xzzane, your article is up!

Good read. I emailed you about my one concern Friday and added a little bit to clarify.

ChiefBell, will you link this in the Modern Primer?

Wooh, great job man!! Congratz on finally finishing this!!

Thanks! Glad to have finally finished it haha.

I do have a question though: if you throw in the soul sisters, would it still be considered tokens because of the presence of black and, well, tokens? And why don't you usually do that?

Lifelink isn't as important as other things this deck needs to be doing. Auriok Champion is fantastic because of protection and it just helps the match up in general. It's advised against something like Soul's Attendant though because your turn one play should be something like Inquisition of Kozilek. The turn two play is a little more flexible, so auriok fits right in. But you don't want to add too many life gaining cards because then you would have to take away from other key parts like hand disruption or token cards.

Lifegain not lifelink

There is a mistake in the section about Deck Weaknesses.

Final sentence.

"from against"...Well I'm not winning any grammar prizes anytime soon.

Fixed!

Whoa, schweet! This went more in-depth than I could go with any primer.

I do think that Twin matchups would be a little hard for you, though. Even with extensive hand disruption, they still have up to 4 different ways to get the combo. I just feel like they can go off pretty fast. And since that fact is becoming a very game-changing one in Modern, many people are turning to Illness in the Ranks and Rakdos Charm to help against Twin - cards that can also ruin your deck. You're gonna wanna use enchantment hate a lot in the sideboard, for that reason.

It's really more of a 50/50 thing. I put some serious thought into changing it, but I've had good luck in the past with all my twin games I've played, so I kept it like that. It's very heavily dependent on hand disruption though, which I made sure to point out I hope. And yeah, enchantment removal can be very useful.

Well damn. I just realized that the HTML made this look different than on the deck page that I based it. Anytime I had an asterik on my deck page, nothing happened, but in this primer it made things go italicized. :/

I feel the sideboard should include something else. It feels like you're saying I have to have those cards in my sideboard, when rather you should include potential cards to run in your sideboard to counter that particular deck. E.G. I would sideboard in Rest in Peace against Abzan, because it can shut down a number of their cards.

Also, I personally think running 4 four drops is the way to go. I agree with not running Hero of Bladehold, because unlike the planeswalker suite B/W tokens has access to, it does not do anything the first turn you drop it. Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Sorin, Solemn Visitor, and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad are all solid includes here. I really don't know why you're against Lord of Innistrad, he works if you don't have the best board presence, because he can create LIFELINK blockers, turn after turn. He's also great if you're ahead, because his emblem NEVER goes away, and he can then make more tokens and MORE emblems. Solemn Visitor works backwards, being stronger to close out the game, but doing little if you don't have a board presence, seeing as he has to -2 to make tokens. I personally run 2 Elspeth, because she helps with + without board presence, and then a 1/1 split between the Sorins, allowing me that variety of when I'm winning, and when I'm not.

Rest in Peace should never be sided in against abzan. Yes, it helps against Tasigur and goyf. But you would much rather side in something like Mirran Crusader. And I stated much of what you said in the primer. It's not that I don't like Lord of Innistrad, Knight-errant is just better for a non blossom list.

Never sideboard Rest in Peace? It neutralizes for the most part, half of their Lingering Souls, which means your Spectral Procession have less competition. It makes what makes Tasigur good, bad. It shuts down Scavenging Ooze, it shuts down Tarmogoyf, sure Abzan isn't dredge, but Rest in Peace does a lot against them.

Never sideboard rest in peace against abzan.

Why Elspeth, Knight-Errant over Elspeth, Sun's Champion? Is the two mana that critical?

Honest question from a noob.

Yes the Two mana is incredibly important.

The same thing makes small Elspeth a much better card.

Also the ability to give something +3/+3 is super good.

Rest in Peace only helps against a few of Abzan's creatures. It also completely takes away our own ability to make tokens from flashbacking Lingering Souls. Sideboard cards in modern need to do a lot more than just hinder your opponent slightly.

Oh, I know! Underworld Cerberus is the perfect solution!

.

.

Please don't listen to me. Please.

On the Elspeth vs. Sorin debate: personally, I think Sorin is more of a kick in the pants then Elspeth. Even though Elspeth makes more tokens, Sorin helps your current tokens have more impact. Lifegain somewhat matters in the mirror match, too. His 2/2 is mediocre at best, however, and his Ult will almost never be useful. On the other hand, all of Elspeth's abilities are useful with your tokens.

The thing with Elspeth vs Sorin is that a lot of it has to do with how it's a lot harder to deal with Elspeth. Sorin comes into danger of dying when he creates his emblem, while Elspeth just keeps growing stronger. Also, Elspeth often helps put something like a soldier token into the air. There will often be circumstances where your soldiers are staring at a gooyf or a tasigur, so you can only swing with your spirits. Elspeth allows that token to deal damage as well. With Sorin they would have +1/0, but they still wouldn't be able to attack freely.

can you take a look at my token deck. I made a budget version of b/w tokens before I saw this primer. Most of my deck follows the primer, except for the hand disruption portions.

Another thing with Sorin's ability, however, is that it lasts until your next turn. This is important, because you can chump-block with tokens and still gain life off Sorin. I do see your point with Elspeth, though. Having flying is super useful.

