Spooty Decks: The State of Simic, Pt. I

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Spootyone

15 October 2015

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Spooty decks: The State of Simic, pt I

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Hello all!

Welcome back to Spooty decks, where I discuss brews and other deck ideas I have mixing around in my head like some kind of colorful stew (perhaps I shouldn't be writing this on my lunch break!). This time around I'd like to begin a series of indefinite length where I discuss the situation revolving around UG decks in standard. Many of you may know me as a GW buff, and I totally am. However, my second favorite color combo is UG. It's an archetype I have explored off and on since learning to play and I've even made a couple successful UG decks, one of which was Primordial Soup - a Kiora ramp deck looking to spit out Sylvan Primordial. Hopefully you all enjoy taking this ride with me as we explore the options available to us as true members of the Simic Combine.

To begin, I'm going to introduce you to one of my current decks: Bounding Realms.

4x Bounding Krasis 1x Canopy Vista 1x Cinder Glade 2x Deathmist Raptor 4x Den Protector 1x Dispel 4x Flooded Strand 4x Forest 4x Hangarback Walker 2x Horribly Awry 4x Island 2x Kiora, Master of the Depths 2x Lumbering Falls 1x Prairie Stream 4x Rattleclaw Mystic 3x Reality Shift 2x Silumgar Sorcerer 4x Skyrider Elf 1x Sunken Hollow 4x Windswept Heath 4x Woodland Wanderer 2x Yavimaya Coast Sideboard: 2x Deathmist Raptor 2x Disdainful Stroke 3x Dispel 2x Exert Influence 2x Greenwarden of Murasa 2x Sagu Mauler 2x Stratus Dancer

This is a deck I've been working on for about a week now. I wanted to make good use of Bounding Krasis and the UG converge creatures, and using Kiora as a sort of engine to force my opponent to stumble while I out tempo-ed them. If you plan on following this series closely, I highly encourage you to take a second to go into the deck page to see the changes that have already been made to the deck. For each one, I go into detail on why I made that change, and what it was replaced with. This will give you a better foothold onto the discussion.

Now, this deck has some glaring weaknesses, and others that are not too obvious. To begin, the deck lacks solid removal. I've been toying around with a couple different options regarding that. Encase in Ice was tested and just recently proved to be not good enough for this deck in this format, being weak to Dromoka's Command and also not dealing with all the creatures it needs to, even if it can manage to target them.

The next step on the ladder for me is to test out Reality Shift . Reality shift is another cheap instant with a downside, so I'll be interested to see whether or not the downside is too great. Reality Shift does a lot of work versus Hangarback Walker, Deathmist Raptor, and other must exile threats, but the random 2/2 may prove to be too large of a speed bump to handle.

Next, I want to discuss Kiora herself. Kiora is an interesting card with interesting applications. She appears to be ramp and card advantage focused, but in this build she is more of an untap engine with additional card advantage options. One thing I recognized quickly about her minus ability was how rare getting free large amounts of cards into the grave is these days. Card advantage plus self mill sounds like the perfect combo to enable a dig through time deck. Additionally, Deathmist Raptor doesn't mind heading to the old bin from time to time, making the choice of creatures to put into your hand a lot easier. More on this in the future.

One of the things I noticed when playing this deck was how often I found everything to be going as planned, only to end up losing the game anyway. When this happens consistently, you can start to believe what your deck is doing just doesn't have enough backbone to support your potentially good playstyle. Because of this, I will now be going into why I think this deck is feeling weak.


First off, we have Skyrider Elf. This is one of the current mainstays of the above deck. But is it worth running? I've begun asking myself this: is a vanilla 2/2 flier for two good enough? 3/3 for three? 4/4 for four? What about a 5/5 for five? At two mana, we have cards like Icefeather Aven. While the aven may be fairly low impact, what does that say about a vanilla version? Strike one. At three mana, we have Mantis Rider. Mantis Rider is very strong and is held back by its inhibiting mana cost. Well...so is Skyrider Elf. Mantis Rider is good, and Skyrider Elf is worlds worse than it. Strike two.

At four mana, we have Thunderbreak Regent. Not only is thunderbreak much easier to cast in its decks, but it comes with a HUGE upside of bolting the opponent when targeted. Skyrider Elf just bows to that sort of power. Strike three. Lastly, we have cards like Dragonlord Ojutai at five mana. Ojutai is very easy to cast, and is one of the single most powerful creatures in standard. I think you know where I'm going with this. Strike four.

