Spooty decks: The State of Simic, pt II
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Spootyone
27 October 2015
1944 views
27 October 2015
1944 views
Hello all!
Welcome back to Spooty decks, where I discuss brews and other deck ideas that have found their way into my head like eldrazi scions to a...Fen? To “blight” it? I don’t know, man, cut me some slack. Do you realize how hard it is to play dozens of games where your deck is focused on Blue and Green? Oh you don’t? Oh. Well then I’ll stop babbling and teach you something about the world of wet Zendikari grass.
4x Avatar of the Resolute 1x Beastcaller Savant 1x Canopy Vista 1x Cinder Glade 4x Deathmist Raptor 4x Den Protector 2x Dig Through Time 1x Dispel 3x Disperse 4x Flooded Strand 5x Forest 4x Hangarback Walker 2x Icefall Regent 3x Island 2x Kiora, Master of the Depths 1x Lumbering Falls 2x Prairie Stream 4x Rattleclaw Mystic 4x Windswept Heath 2x Wooded Foothills 4x Woodland Wanderer 2x Yavimaya Coast Sideboard: 2x Disdainful Stroke 3x Dispel 1x Evolutionary Leap 2x Exert Influence 2x Greenwarden of Murasa 1x Negate 2x Sagu Mauler 2x Stratus Dancer
Here’s the latest version of my Simic deck that I introduced to you last week. You may notice some large changes that were made to the deck since then, so let’s go over some of those now.
The Pro Tour has come and gone now and the new metagame is out. And the new metagame is...well, not that different from the previous metagame. I was truly hoping to see more variance in deck choices going into things this week and it unfortunately seems like my choices are just as limited as they were previously. For a base green deck, I would say your options generally come down to two choices: Go big (Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger), or go home (Den Protector). Convenient how that works out, isn’t it?
Allow me to explain. See, green has a fundamental issue right now of having a strong path, but not many others that reach the same sort of power level. I’m talking, of course, about Den Protector and Deathmist Raptor. This combination of cards provides tremendous amounts of attrition-based power, which beats out nearly any deck looking to win via 1-for-1s. Almost anything else you try to do in a base green deck fails to reach the amount of strength that an engine such as the “Megamorph Combo” can provide, and this can be a bit stifling when trying to build out a base green list.
The only exception I’ve found to this is making use of the one thing green has that other colors do not: ramp. Well, okay, I guess you can run Hedron Archive or Oblivion Sower in any list, but you get what I’m saying. Green is the only color that can make good use of cards like as Rattleclaw Mystic, Leaf Gilder, and Beastcaller Savant to ramp into large and oppressive creatures -- so oppressive, in fact, that they are able to be worth running over the Megamorph Combo. This is where Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger comes into play.
However, there are a couple problems with this sort of strategy (spoilers!), and I will address these later. For now, allow me to redirect your attention back to the above decklist.
I have decided that the strongest thing a base green deck can do is focus primarily on the Megamorph combo, and as such, I have changed my build to accompany this mindset. Hangarback Walker is just as “auto-include” as always, so it remains in the list. Avatar of the Resolute is tech that I gleaned from Michael Majors’ new version of GW Megamorph. This card is a necessary evil to have against cards like Mantis Rider, which are incredibly prevalent at the moment. It so happens that we gain an additional bonus to this card if we get it out after a Woodland Wanderer, so that’s nice. Lastly, I have a couple copies of Icefall Regent now. I...have no idea if the card is good, or necessary, or correct. I feel like the creature base needed a top end, and there honestly weren’t a ton of good options for a base UG deck. I also have been toying around with Woodland Bellower in that slot. Again, I’m not too sure what should be there.
As for the rest of the deck, I figured I would need to take more advantage of being in blue. I added Dig Through Time to see if I could find some benefit of the synergy it has with Kiora. I felt like the deck had little to no game versus cards like jace and Hangarback, so I added in disperse as a means of slowing the game down a bit more so we don't get completely out tempo'd .
Ultimately, things still feel... Mediocre. The deck just isn't doing the same powerful things that other decks are, so I think it's time that we explore splashing a third color.
So, let’s begin with splashing red. It’s just about the most simple of the splashes in my opinion, but also may prove to be the weakest after testing.