Haha I know it lasts until the next turn. But solemn visitor is heavily dependent on a solid board presence, which you can't always count on.

xzzane Great to see your article. You helped my token deck even before this article was posted.
Makes me want to play tokens more. Cheers mate.

Glad you liked it! And I hope you continue to enjoy playing tokens.

Great primer, explains the deck very clearly very clearly. Just a few random questions. First off what are your thoughts on lili? She seems at least a good sideboard card against Control decks. Secondly i'd like to argue a bit about monastery mentor. As a turn 3 play it is indeed terrible except in some match ups. But the ability to completly take over a game is similar to hero in that regard, with more defensive capabilities. For me it is a turn 4/5 play where you can guarantee yourself value from him via 1cmc spells. Contrary to hero also he helps stabilizing more by not needing to attack. He is certainly not a 4 of but as a 1 or 2 of he can certainly do work. What do think also of myth realised? Seems like a less risky option with a similar role.

diggin the token love. i run tokens at my LGS and consistently place 2nd or 3rd. i've had problems with bogles so i added Cruel Edict to my sideboard and trying it out tonight

Zealous Persecution works really well against the boggles deck in my meta. If its well timed, you can get them to waste some of the aura spells they have in their hand, and still kill the creature. You just have to keep mana open, which can be somewhat difficult.

Great read, i have only one concern - you mentioned that GW Hatebears as bad matchup. Really? It was always easy win for me, just dirupt thalia or have removal for her, other creature doesn't do too much to hurt us and we are faster. I always saw people telling that Hatebears are easy matchup for us and Hatebears doesn't like playing with us. Burn isn't also that bad matchup, but it depends of tokens build. I have mainboard 2 Auriok Champions (+2 sideboard), 3 Sorin SV (i am not playing blossom build), 1 Vault of Archangel so i am consistently winning with burn, even game one. For me 8rack was always hard matchup but maybe i was playing bad. Anyway very good primer, i am glad you did it because you are my BW Tokens mentor for a long time, even when i disagree with you sometimes.

Nice primer - I agree with most of what's been said here. I do have a few comments, though:

1. I would like to hear your opinion on Gather the Townsfolk. I've been using that alongside Raise the Alarm as a T2 token producer to good effect. It's essentially a Raise the Alarm that has some sneaky-good late-game topdeck potential.

2. I would also like to add Murderous Cut to the list of useful removal effects. Token producers are mostly instants or sorceries, which results in a full graveyard and in turn lets you cast this spell (which is conditionless removal) for cheap.

inquisitorgotoh, Lili is a bit tricky. The 3 cmc spot is really important in tokens. But I would agree it's potentially good for certain sideboard situations. And if you play mentor turn 4, you dont get any token able to attack until turn 5 (and that's even if you played an inquisition or a path). It's a bad investment, with too little reward at the final stages of the game. Hero is better at that point despite having to attack because typically she only needs to attack once to end the game. And Myth Realized is just not good for tokens. Do not add it. And I'm glad you have had good luck against hatebears at least, Adams! In general though, it's a rough matchup. They mainboard a lot of cards that can make things really difficult for tokens. And burn is one of token's worst matchups actually, even with Auriok Champion. And it's good to disagree sometimes haha. I'm not infallible, everyone should think for themselves with their own decks. It's how you grow as a player. rothgar13, my failure to include Gather the Townsfolk is a major blunder on my part. It can be good as a one of, but I highly recommend against any more than that. You can only have so many 2 drops, and Raise the Alarm is the more consistent option. Murderous Cut might be good as a 1 of, but once you empty your grave to cast it, it becomes much harder to play, as we don't run any cantrips or anything similar to fill the grave really fast. Dismember is more reliable in the long run, which is why I prefer it. I will be adding Gather the Townsfolk and Murderous Cut to my personal deck primer, so thank you for pointing those out to me.

Dismember can be cast t1 if you need it. It's gonna hurt but the option is there. No such option exists for murderous cut. Dismember wins out in my eyes.

Kind of a flawed argument there, ChiefBell. The type of creatures that a token deck would want to remove on T1 are played by aggro decks, and paying 4 life to remove a creature when playing against aggro is curious at best and outright counterproductive at worst.

If your point is that Dismember's non-mana payment mechanism is a bit more flexible than that of Murderous Cut because it comes with a lesser base cost and doesn't necessarily require colored mana, you would have a better point to make. But I don't advocate for Dismember's outright replacement, just that Murderous Cut also be considered.

I like Cut in this deck, actually. None of your cards have any graveyard synergy other than Souls, so delving is really easy. Having plenty of answers to a 5/6 Goyf is nice.

Well done. Aesthetically, I feel like there are a lot of boxes and not enough toys. That's really my only qualm.

rothgar13 - it can be cast for one mana, when you need it to cost 1 mana almost every time. Cut can't. That's it.

Also, it's not like you have to play four Paths either. I'm not convinced it's even correct to do so. You've got access to a lot of stuff. Victim of Night seems worth a shot. If you're playing six removal spells, though, I'd probably do something like 3 Path, 1 Dismember, 1 Murderous Cut, 1 Slaughter Pact just for the versatility. Not sure about curve considerations, but Souls --> Pact with a mana leftover to do something else seems strong.

Cool primer, bro.

Epochalyptik, thanks, I designed it myself :p Lol JK I had to ask you like 1,000,000 questions.