It appears that skyrider just isn't doing enough for the deck to warrant it's inclusion, so I'm going to add that to my do not play list unless simic allies appear out of nowhere.


Now, why else is this deck feeling weak? Well, I think it's because the speed of the deck is sitting right in the middle of "aggro enough to kill before they play Dragonlord Dromoka" and "big enough to outplay them in the late game". This deck doesn't feel like it packs enough early game punch OR late game potential. And that's a huge problem when that happens.

Let's try a more aggro route

2 Frost Walker 4 Bounding Krasis 2 Icefeather Aven 4 Rattleclaw Mystic 4 Harbinger of the Tides 2 Clutch of Currents 4 Hangarback Walker 4 Den Protector 2 Lumbering Falls 1 Canopy Vista 1 Cinder Glade 4 Flooded Strand 4 Forest 4 Island 1 Prairie Stream 1 Sunken Hollow 4 Windswept Heath 2 Yavimaya Coast 4 Deathmist Raptor 4 Woodland Wanderer 2 Reality Shift Sideboard: 15x storm crow

This deck is a good bit more aggressive, but might be a little too fragile versus Radiant Flames. A lot of the cards in this build are fairly weak, and the payoff is what? Getting to play UG? A respectable answer, but not a good enough one. Maybe a deck like this wants to try to make use of Collected Company, but I’m really not sure.


How about we try going bigger?

4 Rattleclaw Mystic 4 Hangarback Walker 4 Lumbering Falls 9 Forest 8 Island 4 Yavimaya Coast 3 Kiora, Master of the Depths 3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon 4 Hedron Archive 4 Explosive Vegetation 2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger 2 Nissa's Renewal 3 Encase in Ice 2 Clash of Wills 4 Leaf Gilder Sideboard: 15x storm crow

Now this deck has some punch to it. Hedron Archive is a good mana rock early and card drawing engine late game. And ulamog and ugin are great spells to ramp into that can go over the top of other slow decks you may face. Being in blue grants access to a plethora of counter magic, which can push the odds a bit in your favor versus other ramp strategies.

What this deck has a hard time against, though, is aggro. This is specifically true of atarka red, which can effectively combo kill someone by T5 or earlier. So that makes me a bit uncomfortable when deciding to play this deck. There are potential sideboard option to be had such as Dispel to counter the Temur Battle Rage or Jaddi Offshoot to be a blocker and gain some life, but ultimately this may be a deck that just folds to that strategy.


Next, I want to talk about the megamorph combo. Any green based deck right now is going to have to consider playing Den Protector and Deathmist Raptor due to the sheer power they provide. What's interesting is that UG also has a lot of other morph goodies and even some morph centric cards.

4 Rattleclaw Mystic 4 Den Protector 4 Deathmist Raptor 3 Sagu Mauler 3 Stratus Dancer 1 Ainok Survivalist 2 Secret Plans 4 Island 4 Forest 2 Lumbering Falls 2 Kiora, Master of the Depths 2 Yavimaya Coast 4 Woodland Wanderer 1 Canopy Vista 1 Cinder Glade 4 Flooded Strand 1 Prairie Stream 1 Sunken Hollow 4 Windswept Heath 4 Hangarback Walker 2 Horribly Awry 3 Reality Shift Sideboard: 15x storm crow

Stratus Dancer feels like a strong card versus sweepers if you can get it out there in time. And Sagu Mauler can be a HUGE beating as well as a true surprise. Remaining in blue means continued access to those counterspells , and Kiora even likes playing with raptors as mentioned before. It's possible that a deck with as much stealth as this one has could be built to catch your local metagame off guard and win mostly through dark horse tactics.


Lastly, I want to go back to the discussion on Kiora from earlier. Is there a shell that can play as an almost Kiora control deck? Much like old Kiora, this planeswalker provides a way to ramp as well as card advantage. Also like old Kiora, this one has a hard time protecting itself without creatures around. The fact that she shoves things into the grave means delving is a good way to take full advantage of her applications. Perhaps a deck that rides the line between midrange and control?

4 Rattleclaw Mystic 3 Den Protector 7 Island 5 Forest 2 Lumbering Falls 3 Kiora, Master of the Depths 3 Yavimaya Coast 4 Flooded Strand 4 Windswept Heath 4 Hangarback Walker 2 Horribly Awry 4 Dig Through Time 2 Clash of Wills 3 Scatter to the Winds 1 Dispel 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon 4 Silumgar's Scorn 4 Icefall Regent Sideboard: 15x storm crow

This deck looks a bit like a hodge podge. Usually that's a bad thing. That said, it feels like there's something to be said of the synergies present in these cards. Maybe splashing black will add enough incentive and removal to make this deck tick. This leads me to my next article. Next time, I plan on covering what certain splashes could do for UG in standard. Having light access to other colors opens up a world of possibilities that may push the archetype into competitive status.


