Why Cryptic Command is bad in Commander
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Arvail
27 February 2016
7164 views
27 February 2016
7164 views
Look at this beautiful card:
After Cryptic Command *list* was released in Lorwyn, it took standard by storm as Faerie decks everywhere crammed four copies into their mainboards and went on to dominate the meta. Since then, the card has cemented itself as a mainstay of blue decks in both Modern and Commander. The infamous "Counter-Draw" selection makes it a powerful counterspell while also generating card advantage. In addition, Cryptic Command *list* offers other modes with situational utility. Few things get blue players more excited than a combination of these things. The card also sports lovely art by the recently-deceased Wayne England. All these things have built up quite the reputation for Cryptic Command *list*. Today, it stands widely regarded as one of the finest counterspells in all of magic.
What's not to love about it?
Well, nothing really. As long as you're playing Cryptic Command *list* in Modern, it's a terrific card and stands out as one of the few truly outstanding blue cards in the entire format. Even so, I strongly believe that Cryptic Command *list* is bad in Commander. Hold the pitchforks! I don't want to Burn at the Stake! Let me cover some ground first.
For those of you who aren't familiar with edhrec.com, it's a website that gathers aggregate data about Commander decks from various sources - mainly TappedOut - and organizes it so that players can look at which cards commonly occur in conjunction with other deck choices and generals. In addition, edhrec.com also tracks the number of unique times a card has appeared in a deck. At the time of writing, the site has registered 19,254 different decks. The website is a nifty little tool for deck construction (but shouldn't be relied on too heavily). Here's a list of a few commonly played counterspells and the number of times edhrec.com has registered them in a unique deck:
- Counterspell - 6569
- Dissipate - 2793
- Cryptic Command *list* - 2151
- Rewind - 2080
- Arcane Denial - 1964
- Negate - 1883
- Dissolve - 1852
I believe it's pretty safe to say that the numbers you see above can be mostly attributed to low- and mid-level EDH players who account for much of the player base. The "average" Commander player. After all, it's rare to see cards like Rewind in high-level decks and all of those cards can be purchased on a budget with the exception of Cryptic Command *list*.
I can't help but feel like Cryptic Command *list* sticks out like a sore thumb in that list. At $25, the card hardly fits budget lists, which means that a considerable amount of players believe that it's worth spending a significant amount of money to include this spell in their decks. This is pretty shocking when you realize that some of the greatest counterspells in Commander can be bought with chump change. As a community, we seem to place considerable weight on this card. This astonishes me as I think that Cryptic Command *list* qualifies as a rather mediocre card in Commander. Let me explain:
Cryptic Command struggles to find its place in a world like this for multiple reasons. The spell costs . This brings us to the first problem: the high converted mana cost (4 cmc). Leaving the required mana open to cast this spell requires significant commitment. Even when you do manage to pull it off, chances are that the majority of what you'll accomplish during that turn cycle will consist of that single Cryptic Command *list*. Maybe you're lucky and you manage to deploy a signet or some other two-drop because the game has advanced past its early stages. Even so, chances are that at least one of your opponents resolved some spells and advanced their positions. With the grand state of the game in mind, countering a spell and drawing a card isn't a particularly productive turn cycle. When you break the spell down you paid 2 mana to counter a spell, which is not entirely reasonable, and 2 mana to draw a card, which can be seen as unreasonable also. Cards like Preordain, Ponder, and Brainstorm can all dig further through the deck for less than 2 mana. Dispel, Swan Song, Spell Pierce can all counter spells for less than 2 mana.
Secondly, the saturation of the spell (3 ) makes it incredibly hard to cast for many decks. It is not particularly easy to hold open 3 islands at most reasonable points in the game as well as pay for other spells. Therefore you have to choose whether to hold open an awkward amount of mana for Cryptic Command *list* or to spend it elsewhere. Any card that puts you in this position is problematic. This can be addressed by fixing up a manabase with fetchlands, shocklands, and original dual-lands but this comes at a hefty life expense. which means that however you look at it Cryptic Command *list* requires you to make significant sacrifices in order to be playable.
