King," etc. And then top of that, there's this one kid who is extremely rude to all of his opponents, and no one has the heart to tell his dad (who is always present).
It's this type of behavior that makes me worried to bring my girlfriend along once she moves here. She's not the type of person who will let another person be rude to her, and being new to the game, it's very likely that a single bad FNM could put her off for good.
Great article, and I agree with everything you said.
February 10, 2014 6:05 p.m.
Nigeltastic says... #31
I've never really had a bad time playing MTG, but I almost exclusively play either with a couple of my friends or at my LGS where everyone is really chill. There are still people with the "nerd smug" aspect about them, but they're always at least civil enough to not be complete dicks, and I've never seen anyone tilt out about anything. I feel like Cockatrice has a bad community or something, because I downloaded it, played 3 games, got raged at for not knowing all of the hotkeys and shortcuts, and then uninstalled it. It's too stressful for what I want to do.
February 10, 2014 6:06 p.m.
Please do not crucify me... i used to be one of those "sore losers" and when I did start winning more, I morphed into "I am Better than you guy". I never really played competetively, and I have only participated in 1 FNM. just one. but in casual play i was "THAT GUY". IN CASUAL PLAY with MY FRIENDS! Once I realized that my friends wouldn't/ didn't want to play against me for fear of both "Dr. Jekyll AND Mr. Hyde me".. i changed. To me the game isn't about W-L-T records... it is about fun. nothing more.. so even though I have standard legal decks I am content to sit around a table without prizes on the line, all to have a good time. I don't know if anyone out there has played me IRL, but if you have and saw what I am talking about, and i had directed it toward you, I apologize.... (the odds of this are slim, but still apologizing.)
February 10, 2014 6:12 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #33
Excellent article, Spootyone. Many of us have had our experiences on both sides of the spectrum, and almost everyone can sympathize with at least one point you've made. Every Magic player, or any gamer for that matter, should read this. It really sheds some light on the best (and worst) aspects of gaming, and reveals things about us that some may not have thought of. Again, great job!
February 10, 2014 7:28 p.m.
AussieBloke says... #34
I completely agree mate. My local shop has a fair amount of great people and a few real mongrels. I run at R/B midrange/cruelcontrol deck at FNM, and I personally apologies after every killspell. I hate doing it against new players, cause I know their really trying, but that's just my deck. The other day I versed a MBD deck, and Slaughter Games d his Gray Merchant. And. He. Laughed. Cause he still had fun! It was great and I traded with him afterwards. You accomplish nothing by putting down new or inexperienced players. Great article sir.
February 10, 2014 8:42 p.m.
I honestly think this is the single most important topic in MTG.
The value is important, the cards are too, but the community is really what keeps people playing (or not). I haven't had many bad experiences with players, as I don't often get offended and many attendees of my LGS have a good sense of humor. I can imagine that I would not be very happy and probably would call someone out on it if they were deliberately rude to multiple players, however. Being a kind and helpful player is something I do whenever I can.
I don't play to win, I play to have fun.
February 10, 2014 8:46 p.m.
lord_of_the_snakes says... #36
i've had this problem a couple of times, being on the end recieving the anger, from the netdecker, who i lost to 2-1 at theros game day, he got so pissed since i managed to ramp into Colossus of Akros in my R/G midrange vs. his R/G devotion that he netdecked, and slaughtered him with it, honestly, that was fun, but i didn't do anything bad, i just used the card the way it was meant to, and it worked the way it's supposed to, am i the bad guy, i didn't say anything about it, that was what the guy watching our match did for me.
scenario 2 was a 2-0 win playing U/B control in theros draft vs U/W voltron, since i countered his Benthic Giant , the one card he could potentially use to kill me, with Stymied Hopes , why do people hate my tendancies to use "bad" cards to the fullest of their ability, an i think it shows something to my ability since i'm usually playing something similar to the netdecker at our store, with some differences that make it fun and unique.
February 10, 2014 9:18 p.m.
HRAnderson says... #37
Agree 100%. Crap like this happens to me several places, just luckily not my LGS. Another irritating thing: RULESHARKS!! Just ask an organizer/judge if we disagree about rules for Christ's sakes!
February 10, 2014 9:27 p.m.
I think that pretty much every competitive player has been tilted when the opponent luck-sacks the only card in their deck that they could have drawn to beat you, or at the very least, have lost to ridiculous mana screw/flood. As players of this game, we get passionate about it. That's fine, we proudly wear the geek badge as we sit down Friday night to spend 8+ hours playing a game that we love.
