TappedOut's Second Modern Moot
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ChiefBell
11 December 2015
2496 views
TappedOut’s Second Modern Moot
The Second Modern Moot
11 December 2015
2496 views
TappedOut’s Second Modern Moot
The Second Modern Moot
Modern moot is an article series about modern decks, written to appeal both to those who enjoy playing Magic, and those who enjoy talking about the game. A moot is a word from old or middle English that refers to a meeting or discussion between people about a particular topic, and that is what this article series aims to recreate. Consider these write-ups as casual discussions about decks in the Modern format.
In each article I will focus specifically on one single deck archetype and analyze how the core of the deck is constructed, whether any variations of the deck exist, how it plays, its strengths and weaknesses, and finally whether any similar decks exist.
Last time we explored the archetype Tooth and Nail, which utilises its namesake card to cheat huge creatures into play both consistently and quickly. If you would like to go back and read that article you can find ithere. For those of you who have been testing the deck over the last few weeks, I would love to hear any thoughts or interesting play-by-plays you may have!
The Deck For Today: Skred Red
For the second deck of the series I wanted to explore something that was more controlling, and felt very different to play than Tooth and Nail.
What Does It Do?
Skred Red is commonly referred to as the mono-red control deck. It utilises very efficient creature removal in Lightning Bolt, and Skred, along with sweepers such as Anger of the Gods in order to pave the way for strong win conditions. The deck is notable because in order to power Skred the manabase almost entirely consists of Snow-Covered Mountains. Due to the simplicity of the manabase it is common practice for this deck to include at least three copies of Blood Moon in the mainboard.
Skred Red has actually evolved in recent years into two different decks, and given that the deck is not "solved" (ie. there is no agreed upon, best list), there is a large amount of variety in the maindeck choices that you will commonly see. The two prevailing subtypes of Skred are "Big Skred" and what I will call "Traditional Skred". Big Skred aims to utilise ramp through Mind Stone and Koth of the Hammer
to play huge threats such as Wurmcoil Engine or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Traditional Skred includes threats that cost less mana such as Boros Reckoner or Stormbreath Dragon, and makes use of the Boros Reckoner + Skred
combo to reflect huge amounts of damage from the creature to the opponent.
Example Decklists
Spend some time getting the rough idea of the deck with these two lists before moving onto the next sections which discuss the specifics.
The Deck In Detail
Control
Skred wants to control the game, which means disrupting plays that the opposition makes. Red is a fantastic colour for this because it has access to multiple creature removal and mana denial cards that cost very little mana to cast. Both aid in this goal:
Note that the frequencies given above are not definitive. They are rough estimates indicating how many copies are usually seen, if the card is included at all.
There are two main goals Skred Red has with its suite of control cards. The first is to remove troublesome threats, which it does through the use of burn spells. The second is to restrict the opponent from casting cards at all, which it achieves with mana denial cards.
In regards to the first goal it should be abundantly clear that Skred preys particularly hard on weenies decks. Tokens, and Zoo, and to a lesser extent Affinity, Infect, and Merfolk can all be easy matchups, most of the time, due to the ability Skred has to remove most creatures for a mere 1 mana. Lightning Bolt and the decks namesake card, Skred, are most notable here. Furthermore, for just two or three mana, the deck can clear out whole swathes of small creatures with sweepers such as Anger of the Gods. This nets huge card advantage against creature-based aggro and leads to decisive wins.
However, the deck can struggle against creatures with toughness values that are particularly high, such as Tasigur, the Golden Fang or Siege Rhino. Skred goes some of the way to answering this with its ability to deal greater amounts of damage, but note that it will take 5 turns at a minimum to have the required number of Snow-Covered Mountains to do that kind of damage. Sideboard options do exist such as Rending Volley or Combust, but these are not applicable against every threat.
The second goal of the deck, mana denial, synergises nicely with the first because it is an effective way of addressing the drawbacks of burn spells. Burn spells cannot effectively remove creatures with a high toughness. Where do we typically find those creatures? Multi-coloured decks. By punishing the greedy manabases associated with the decks that typically play larger creatures, Skred Red has a natural way to combat them. A turn two Blood Moon can spell death against a variety of opponents, particularly when it is followed next turn by a robust win condition such as Koth of the Hammer. Some Skred Red decks increase the number of Blood Moons they have access to by also playing Magus of the Moon. Others opt for Molten Rain. These cards give Skred an elegant way to deal with Abzan, Jund, and Tron. Decks that would otherwise be impossible to deal with using tools like Lightning Bolt alone.