I want to hear from you. What archetypes in UG do you like the most? Feel like I left something important out? (I probably did) Maybe you just want to discuss the lovely art on Halimar Tidecaller? Feedback is appreciated as always.

Until next time, may you never be mana screwed

---Spootyone---

This article is a follow-up to Spooty Decks Ep. 1 - Abzan Cats The next article in this series is Spooty decks: The State of Simic, pt II

GlistenerAgent says... #1

Yay Simic cards!

I'd say my favorite archetype in these colors is (shocker) Bant Megamorph. I like Ojutai in the shell, because it's quite a bit better than Wingmate Roc in control matchups. That said, your matchup against control may be good enough already that it's unnecessary.

Bant Dragons seems worth trying, but I think you need to be playing 4 Ojutai, some number of Dromoka and Stasis Snare and stuff. The removal is a bit spotty, but should be totally fine.

October 15, 2015 10:53 p.m.

Spootyone says... #2

Simic cards, indeed!

I'm a big fan of Bant Megamorph as well. I think the Megamorph combo is a solid place to begin at when constructing any green deck right now. GW Megamorph seems like it will be a mainstay until another set comes out and maybe even past that, but I'd love to pioneer a strictly UG version of the build.

I think the big question with that sort of deck is how much removal and other non-creature cards to play, as well as which ones. That's something I'm really grinding hard on trying to figure out.

October 15, 2015 11:33 p.m.

MurderHood says... #3

You could always go the Green//Blue steal your cards route with Willbreaker, and Kiora, Master of the Depths, Rush of Ice and Bounding Krasis.

October 16, 2015 12:48 a.m.

wakawakawaka says... #4

I think for your ramp build you'd gain a lot by adding red. Dragonlord Atarka, Radiant Flames, and Rolling Thunder are all backbreaking against midrange.

October 16, 2015 3:24 a.m.

Frayace says... #5

One fun deck I've been working on is a Simic Tempo deck that uses must-answer threats like Managorger Hydra and Yasova Dragonclaw and cheap counters like Stubborn Denial and Dispel.


Hydra. Tempo. Playtest

Standard* Frayace

SCORE: 0 | 0 COMMENTS | 8 VIEWS


October 16, 2015 5:33 a.m.

Love the Storm Crow in side XD

October 16, 2015 9:42 a.m.

Leviathan102 says... #7

Seacoast Drake is strictly better than Storm Crow. But Storm Crow is still better. You might want some Camel in the sideboard.

October 16, 2015 12:29 p.m.

capriom85 says... #8

I love Simic,too. I had great success with a RTR/THS simic midrange beast. Unfortunately, since THS/KTR was a thing I have swapped over to Temur because UG in my opinion has lost a lot of key pieces that made it powerful. As mentioned above, I agree that it is in a star of teetering between competitive and not good at all at times. The aggro lacks enough low cost high payoff cards. The midrange/later game version lacks a consistent tollways get to the late game. I think UG has a good she'll but needs either the R, B, or W splash simply for removal sake. For instance R gives me Temur Charm which counters, is removal (better with all my deathtouch), and even a way to make aggro decks unable to block. Also gives me Savage Knuckleblade which is a creature on the level UG needed.

October 16, 2015 3:52 p.m.

Great read, Spootyone. I really enjoy reading through your thought process and how the deck has evolved. Keep up the good work!

GlistenerAgent, I've been trying out Bant Dragons myself, and it is very fun to pilot. The spotty removal you mentioned comes into play when removing non-creature permanents. Removing a flipped Jace is very hard when he comes down on T2. Even then, it's not unbeatable. I've had some good results in my testing, but I have yet to play against anything with Deathmist Raptors.

October 16, 2015 8:49 p.m.

jubale says... #10

I haven't found a UG build I'm happy with, but ideas are around. Surrak, the Hunt Caller into Torrent Elemental is a surprising beat. Add Become Immense for the double-combo of really hitting hard and recycling the Torrent Elemental.

I think UG has a huge problem with removal. One strong option is Roar of Challenge combined with Deathmist Raptor and Heir of the Wilds or any really big creature.