An occasional slip is understandable, and most people do it, but when it becomes an overbearing trait of your personality, there is a problem. We really do need to do better as a community.
Great article, man.
February 10, 2014 9:28 p.m.
It's like this wherever you go in this world, unfortunately. Doesn't matter what you're doing, when, where, how, or why. There are always going to be d*cks.
Just don't be one of them.
February 10, 2014 10:09 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #40
I feel pretty lucky that my LGS is almost nothing like this. FNM's usually turn out 40-50 people or even more, but there is literally only one guy who fits that description. Sure, there's a lot of "nerd smug" types but very rarely do you see someone openly disrespecting their opponent.
The one guy I am referring to takes "nerd smug" to a whole new level, and as a result most people there don't like him much. He always netdecks a Tier 1 deck (not that that's inherently bad) and overtly has this attitude that he is too good for anyone else at the shop who isn't working toward being a Pro (funny enough, I can't remember him winning a single FNM). I have seen him criticize people's decks, plays, whatever you can name, and he tilts hard when he loses to someone he deems to be an inferior player.
My only bad run-in with him personally happened about a month ago at a Wednesday tourny. We were matched in the last round before Top 8, and we both needed a win to make the cut. I was playing my GU Devotion homebrew, while he was playing a MUD netdeck. I won game 1, and he was already bitching about how lucky I was. He won game 2, then proceeded to take a bathroom break. Our 3rd game was intense as I had him down to a few life and we both had solid armies out, his led by Thassa, God of the Sea that threatened to knock out my life in a couple turns. Time expired, so we went to "turns" which meant one of us had to win in 5 turns or it'd be a draw, and we were the last match so everyone was watching. Due to the complex board state and the fact that we weren't on the clock anymore, I was taking my time to make sure I played correctly, and he kept making comments like "we're not getting any younger over here" and gay little remarks like that. Again, he took a freakin bathroom break while we were still on the clock and was rushing me when we were already on turns; the logic of that escaped me.
Anyways, after I drew my card on my last turn, I knew I couldn't win, and against any other opponent I would have just conceded to let them make top 8. However, I was so fed up with his BS that I decided to play it out, and I found a line that forced him to devote enough chump blockers for me to survive his counterattack at literally ONE LIFE during his last turn. The judge asked us what we wanted the result to be, and I said "let's do a draw" which ensured neither of us would make top 8. It was admittedly petty, but given his poor sportsmanship, also admittedly quite gratifying lol. He was tilting so hard as we packed up our decks, criticizing everything from my pace of play to the deck itself, then had the gall to say something like "you know, if I was in your position I would've let you have the win" (total BS from knowing the guy). I had managed to keep my mouth shut the whole time but that finally made me crack, so as I left I retorted "If you weren't such a little bitch, I probably would have." Haha that was definitely my worst sportsmanship moment as a Magic player but given the circumstances, I didn't really feel that bad about it.
February 10, 2014 10:51 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #41
ChrisHansonBiomancin, using the word gay as a derogatory term instantly makes you seem like a shittier person than him. Just sayin. <3
February 11, 2014 12:04 a.m.
iamacasual says... #42
The worst are new players that ask you, a more experienced player, for help with their decks and when you painstakingly comb every card in their build, filter out the bad ones and explain why they're bad, and suggest objectively better cards and explain why they're better, they proceed to say that you're wrong.
Then don't ask for my help.
February 11, 2014 12:08 a.m.
Sweet-Nightmare says... #43
There's one spike in particular I can't stand at my LGS; he generally plays EDH(I know, a spike that plays EDH, weird) but always has something loud and obnoxious to say about any deck that isn't one of the top eight decklists. I've figured out to just not talk to him at all if I can help it, but sometimes I have to step in to keep him from chasing off new people. (Not often, we generally get 150+ players at every FNM so the chances of him coming in close proximity to the new players is fairly low.) The biggest mistake my LGS ever made was making an EDH tournament; the only thing worse than Standard spikes are EDH spikes.
There's also a friend I will not play with because he gets hyper competitive. (Unless he's drunk; I beat him into the ground once while he was intoxicated and he was totally cool with it.) Like, throw a fit if something goes wrong hyper competitive. So we talk, but we don't play; it's better that way. He doesn't play FNM anymore because he knows he gets like that and avoids modern and legacy like the plague.