Card Advantage
No control deck can exist without card advantage. It is absolutely necessary to keep your hand stocked with the spells you need to disrupt the opponent. Skred is no different to any other control deck in this regard, though without access to the colour blue the card advantage engines are a little less efficient:
Skred can not play Serum Visions, Remand, Cryptic Command *list*, or even Sphinx's Revelation. Instead it opts for cards that present some kind of utility, and can also be used for card draw if necessary. Note that although I have included Abbot of Keral Keep and Outpost Siege as examples, I have not seen either in any decklists. Skred is an unsolved deck and there are therefore options that have not been tested yet. These are theoretically sensible inclusions but through testing it may emerge that they are not suitable.
The card advantage selection is where the deck is particularly clever. All of the above cards have multiple uses, and are not purely used for deck cycling. Relic of Progenitus, for example, is a key card when battling Living End, Goryo's Vengeance, Snapcaster Mage, Tarmogoyf and Scavenging Ooze. However if you get to the late game and draw a land when you need a threat instead, then Relic of Progenitus can be sacrificed in order to draw another card. Similarly, Mind Stone is a ramp engine that can also be turned into another draw, and Pyrite Spellbomb is a burn spell or deck cycling depending on the needs of the player at the time. Scrying Sheets is another interesting example of the versatile card advantage philosophy because in this particular deck it serves around three obvious, yet different, functions. Scrying Sheets is a snow permanent and so powers up Skred. Scrying Sheets is itself a land and therefore does not need to take up a precious nonland slot. It also does what most lands do and produces mana. Finally, its second activated ability allows you to turn a topdeck that would be a land into something else, which lends strong late-game advantages.
Chandra, Pyromaster is hugely important to Skred because she acts as removal, a win condition, and a card advantage engine all at the same time. Her +1 ability is particularly powerful because not only does it damage the opponent, but also a creature they control as well. One damage is not a lot, but it can hit tokens, and Dark Confidant, and it is therefore well appreciated. It is also essential to be aware that her +1 ability prevents the creature from blocking that turn, which is relevant if the opponent owns a threat that you would not ordinarily be safe to swing into. Chandra’s 0 ability is also extremely powerful in this deck, because it stacks up with all the other sources of card cycling to ensure that every turn a good card is drawn.
Red does not have strong pure card advantage, but Skred has improvised and found ways around this. All of these cards are interesting because they do not only exist to draw cards; they have specific functions against a variety of decks, be that damage, graveyard exile, or ramp. In the future it is probable that more aggressive versions of Skred may play Abbot of Keral Keep. This card synergises very nicely with our burn spells due to prowess and also allows the player to dig a little deeper into the deck when it enters the battlefield. On the other end of the spectrum, Outpost Siege seems more appropriate in Big Skred decks that can ramp up quickly and potentially drop this card on turn two or three. A constant source of card advantage throughout the entire game seems exceedingly useful for any deck that expects the game to go long.
The Threats
Skred decks come in two types, as explained in the introduction. Some have chosen to emulate Tron through their selection of threats that cost huge amounts of mana. Others have instead decided to keep their threats a little easier to cast.
The win conditions are split into two categories. Those that are Big: Wurmcoil Engine and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, and those that are Traditional: Boros Reckoner and Stormbreath Dragon. Koth of the Hammer is necessary in all versions of the deck due to his ability to both provide threats and ramp into larger win conditions.
The traditional deck is surprisingly fast when it needs a quick win. With four Lightning Bolts, four Boros Reckoners, four Koth of the Hammer, and some number of Stormbreath Dragon, a large amount of damage can be done in a small space of time.
For example:
Turn 1 Lightning Bolt (3 damage)
Turn 2 Mind Stone
Turn 3 Koth of the Hammer and animate a land (4 damage, total dealt is 7)
Turn 4 Stormbreath Dragon and swing with the dragon and a Koth land (8 damage, 15 dealt total)
Turn 5 win.
Clearly this is not an aggro deck but it certainly has good tempo and the mana-curve flows very nicely from one threat to another. From Boros Reckoner to Koth of the Hammer to Stormbreath Dragon and a potential win, the cards seem to almost sequence themselves. Though it is of course worth remembering that the main structure of the deck wants to play a controlling game, not an aggressive one.
The true value of the traditional build is the synergy that Boros Reckoner provides with the rest of the deck, and its blocking potential. The key to this is that Boros Reckoner bounces all damage it takes onto a target creature or player. Therefore it can trade with huge threats in combat, such as Primeval Titan because it will deal three combat damage when it blocks and then can bounce the six damage it takes back to the titan. Boros Reckoner can also easily deal with smaller threats due its ability to gain first strike. Furthermore, if targeted by a Skred it can bounce huge amounts of damage onto the opponent, and if hit by Volcanic Fallout it can bounce the 2 damage it takes to kill a creature with 4 toughness, or onto the opponent. Do not even get me started on the Blasphemous Act + Boros Reckoner interaction. The Boros Reckoner + Skred combo is the heart of Traditional Skred, and the key to that interaction is this wonderfully versatile creature.