This is a solid overall breakdown of tokens. However, I disagree with your evaluation of Tidehollow Sculler being strictly superior to Castigate. Currently my buddy and I are working on the deck and we've determined a full discard package is needed to beat combo, so we are currently running the full 8 Thoughtsieze/Inquisition of Kozilek in addition to 2 Castigate, as well as 3 Duress and 4 Pack Rat in the sideboard. Often we found we would simply rather cast another discard spell on turn 2, so the 2 mana cost didn't bother us that much, and having our disruption killed to get back their combo piece, when they have no spot removal targets otherwise, was not where we wanted to be. In our opinion, Tidehollow Sculler is best in deadguy variants where there are other creatures that need to die.

To complement this aggressive loss of life we'll be taking from untapped lands, Bitterblossom, and Thoughtseize, and to help ensure we'll land a turn 3 army, we are again going against your suggestion by running 2 maindeck Timely Reinforcements and 2 more in the board. we've never had a problem taking more damage than our opponent, and since the removal of Raise the Alarm we'll usually have less creature than our opponent too. It's been working quite nicely so far, and were working on our specific removal package. I felt the need to report our findings was all, this primer was overall highly informative for introduction.

I agree with the Castigate over Tidehollow Sculler.

Same reason Magus of the Moon is worse than Blood Moon.

As for the discard package, That is a metagame call, Refining the deck to suite a specific meta is up to an individual and is very hard to address in a primer.

I agree, I neglected to mention that our meta contains 4 scapeshift decks out of 25 modern players, so there's definitely that to consider.

The main reason why Tidehollow is better is that it isn't a completely bad topdeck. If you look at every token deck that has top8ed, all but 2 of them have used tidehollow over castigate. And Timely Reinforcements can be good in a more specified decklist like the sound of how you made yours, but a deck using the general 4 raise, spectral, and lingering shouldn't add it, because more often than not we will have more tokens. And the turn 3 play should be for stabilizing, where we need to develop a solid board presence. It sounds like you have developed your deck differently where reinforcements has more of a chance of landing creatures on turn 3, so if that works then go for it. Thank you for your feedback! I welcome any opposing viewpoints, and if you have more to contribute, please do share.

Informative, thanks.

This primer makes me want to overhaul the Modern Event Deck that I got last year, so good job! Now if I can only get my hands on a Fetid Heath....

I ran a deck like this, another great token producer is Conqueror's Pledge. It produces 6 tokens for 5 mana. Its a great game ender and can be one heck of a spell if you reach the 11 mana threshold.

For those of us on a budget: where options such as,

Bitterblossom

Any of those Planeswalkers and possibly Thoughtseize

Even Path to Exile are not affordable.

Turn One Options:

4x Inquisition of Kozilek

2x Duress

2x/3x Doomed Traveler

2x/3x Funeral Charm

Turn Two:

4x Raise the Alarm

4x Intangible Virtue

2/3x Castigate

1x/2x Tidehollow Sculler

3x Orzhov Charm

1/2x Gather the Townsfolk

Turn Three:

4x Lingering Souls

4x Spectral Procession

Turn Four:

............... ????????? Help

xzzane While I agree with everything else you've said here, I don't think you should be so quick to dismiss the potential of Myth Realized. I wouldn't say that it's a perfect card, since it doesn't benefit from Intangible virtue, but if you drop it in turn 1 it almost always becomes a threat that must be responded to by turn 4. The low number of creature spells (2-6) in a BW Token deck works wonderfully with Myth Realized, adding another counter to it with almost every spell cast.

The argument that this takes away your ability to turn 1 TS/Inquisition is very valid however, and will cripple you in some matchups. However, in my limited experience with the card in my deck against decks such as Splinter Twin, Merfolk, Burn, RDW, and Abzan, it has performed reasonably well, as good or better in some cases than how my deck has usually fared.

That said, you probably have more experience with BW tokens than I do, and MTG in general, so my opinion might not mean so much. I might see merit in the card where there is none, but I believe that Myth Realized still has potential in BW token decks.

failfodder The real question when considering Myth Realized is why are you going to play it over Raise the Alarm? Myth is not good in a lot of matchups. It's shockingly bad against Abzan, does nothing against Twin, and any deck with a couple Path to Exile can completely wreck your game plan. It is also one of the worst topdecks possible; it does absolutely nothing, especially compared to an Elspeth, or a Lingering Souls.

Raise the Alarm, on the other hand, is far more resilient. You get 2 tokens at instant speed, and a Lightning Bolt or Path can only target 1 creature. I would much rather just play out my tokens and win with 1/1s than with a slow 6/6 which is sitting around waiting to be removed.

BrandonJamesCAC I don't know if you picked up any Sorin vs. Tybalt Duel decks, but if you did, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is nice, also, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad + Sorin, Solemn Visitor aren't terribly expensive in themselves, but I would not recommend running too many of them. If you're really looking for 4 drops, Leyline of the Meek fills a unique role, but is not the greatest for most B/W token decks.

Also what about running Hour of Reckoning. It's not good against a mirror match, but a board wipe that specifically leaves out tokens? And it has convoke, so the full price will never really be paid.

It's not terrible, but it's curve is way too high for most matches. If you're convoking out your creatures, you're missing out on an attack. I could see it perhaps used against Abzan, leaving them with whatever Lingering Souls they had come up with.

With Intangible Virtue, you can convoke after the attack.