Instead of using Cryptic Command *list*, imagine spending your turn cycle resolving a Skyshroud Claim. You ramp up with two extra lands, and pass the turn with two mana up. When one of your opponents casts a notable spell like Necropotence, you can answer it with a counterspell that's reasonably costed at two mana. That sequence of events was decent enough. Even so, you were still unable to prevent all of your opponents’ plays that turn cycle. They got to further their plans and resolve some spells. But that's okay because you were still able to make a productive move in addition to dealing with a spell that you deemed to be threatening. In terms of resource management, getting to a point where you can cast multiple spells per turn is important as it allows you to generate value and leverage your position from multiple angles. Therefore, the third issue with Cryptic Command *list* is that it requires a significant amount of mana investment, and after casting results in no improvement to your own board position. By spending the mana elsewhere it is possible to behave both actively and passively simultaneously, turning you from a purely passive player who only reacts to the opponent into a flexible player who can both produce their own threats and counter the opponents at the same time.
Alright, TheDevicer! I understand. Don't play Cryptic Command *list*. But what should I use then?
A good rule of thumb for counterspells in the format is to never pay more than two mana for one. Believe it or not, you actually have great options for counter magic outside of staples like Force of Will, Pact of Negation, Mana Drain, Counterspell, and Negate.
To begin with, there exists a handful of unconditional counters with a downside that cost . New players and members of low- to mid-level play often overlook them because the downsides of these cards make them appear unappealing to them. In particular, it's the counters that don't answer spells permanently that make some people cringe at these options. What these individuals aren't taking into account is that simply delaying opponents is valuable when it means not dying. Here are some excellent counters that fall in this category:
- Arcane Denial - This card results in a net loss of cards for you, but it answers a threat immediately. Just imagine pointing this thing at a Craterhoof Behemoth that's about to buff up a field full of creatures. Sure, your opponent will end up drawing cards at the next turn's upkeep, but those cards are unlikely to be as good as preventing a Craterhoof Behemoth from resolving. Not to mention that you're still drawing a card.
- Delay - Since putting three time counters on a commander places them out of the game for a considerable amount of time, most players will simply opt to return their commander to the command zone instead. In these cases, Delay functions as a strictly better Counterspell and can effectively Time Walk opponents. It's fantastic if people in your meta play spells or commanders that cost more than four mana. Delay also shines in fighting counter wars. It efficiently deals with your opponents' counterspells. The best part is that those time counters mean nothing because the suspended spell will be cast on their upkeep, a time when you can choose not to cast spells. The suspended spell will eventually resolve, but you'll have had plenty of time to react to it and prepare for that spell by that time.
- Remand - This card functions a bit like a compact Cryptic Command *list*. It's good for the same reasons: it's an unconditional counter that maintains card advantage. Be sure to target expensive spells with this to Time Walk people. Don't hold onto it unless you're preparing to fight against counters. Also, remember that you can even Remand your own spells to fish out counters from other people with this card.
- Memory Lapse - The downside of this card is significant and it fails to address the problem at hand permanently, but it's still an efficient method of preventing big-ticket spells from hitting the board. Point it at commanders or some other large threats.
In addition to these cards, you also have the ability to play some other notable counterspells:
- Dispel - The value of this card goes up the more competitive the decks you play against get. This thing shines in fighting against other counterspells. Still, if players in your group like playing control or have lots of instants, Dispel is great.
- Essence Scatter/Remove Soul - Lots of EDH groups are made up of players who like big creatures. In these cases, countering creatures is a simple and efficient way to deal with the things that might break your face in.
- Flusterstorm
- This card is the only non-affordable entry on this list. The reason I've included it here is that it only shows up 160 times in edhrec.com. Keep in mind that Flusterstorm counts itself. There's a reason this card is one of the most played cards in both Legacy and Vintage. When it comes to fighting counter wars, Flusterstorm reigns supreme. Keep in mind that this card is no Mana Leak. You may target various different spells with Flusterstorm's copies. If your group is growing increasingly competitive, start thinking about buying one of these. - Spell Pierce - Like Dispel, Spell Pierce is usually reserved to more competitive groups. Still, you can get lots of value from it if you're group plays noncreature strategies.
- Swan Song - When I saw this card spoiled in Theros, I immediately knew it was something special. In a format with a starting life total of 40 and a disproportionate amount of combo decks, a 2/2 flying body means very little. In most cases, Swan Song is almost a Negate for .
The cards I presented above are by no means your only options. What counterspells you should play is meta-dependent. Base your decisions on your player group.