There's also a friend I have who only ever netdecks and immediately knocks down any and all decks that aren't a netdeck worth at LEAST 100+ dollars. (On the flip side, I have another friend who acts like a spike, but is really just disguising his johnnyness. I theorize so he can fit in better with the spike crowd.)
February 11, 2014 12:30 a.m.
@Sweet-Nightmare: He's not alone, I'm also an EDH playing Spike. Timmy-Spike anyway. I play for fun and to win.
To all who dislike "Spike"
I believe myself to be what most of the MtG community calls a "Spike." I have a very competitive personality and I don't like to lose. At anything. Ever. When I play a video game, card game, or any other kind of game, I play to win. This does not mean I don't care about having fun. If I'm not enjoying myself, there's no point in doing what I'm doing and I might as well be doing homework (which I should be doing instead of writing this).
Spike tends to get a lot of hate from the online community. Most every time I see discussion about Spike, people don't like the competitive nature and usually refer to Spike in a derogatory term. Spike is a competitive player. Which is why Spike plays at tournaments. Being a competitive player does not automatically make me a douche.
Anyway, this rant does have a point, believe it or not. Being a competitive player is not a bad thing. Even though I am a competitive player, I want to have fun and I play MtG because it's an enjoyable game. I play to have fun and to win, but I don't treat anyone differently because of what deck they're playing. If they're new and playing a thrown-together random deck, I just remember when I was at their point. Just because I am a Spike does not mean I am a bad sport. "Spike" should not be a derogatory term in the way it generally is, but rather an archetype of player personality, just like Timmy, Power Gamer and Johnny, Combo Player . The people who practice bad sportsmanship should be labelled something different. I have recently become fond of the word "douchenozzle."
February 11, 2014 1:31 a.m.
Fantastic article man, that sort of thing happens a lot to me. One time I was playing a 4-player commander game online, which in itself is a silly gametype, and a guy forfeit because of a Curse of Echoes . Happens too much that people quit because of one bad thing.
February 11, 2014 1:59 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #46
@NotSoLuckyLydia: ugh, get over it. Nuff said.
@thePESSIMIST: You're right; in fact, Johnny seems to be the only one of the 3 profiles that doesn't have a negative connotation (Timmy seems to be associated with playing overcosted, uncompetitive cards). I classify myself as a Johnny-Spike since I only play my own home brews and enjoy the process of deckbuilding and experimenting with new synergies, but decks get kicked to the curb pretty quickly if they aren't competitive. That said, almost all douchesnozzles seem to fall into either the Spike (those who criticize any deck that's not Tier 1) or Johnny (those who look down on players who netdeck) category.
February 11, 2014 2:04 a.m.
A few points I'm gonna make, no, I haven't bothered to read the comments so far as they're longer than the article, except for the last couple.
a.) aggro decks take skill to play - not AS much as control I'd say, but they still require lots of skill to pilot properly. The ability to maintain enough pressure to keep board advantage, and to know when to commit heavily to the board.
b.) not all spikes are dicks. The majority of dicks are spikes, but they're not interchangeable. There are nice people who like to win, and there are probably some mean Timmy's out there.
c.) I personally am against netdecking, but anything is fair at a competitive tournament and in that environment I have no problem with it. Whilst I wouldn't do it myself, I don't see any isssue with it. It's when people play a net deck in a casual environment that I dislike. Seriously, don't be a dick and play MUD against your friend's Minotaur tribal. You can play a powerful deck, but don't just netdeck, as you're not proving very much to anyone in that environment, except that you're a wang.
February 11, 2014 2:08 a.m.
Godfingerslash says... #48
This is a very good article, Spootyone. I'm sorry that you're going through a bad time right now regarding your playtesting. As I read through the entire article and all of the following responses, it reminded me of everything in the past as an MTG Player, all the way back from when I was playing on day 1. And if I would be given the opportunity to go back in time, I'd undo the wrong things that I committed as redemption.
Have I lost a good friend because of MTG? ALMOST. And if I didn't snap out of it back then (thanks to their heart-to-heart confrontation with me), I'd lost ALL OF THEM at the same time. I admit, I'm a very competitive player to the point that sometimes people think I'm becoming relentless. And to top it off, sadly, I'm also a very temperamental person. In my self evaluation, I'd consider myself as "Rage made flesh". It all started way back in college when I began playing MTG during the conclusion of Betrayers of Kamigawa. One of my friends that I just met back in college taught me everything I needed to know in playing the game, and I was very thankful for that. All the way during the Ravnica era, I was playing a B/R Rakdos the Defiler Land Destroyer/Discarder deck. I was crippling all of my friends' card decks back in campus. At first, I was having fun. But unfortunately, I wasn't able to keep myself in check and my winning streak got all the way into my head to the point that I was already one of those bad players mentioned in the article.