Big Skred relies more heavily on ramping artifacts and Koth of the Hammer to do its best impression of Tron. The aim here is to play a turn three Koth of the Hammer in order to produce eight mana on turn four which results in a Wurmcoil Engine or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon staring at the opponent from your side of the board. There is more inherent risk to this strategy because the deck can be slower to start if it fails to produce any sources of ramp (such as Mind Stone, Koth of the Hammer, or Solemn Simulacrum). It also suffers from poor top decks where the card you want is a ramp piece but the card you draw is an uncastable win condition. However, compared to the traditional deck, Big Skred handles the late game better by producing more robust threats that are harder to handle with removal spells and have a larger impact on the game.
Any Other Business
Skred is not solved. Do not be afraid to work on the deck yourself, and take risks. Try colour splashes. Test alternative win conditions. Experiment!
I have seen white included in Skred decks for Lightning Helix and Soulfire Grand Master. Soulfire Grand Master allows the player to cast spells over and over again, whilst turning board sweepers into hefty sources of lifegain. Another option with white would be Ajani Vengeant which lends more removal options with the repeatable Lightning Helix ability, and land destruction with his ultimate. Black splashes are sometimes present for stronger removal in cards such as Terminate, and win conditions such as Demigod of Revenge. Blue splashes can give Snapcaster Mage for further card advantage, and Stubborn Denial could work nicely in a deck alongside Koth of the Hammer and dragons. All of these can be powered by swapping Mind Stone which only taps for colourless for Coldsteel Heart which taps for a colour of your choice.
There are also options for completely changing Skred into new subtypes.
- What about land destruction Skred which features Deus of Calamity and Fulminator Mage alongside the Blood Moons?
- Or how about an aggressive version with Monastery Swiftspear, Goblin Guide, and Eidolon of the Great Revel? Such a deck could curve into Boros Reckoner as a finisher. However any aggressive Skred deck would be better off removing many of its control options, and would thus slowly transform into a traditional red aggro list such as Burn.
- There’s also the possibility for a dragon heavy list because Thundermaw Hellkite, Stormbreath Dragon, Avaricious Dragon and Thunderbreak Regent are all legal in Modern.
- Conversely there’s also the possibility for a planeswalker heavy version with Chandra, Pyromaster, Koth of the Hammer, Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, and Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded all being playable. Well, perhaps not Tibalt.
- More recently I saw a list that proposed swapping some removal spells for Ensnaring Bridge and Magus of the Moon. A deck with up to 8 copies of Blood Moon along with Ensnaring Bridge would have access to cards that hate extremely effectively on the vast majority of the Modern metagame. It could, and probably would, accrue a lot of free wins from opponents scooping to turn 2 Blood Moon or Ensnaring Bridge.
How Do We Play This Deck? (overview, specific tips, and synergies)
It is very important to remember that the main structure of the deck is made up of control cards. Any Skred player is going to find themselves drawing into control options more frequently than they draw into threats, and therefore attempting to rush quick wins is not an effective strategy. Aiming all your Lightning Bolts and Pyrite Spellbombs at the opponent and ignoring the creatures they play is doomed to fail as soon as you topdeck that Relic of Progenitus and lose tempo. Take the game slowly, and if the opponent does nothing just enjoy accruing a good selection of cards in hand. Play a win condition when the chance arises and use your removal spells to clear out blockers. Victory will come with patience and correctly assessing when to unload your hand, and when to hold back.
Remember to consider carefully how you sequence your spells. Particularly Lightning Bolt and Skred. Skred has the potential to do far more damage in later portions of the game, however Lightning Bolt has the potential to squeeze through a bit more direct damage. Consider what the opponent is playing and choose carefully. Will you need that Skred later to kill a four or five toughness creature? Or can you use it now and save the Lightning Bolt for a surprise win?
