Fluffy Finances
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fluffybunnypants
16 February 2015
2526 views
16 February 2015
2526 views
Hype Season and Shenanigans Extended
You know what’s a bitch about prices around the PT season? Hype. You know what’s more of a bitch if you land on the wrong side of it? Speculators. I previously wrote a post that was more of a rant with some evidence rather than going into analysis regarding prices. But let’s bring Azusa and some other examples back.
Azusa, Lost but Seeking has had a couple healthy spikes in price over the years, but has generally remained appropriately costed for being a popular EDH general that sees some play in some of the more fringe decks in Modern and Legacy. Azusa then spikes up to right around $50 at this Pro Tour. Another card had a similar spike, but saw zero play (that I know of) this Pro Tour. Good old Leonin Shikari. I’ve heard all sorts of random speculation regarding this hilarious price spike.
That’s ruthless right there. There’s really no other reasoning that can be attributed to it other than a buyout (which it’s been widely attributed to across the internet). Apparently some douche bought out the few that were circulating in online stores. Normally when this happens, there’s some kind of hype attributed to it, but not in this case. I mean, there’s Tiny Leaders… but you can only play one in that format.
Let’s take a look at a couple examples of healthier spikes in price from the Pro Tour to paint a better picture. First, the winner.
Good old Splinter Twin. You can see the increase in price right around PTBNG during the Modern Boom, but then it decreases and evens out before getting a spike right at PTFRF. That’s a healthy spike of around $4. Something you typically see when a known deck wins a Pro Tour.
How about another example? Okay, let’s look at a card that was still very popular but had fallen out of favor with both Legacy and Modern players recently.
Liliana of the Veil saw a resurgence in play during PTFRF. Since her price plateau post PTBNG she eventually was used less and less, even more so recently due to the dominance of Treasure Cruise decks in both Modern and Legacy where she was far too slow to actively be useful, especially when you were just fueling your opponent’s delving capability with the +1. Naturally, she dropped in price, nearly back down to what her price was during ISD/RTR Standard. However, with Abzan suddenly being one of the decks to beat again post Cruise Gate, predictably, her price has seen a nice spike that starts off right around banning time. This sort of spike happens a lot with cards that were higher priced to begin with but fell out of favor for reasons xyz. Eventually Lili will start to drop back down in price, but she will probably remain above her previous high price unless WotC decides to keep their pimp hand strong. Yes, I just said that, it’s late, I’m tired and this isn’t the New York Times. If you didn't grab her before Cruise got banned, you've probably missed your opportunity at getting a decent price on her, until something else pushes her out of Modern and Legacy simultaneously again.
Another example? How about another card from the runner up?
With Amulet of Vigor you can see its initial spike in price due to people thinking it was pretty sweet during PTBNG and the Modern Boom. The spike wasn’t that big as the deck never really put up substantial numbers after that. We are seeing a similar spike in price after this last Pro Tour where it came in second place. It’s probably safe to say that Amulet will drop back down to where it was pre-spike, predominantly because of Bloom Titan’s difficulty to pilot, it’s lack of pedigree as a deck and the fact that Amulet is not a card like Candelabra of Tawnos (basically only used in EDH and High Tide in Legacy), despite being the lynchpin of the combo, and people cannot ask whatever the hell they want for it.
Just for the hell of it, three more examples. First, a card that has held steady post Modern boom.
Noble Hierarch is the go to mana dork in Modern at this junction. It’s Lianowar Elves with an upside and the target of much hubris from people who didn’t buy it pre-Modern Boom. A victim of its own popularity, it was the best opening possible in Birthing Pod, pre ban. It now sees play in Wilted Abzan and Infect in Modern as well as Infect in Legacy. It’s still highly playable post Pod banning, as this last Pro Tour has shown and as such, stayed right around where it was. Honestly, if its not banned (let’s be honest a ban is probably never happening here), it will remain right about where it is.
Golgari Grave-Troll currently suffers from Bitterblossomitis. It got unbanned in Modern and people speculated on it… hard, so hard in fact that people were buying it out pre-announcement. I mean, it was banned from the very beginning of Modern, it had to be capable of doing some straight busted things right? Well, maybe, but it certainly wasn’t showcased at the PT. However, it did create some collateral damage with its hype train. Check out Vengevine prices.
These prices will slowly decline, but probably not back to where they used to be as Dredgevine is now more viable, which isn’t really huge, but, hey, it’s something and there are people out there who will insist on attempting to make it T1.