Although unintentional, I felt so guilty of what happended because I hurted my friends and I almost became the very kind of player that I never wanted to be. And because of that incident, I dismantled my card deck and "sealed away" Rakdos back into my binder for the next few years, all the way up to the Lorwyn block and other later sets..
Despite my competitive nature as a player, I was only able to participate in one major tournament, the PTQ for Grandprix Honolulu. replacing my old Rakdos LD/Discard deck was still a B/R deck, but this time it was the Satanic Sligh deck, 60% netdecked, 40% personal settings in order to keep up with the metagame of that time.
I guess joining that tournament was perhaps my first step of redeeming myself after what I did to my friends (we were able to reconcile and all was forgiven at the end of the incident, but at the cost of all them quitting MTG, leaving me the only player left at campus). Everything went well for me so far at PTQ. The players were nice in a neutral kind of way, and I discovered that my deck was now a Rogue Type and all except one player (using a Gruul Aggro deck) was dumbfounded when they faced me and my card deck. I ended my participation in the event with a record of 2-3, my 3 losses from the Gruul player and 2 Storm decks. I was eliminated but nevertheless achieved a sense of fulfillment because my dream as an MTG player was to join a major tournament.
I also had my own share of encountering a bad player in MTG back in early 2012, although it was not in-game but rather via general inquiry. I was looking for a single copy of Graven Cairns (the Future Sight ver.), so I asked an MTG community group page in facebook for information. Then, a player responded, offering a copy of Graven Cairns but it was the Shadowmoor ver. I politely declined and explained that I was looking for the FS ver., to which the player disrespectfully replied "Did I ask!?". At that moment, I got really angry and tried to check his facebook profile but the player deactivated his account after giving the response. I was so pissed that I vented out what happened on FB, to which only a few symphatized and I was eventually misjudged as the villain by most of the community thus becoming their Troll Food. And because of that, I rage quitted from playing MTG, selling off almost all of my cards including my nine copies of Dark Confidant.
Then, after roughly 2 years of quitting the game, I returned from playing but only from the shadows. I lost my faith in most players here up to the point that I became very cautious and choosy when playing at a LGS. I now even question the intergrity of their trust after what they did to me online..
That said, I strongly support Spootyone's sentiments in this article. We should be honorable, respectful, kind and considerate to all fellow players, regardless if they're new or veterans. Not just here in MTG, but in the world of gaming as an entirety...
February 11, 2014 2:33 a.m.
quesobueno123 says... #49
I have had only one bad experience with someone at my LGS this was when I was new to the game. It was my turn and he was beating me and I accidently drew before untapping and he made me leave my lands and mana dorks tapped, the next game I attacked with my large 3/3 and played a pump spell making it a 6/4 as he blocked with a 1/3 and a 2/2 and then said that I could only kill one of his creatures I believed him and after everyone else said I should have called over the judge.
February 11, 2014 6:53 a.m.
sergarrick says... #50
My FNM is actually pretty awesome about this. Its a college town so 90% of the players are around the same age, not that anyone cares. Ironically, the only true bad seeds play draft. We did once have a kid who was about 11 come play with us. Everyone was super respectful and tried to help him play his best. My favorite moment however was just at BNG prerelease when a competitive drafter who is there all the time drew into straight mana and threw his deck on the ground. Everyone else had a good laugh after he left though.
February 11, 2014 9:06 a.m.
deathtouch_roadrunner says... #51
"The only thing worse than Standard spikes are EDH spikes."
This. Seriously.
February 11, 2014 9:38 a.m.
thePESSIMIST I agree with you. I would definitely slot myself into a spike/johnny category. I always play with home-brews. Yes, I look at the top decks and incorporate many of the starts in my builds, but building is my favorite part of the game. While I have no problem with others doing it, me piloting a net-deck nukes the fun for me.
That said, I try never to be mean to anyone, and usually go out of my way to help people. I hate losing... hate it. I'm hyper competitive, in pretty much every aspect of my life; however, that does not make me a bad person, just a competitive one. I greatly enjoy close games, and am known at my LGS for stabilizing at 1 or 2 life and coming back to win the game.