Surprised nobody has mentioned how good Batwing Brume is against splintertwin out of the sideboard for a BW tokens deck.

Its also just really good against most aggressive decks, and can outright win you races even against the most overwhelming odds.

I usually try to slot in Batwing Brume for infect, although it has excellent applications in other matchups.

Sorry, I was busy all day. End of the year=Major stress. failfodder, JexInfinite answered why Myth Realized isn't that good. Don't add Leyline of the Meek; it's an atrocious card. I also recommend against Hour of Reckoning, as there are better cards out there to choose from. You can only play it if you have a solid board presence, and if you have a solid board presence you should be either winning or playing a further win condition. And I did mention Batwing Brume, did I not?

Leyline of the Meek isn't a Tier 1 option, but it's fun and semi-competitive. You may have mentioned Batwing Brume, I was just responding to the above comment.

Leyline of the Meek should never be played in anything remotely competitive. Casually, fine. But semi-competitive? No. And ok.

I've gotten first at my LGS running 4x Leyline of the Meek. Semi-Competitive it is, not something you want to run at any sort of big event, but it gets the job done.

Just because you happened to win with it means nothing. It still should never be used. There are so many better options out there.

For a semi-competitive deck though..... Semi-competitive means you're trying to compete, but don't necessarily have all the resources necessary to construct the best version of the deck. Leyline of the Meek has a unique effect that is game changing, and can help you win when you are playing at a semi-competitive location.

There is no reason to be playing Leyline of the Meek. None. Extra Honor of the Pures would be better. It is outclassed by so many cards it should never be used. You may have gotten lucky, so kudos to you. But an isolated incident does not change the fact that it is a terrible card.

But semi-competitive, jesus, do I have to spell it out for you? What if I can trade for Leyline of the Meek, but can't find Honor of the Pure anywhere? Until I can find a better card, I will run the subpar card. Like lists running Duress mainbaord over Inquisition of Kozilek or Thoughtseize.

We are at odds with the term "semi-competitive". Leyline is not semi competitive. It is a terrible card and should not be used in semi competitive. Duress is semi competitive. Budget lists can run duress. Want to know how much the advertised cost of Honor of the Pure is? 1.28. Want to know what Leyline of the Meek is? 1.45. There is no reason to use leyline.

kameenook Strictly speaking, Leyline of the Meek is worse. Much worse. There is no guarantee you will start with it in hand, and if you don't then you're in trouble with you tokens deck. But I must defer to xzzane on this one since while I am an okay Modern player, I specialize in Control decks. But I know enough about Magic to realize that you are objectively wrong.

JexInfinite Well laid out response, thanks man.

xzzane You missed the part where you might not have access to Honor of the Pure, people are limited by what cards they can get, so even if they can find budget friendly options, the only card they might be able to find is Leyline of the Meek, and therefore run it over Honor of the Pure, because you have to build a deck with what you have.

I don't think you realize just how bad of a card Leyline of the Meek is. Even if they have limited access to cards, almost any other card would be preferable to leyline. Let's say you have a super budgeted deck. You can't afford Auriok Champion so you put in Soul Warden (Which I actually recommend against, but that's besides the point). You're playing against Splinter Twin and he combos off. But because of Soul Warden you're safe! Except...Leyline of the Meek doesn't just say YOUR tokens. It gives ALL creature tokens +1/1. So that 1 power exarch just became powerful enough to kill you, even with your Soul Warden out. Against the mirror match it is atrocious. It is a bad card no matter what.

What if you're playing against a deck not running ANY tokens, which is bound to happen throughout the course of the day. You don't draw Intangible Virtue (if you are indeed running it), and curve out all your tokens perfectly, having dropped a leyline on T1. Now the beats come in for real, all for you having made no mana investment. Hypothetically, you curve a second one after playing Spectral Procession, now the beats are really coming. NO, the card is not in my lists anymore, because I have obtained BETTER cards, but until I had those BETTER cards, I ran Leyline of the Meek. You have to try things that people haven't thought of before, otherwise you're just being like everyone else.

What do you think of Suture Priest as a replacement for Soul Warden. It's slower but splinter twin can't combo off until it gets removed, so it's somewhat of a deterrent as well.

You assume too much. I have tried many things with bw tokens. For a fad I thought Launch the Fleet was amazing. I did not netdeck b/w tokens; I found out how everything worked myself. It is because of the fact that I discovered everything myself that I often instinctively know whether or not a card will be good for b/w tokens. Leyline of the Meek should never be used in a bw token deck. There are so many better options, even for a super budget player. And there are better options to play than Suture Priest as well.

Never is a strong word, you're implying that inherently by playing B/W tokens, Leyline of the Meek does not fit with the strategy, which is incorrect. Tokens is one of the few decks it CAN fit into, even if it isn't the BEST option. Not all B/W token lists have to be cookie cutter, and they don't all have to consistently be winning matches.Leyline of the Meek has its place, it's just very near to the BOTTOM of the options for B/W tokens lists.

You are technically correct. Bit it's so far at the bottom that it shouldn't even be mentioned. Extra forms of removal would be better. Extra token producers would be better. Some LANDS would be better. There are so many cards that outclass it that it really isn't worth discussing.

Token producers and removal would be better, but you can't seriously argue that lands would be better. You should already be running an optimal number of lands in your list, Leyline of the Meek or not. Turning Leyline into lands will just alter your game strategy terribly. It's near the bottom, I've played it, it didn't always work, but when it did, it was worth it.