Do not underestimate Boros Reckoner and the huge impact first strike can have. You can clear out creatures with six toughness with just a Lightning Bolt, if you play it in response to combat/blockers and then activate Boros Reckoners first strike. Use this both offensively and defensively. Swing with your reckoner and dare them to not block. If they do then you remove their threat. If they do not block then try to follow up with a Lightning Bolt or Skred aimed straight at the opponent (or in the case of Skred at your own reckoner and then redirected to their face). Often this constitutes six or more damage, which is pretty huge in a format dominated by fetchlands and shocklands. You can remove blockers with seven toughness if you utilise Volcanic Fallout in a similar fashion. Volcanic Fallout is an instant. Let me repeat that: it is an instant. Declare reckoner as an attacker or blocker. Activate first strike. Play Volcanic Fallout. Everything takes two damage from fallout. Bounce two damage from reckoner to the threat. Allow combat damage to occur. You have just done three first strike damage, plus two from volcanic fallout, plus two from volcanic fallout bounced from reckoner: seven.
Use Scrying Sheets properly and remember it synergises with Chandra. Without the presence of Chandra you want to activate Scrying Sheets at the end of the opponents turn, just before they pass to you. A lot of your removal spells are instant speed so keeping that mana up can sometimes make the opponent hold back. If you do have a Chandra on board then I prefer to activate Scrying Sheets in my own turn. Draw your card for the turn and then activate Scrying Sheets to peek at the top card of your deck. If it is a land then you get to draw into it. If it is not then you can accurately decide whether or not you want to +1 Chandra or activate her 0 ability. Depending on this choice you may or may not want to swing in with a win condition. If you see a Lightning Bolt with Scrying Sheets then you know, for example, that you can do an extra three damage this turn with Chandra’s 0.
This is rarely relevant but remember that Koth of the Hammer turns mountains into creatures. Any mountain. With Blood Moon out you can activate Koth on an opponents land into order to make sure they cannot stabilise even if they do remove your Blood Moon by using Skred or some other means to kill it. Against any deck that plays lots of natural mountains this can be useful from time to time. Maybe you want to disrupt Scapeshift or Twin, for example.
Finally, aim to ultimate Koth whenever you can, and as soon as you can, even if it kills him. It is literally the best thing you can do in this deck whether you are ahead or behind. The emblem it provides allows your lands to tap for damage at instant speed, which effectively means that the opponent is not allowed to have creatures anymore, and if you have nothing better to do you can aim some absurd amount of damage at their face.
Strengths, Weaknesses, Thoughts?
Hopefully I have demonstrated in this article that Skred Red is more than able to handle a variety of creature based decks, and can have come fantastic matchups at times against a few surprisingly strong contenders such as Abzan. Whether it is through mana denial or targeted burn spells this is a deck that is very able to keep the board clear and produce game-winning threats. The trick to being most successful lies in sequencing your plays correctly, keeping options in hand (avoiding the temptation to empty your hand immediately), and playing sensibly.
One of the weakest aspects of the deck is, ironically, Skred itself because as a removal spell it is very slow and takes a long time to reach full potential. Decks that play early combos or threats may sometimes be out of reach. For example, Twin going off on turn four cannot be interacted with through either Lightning Bolt or Skred if you went second. Abzan or Jund playing Tarmogoyf on turn two is extremely hard to interact with at all, and a turn one Thoughtseize can quickly turn a fantastic hand into a very poor one. As I said before, Combust and Rending Volley are sideboard options, but by no means do they solve the matchups completely. Furthermore Tron is basically unwinnable without an early Blood Moon and a good amount of luck, because Oblivion Stone will always be bothersome. Having said that, both Molten Rain and Crumble to Dust exist are are viable sideboard cards.
One other deck to be particularly careful around is, oddly enough, another essentially mono-red deck: Burn. Skred relies on a large number of creatures to remove with its spells, whereas Burn does not need creatures to win at all. Furthermore all versions of Skred fail to put down their own win conditions until late into the game, giving Burn ample time to do critical amounts of damage. It is common to see Dragon's Claw in the sideboards of Skred to combat this menace.
Sibling Decks
In terms of style Skred Red plays somewhat similarly to some very accomplished decks. Traditional Skred is reminiscent of Abzan or Jund with its flexible mixture of control spells and impressive win conditions, whilst Big Skred is akin to mono-blue Tron, a deck that utilises ramp and control spells to play, and protect, huge threats. There is also a reasonably unheard of deck called Moonwalkers which is almost identical to Skred but swaps many of the control spells for further ramp such as Desperate Ritual or Simian Spirit Guide. It uses these to power out Blood Moon or Koth of the Hammer as early as turn 1. It could be considered an "all-in" Skred deck.
Outro
I have been playing Skred for a reasonable amount of time because it is full of interesting interactions and can perform very highly with practice and care. It is one of those rare decks that is reasonably cheap but also hugely flexible because it does not completely rely on one set game-plan. There are multiple ways to approach each game and many avenues to victory. That is the joy of control for me. One of the things I particularly like about Skred is that whilst it functions as a control deck for many portions of the game it has win conditions that can end games quickly and effectively. Many control decks previously have been less proactive and contain weak end-game threats which means games drag on, and for some, can get boring.