So yes, I am a Spike. I am also an experienced player that tries to help people get better. I thrive in competition, and I want everyone around me to eventually be able to play at my level. Tearing people down, and running them away from the game, is counter-productive towards my goals.
There are bad apples in every bunch; however, we need to get better as a community if we want this game to survive. If you are an experienced player, help newer players without making them feel stupid. Encourage younger players, and female players wading into a largely adult male dominated game. Encourage fathers and mothers learning to play the game with their kids, as well as each other, so that everyone will improve, and our game will thrive.
February 11, 2014 3:28 p.m.
Sweet-Nightmare says... #53
@thePESSIMIST I know Spike doesn't always mean douche; I have yet another handful of friends who are very competitive and get very wrapped up in games, but are always good sports win or lose. It's what I like to call UltraSpikes that I can't stand, the ones that throw fits if they don't win, or gloat when they do win, or put down other people's decks completely. (I love seeing decks from people that just started playing, and usually offer advice on better tricks with it or cheap cards that could improve it, but I never ever ever put down someone's deck, ever. It's just rude.)
February 11, 2014 3:37 p.m.
Thank you to everyone for the vast number of responses and support on this article. I'm really glad to see that many of you are still interested in my articles even when they aren't the normal stuff I do! I'll have to do randoms like this more often.
It's crazy hearing some of these stories you all have left here. I can't believe store owners allow this sort of behavior to occur in their places of business. The fact that so many of you have ended your stories with "so I stopped going there and found a new place that doesn't have this problem" really just goes to show how badly it can affect business. IF there happen to be any shop owners reading this, take good notes!
And to those who have admitted to poor conduct, I can tell you that coming to terms with poor behavior and changes one's self is a very hard thing to do and takes a lot of courage. So kudos for doing that!
February 11, 2014 7:10 p.m.
Sweet-Nightmare, deathtouch_roadrunner - You realise that you can be a spike (in EDH / standard / whatever) without being a prick right?
Feeling slightly offended by that comment and the sweeping generalisation it makes about literally hundreds (thousands?) of players you've never met........
February 11, 2014 7:18 p.m.
I quit playing mtg because my head is a mess most of the time, and while I attended tournaments for fun, usually I'd leave frustrated because indeed some guy would gloat or whatever.
Even worse though is my experience with those guys, and I'm damn sure you know them, who take advantage of the fact that I did not read the price lists before showing up at that pre-release event!!!
On several occasions I've encountered people who would try to get their hands on for example, ravnica dual lands, by trading them with noobs for some 1999 crap rare. I daresay these people are even worse than the unsportsmanlike players, they're basically scammers on the look out for easy prey.
They would justify their behavior by saying things like 'it's not their responsibility', however it is indisputable that monetary value is attached to single mtg cards, and that they consciously exploit new players when they take part in these horrible trades.
It's got to the point where the first thing I teach any friend who wants to learn the game that these cards can have real value, and that people will be trying to scam them for it. That they should always check the price lists before trading..., that there are people out there with absolutely no respect for them or their valuables.
It grosses me out, so yeah I left the local community, playing mtg with only a small group of friends every now and then.
February 11, 2014 7:51 p.m.
Well, nobody will be reading my post, my cents:
I am a dick. I'm a control player. I am BlackGrixis Control player. I like to torture, play and toy around with my opponent, until I decide to finish it off with a colossal blowout.
BUT, just because someone is playing an evil deck, that person has NO right, to insult opponents, cheat or abuse loopholes in amateur mistakes.
I've seen the same thing multiple times in my warhammer past, when people were playing the "bad" armies, like Chaos Space Marines, rat-people and stuff. Guys thinking that way, are the worst.
For myself, I'm easy to piss off, because I'm an angry person. That's a part of my character. But I'd never insult someone about a game I lost or because that person had better sealed pool. Shit happens. Maybe a quick "Fuck!", but that's aimed at nobody. You win games and you'll lose even more, learn to deal with that.
February 11, 2014 8:16 p.m.
Sweet-Nightmare says... #58
@ChiefBell, I will repeat, it is the extreme that I dislike, as I clarified in my second post. I know many of what folks would consider 'Spikes' that are perfectly rational people. Then along come the UltraSpikes to ruin everyone's fun. I figure it's a nicer term than calling them 'those douchebags at FNM I wish would just go away'.
February 11, 2014 10:36 p.m.