Ghost Quarter Tectonic Edge Windbrisk Heights Vault of the Archangel. These lands either produce no colorless Mana or come into play tapped. They also serve a purpose, and if run in additional to your normal lands, you can still have easy access to your turn 3 Spectral Procession.

AND THE SPARKS ARE FLYING HERE AT THE STADIUM IN THIS HEATED MATCH-UP BETWEEN XZZANE AND KAMEENOOK!!!

I can see you're enjoying yourself there, FAMOUSWATERMELON :p

Doesn't matter whether or not there are lands that outdo Leyline. What matters is that there are 60 cards better than it.

Nah, I just like to be a crappy commentator :)

Anyways, as to Leyline of the Meek, the only case where you should use it is when you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE TO PLAY. Like if you're making the deck from cards that you own, you don't want to buy any cards, and that's really the only option. But then don't expect it to be competitive.

GlistenerAgent part of the argument was that not everyone has access to better cards, let alone 60 better cards.

FAMOUSWATERMELON that's been the point this whole time, it's not going to be competitive, but SEMI-Competitive. If you have Leyline of the Meek, it is NOT the WORST card to put in your deck, it's just fairly bad. I build all my paper decks with cards I can get in my grip, and for a while, Leyline of the Meek was in my build, with good success. Now I have cards I deem BETTER, and it is gone.

Fair enough. Though, the same could be argued for all kinds of things. Army of the Damned is good when you're on a budget.

Army of the Damned is hella good in a Living Lore deck.

My argument this entire time has been over the term "semi-competitive". Can you use leyline if you have absolutely nothing else and solely have access to only the cards you own? Yes. Is it semi-competitive? No. Yes, I am aware you won using Leyline before you mention it again.

xzzane I will concede the point, I suppose we should give the discussion back to BrandonJamesCAC, he wanted to know what 4 drops to play, and Leyline isn't great, so Hero of Bladehold, Sorin, Solemn Visitor, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad can all be solid inclusions in their own regard.

To xzzane and everyone else, I apologize for the havoc I have wreaked on this forum, I hope you forgive me, and that we may move on.

I already commented on his page; I'll be helping him on his personal deck as soon as he responds with what kind of budget he has. And no problem.

"Havoc"?? No, this is entertainment at its finest :)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Haha, glad someone other than me enjoyed it.

My preferred mix of 4 drops is 2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor and 1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant. I don't prefer Hero of Bladehold because the walkers have the potential to win the game as soon as they come into play, while Hero takes at least a turn to get going.

I run 2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant and 1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor personally. And yeah, I feel the same about hero. She also gets removed super easily because people don't like using Path to Exile on a token so they save it. But I don't think he has the money to buy planeswalkers if we're still talking about BrandonJames.

True enough, and it should also be noted I'm running Bitterblossom, which I'm sure is also outside of his budget. Elspeth, Knight-Errant works better when she can jump bodies more often, so she'll kill them faster in a deck running Raise the Alarm over Bitterblossom.

Solemn Visitor is fantastic in a blossom build. And yeah.

I personally like running 4 cards in my 4 drop slot. I agree with running away from Hero, so a combination of Elspeth and Sorins it is.

In case you haven't seen what I did with the Modern Event Deck -

In Case You Can't Identify

forget whatever else I called it.

bendjohnson, do you want help with your deck? I don't understand what you're saying.

I really, really hope that Bitterblossom is reprinted as a rare in MM2.

This is a sweet article! What are you guys opinion on Brave the Elements thought? With all that preocupation against Pyroclasm and stuff like that.

I dabbled with splashing Red for Boros Charm for that purpose. I'd say its more effective than Brave the elements due to its versatility. The red splash is easy, taking out a plains or two for a sacred foundry.

Burrenton Forge-Tender is my preference since it can also randomly block and has to be path'd or something.

Burrenton Forge-Tender>Brave the Elements. And splashing red isn't worth it.

Maybe a little help on my version of deck - Is Executioner's Swing not a great card for Modern? I kinda want to use it.

Other than that, I hope I get more chances to use Unmake as a decent removal spell.

Mostly was wanting to show a twist to how I would play with different cards. Making a version all my own.

Exectutioner's swing is better off just being Dismember pretty much any time.

Dismember is far better than Executioner's Swing. Unmake is pretty bad; don't run that. Are you using these choices as budget decisions?

somewhat.. I mostly just trade for cards nowadays, so next time I get some super expensive card from a pack..

Could spend some money on my version but rarely have much to spend.

I want this more my own style of build from the pre-con as much trade went toward it. Traded a few singles away as well. Mostly for other builds.

Even though Dismember is a dollar card, if you're really strapped for cash, Grasp of Darkness is okay. Its rather mediocre in modern, but -4/-4 kills a lot of things.

...except Taz, Rhino, and Goyf most of the time. Nothing much.

I actually traded a playset of dismember when it was worth something more, back in the day of it's standard-ness. Think it might have been worth about as much as all mythics should be worth - four dollars. But I was told, "Then nobody would invest in boosters". Or something along those lines. I could one day get back a playset of dismember, but I'm really more interested in my mono-White Modern build.

I thought B/W tokens would be fun to 'tinker' with build-wise. So I got the event deck.