4x Deathmist Raptor 4x Den protector 4x hangarback walker 4x rattleclaw mystic 4x savage knuckleblade 4x woodland wanderer 2x dispel 2x disperse 3x fiery impulse 1x temur charm 2x wild slash 1x bloodstained mire 1x canopy vista 1x cinder glade 2x flooded strand 2x forest 2x island 2x lumbering falls 1x mountain 1x polluted delta 2x prairie stream 4x windswept heath 4x wooded foothills 2x yavimaya coast 1x radiant flames Sideboard: 2x icefall regent 2x stratus dancer 3x disdainful stroke 1x dispel 1x negate 1x rending volley 2x kiora, master of the depths 2x exert influence 1x radiant flames
By splashing red, we gain a much more aggressive creature by in adding Savage Knuckleblade. We can also make great use of Rattleclaw Mystic and continue making Woodland Wanderer a powerful top end. However, the most important reason to splash red is for removal. Both Fiery Impulse and Wild Slash are great early removal options to help out our game versus cards like Jace and Hangarback. Additionally, we could play cards like Radiant Flames and Rending Volley as tech options.
I’m not quite sure how I feel about this list. It’s one of those decklists that look good on paper, but in practice leave much to be desired. That may just mean things need to be refined, but I think what’s going on is that the deck wants to be RG with a blue splash instead of UG with a red splash. If we had access to Thunderbreak Regent and/or Draconic Roar, things improve tremendously.
Let’s try out a black splash.
4x Woodland Wanderer 4x Sidisi, Brood Tyrant 3x Catacomb Sifter 3x Deathmist Raptor 4x Den Protector 3x Murderous Cut 1x Sultai Charm 1x Dispel 3x Dig Through Time 4x Hangarback Walker 1x Disperse 4x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy 4x Polluted Delta 4x Windswept Heath 4x Wooded Foothills 1x Prairie Stream 2x Sunken Hollow 3x Island 3x Forest 1x Swamp 1x Canopy Vista 1x Smoldering Marsh 1x Lumbering Falls Sideboard: 2x Sultai Charm 2x Dispel 2x Negate 3x Self-Inflicted Wound 1x Sultai Ascendancy 2x Evolutionary Leap 3x Jaddi Offshoot
The black splash allows for two to three main directions of movement. The first of these is allowing for a splash of removal. Cards like Murderous Cut and Sultai Charm are great at dealing with opposing threats, and in many cases will gain you a nice tempo advantage by allowing you to play 2 impactful spells in a single turn. HOWEVER, I cannot stress enough how important it is to know your metagame before playing a card like Sultai Charm, or more importantly Ultimate Price. With the rise of Jeskai, Abzan (specifically with Wingmate Roc), and dragon decks, and the continued domination by resilient attrition strategies like those seen in Megamorph decks, this effect goes way down in power level. It may be some time before Sultai Charm sees the limelight against.
The other big direction one can go is to move towards a sacrifice strategy using cards like Catacomb Sifter. Being able to play some form of a grave-based strategy is also nice when you can play Sidisi, Brood Tyrant. However, the big problem with this sort of strategy is that if this is to just be a light black splash, we lose out on important cards like Smothering Abomination and Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip. Much like with splashing red, the deck feels like it would rather be a GB deck splashing blue rather than a GU deck splashing black. I’m guessing you’re beginning to see the trend here...
There is, however, one redeeming deck archetype I found in looking:
4x Opulent Palace 4x Polluted Delta 2x Sunken Hollow 3x Dragonlord Silumgar 4x Icefall Regent 1x Silumgar, the Drifting Death 1x Silumgar's Command 4x Silumgar's Scorn 3x Foul-Tongue Invocation 2x Sultai Charm 3x Dig Through Time 2x Dispel 4x Den Protector 3x Yavimaya Coast 3x Llanowar Wastes 1x Swamp 4x Island 3x Forest 2x Haven of the Spirit Dragon 4x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy 3x Scatter to the Winds Sideboard: 2x Sultai Charm 3x Duress 2x Disdainful Stroke 2x Self-Inflicted Wound 1x Foul-Tongue Invocation 3x Deathmist Raptor 1x Negate 1x Dragonlord's Prerogative
Dragons! You don’t really need heavy black mana to play a UB dragons shell necessarily, and this means You can play a base UG deck with the black splash for enough dragons and “dragons matter” spells to make it work. Or at least I think this would work. You’ve got a green splash to make use of Den Protector and Sultai Charm, and access to the Megamorph combo after sideboarding. Well, it’s a thought at least.
Alright, let’s try the white splash.
3x Den Protector 3x Dragonlord Dromoka 3x Silkwrap 4x Icefall Regent 4x Silumgar's Scorn 2x Ojutai's Command 4x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy 2x Scatter to the Winds 3x Dig Through Time 2x Dispel 1x Disperse 3x Bounding Krasis 3x Haven of the Spirit Dragon 4x Windswept Heath 4x Flooded Strand 4x Wooded Foothills 1x Canopy Vista 2x Prairie Stream 4x Island 3x Forest 1x Plains Sideboard: 1x Silkwrap 2x Disdainful Stroke 2x Dragonlord's Prerogative 2x Scatter to the Winds 1x Negate 1x Dispel 3x Deathmist Raptor 1x Den Protector 2x Kiora, Master of the Depths
Once again, I find myself gravitating towards a control dragons archetype. I think this is because one of the main things I have noticed about blue is that nearly all of its main power cards can really only be taken advantage of in a control deck. These cards are Silumgar's Scorn, Dig Through Time, and jace,vryn’s prodigy. Jace kind of fits in other shells, too, but you get my point. Come to think of it, I probably could have used the same Ug dragons shell to make my Temur list, and instead ran Dragonlord Atarka. That said, the deck would still want to be base GR.