I hope you enjoyed this article about Skred Red and I hope that it can stimulate some discussion. Perhaps you even want to go out and test the deck yourself. If you do I would love to know your thoughts!
As always I welcome any comments and criticisms you may have. I’d especially love to see any game replays you record with a Skred deck so we can see it in action! Feel free to let me know what you enjoyed here and what you didn’t like as well. Maybe you have a request for next time? Maybe you have a question? Let me know below!
ChiefBell
The problem I have with her is she synergises poorly with all of your sweepers
December 11, 2015 2:43 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #3
What do you think of the lists that run 4x Thunderbreak Regent in addition to the usual 2-3 Stormbreath Dragon? Flying power, bolts on sight, solid 4 damage.
December 11, 2015 2:45 p.m.
Phenomenal write up on what I think is a highly underrated deck. I've been theory crafting a lot with Skred Red, and was consistently running into card advantage issues. I was also finding that stompy decks could lay down enough threats to exhaust my removal. I think I found an answer, but haven't had the chance to play it in person to see if it really works. Avaricious Dragon and Ensnaring Bridge. After turn 5-6, if I've exhausted my hand, the dragon has no downside. I get an additional card each turn, which I'm likely casting. On the upside, resolving the combo completely shuts down combat damage strategies.
I'm curious if this seems to be a viable strategy in Skred Red, or if it is a poor inclusion. If it helps, the shell I created for this version of Skred Red is Ghost's Skred Red
December 11, 2015 2:47 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON: Dragon heavy lists? I'm all for it. Though I think Koth is probably the better control piece. His ult is easy to achieve and once you have that you have a way to win and a way to remove creatures. Having said that having a 4 mana creature that pretty much just wins isn't bad by any means.
December 11, 2015 2:47 p.m.
ghost89 - Ensnaring bridge is symmetrical. If they can't attack then you can't attack. In that case you're better off going heavy on Chandra and Koth for their abilities which get around combat. Worth noting though that with Relic of Progenitus, Chandra, Pyromaster and Mind Stone you should have sufficient card draw.
December 11, 2015 2:49 p.m.
Agreed on the fact the bridge is symmetrical. In that scenario, I would effectively be locking the board until Koth can ult, or I can resolve a large enough Skred on a Boros Reckoner.
December 11, 2015 4:15 p.m.
Emorelleum says... #10
I enjoyed the writeup a lot. I have been toying with trying this for a while, especially since burn has evolved into a 3-color no-nonred-basics deck and merfolk mana bases work really hard to not get blown out by Choke, maindeck blood moons keep getting safer and safer.
I will note that with Primeval Titan, the reckoner will deal 3, but only be assigned 3 damage from the titan to bounce back (the other 3 will be assigned to you, and not the reckoner). It still is enough to kill the titan, but unfortunately is not a lot to the face if that is your prerogative.
December 11, 2015 5:02 p.m.
Emorelleum - It's usually enough to just 1-for-1 that Titan!
December 11, 2015 5:09 p.m.
GreenGhost says... #13
I would like to see your take on a tribal deck. Something like allies or soldiers maybe even elves for merfolk. Those last two are a little common though, so I'd like to see something a little more out there.
December 11, 2015 5:14 p.m.
Green_Ghost - I'm sure I can accommodate that. One problem is that I tend to stick to lists that have history and have pre existing tournament results. I do this so that I can talk about how the deck has changed and all the different options. If I were to talk about a deck that hadn't been tested at all then I'd have no basis for my claims because I wouldn't know what was good or bad, if you see what I mean. There will be something I can do though.
December 11, 2015 5:40 p.m.
GreenGhost says... #15
I see what you mean, but it would be great if you could.
December 11, 2015 6:49 p.m.
Still feel like the deck isnt yet solvable without something being printed..
...That and every good deck needs a 3 mana catch-all.. dont think we have one..
December 11, 2015 7:59 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #17
How do you feel about Inferno Titan in a build like this?
December 12, 2015 9:53 a.m.
libertymic says... #18
at first i though shrine of burning rage was questionable and wasnt sure if it was good i have never been so wrong it slowly build up counters to kill you opponent and it play right into your strategy of cheap removal also boost it very effectively and secondly a card i felt i must mention for burn is red sun zenith it is amazing and should be played in all versions of tron forever
December 12, 2015 10:08 a.m.