What are your thoughts? Do you think I'm off the mark or is Cryptic Command a good counterspell? Do you enjoy playing it? If so, why? Do you think that the card is overvalued because of its reputation or is Cryptic Command's status well-deserved. These aren't rhetorical questions; let me know what you think in the comments below.
Alright, I've had my go. Now it's your turn.
Please don't hurt me.
JohnnyBaggins says... #2
I do generally agree with you in terms of Cryptic Command isn't the greatest counter spell in EDH. But it's not the greatest counter spell anywhere. And I aslo agree that your default "Counter, Draw" mode isn't that amazing in EDH. It's still Think Twice and Counterspell on one card, and a lot of players wouldn't mind having this option in their deck. But your article completely ignores the fact that Command has two further modes: Tap all creatures YOUR OPPONENTS control and Return target Permanent to its owners hand. Both of which are amazing. If I can tap my opponnent's creatures before they lethally attack me, I get the chance to resolve another Dig Through Time/Ancestral Visions and maybe find the sweeper I need. I might just open up their blocks for my last, lethal swing. It's not like 
-decks in commander are as much control-ish as they are in 60-card formats. I can easily see Roon or Brago win a game off the fact that all creatures they don't control are tapped. I can also see any Blue deck cheering to return a planeswalker that slippted through the cracks of their counterflurry. I agree with you. Cryptic Command isn't the best counterspell in EDH. It's still amazing, in my eyes - because of its versatility. I'd play it in every Blue deck.
Lastly, Swan Song doesn't counter planeswalkers. It's not almost a Negate. It's not.
February 27, 2016 8:29 a.m.
The_Dragonmaster says... #3
Yeah, I love the tapping of my opponents creatures and bouncing a creature combo. It's really fun. Even the counter-tap combo works extremely well.
February 27, 2016 8:53 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #4
Cryptic is good in commander. Why? It taps everyone's creatures. Everyone. It's super versatile.
February 27, 2016 9:01 a.m.
I have to disagree, every deck I've ever ran with a Cryptic Command in it has performed amazingly everytime I drop it, an example I can give is that one of my edh decks runs the ever oppressive Stasis, so tapping everyone's creatures under the effect of that enchantment is almost equivalent to a board wipe in that particular deck also the other 3 modes I still find useful like bouncing my Eternal Witness or grabbing the top card off of an enlightened or mystical tutor, and of course having a counterspell in hand never hurts, so yeah that's my two cents.
February 27, 2016 12:23 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #8
I do agree that Cryptic Command isn't the best in multicolored decks. However, in a mono-blue deck, it is relevant at almost all stages of the game after the first couple turns.
For example, let's say my commander is Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. I'll happily leave up mana on other people's turns, and use Cryptic's relevant modes. If not, I can flash in a creature.
Still, most of this is for more casual playgroups. In a competitive setting, Cryptic Command costs too much for it's effect. If the threats on the table are Hermit Druid, Doomsday, or Food Chain, it just costs too much to be useful.
February 27, 2016 3:01 p.m.
UpsetYoMama says... #9
Returning a permanent such as Avacyn, Angel of Hope to their owner's hand is priceless. I disagree with your evaluation of Remand, assuming you are talking about multiplayer commander.
I really feel you should have specified which type of format you're talking about. If it's 1v1 competitive, sure there are better options than Cryptic Command. It's just too expensive.
Like the others are saying, being able to tap down creatures is huge. I feel like you missed your evaluation of that ability on the card.
I do agree with you that there are some counterspells that are underplayed. I love Swan Song. The utility, the flavor, the cost...everything is on point with that card.
February 27, 2016 3:15 p.m.
miracleHat says... #10
You have mentioned casual/competitive/1v1 (not french)/multiplayer edh, so is this trying to cover all bases or focus on one of them? Also: mentioned above, Cryptic Command isn't always a counterspell, that is what makes the card so good. Yes a lot of the times it is a Dismiss, but it can singlehandedly stop an infinite combo and make you not die to regular damage by yourself.
Anyhow: this article was formatted great and your thoughts were very easy to understand.
February 27, 2016 3:26 p.m.
The article was written with various levels of multiplayer Commander in mind.
February 27, 2016 3:50 p.m.