Blizzicane says... #59
Thank goodness I never experience anyone like that before in magic. :D Everyone I met so far in magic has been nice to me. :3
Anyways, don't let them get to you Spooky you will ELIMINATE ALL THOSE WHO OPPOSE YOU get through this! >:3
February 16, 2014 10:43 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #60
I am really glad to see so many people talking about this. you are absolutely right, spooty. I am a control player at heart, and I totally understand the frustration of losing to a control strategy. before I got into the more competitive scene, I had a grixis control deck. I tookit to theros game day, and played against a guy who actually accused me of cheating because I ened up casting all 4 of my Far / Away s. I beat him 2-0, and I swear he looked like he was going to flip the table. I tried to be as respectful as possible and go as easy as I could, but he still got angry. he even refused to shake my hand after I beat him. I have had similar experiences with the friend that I playtest with. he comes over to my house most days so we can brew and test. more often than not, I win against him. he also has a tendency to rage quit. I have recently switched to a naya ramp deck. often times, he scoops at the sight of polukranos if he doesn't have a removal spell. it is really frustrating for me because I cant get an honest assessment of my deck. often times I have just that polukranos and a hand full of lands. I show him my hand and he still scoops. I try to be a good sport and a "graceful loser" when I lose. so id like to say thank you for writing this article. I think the game could be a lot more fun if people would just relax and remember that is just a game.
February 17, 2014 1:27 a.m.
shaistyone says... #61
I have had so many run-ins with this kind of behavior, it gets to be a cliche. For my self, I only really get abusive if I'm mana-screwed. Granted, I'm yelling at my deck when that happens, but it could be off-putting to someone.
My favorite example of bad behavior was when I was playing a Modern match. Not a tournament or FNM thing, just waiting for the next EDH game to start. My opponent had one of the $1000 monstrosities and I was playing my no-rares mono-red. After numerous snarky comments throughout, I ended up snuffing him out 2-0 rather easily.
He positively exploded after that, almost frothing at the mouth. I may have made it worse with my comment: "In that last game, you lost 5 life from your lands, and 4 more to your Dark Confidant
. I'm playing a fast mono-red deck. Thanks for the help in killing you!"
February 17, 2014 1:55 a.m.
To everyone who has posted horror stories about another player: I want you to think about their behavior. Think about just how inexcusable it is. And then think of what would have to happen to you for you to act that way. Not what would happen in the game, but outside it. Girl/Boyfriend broke up with you? Just found out a relative died? Got yelled at by your manager for something he messed up on? Got fired? Car break down? Just had a bad day?
I guarantee it isn't as much as you'd hope. I should know. I've gone into games tilting out at the world at least 4 times in the past two weeks. So before you wish hell on the other guy, maybe you should instead think about how little it would take to put you in their shoes, and instead wish that they have an awesome day.
February 17, 2014 2:08 a.m.
I know the feeling and I see this a lot on cockatrice. I honestly just laugh when people ragequit at me and say something like "enjoy your shit deck" whenever I'm playing something not T1 or boots me from a game they are losing. Really I've only been on it for a few months and I've lost track of all the people doing things like that because it happens almost every time I go on. I could go on quite a rant about it but in the end its not something in my control, and I'm not going to let a few magic snobs stop me from enjoying the creativity possible in this game or deter me from trying new things.
Anyway if anyone wants a chill person to test your decks against add Jagoob on cockatrice :P
February 17, 2014 5:11 a.m.
Odorous_Walker says... #64
I agree, I remember my first SCG open that I went to in Dallas, TX. I was roughly new to competitive magic and I just wanted to have fun. So instead of entering a constructed deck (because I am in no way a millionare) I entered in draft. I did not realize (espically after the hours of youtube videos watching awesome players play) how cut throat and serious some people are about a game that just a few days ago I was sitting at a kitchen counter top laughing and having a good time about. Yes even I get salty (FUCKING SUPER FRIENDS) but you know what it is a part of me that I learned to use as what I have come to know as the 5th round (my local fnm is 4 rounds of swiss) what is the 5th round. Similar to that ad campaign from gatorade you sit back and study your previous match, debrief yourself on your plays, and find out how to tune and tweak to come back better. It is why we play as demonstrated by your article. But I have seen the darker side, like I mentioned my first SCG (got my ass handed to me btw) I did draft, I was new to draft and had a 60 card deck with 4 delvers and a mill strategy (INS INS DKA) the guy sitting accross from me scoweld and said this was a bad idea having my first draft at an open. I shruged and said I was here more or less to see the better players play. Every turn after that there was a judge call on me. I learned the guy was riding he rent on the event. HIS RENT, this man was risking his finnacle status to play a card game. But I digress we just need to take a step back and appreciate magic for the great hobby that it is and let our frustrations become our stregnths.