Let’s take a look at another card that got a nice price bump from pure hype. Stoneforge Mystic appeared on a fake list of bans/unbans for Modern and caused mass speculation and buyouts of the card that resulting in a $10 jump in price. Note that it didn’t get unbanned, but has stayed right where it jumped to, presumably because people are reverting back to decks like UWR Delver in Legacy post Treasure Cruise banning in Legacy. Although, if it did become Modern legal, Misty would easily be an $80 plus card.
I would by lying to you if I said that people out there aren’t attempting to create fake price spikes where there are opportunities. It’s important to take a look at a cards history and potential playability before investing. A lot of people, including several main voice in the financing community pointed to Doran, the Siege Tower as a card that was likely to spike due to it starting to see play in Modern as well as being a great card for Tiny Leaders. As such, it has seen a healthy, natural spike in pricing that can plausibly be attributed to its success and popularity.
TL;DR
-Mass speculation and forced buyouts of cards are harmful to the Magic economy and are typically abusive to EDH players and people trying to build the most popular recent decks of any format. I'm not going to point any fingers.
-Don’t jump on a hype train.
-If you do buy into hype, offload that shit ASAP as groups who force a spike will typically slowly feed cards back into the market to turn a profit and the price will steadily decline.
-Old and limited print Legacy staples, regardless of how few decks they are actually played in, retain a higher value due to rarity.
-Tournament results do not force cards to spike drastically in price compared to their previous value; only hype and buyouts do that, keep that in mind when looking at price increases.
-Look at recent tournament results (not MTGO) to determine the chances of a card retaining an increased value.
For the lolz:
RIP Birthing Pod
I was one of the lucky ones who sold off his deck mere months prior to the banning. I mostly did it because I wasn’t playing it in Modern and it was starting to consistently place multiple times in the Top8 of high level Modern tournaments, which gave me a sinking feeling. Hindsight is certainly 20/20 in this matter as there was a valid argument about the possibility of WotC not banning it due to a ban leading to the invalidation of an entire archetype in the format, but there really wasn’t anything else that WotC could ban to bring the deck back down to earth as it mostly consisted of B- creatures, lands and 4 Pods. We can also look back and see how Wizards has previously treated similar creature tutors that created a color imbalance in the format at a competitive level (Green Sun's Zenith). We can now see Pod suffering from the same sort of price drop that Lili did, except it has been a much sharper decline when it was much less expensive and it is likely permanent unless Legacy manages to break it.
Maybe I’ll fire off some predictions before the release of DTK and we can see how they turn out.
But, let's keep it recent for now.
My current specs: 2/14
Outpost Siege - Criminally underrated card in my opinion. See an extra card every turn or cause removing your creatures to still be a pain in the ass. Seems pretty great to me. It’s currently only Standard playable, so I don’t expect a huge leap, but it’s still only $.50 as of writing this.
Humble Defector – Specifically foil ones. As of writing this, they sit around $5. I’m assuming that RDW in both Standard and Modern will want these. Also, there’s something charming about twinning one in Modern.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang - Foils are currently around $25 as of writing this. His price is probably only going up with time as long as he continues to see eternal play. Might as well.
Smother – Again, foils to be exact, I believe they are currently at about $1.50. I have seen a few other people point at this card with Tiny Leaders being a growing format. In Tiny Leaders it basically just reads pay 1B and 1 to remove a creature. Pretty useful I would say.
I'm not speculating into Doran, the Siege Tower as I believe that it has already seen most of its increase in price already.
miracleHat says... #2
Bah, Leonin Shikari... I am glad that Azusa, Lost but Seeking did jump though: mainly because I got her for $15 for EDH. Just out of interest, where do you think Monastery Mentor is going to go? I just pulled one in a prize pack and I have no need for it.
February 16, 2015 6:28 p.m.
slovakattack says... #3
Monastery Mentor is not fast enough for Modern. If it finds a home in Legacy, then he will fluctuate for the duration of his Standard career, drop when FRF rotates, and then rise steadily (with room to jump if he somehow becomes popular in Modern, etc.)
He's a bomb in Tiny Leaders. The format increasing in popularity will also increase his price.
February 16, 2015 6:31 p.m.
TheGrayMerchant says... #4
Possible combo to break Outpost Siege?
Use rabblemaster or some other token producing thing to make lots of tokens. Use Bile Blight on your own guys. Kill opponent.
I'll be happy if someone does manage to break even one of the sieges.