SuperLicorice says... #19
From what I read, one of the problems in the deck was the lack of card advantage, so a quick look at the gatherer gave me this (keep in mind I am not a modern savant):
Faithless Looting get two uses out of one card, but you don't actually get any cards.
Desperate Ravings actually does get you cards, but it is slower, and you only have one use.
Crimson Wisps can potentially make you win a turn earlier by targeting a Stormbreath Dragon.
Also two more cards that haven't made a debut in modern (yet) but that could be good:
Humble Defector an aggressive body with lots of card advantage, but it goes to your opponents which could be your downfall.
Magmatic Insight can get rid of lands that are dead cards in your hand, but a completely dead draw on a land light hand.
Just another cool card that I think would be a cool idea for discussion: Pyromaster Ascension.
December 12, 2015 12:10 p.m.
Ryotenchi - Decks are solvable in as much as you can find the best current combination. Doesn't necessarily mean the current combination is that competitive. So you can have a "correct answer" that's still bad haha.
canterlotguardian - Love the card and wanted to run it but Wurmcoil Engine is probably just better for Big Skred. That Lifelink can be super relevant sometimes. If you're not playing Big Skred then you can't really get away with it.
libertymic - Shrine of Burning Rage is way too slow. It takes a long time to accumulate counters when you could just win quickly with something like Stormbreath Dragon which has haste and is hard to hit with removal. On that note Shrine of Burning Rage is basically asking to be hit by Abrupt Decay etc because with an activated cost of 3 mana there is no way you can keep that mana up constantly to activate it in response. If I were casting lots and lots of 1 mana burn spells and I got 3 or 4 counters per turn BUT as it is I'm only getting around 2 per turn, and thats only from turn 2 onwards which means I can only get 4 damage-ish by the end of turn 4, 6-ish by turn 5 etc. That's not great.
SuperLicorice - True control needs to run card draw spells that also have another function. Look at Remand and Cryptic Command, for example. You can't just run a card that says 'draw some cards' UNLESS you're a combo deck and you essentially want to only run 56 cards. You dont have the luxury of space to do that in Skred. Faithless looting wont help because you use 3 (remember you cast the actual card itself and then discard two) to only draw 3. Ravings again isn't actually card advantage because you lose 2 cards and gain two cards. Also discarding at random is just not acceptable. Stormbreath Dragon has haste. Humble Defector only works in combo decks where the 2 cards you draw are going to win the game. If not you give it the opponent and you get absolutely no advantage because they get a chance to activate it too. Magmatic Insight wont work and besides you really need lands for Skred. No such thing as a land heavy hand in skred.
The card draw suite is weak but its vitally important you appreciate what it does do. All of the cards achieve something they dont just 'draw some cards'. The deck does have weak card advantage BUT if you play carefully it's not a problem. Don't just blow your hand - like I said.
December 12, 2015 4:28 p.m.
Yup and thats where I feel were at.. I want more.. a chance to be patient is what I get instead..
I really want it to be competitive at some point.. Cant quite afford to invest in a deck that is not over one that is right now. Shineh Koth and Mindstones though.. =n.n=
(Its almost perfect for my meta, as 2 pilots are picking up their Blood Moons.. Im assuming for nefarious reasons.)
On the Mtgsalv Primer I think it was, I saw someone running 4 Pia and Kiran Nalaar and 4 Hangarback Walker. Which might be decently viable, I just dont want to shell out for 3 more walkers.. What do you think?
December 12, 2015 5:03 p.m.
Jamesfurrow says... #23
I'm curious if you think Hangarback Walker is worthy of testing? He seems like a decent card for the list especially since it can in the big skred versions come out early or later as a big bomb that can easily flood the board post wrath effects. Also do you prefer mono red skred or have you preference over a color combination for skred? For instance would gruul skred be bad since giving yourself your own Tarmogoyf and Huntmaster of the Fells Flip be reasonable? With mind stone especially it seems like it be easy to make GOYF a 5/6
December 12, 2015 9:59 p.m.
What do you think about Akroma, Angel of Fury as a finisher? It's more expensive than Stormbreath but with the mentioned ramp it is a stronger card.
December 13, 2015 3:11 p.m.
Ryotenchi, Jamesfurrow - I dont think hangarback is bad at all, but if you're running a version of skred that makes it worth running then is it better than wurmcoil? Meh. Also I kinda like Pia and Kiran but I dislike that their minions die to all your sweepers. Like again the problem is that theyre good but not necessarily better than anything else.
magiceli - And again the same sentiment. Akroma is good but is it better than Ugin, the Spirit Dragon?
December 13, 2015 5:12 p.m.
No I dont think its the answer.. I just reporting that I saw someone making the attempt.. I would be doing it if I thought it was the answer.