February 17, 2014 6:32 a.m.
I have seen a lot of this when people look at my decks or play against my tron or my mill...I had someone tell me that the only reason i ever beat him is cause of my "shitty mill deck" I asked them if my deck is so shitty then how come it beat you? Whatever though I came back next week and proved him wrong again by beating him with my "shitty tron deck"
Heres something that this article did not touch up on that really ticks me off. I really and I mean REALLY hate it when someone feels like they have to come over and tell my opponet what moves to make or tell me what moves to make. Sometimes I go to the card shop just to play casually with my friends and I dont feel like we need other players imput on how our decks are run while were playing them.
February 17, 2014 12:04 p.m.
Completely agreed.
As a new player, I've gotten a taste of both so far. I haven't received any bad remarks about the decks I play with, but I have had someone on Cockatrice (who should have noticed the "new user" indicator in the game I created) repeat something to the effect of "c'mon, hurry up!" and then rage-quit halfway in. Playing at FNM, though, everyone is civil... my opponents are completely understanding. I might personally get frustrated by a control or really aggro deck, but I'll roll with it and get some ideas for the next time.
The fact that it's easier to be an ass online than it is in person probably has a lot to do with that, though.
February 20, 2014 5:25 p.m.
Greatest article ever!!! So many things do get ruined by people like this, not just in magic, but just about every game!
February 25, 2014 7:33 p.m.
Almost everyone is agreeing with your article (I have not read ALL of the responses). I do too. But I have a feeling articles like this are coming out all over the place. Its easy for people to see the aggressive DB jerk in other people. But turning that judgmental eye on themselves is the hard part. I know I have been a jerk in the past, but I THINK I've addressed those issues in myself. When people flip out when they lose, how many of us think about WHY they flipped out, and look at what we did or said to those people during the game. (but I'm Minnesotan, so everything has to feel a little like my fault.) It may not have seemed mean, but was it? If someone flips out, it IS their fault, but 75% of the time it's instigated. (Of course I made that stat up! But it feels about right to me based on my observations.) Anyway, constructive criticism and people skills are things that need to be cultivated, and if you are the one say THAT person need to change. . . usually there is something you could change too. On the other hand, some people are just crybabies.
March 1, 2014 1:34 p.m.
Caerid: Fair point to be made here. However, when a situation arises like the one I experienced last night, things are different. I played Plasm Capture on a guy and then on my next turn created a huge Mistcutter Hydra . And how did he respond? He repeatedly called me "stupid" and accused me of doing things incorrectly even after I ignored his namecalling and explained calmly why what I did was correct.
This is the particular situation I want to bring up more than anything else I think. This kind of behavior is simply venomous to any gaming community. There will always be assholes, but if enough people change themselves then this sort of situation can begin to be snuffed out.
But you are very right. I encourage everyone to look at themselves first before blaming others for bad sportsmanship. You can be the nicest player out there and still accidentally set some people off by saying something and not noticing or otherwise instigating (as Caerid so well put) a reaction from them.
Happy testing, everyone. And thank you all for continued reading :)
March 1, 2014 9:21 p.m.
NoPantsParade says... #70
Great article! I agree with everything you wrote. Fortunately, my LGS doesn't really have any jerks, except for two, but then again, I rarely go due to school. I started playing last year and somehow started in EDH. My friend urged me to start standard, so I made a Wild Beastmaster with bloodrush mechanics and whatnot deck because it had that EDH appeal/feel. At the next FNM, I laid out my deck to make any last minute changes, and this guy made a comment about how much it sucked and everything. I played him in the first round and beat his $400 deck with my $100 jank deck. Swung for 20 on turn 4 both games. Ended up going 3-1 that night. Everyone loved the deck, too, after seeing it perform so well. The same night, during the third round, this guy and I were competing for the final round, and my Beastmaster deck pulled through again. However, he tried to resolve a counterspell without a legal target to activate Blind Obedience and gain life to avoid losing. It took about 5 turns until everyone in the store had to tell him that what he was doing was wrong. He claims that you used to be able to do that, but he had the same exact deck until rotation, so he was obviously showing bad sportsmanship. He ended up stealing my dice after the match. Oh well.