Well thats why its the budget card to run and you should always play dismember. Obviously it doesn't kill those cards, it's sort of implied.

I'll get a playset if overstocked at a local store. Not saying I'll use a playset in the deck. Just don't like as much a one drop with a loss of life it is, though easy to 'bounce back' from four down.

Can't remember why I ever got rid of the singles of pre-con print. Perhaps because Black is my least favorite in Magic and one reason is the minus/minus done by it.

Though Executioner's Swing is A-OK by me since 'restriction' to damage having to be dealt by the target.

Serious discussion: Is Windbrisk Heights a good card, or a win-more card? I feel the problems this card has is severely overlooked, and warrants good discussion:

I'm currently running two of the card, the modern event deck runs the full four and I can't stand when my lands have to come into play tapped, two helps ensure you won't see the second copy. Not to mention the times it whiffs and finds only lands, or just lands and a turn 4 discard spell, or a removal spell with no targets from the opponent. But beyond that, if the effect was great enough it's definitely worth the cost: free cards right?

The earliest Windbrisk Heights can be activated, under the best case scenario, is turn 4, and only if you have exactly turn 3 Spectral Procession or a turn 2 and turn 3 token producer. Then you have to spend 2 mana on the card's effect, preventing most meaningful additional plays that turn outside of some spot removal spells or Intangible Virtue. Assuming they all live until turn 4, which means they haven't been wrathed, all three of them need to attack, which means you haven't been fogged by Cryptic Command or a smart player hasn't used their otherwise useless spot removal to target a token.

After that happens, you play the card: let's say it's a token producer or a planeswalker. The tokens are good, they are essentially the best equivalent of drawing another card. If it's a walker, then we can't activate it before combat, so we essentially miss a turn with the walker that we wouldn't have when it's in our hand, so we take an additional tempo lost when factoring tapped Windbrisk Heights into account.

I am seriously considering cutting what is considered an archetype staple due to this reasoning. Am I wrong for thinking this way? Can anyone argue that the benefits of Heights outweighs the drawbacks?

Super tired right now, so I won't be able to continue this discussion for long, but I completely understand where you're coming from Tristan. I had similar thoughts about a year ago. However, it provides numerous benefits that you cannot overlook. The facedown card can have a psychological aspect to your opponent-What's underneath that card? Should I block? Use removal on his tokens before he can attack with 3, even if he runs Hero of Bladehold? Also, this card is actually a pretty damn good topdeck later in the game, unlike most lands. It allows you to search for whatever card you need at that particular moment. I run 3 in my personal token deck. I found 4 to be too much, and anything less than 3 I didn't really see the full benefit of it. Yes, it has its flaws. But I believe it's still well worth running despite that.

What's the best plan to have for UR Storm? Usually I'll run Leyline of Sanctity, and some extra hand hate instead of removal. I've been noticing that they can just keep drawing through it before securing the kill (usually they'll put in some sideboard hate against Leyline).

Something I've been trying is using Stain the Mind, naming Grapeshot. It's worked when I had an opening Leyline and early token producer like Raise the Alarm.

Also have run Rule of Law, doesn't always seem dependable enough.

They will usually board in Empty the Warrens anticipating your Leyline of Sanctity, despite your token producers. Also they will be boarding Echoing Truth anyway to kill of your tokens, but basically any given storm player is prepared for any white opponent to slam a hate permanent and call it a day.

What storm CAN'T handle however is losing their critical mass of spells needed to go off to a barrage of discard spells. Duress has many applications in different matchups, between that and your discard in the main is devastating to them. Board out path, but keep in your black removal so you can kill Goblin Electromancer without giving them a land.

Also I currently run Disenchant in the board, that's also great at killing Pyromancer's Ascension.

Jernyman I've only faced off against one storm deck in my local meta, so I'm far from being an expert, but there's a few options I've found that work for me while also being good sideboard cards for other matchups.

Duress will slow down their game for sure and affect most if not all of the nonland cards they'll typically run, and Leyline of Sanctity is good as pointed out unless they bring in enchantment removal or Empty the Warrens, but my favourite go to is to bring in 2x Rest in Peace. It's sometimes hard to find the right time to play it against very smart opponents, but if your opponent taps out at any point with 1 or more Past in Flames in their graveyard (among a pile of other spells) it's basically game over for them.

It's not the most satisfying of victories, but when your options are to either play hate cards or play at a disadvantage, I'm not going to make myself everybody else's punching bag.

First off, I'm loving all the discussion here, so thanks for that. TristanTaylorsVoice, did you still want to discuss windbrisk further? And something to keep in mind is that Zealous Persecution is fantastic against Empty the Warrens.

Yeah, I think I'm gonna try one copy of Windbrisk Heights for a while. If I have a hand with it, great, and if I don't I won't need to worry about drawing it.

Rest in Peace is also effective against storm, however I recommend a combination of overlapping hate rather than relying on simply slamming a hate card.

I don't run into storm that often, so I don't have Rule of Law in my sideboard, but I do run leylines and I used to run Rest in Peace. I also keep Zealous Persecution in for the Empty the Warrens.

I hadn't given much thought to Zealous Persecution as a defence for Empty the Warrens, but now that you point that out I love it. Makes me happy that I've already got two in the mainboard for when I see UR storm at FNM.

Honestly, this whole article and discussion has just taught me so much more about the one deck I thought I knew how to play. Thanks so much for bringing it all together xzzane.