February 16, 2015 7:41 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #5
Monastery Mentor seems insane in eternal formats, especially Vintage, but I don't have the resources to currently tell you if he's about to be in a bomb deck or not. Currently, its foil price will never reach its starting point of $80 again unless it becomes a staple in Legacy... which is possible, but then again, it's no True-Name Nemesis. It's really a call on your part based on an assessment of risk vs reward. If he becomes a Legacy staple he will maintain his current value at the least, if he doesn't, his foil will continue to decline until he rotates out of standard or is no longer played in a successful deck, at which time he'll drop like a rock.
February 16, 2015 7:48 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #6
There were a few lists in a Legacy event over the weekend that ran Monastery Mentor, a Delver list sans . Being a stronger version of Young Pyromancer, Mentor can hold a place in a few Legacy decks, and even Modern. It's splashable and can do much in the correct tempo shell. That being said, I can see it maintaining Eternal value.
Mayhap Stoneforge Mystic spiked because of the TC ban in Legacy. StoneBlade variants have the upper hand in the attrition war w/o Cruise. Makes sense to me. Regardless, Delver remains a Tier 1 archetype in Legacy, pulling results in a recent event post TC banning.
Vengevine and Golgari Grave-Troll are obvious spikes, as the OP mentioned. It could be a Tier 1 deck given the time and brewing. That crappy white card makes zero sense and speaks volumes of speculation and buyouts. Shady ish, yo.
Reminds me of when I inquired of the price of a NM Dark Depths at a LGS, Fantasy Cards and Games. $55.00 it was. Went in to pick it up a week later and it was $65.00. Traded a Griselbrand, Flusterstorm, and $22.00 for that ish. They didn't give jack for store credit, but in any case, case in point.
February 16, 2015 7:54 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #7
I just wanted to highlight this after discussing it with slovakattack. The price spike on artificial spikes is very temporary and soon drops to significantly less than its spiked cost, but not back to where it used to be.
February 17, 2015 12:44 p.m.
Manifest + Emrakul / Iona / fatties etc + blink is getting popular in casual play. Only reason I can see Ghostway rising.
February 17, 2015 2:29 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #10
Eternal Ghostway gained significant hype as a deck post Pod ban, but failed to live up to the hype. The deck saw some play at the PT, but didn't have enough success to remain at it's spiked price. There was also talk about comboing it with Seance... which had no spike at all.
February 17, 2015 2:32 p.m.
Not sure if anyone here subscribes to SCG Premium but their finance guy Chas Andres had a great article last week on specs to pick up that should be spiking soon. Among them were Lingering souls shooting to 1.50-2 dollars a piece, Eidolon of the Great Revel hitting 15-20 within the year if it doesn't see a reprint, Abrupt Decay should be shooting up to 25/30 at some point, and there's really no reason it hasn't already, Gavony Township should double, and Scavenging Ooze should hit 10. There were others but I think those ships have sailed.
February 17, 2015 6:19 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #12
The hype train on Eidolon of the Great Revel sailed a long ass time ago. If you don't have foils of that card and you are an investor, I do recommend grabbing them now because they are actually necessary for you to play Burn in both Modern and Legacy.
Lingering Souls has always seemed criminally under-valued as a card. Primed for an increase? There have been murmurs, but nothing to really point to it aside from a slight increase in price.
Abrupt Decay has always been on the watch list as it's insane in Legacy, but I think that its standard printing will stay relatively stable and slowly rise as Legacy players love foils and the foil version is already at $75.
Gavony Township is really highly reliant on the success of Wilted Abzan as a deck as it really doesn't have a home otherwise. It's an outstanding card that can close out a game, but the demand is currently not there for it.
Here's Scavenging Ooze:
While it used to be a $40 card, being part of a long print run like a core set will really screw with the value of a card, especially if it's not alternate art reprint. Look at an insane card like Thoughtseize. The original used to be a $70 card, a reprint with different art dropped it to $36 and change... the reprint is currently chilling at $20. The saving grace of Thoughtseize's original printing? Lorwyn foils are going for about $250 and actually spiked in price post Theros reprint to over $400 while the Theros foil is currently around $50. Sure, there are two kinds of foils for Scooze, the media promo and the M14 foil, but it's not like they've been barn burners. The promo has actually increased in price a little, but the M14 foil has followed the price curve of its non-foil counterpart.... down. Supply/Demand is just not in the right place to make this card price spike currently and it's not like it's poised to be in every Legacy deck that plays green. Solid long term investment? Plausible. Long term bomb? Probably not.