This deck has the natural tendency towards a better mana base due to it being a shard as opposed to a wedge. This means we can play upwards of 12 fetchlands, and then the Dig Through Times also get better as a result. Also, I added Bounding Krasis to this list. There are a bit less advantageous spell available here so I had some extra slots, and Bounding Krasis is nice to have as a trick. Being able to hold up mana for Scatter to the Winds and not lose that turn when your opponent chooses not to play into it is great. And having access to Silkwrap is practically a must with all the Mantis Rider, Hangarback Walker, and jace, vryn’s prodigy running around.
So what is my verdict for these decks? Well, they’re better than the previous ones we discussed. But the problem I’m seeing is still here: WOTC doesn’t seem to know what they want for the UG color combo. That, or what they decided they wanted for it just isn’t at all viable right now. What was the UG archetype from BFZ limited? It’s hard to say. Converge? I’m sorry, but 5-color is NOT a 2-color archetype. Allies? I’d say not, given the fact that BW, GW, and RW all already have that archetype. In fact, if green is to be an ally deck, it usually needs to be more than just two colors.
Are they trying to push UG towards ramp in standard? Because if so, Crackling Doom has a BIG thing to say about that. I don’t care that Ulamog is indestructible if I have to sacrifice him. And that’s if you even get to cast the dude in the first place. It truly feels like UG-focused decks are in a bad place at the moment, and this is very visible when you try to splash a third color, because you always feel greatly pulled to focus more on the splashed color than the base ones. Maybe UG just needs to wait until Oath of the Gatewatch to have a chance in the limelight.
I’m going to leave you with one last decklist I came up with while messing around with thoughts
4x hangarback walker 4x woodland wanderer 3x icefall regent 3x dragonlord ojutai 1x dragonlord dromoka 2x sagu mauler 4x den protector 2x arashin cleric 4x silumgar’s scorn 4x silkwrap 2x dromoka’s command 1x dispel 4x windswept heath 4x flooded strand 2x wooded foothills 2x haven of the spirit dragon 1x canopy vista 2x prairie stream 6x island 2x forest 1x plains 2x yavimaya coast Sideboard: 2x dragonlord dromoka 2x dragonlord’s prerogative 2x dromoka’s command 2x arashin cleric 2x dispel 3x deathmist raptor 2x valorous stance
Alright so the idea I had when I came up with this list was that I hate Crackling Doom and want it to die because it makes all my awesome late game cards die for cheap. Well, if they have half a million things they need to hit with it then maybe it will be stressed too far for me to care. This is the similar mentality that enchantment-centric decks had towards Dromoka's Command. “they only have 4 of them at most”. I have no idea whether or not this list has merit, but it’s here anyway. Enjoy!
That’s it for me this time around. I think that just about covers UG in standard as well, for the time being. I want Kiora to work, but I think she is missing a good archetype to fit in where she isn’t just lackluster, similar to how Narset Transcendent has felt during her time here is standard, or how Sarkhan Unbroken has felt as well. We can’t all be Jace or Gideon right?
Until next time, may you never be mana screwed!
Warlokthegreat says... #2
interesting... What are your opinions on Eldrazi Mill? I like to see this kind of in-depth thought around deck types. here is my eldrazi mill if you want a look;http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ulamill-the-ceaseless-mill/Call it shameless but i am in love with Mill and really want it to shine, especially after Tarkir rotates.
October 27, 2015 10:41 p.m.
Warlokthegreat says... #3
I didn't know that links don't work XDjust search for 'Ulamill, the Ceaseless Mill' if you're interested at all. It's only weak to Delve, and even then It usually a decent game due to exile effects.
October 27, 2015 10:50 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #4
Interesting article again, but I think a lot more could be developed in the graveyard/Sultai deck. For one, Hangarback Walker is hardly necessary, and I feel that the deck should go more in a direction of kill threat --> delve for a bigger threat. So like drop a Gather the Pack (another very underrated card), Sultai Charm or Languish to clear the field, then delve into a Gurmag Angler or Tasigur, the Golden Fang for cheap, keeping mana open for a Dispel for that inevitable Crackling Doom. That deck seems that it could be explored a lot more now that a lot of grave hate is gone.