You're welcome! I was glad to put it together. B/W tokens is my most cherished archetype, and I'm glad to be able to discuss it with the community like this.

I am a HUGE fan of running Kor Firewalker sideboard against burn. Also, I most recently noticed, that it destroys Grapeshot storm.

Kor Firewalker is pretty amazing.

Kor Firewalker is so strong that I used to board out Living End and cascade into 3 of those, and just play a bad midrange deck. Definitely a powerful option.

Have you thought about suggesting Go for the Throat as removal instead of doom blade? It hits most things in modern ...

Affinity is a thing. I should add it to removal though and explain that.

In Throat's defence, Rhino and Taz are bigger things.

Yeah, but Dismember hits almost all of the things in modern, so I recommend it the most.

Fair enough. Maybe side Go for the Throat against burn? Or is that too full already.

We already have Path to Exile. Siding in something like Kor Firewalker or Timely Reinforcements would be better.

Doom Blade and Go for the Throat are 2 mana removal spells with valid weaknesses; I prefer 1 mana removal spells with valid weaknesses. Path to Exile gives them a land and is a terrible turn 1 play,but ultimately the most flexible. Dismember cant hit titans,tron fatties or reanimatiom targets, but is flexible at all points in the curve. Slaughter Pact is Doom Blade you can tap out for but will essentially skip your next turn.

Tldr 1 mana conditional removal > 2 mana conditional removal

Great guide!

See my BW token deck here: BW Tokens. (Sideboard listed is somewhat experimental.)

It's my only real modern deck and I've been playing it for years through a variety of variations.

Obviously I'm in the camp of liking Murderous Cut as kill spells five and six, though I sometimes play a one cut, one dismember split.

I'm also in the camp of preferring Sorin, Solemn Visitor over Elspeth, Knight-Errant main deck. This mostly has to do with burn and racing situations where the lifegain is super important. When I play Elspeth I frequently find I can't extend the game enough because of life total even if I have an otherwise winning board state. On the other hand I've won matches vs. stuff like Goblin Charbelcher combo because Sorin gained me enough life to get out of range. I've also found his emblem to be strong against decks that rely on creatures.

My take on a few matchups is different.

I think burn is rough pre-board (Auriok Champion or bust), but often great post board. Because the post-board matchup is so good, I think my match win % is at least 60% vs. burn. But I very frequently lose game one.

I also think infect is a 50/50 matchup. Even with discard it can still win out of nowhere, and we can't always successfully interact with it. If you get stuck with one color of tokens Apostle's Blessing can kill you out of nowhere, same thing if they top deck a Blighted Agent after you've used your disruption.

Lastly, twin matchups depend on a lot on the specific twin deck. I almost autolose to UWR twin when they have Leyline of Sanctity in the board to turn off disruption. UR Twin is definitely a better matchup, but it's by no means good, as the longer the game goes without you closing it, the more able they are to protect their combo, and it's fairly easy for them to bounce any hate or remand your removal once it's late game. And at the same time it's hard to close the game quickly without leaving an opening for their combo.

Lastly, I would add that (at least without graveyard hate in SB) the combo builds of Collected Company Abzan decks are a terrible matchup. They have too much redundancy for Thoughtseize to be effective at stopping their combo potential and can frequently combo on turns three to five, well before we can win. Often times we remove a combo piece only for them to immediately find a replacement with Collected Company and essentially lose on the spot.

deathtouch_roadrunner, all good points. I still think that the post matchup can be very rough though because of things like Destructive Revelry that they side in, and use cards like Skullcrack to take out creatures like Kor Firewalker or Auriok Champion. And you're right, infect can win out of nowhere. But overall it's a better matchup than it is not, so that's why I put it as a good matchup. And I rate twin as a good combo because Auriok Champion serves as a pseudo side option game one, and games 2 you have access to Torpor Orb and additional removal. Any combo deck is bound to be tricky though. And I view Collected Company Abzan as an entirely seperate deck from"traditional" Abzan, which makes use of things like Tarmogoyf, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, and Siege Rhino. I'll add that as its own seperate matchup later. This is a little more up to date than this primer as well, in case your interested.

I wanted to put together a similar deck but splashing green for ramp and few extra token generators, I was thinking of adding birds for turn one, gruuk, pack rat and maybe abzan ascendancy as each copy will trigger the ascendancy, any help about making this better would be really appreciated

Well what you're talking about wouldn't be very competitive, but it could be fun for casual play. Do you have a list?

I did, but am changing it for a Red/White/Black as a competitive deck, and would ike to have some pointers and tips,

CreaturesPack Rat x4 Young Pyromancer X4Goblin Rabblemaster X4

Instance Path to Exile X4Raise the Alarm X3Spectral Possession X3Thoughtseize X3Lingering Souls X3

Planeswalker Elspeth, Knight-Errant X3Purphoros, God of the Forge X2Bitterblossom X4 Intangible Virtue X1

and the lands I'm still searching for, i would like to make this into a competitive deck and I would really appreciate the help

First of all: Great Primer xzzane, very intersting to read!

Want to add a few thoughts concerning the decks weakness: Card draws and bad draws. While playing tokens I often feel we're sometimes a bit slow and should increase our options via drawing some extra-cards or minimize the option of bad draws with a bit of sry.