March 1, 2014 11:26 p.m.
As a Spike-EDH player, I realize I am not a popular fellow in the eyes of the EDH community. With that knowledge, I try to be as polite and friendly as I can while playing. I've never spoken ill of someone's card choices, or what they do in a game. Their decisions are their own, and if they fun, I am very happy for them. I always try to encourage people and give some advice (if it is welcome). I'm not blameless, however. In the past, I did have times of being a general douchebag, but as Gatecrash came around, I began to try and amend my behavior.
A lot of people I meet and my LGS's avoid me like the plague because I am competitive in nature. One of my playgroups dis-included me from all of their events because I seek to win. There was one event where they had invited me to the Theros prerelease, something we all had been looking forward to for weeks. At the time, I didn't have a car, but they still offered to give me a ride. However, thirty minutes before the event, they texted me and said there was a change in plans and that they were not going. By now, you can probably guess the plot twist. I wasn't really surprised when I saw pictures of them at the event on facebook. This continued onward through other events as well, before I just decided to take a hint and leave. They never sought to contact me afterwards. This, as well as outside events, caused me to relapse into my dysthymia. I stepped away from magic for about a month or two.
As I read through this article, I couldn't help but remember a friend I lost at some point through this game. I can't say if it was a result of this game or their negligence, but I do remember the fact that they never took it well when they lost a game. They're still here and there in the magic community, but I don't really hear from them anymore. They shut me out.
All this doom and gloom aside, I've found an accommodating playgroup that accepts me due my competitive nature. I believe I have made strong friendships with these people. The philosophy that we've grown to accept it we play however we choose to, but we respect each others' play-styles and goals. I am still wary of what I say to people.
All of this to say, I really appreciate this article; I felt an immediate connection and strong sympathy to topic. My hope is that people will grow to accept one and other. I want minorities in this game (and outside this game) to feel accepted. I do not wish for anyone to have that feeling of exclusion. Magic should be an all-encompassing community that accepts its players for who they are, how they play, and what they believe.
March 30, 2014 11:24 a.m.
If I may make a somewhat interesting observation, not meant as a personal attack. The vast majority of magic players are around 16-25. Around this age group people usually have shorter tempers and worse social skills. I could link to papers about brain biology, but I'm sure you guys don't care. An interesting thought is that a fair few people physically can't be more civil than they are - because biologically they are 'programmed' to be aggressive and dominant. This is a common response, and could explain some problems.
Again, not a personal attack on anyone but a point of observation, in case anyone is interested.
April 1, 2014 9:32 a.m.
ChiefBell: Haha I can always count on you to bring to the table a legitimate devil's advocate discussion. Well, if such is the case then I'm sure there are some people who cannot help being angry. This is clearly true. I think we've all witnessed someone in our family, as a friend or otherwise that has anger issues. And i'ts important to recognize these people and do your best to not make the situation worse. While one may justify their behavior by saying "this shouldn't make him upset", it's worth noting that using that sort of argument rarely, if ever, helps the situation.
Now that being said, I think you can agree that this is not the case for all or (probably) a majority of the situations we all experience. I think it stems more-so from the anonymity associated with an online world. And I think that sometimes people can so used to having the mindsets and attitudes they have online that is transfers into the face-to-face interactions we have at an FNM or Tournament.
Regardless, I do understand this sort of problem will never be fully eradicated. It's simply human nature to get upset over things and to be aggressive sometimes. I just hope that those of us who are more considerate can be the balance to this and allow for more people to feel accepted into this community. Remember, an aggressive environment attracts aggressive people -- not pacifistic ones.
April 1, 2014 3:05 p.m.
Precisely. Don't meet aggression with aggression or escalation will ensue.
April 1, 2014 3:24 p.m.
We could of course try and solve it like the bonobos...
April 2, 2014 4:16 a.m.
Well put sir, one person's freedom ends where another starts.This is why people should be more mindful of where their behavior takes them, demanding absolute freedom of movement in a world packed with individuals is just as unrealistic as staying put in one place with a shotgun and enjoying your game that way.
MrWorldwide says... #1
This is GREAT article man, i agree in 100%. While at FMNs in mine LGS even "Spike" people are friendly to newcomers, but some people on Cockatrice are kicking because someone countered their spell. I am with you.
February 10, 2014 7:25 a.m.