October 27, 2015 11:18 p.m.
Good read! Will you ever be playtesting against other decks like in your previous series?
October 28, 2015 12:21 a.m.
Kalibroxin says... #6
When I read the first article, I agreed with a lot of what was said, and disagreed with some of it as well. I was excited to read part 2. I have to say tho, I was kinda let down. I was expecting additional information to help other players figure out how to play a Simic deck, but instead I find an article dedicated to splashing an additional color. This is a bit upsetting. So since the information that I was looking for seems to be omitted, I will provide some of the information for you.
Simic is not the color combination that you want to play if you want hard removal. Simic is also not the color combination you want to play if you want total control, or an extremely fast beatbown.
Simic IS the color combination if you want to pull a fast one on your opponent, or make the unexpected play. A lot of players who attempt to play Simic fail simply because they are trying to make Simic do the same things as the other color combinations.
Simic shares a lot of keywords with other decks, with the most predominant being Morph, Megamorph, and Delve. You can't look at these keywords, build a Simic deck, and expect the same results that you would have while playing their 3-color counterpart, or in the case of Megamorph, GW simply does a better job against the current meta.
Simic doesn't offer the same caliber of removal as the other colors, because Simic has never really wanted to handle creatures the normal way. Tapping creatures down, bouncing them, turning them into other creatures, or stealing them is what you should expect from a Simic deck. You have to have this mindset from the very beginning, or you will get very frustrated while attempting a Simic deck.
For a Simic player, as far as sheer power, the current Standard sets appear to not have a lot to offer to the naked eye. You see cards like Kiora, Master of the Depths and think to yourself, "Do Simic players finally have the powerful card they've been looking for?". The short answer is "no". The longer answer is "no, unless someone figures out how to fit her into a deck that will synergize with her.". By herself, Kiora is not nearly on the same power level as Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Most players are disappointed by this, but the fact is, as a Simic player, I was never looking for an all-mighty card that will end the game on its own like Gideon does. I was looking for a card that will synergize with my decks to help with my consistency. I could not be happier with the new Kiora. Here's the link to my deck:
Simic Megamorph (3-1, 4-0 in first two FNMs).
It has performed exceptionally well, and I am still playtesting it to no end.
Magic is about figuring things out. Being part of the hobby for 21 years, I've gotten most of my joy from brewing, and building, rather than actually playing. I make mistakes, and I don't have all the answers, but I will tell you that if you want something to work properly, sometimes you have to sit in left field for a long time before things start to click. Even if you take an idea, or sit down with a deck that has been proven to work on numerous occasions, it doesn't mean you will be successful. The deck that I built took months to develop, and I did not have much success with it in the beginning. It doesn't have the "obvious" cards (Deathmist Raptor) that people think it should have, because the cards do not work as well as the cards I've put in. Just because the Den Protector/Deathmist Raptor combo is in "every" green morph deck, it doesn't mean it actually should be. Maybe there's something else that should be used instead of Deathmist Raptor, but people saw the power of it, and stopped looking.
My advice....never stop looking.
I hope that I have helped, but if not, just getting people thinking is good enough for me.
Thanks.
October 29, 2015 9:27 a.m.
Spootyone, I'm not sure how you managed to fit Disperse into so many of your decks. Pure bounce really isn't a powerful effect. In fact it's actual card disadvantage. While I understand the necessity for it in the strictly U/G list, the card quality is high enough in the three color lists you should probably stay away from it.
October 29, 2015 6:49 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #8
Thought I should post this here- someone at my LGS played a pretty sweet Simic Walkers brew on Wednesday. It had Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip, Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip, and Kiora, Master of the Depths. He also played a lot of ramp and basically won by chaining off Part the Waterveil with Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger as well for good measure. Mostly just used Fog effects and counters to stay alive prior to the ridiculous finish. Good stuff.
November 13, 2015 1:44 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #9
@tooTimid: Looks like the only decks that play 2 or more are Temur & straight Simic. Since these color combos don't offer the same removal options as White & Black for big creatures, and nothing particularly mainboardable for Enchantment removal, it's a reasonable play. Better to get another chance to counter it and take a 2-for-1 with some offsetting tempo advantage than to have no answer for something in game 1.
(I realize its a bit late to the party but just saw that after sharing my Simic story haha)
HairyManBack says... #1
Glad you decided to make another article for this Simic fan.
I was very happy with your first deck here - the pure Simic.
Though I wasn't hip on the other decks I did like your first Sultai--a lot. Immediately, I thought, "Why isn't he running Kiora, Master of the Depths?" Seems like she does everything for this deck. I figured you put good thought into it. I'd really like to try out this build. It's been a bitch getting a full set of Den Protector and Hangarback Walker though! :/ Good job!
October 27, 2015 10:09 p.m.