I'd really love to add some draw opportunities to the deck and I'd like to put the following options to discussion:

1.) Altar's Reap could be an option in a deck with a mass of tokens, especially in combination with Elspeth, Knight-Errant. Additionally, you can use it when your opponent uses removal on a token and draw two cards. You don't lose a card, thus isn't this a viable option?

2.) Sign in Blood: It's worse than Altar's Reap because it costs BB. However, it provides synergy with a lot of lifegain from Auriok, Sorin and Vault.

3.) Wall of Omens: A "free" card that provides some defense against burn and an early Tarmogoyf.

4.) Temple of Silence vs. Windbrisk Heights: In my opinion Windbrisk Heights often is too situational. You sometimes draw cards that aren't really useful at that specific moment and the condition of three attacking creatures slows it down. What about Temple of Silence which allows you to scry 1?

You have to play Windbrisk Heights. It's too good.

I wouldn't be totally against Night's Whisper.

jason1102, sorry for not getting back to you sooner, I never noticed you responded. There are a few problems with the deck you're trying to make. First off it's focused on creatures, which takes away a key strength of tokens, which is its resilience against spot removal. Pyromancer isn't that great in tokens because we don't run cantrips to best abuse him. Pack rat and goblin rabble master both take up the 3 cmc position, which should always be either spectral procession or lingering souls. You also run far too many 4 drops.

AndYpsilon, I'm glad you liked it! I would not recommend altar's reap. Board presence is very important, and you don't want to have to lose it in order to potentially gain it back. You can't count on responding to removal either, as you would have to have 2 Mana available. As opposed to Sign in Blood Night's Whisper would be better, as glistener pointed out. If you were to add this though, what would you take out? Tokens is pretty strict on its key token spells and hand disruption. Wall of omens shouldn't be added. For a 2 drop Auriok Champion just does so much more. As for lands coming into play tapped, only windbrisk is worth it. Scry one is not that valuable to a non control deck, and we need to make sure we have access to 3 white Mana turn 3 for spectral. Windbrisk is amazing since it allows you to either push ahead or gain back board presence.

xzzane, I'm testing a lot atm and sometimes the deck lacks threats. Opponents use removal for your tokens, attack you with bigger creatures and so on. Thus, you need to drop threats like tokens or planeswalker constantly.

However, in mid- or late game you often find yourself running out of fuel. Drawing one card per turn while topdecking lands and hand disruption or hymns without tokens is really bad. Unfortunately I have situations like these quite often.

So I'd reduce hand disruption to 5 cards in the maindeck (have some more in your SB against combo). You want to have one in your starting hand but later on other cards are much more important. Because of redundancy in nearly all decks disruption also isn't a guarantee, so in my opnion this shouldn't block to many spots.I'll also drop one Zealous Persecution, another situational card.

Thus I have at least 2 spots for Night's Whisper which also offers a good synergy with Auriok Champion, Sorin, Solemn Visitor, Sorin, Solemn Visitor and Vault of the Archangel

Hmm maybe then instead I should switch red for blue, and add a Giest of Saint Traft , this and a couple of draw cards, or control cards, should boost the deck

jason1102,

If you want to go for the color blue, Drogskol Captain woud be better than Geist of Saint Traft. B/w would be the most competitive colors though.

AndYpsilon,

Glad to hear you're testing, it's great experience finding out what works and what helps out against other decks. And you never know, you might find something out that I, or other token users have missed. I would heavily advise against reducing hand disruption though. 6 is the lowest you should go. Hand disruption is the only reason why b/w tokens can be a viable deck in the meta to be frank. And I wouldn't necessarily say they have synergy, they just offset each other.

xzzane, really like this discussion. You might be right about the disruption. However, tested Wall of Omens against burn yesterday: It was awesome. You don't need disruption against them (I only used 4 duress and never drew one). Turn 1 Burrenton Forge-Tender into turn 2 Wall of Omens and bye-bye burn. The Walls refilled my hand while the burn players have only 1 or 2 cards after 3 or 4 turns. Have to test against what other decks it's useful. I guess against all creature based and vs. combo it's maybe as bad as Auriok Champion.

I'm enjoying this discussion as well. And disruption can actually help a lot against burn. Not Thoughtseize though. Inquisition can take out Eidolon, which is a massive pain. I think Auriok Champion makes a better turn 2 play against burn though. It can block guide and swiftspear, and it gains life to boot. Auriok mainboard also helps against twin, which is a really hard matchup without Auriok.

I see your points. However, this deck unfortunately has problems and doesn't provide top performances. Because it is lacking something like CA. It can easily run out of gas because you don't draw enough tokens constantly.

The best performance of this deck is with tokens, anthems and a planeswalker on top. 2-4 1/1's just aren't enough most of the time. You need the combo of the three to really be successful.

That's why we need library manipulation and or carddraw - otherwise this deck will stay middle-class forever.

My dream is for wizards to print a strictly version of spectral. Then we could play Dark Confidant. That would help tremendously with card draw.

Very informative primer, thanks a lot! :P

Thanks! I have a more updated primer here in case you're interested.

2015 B/W Token Primer Playtest

Modern xzzane

SCORE: 27 | 68 COMMENTS | 3442 VIEWS

Thanks for the great primer! I'd also appreciate your input on my tokens deck:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-02-15-mJN-bw-tokens/

Sure, I'll take a look at it now. And thanks!