(I dont have wurmcoil in my list for budget reasons and Path to Exile reasons... I WANT THEM! Yeh know? xD)
December 13, 2015 6:42 p.m.
Jamesfurrow says... #27
I wasn't saying hangarback was better than wurmcoil but maybe better than stormbreath? For the reason hangarback simply floods a board better? Idk I thought it was decent when I could cast it turn 3 for 2 counters and then tick him up while pressuring the opponent to remove him through exile instead of the other skred peices like wurmcoil. It seems to compliment wurmcoil in the sence of if one is destroyed the other one can start taking over the game
December 13, 2015 7:45 p.m.
ChiefBell it's certainly a more budget option. Also i think it might be better than Stormbreath.
December 13, 2015 8:46 p.m.
Jamesfurrow - Problem is you have to cast for 4 for a 2/2 or for 6 for a 3/3. In either case I'd rather cast Koth of the Hammer for 4 and swing instantly and essentially win or stormbreath for 5 and swing in instantly and essentially win, or whatever else you may have. I'm actually most inclined to cast Hangarback Walker on those early turns where you may not have much to do like turn 2 or 3. In that case you can tick him up slowly while you build up your control pieces and he's not vying for a slot with the actual win conditions. Though if hes left alone you can build him up to be scary. So I wouldn't consider him a replacement for anything that just hands down wins games but I would consider it viable for an early game attrition plan.
magiceli - Indeed more budget and probably better than stormbreath but also 3 more mana which means potentially 3 turns slower to cast. You don't run stormbreath in decks that can reach 8 mana anyway. The deck aims to reach 8 mana so quickly that putting in 5 drops is silly. So you either have a situation where you have an uncastable 8 drop in a deck not designed to ramp that hard or you have a castable 8 drop in a deck that is designed to ramp but its just maybe, probably not as good as ugin.
If you want to play small skred and replace stormbreath then go to Thundermaw Hellkite or Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
December 14, 2015 4:53 a.m.
What about a Dragon heavy build, and Draconic Roar? Burn uses Searing Blaze to great effect and with 7-8 dragons between Thunderbreak Regent, Stormbreath Dragon and Thundermaw Hellkite, you could easily have a dragon very consistently.
December 14, 2015 2:40 p.m.
atomic_moose says... #31
Thank you for this write up! I had heard of skred decks before but now I know. Great job!
December 14, 2015 7:16 p.m.
SuperLicorice says... #32
This could very well be a terrible idea- and if it is please no hate- but would Chandra, Flamecaller (the new one from OGW) be a good idea? Her + is pretty good, maybe not exactly what Skred is looking for, her 0 is card advantage, and her ult is a sweeper that you could pop her for immediately.
December 15, 2015 10:28 p.m.
elementalheroflamewingman says... #33
Remembered the Free Win Red deck posted on MTGGOLDFISH a week ago. Thought to incorporate skred into it, especially since the hard lock in the free win red strategy seems to be extremely good which protects you from auto-losing in top deck mode. Here's a sample list i came up with Free Win Skred
December 16, 2015 2:24 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #34
The dragons build of this deck (that runs 4 thunderbreak, 4 stormbreath, and one thundermaw) definitely uses 1-3 copies of draconic roar. I've seen it happen. I just dont personally think that that is better than having wurmcoils and ugin.
December 16, 2015 12:05 p.m.
@DevoidMage You're probably right...time so scrap that brew lol
December 16, 2015 1:05 p.m.
TheHroth - It seems fine but I wouldnt run roar anyway. Its not better than bolt or skred. Its not better than any sweeper either. In my opinion. The brew could be good but just focus on separating your control and your aggro. Dont try to force the two together, because as it is you get the worst of both worlds. 2 mana to do 3 damage to a creature is bad. 2 mana to do 3 to a player, conditionally, is bad. I just don't see it being worthwhile.
atomic_moose - Glad you liked it.
SuperLicorice - She's not bad as a finisher and you could MAYBE run one instead of wurmcoil because shes harder to hit with removal and can also refill your hand. But I'm not entirely convinced she's that good.
elementalheroflamewingman - Yeah that is essentially an explosive ramp skred deck that also plays Ensnaring Bridge. The shell of both decks is different though. Skred goes hard on control. Free wins goes hard on Desperate Ritual etc. You can merge the two if you want. It sort of works.
DevoidMage - I would play that version of the deck as one that took the ramp out and focused on 4-drops as win conditions. Maybe including just 1-2 5 mana things. I dont think it works as a Big Skred deck either.
December 16, 2015 3:33 p.m.