If I had to do it again, I'd probably also add Inquisition of Kozilek (lolTinyLeaders) to my list of specs.
Currently worth noting is that Pact of Negation and Karn, Silver Golem are both dropping in price.
February 17, 2015 10:01 p.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #14
I don't know about Leonin Shikari, seems like there must be a reason for a $10 spike but what is it? It hasn't got eternal value nor is it played much in EDH. Tiny Leaders would not spike the price $10.
February 18, 2015 2:36 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #15
There was only a small amount available online. Looks like someone bought them out.
February 18, 2015 7:22 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #17
Unlikely, at least in the foreseeable future.
February 18, 2015 9:20 a.m.
slovakattack says... #18
People need to start speccing on Gore Swine. That card is going places. I mean, a 4-1 for 3? Bruuuuuuuh
February 18, 2015 9:26 a.m.
Yeah, soon Gore Swine is going to have to get banned from standard...
February 18, 2015 4:02 p.m.
Another good question...What the heck is with Hero of Iroas?! I thought he was a junk rare that I shouldn't like (even though I did), but I still picked up three for $.50 each. Now he is 7 bucks, and I haven't seen a single deck other than my own that made use of him! Please explain my fault.
February 18, 2015 4:46 p.m.
Minelia5 I think he's a four of in U/W Heroic. Maybe a three of but pretty sure it's four. The deck is (was) extremely budget friendly and pretty damn competitive if you could pilot it correctly, and as such, that's probably why he's spiked.
February 18, 2015 4:48 p.m.
Ah, okay. I guess I haven't noticed it. Good thing I picked up 3!
February 18, 2015 4:49 p.m.
I've noticed Leyline of Sanctity and Bitterblossom are on the move, but I've been wondering why Avacyn, Angel of Hope is aswell. Besides the obvious reasons of course. Legacy maybe?
February 18, 2015 10:02 p.m.
Wait. Are we actually complaining about people wanting to build the most competitive decks? Wow.
February 20, 2015 8:52 a.m.
awesomeguy37 - yes tiny leaders has spiked prices. My foil Merieke Ri Berit has gone from like $5 to over $40. OVER $40! I picked her up for the lolz for EDH. Now I'm trading her foil shocklands. LOL at you casuals playing tiny leaders.
February 20, 2015 8:53 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #26
I'm just trying to educate people. What they do with the information is their business.
February 20, 2015 8:55 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #27
Foil ones did. Regulars are still $.50. The foil ones actually spiked to over $100.
February 20, 2015 8:58 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #29
FNM price preview of my specs.
Just for lolz, let's look at Outpost Siege foils:
February 20, 2015 12:11 p.m.
KrosanTusker says... #32
What do you think of Ancestral Vision, from a speculation point of view? I think it's possible they could be unbanned in the future. They're weaker than Cruise, after all.
February 23, 2015 11:33 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #33
I think after seeing what having cheap blue draw did to the format that Visions is probably never getting unbanned by Wizards. We'll see next ban cycle.
February 23, 2015 12:33 p.m.
KrosanTusker says... #34
I'm thinking it might help fight the grindy midrange decks, but I can see why they'd be cautious!
February 23, 2015 1:19 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #35
I think think that the real issue is that suspending Visions on turn one basically becomes the best turn one in the game upon its unbanning.
February 23, 2015 1:24 p.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #36
Ancestral Vision would push the control decks overt he limit and make them really good. I don't see them unbanning it any time soon.
February 23, 2015 1:51 p.m.
KrosanTusker says... #38
Yeah, but how well are the control decks doing right now? They could do with a little help!
Suspending Visions T1 is good, but against any aggressive deck, it only cements the inevitability you should have kinda already got by the time it comes off suspend.
It's certainly powerful, but I don't think it's format-warping.
Galtar says... #1
Goddamn Grave-Troll unbanning, driving up the price for me to complete my Legacy deck. Conversation went like this at my LGS:
Me: Hey, Keith.
Keith: Hey.
Me: Got those Grave-Trolls I had asked for?
Keith: Sure do. At'll be $30.
Me: You f*cking what, Keith!?!
Keith: They just unbanned it in Modern, y'know.
Me: WHY!?!?! Doesn't Wizards hate Dredge?
Keith: Just enough to leave Dread Return banned.
Me: Fuck me. I'll be back with $20 more.
February 16, 2015 6:07 p.m.