October 17, 2015 3:31 p.m.

Very interesting analysis of a deck and its potential evolutions. I'm not going to lie when I say that I wasn't very interested in this series, but this was a great read. Keep it up!!

As far as Simic goes, the huge glaring problem is the fact that it lacks removal. Also, I would strongly advise playing Heir of the Wilds in most of those versions as a four-of, as the deathtouch really kills some decks. Reality Shift in my experience is definitely not worth it, but you can compensate with Clutch of Currents or Rush of Ice (which is better??) which go well with the tempo idea.

October 17, 2015 4:08 p.m.

Spootyone says... #12

I'm glad to see everyone is enjoying the series! I've been working hard on continuing my testing and I've been getting ideas from watching the Pro Tour. I'd say you can expect the next episode this week.

October 17, 2015 9:33 p.m.

Quicksilver says... #13

Love the Angry Beavers reference <3

October 18, 2015 7:52 a.m.

Love the article

October 18, 2015 9:16 a.m.

Have a temur ghostfire build that might be fun to look at. when you look at splashing colors of course.

October 18, 2015 9:20 a.m.

JGMFC says... #16

I feel like the play with Simic right now is counters/Hardened Scales based. Deathmist Raptor, Undergrowth Champion, Hangarback Walker? Yikes. Also Skywriter goes from possibly a little underpowered to an undercosted card.

October 20, 2015 12:59 a.m.

HairyManBack says... #17

The bottom line for Simic is it's not bad... and not great, imo. Simic being my favorite colors I've been tweaking this build for weeks now:

Pure Simic

It's been mentioned the removal sucks. It does. The best options I could find was deathtouch/fighting and bounce. Heir of the Wilds seems to be a must. There's no other threatening 2 drops. I'm packing Epic Confrontation and Clutch of Currents for speed and value late game.

I want to do Surrak, the Hunt Caller and Torrent Elemental combo but I experienced a lack of removal (still). So I went with Icefall Regent. Somewhat the same. Also going pure green-blue allows one to run 4x Lumbering Falls, which has shown to be of great use in a deck teetering on competitive play and not-so-great design.

Still looking for one more Kiora, Master of the Depths for the Den Protector and Deathmist Raptor combo. Very good value.

Great article. It was just down my alley!

October 20, 2015 6:25 a.m.

micah1 says... #18

What do you put in to make the expanded decklists instead of just links? And would you know how to put a video on this?

October 22, 2015 12:46 a.m.

Luckyguyjack says... #19

First of all, I really enjoyed reading over this thread. Very well done. I noticed you mentioned Bounding Krasis, and I have made a deck with it as one of the key pieces. The deck is called "Blue Green Mockery," and it is a control/tempo build. Please check it out here: Blue-Green Mockery. Please comment and playtest it, and don't forget to upvote if you like it!!

October 22, 2015 5:39 p.m.

Nice job with the article again Spooty. Simic is ok in my book ;)

I'm also drawn to a lot of the tempo / flash cards like Bounding Krasis & Harbinger of the Tides but I've generally been adding a third color with my brews. Warden of the First Tree seems like the perfect pair to Hangarback for low-CMC punch that plays well with draw-go, and Bant seems like the best home for that route thanks to flexible cards like Dromoka's Command & Valorous Stance. BUG is obviously solid too & offers Rakshasa Deathdealer for another great tempo creature.

On to Simic though. Sadly I don't like any kind of ramp strategy right now without a one drop dork (and just horrible dorks in general outside of Rattleclaw). Control efforts are likely to fall short as well without access to something like Perilous Vault.

Therefore I feel like you'd either need to keep a pretty low curve and be fairly aggro or go with the good ol Deathmist-DP backbone for a midrange / flash-style deck.

For aggro, Stubborn Denial would be a very powerful answer to a lot of weaknesses so I'd want to enable it with Frost Walker, Yasova Dragonclaw, the mono G Surrak whose name currently eludes me, etc. Add in the solid Deathtouchers listed above and you would have a pretty good starting point. It would feel like Temur aggro but be a bit faster due to the easy lands and, as was mentioned already, you get to play 4 Lumbering Falls.

As for a midrange idea, I like a draw-go, heavy-counterspell with Deathmist-DP approach similar to the one you've already taken. Bounding Krasis seems at home here.

In either case, they would be good enough decks to hang and, as with anything that combines Blue with random homebrewery, definitely allow you the opportunity to outplay your opponent, who has no idea what your deck contains.

October 26, 2015 4:18 a.m.

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