This is a bit of a tangent, so bear with me, but my issue with Skred red has always been that, in my opinion, Skred isn't that efficient of a card to be worth building around.
Do you think it could make sense to build a deck on similar principles (i.e. efficient removal, sweepers, resource denial, and finishers) but splash white? Essentially, drop the snow basics, replace Skred with Path to Exile, maybe throw in a Wrath of God or something to that effect, but keep the idea the same?
I know you'd lose some of your efficiency in using Blood Moon, but having access to white would give you some nice potential sideboard cards, as well as more removal, and potentially a wider array of threats. And 2 color decks have been able to run Blood Moon and still survive (see UR Twin).
I don't know, its just a thought I had while going through this deck list. As far as the article, I really enjoyed reading it, and I thought it was very well done. Personally, I'd be interested in seeing you discuss 8-Rack, as I know you've played with it a decent amount and its always been a pet deck of mine. Its also in a little bit of a similar place as Skred in the sense that it's a bit fringe, but people have heard of it, and it also is capable of putting up decent results when people don't see it coming.
Cheers!
December 18, 2015 12:23 a.m. Edited.
Does anyone foresee a version of this that utilize the new "Sea Gate Ruins" over Scrying Sheets?
Concept:
- Ensnaring Bridge would combine with Avaricious Dragon so that you always have cards to play on your turn, and opponent can never attack on their turn.
- During their turn (after declare attackers phase), you can draw extra card(s) with "Sea Gate Ruins", and then an additional card(s) with Avaricious Dragon on your turn. (Possibly letting you swing with your dragons if you're drawing enough cards).
Downfall:
- The <> requirement of the "Sea Gate Ruins" likely means you can't run as many Snow-Covered Mountain, possibly disabling the Skred's value.
- Avaricious Dragon is not invulnerable... it may be easy for some decks to kill this part of your card advantage (Though the "Sea Gate Ruins" will probably still do wonders after you've discarded your hand once.)
December 18, 2015 2:17 p.m.
kmcree - Skred is really efficient because it costs 1 mana, but its slow because it requires snow permanents. Many people do agree that skred isn't a great card. Some skred decks do run white for path but they'd rarely cut skred. It's a slow card, but a good card. And one of the main reasons to run skred is that mainboard Blood Moon, which becomes problematic if you want to splash another colour (though still possible).
So all of your thoughts are definitely things that the community often talk about but they're tricky to integrate into a working decklist. I would advise against ignoring Skred though. I know its slow but you can kill goyfs for 1 mana, which is huge.
Rayenous - Sea Gate Ruins fits into all-in skred decks that quickly empty their hand and play things like Desperate Ritual. A normal Skred deck keeps cards in hand and has a few high mana cost permanents which makes it difficult to make sure your hand is empty. I can definitely see it in the free wins red deck that plays loads of rituals, ensnaring bridge, blood moon, and a few koth. That deck very quickly gets down to 0 in hand.
December 18, 2015 2:39 p.m.
Wizard_of_the_Broke says... #41
I think Skred just got a nice X-mas present. Thoughts?
December 20, 2015 7:57 p.m.
Worse than dragons when it comes to winning the game because no haste, no flying, and no protection from red.
Better than dragons when behind because you can "flashback" a Skred or something to kill an opposing creature.
Definitely worth testing.
December 21, 2015 1:31 a.m.
Jamesfurrow says... #43
That new goblin seems like good sideboard tech at the very least. The ability to reuse removal or a draw engine seems nice in those grindy match ups
December 21, 2015 7:21 a.m.
Wizard_of_the_Broke says... #44
Someone on another thread brought up a very good point- which is that you can flashback Anger of the Gods, and not only does GDD survive, but the play makes his evasion way better. I'd say that makes him really good if you mainboard more than 1X Anger, and good mainboarded against much of the field. I agree you'd have to adjust the rest of the deck a bit, because you can't rely on him to finish a game on his own.
December 21, 2015 1:55 p.m.
Everyone mainboards sweepers in Skred anyway. I'm still torn about him. He's amazing in some situations but poor in others. Like the dragons really. It's just that for 5 mana I hope to be winning the game, not being on the defensive. It's tough.
Servo_Token says... #1
I've been toying with skred about two months now, and have to say that Pia and Kiran Nalaar is an amazing piece in any version of the deck. Some aggressive builds will only want one copy, but I play the Ugin version and have played up to three. It's an instant three for one that can throw a quarter of your deck at your opponent for 2 life, and sometimes those 1/1s just get there. Highly recommended.
Also, more controlling versions can and often do play up to four wurmcoil engines. It just solves so many issues that the deck has.
December 11, 2015 2:21 p.m.