I think this article should be renamed "Why Cryptic Command is bad in commander outside Mono-Blue"
Cryptic Command is great in mono blue, and countering a spell is the least used mode. Most mono-blue lists that i've seen that work well, including my own, work by using cards that lock the board down. Winter Orb, Rising Waters, Overburden, Tangle Wire, Stasis etc. Cards that slow your opponents down. However, while it's great that it slows your opponents down, they aren't great when you're trying to infinite combo. Playing Palinchron and High Tide / Deadeye Navigator doesn't work with Overburden. Isochron Scepter and Mystical Tutor can't go infinite with Beacon of Tomorrows if a Winter Orb effect is on the field. You NEED to have a couple versatile cards in your list that can bounce these cards at the end of an opponents turn so that you can go off. Cryptic Command is one of the most versatile, and a necessity.
Sometimes you need to stop someone else from going infinite with creatures, or from alpha striking your with multiple combat phases.
Sure, there are better counterspells. But if you're throwing Cryptic Command into your list to primarily use it as a counterspell, you're doing something wrong.
February 27, 2016 3:54 p.m. Edited.
The5lacker says... #13
You seem to have looked exclusively at the top and bottom abilities of this card.
February 27, 2016 4:13 p.m.
Cryptic Command's tap ability can and does end games. It's a counterspell and half of a win-con (the other half being a beefy board-state which many EDH decks can manage in their sleep). It's not a card I like playing for personal taste reasons, but that doesn't mean it's not amazing in it's own right. After the Twin-banning, I can actually see it migrating from Modern to EDH, but that's just speculation.
February 27, 2016 4:28 p.m.
While I own a Foil Cryptic Command I find that it just never seems to find a spot in my decks. The 4 CMC and the 3 is excessive for what it does.
I have to agree with you. I've been trying to trade mine off because it has high value but I never use it. There are better Counter options and it's other abilities just aren't that great. It's a very niche card that could do something but most of the time proves to be dead in hand.
Even in Mono-Blue it doesn't seem that great. It still has a ridiculously high CMC. It still, even in Mono-Blue, ends up dead in hand.
February 27, 2016 5:49 p.m.
I'm pretty happy with the discussion that this piece has generated so far.
I'd like to apologize for two things:
- I feel like I should have covered my thoughts on the bounce/tap modes of the card. Many of the comments so far hinge on these two modes.
- Relatedly, I must admit that coming from a primarily high-level background made me not appreciative enough of the tap mode since creature-based strategies are far less prevalent at higher levels of play.
My bad. With that out of the way, let's talk some more about Cryptic Command.
Tap all Creatures your Opponents Control
Things are a little different when we're talking about Cryptic Command on the offense as it makes your team unblockable. In this case, the card has more value than I gave it credit. Even so, I'm not convinced the card deserves its reputation (even in low- to mid-level play). If we're talking about the more common blue creature-based decks, we're probably dealing with generals like these ones:
- Brago, King Eternal
- Ezuri, Claw of Progress
- Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
- Marchesa, the Black Rose
- Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
- Roon of the Hidden Realm
- Animar, Soul of Elements
- Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
Although Cryptic Command gains value in these decks, I'd still be hesitant to include it. The points I made about leaving up lots of mana and wanting to further your board state still apply here. Some of the above decks tend to be more combo-centric starting at mid-levels of play, so they're less reliant on alpha strikes while others rely lots on built-in evasion. If you're including Cryptic Command in a deck primarily to grant offensive capabilities, it's a fine choice as long as your meta fits it and you're actually able to cast it.
Return Target Permanent to its Owner's Hand
I believe that situations where a Cavern of Souls or a similar card prevents you from countering the permanent that needs to be bounced aren't regular enough to warrant paying the additional as long as we're thinking about the command in terms of a counterspell. The opportunity cost here isn't insignificant. It's also worth noting that if we're talking about not dying to combos, it's really the counter mode that will save your hide more than the bounce one. Of all the modes on the command, this is the one I value the least
As for the situation presented by kyuuri117, I actually have quite a lot to say about it. Still, I feel as thought that deck is rather specific and isn't representative enough to warrant discussion - at least not here.
I hope that makes up a little bit for not including my thoughts about the other two modes in the OP. Again, I'm sorry for not fully taking those things into consideration.
February 27, 2016 7:04 p.m.
_SeriosSkies_ says... #17
It's not just good in mono blue. I run it in esper and it's one of the top 4 cards In the deck. Versatility in commander is VERY strong.
February 27, 2016 7:11 p.m. Edited.
chickenwarriors says... #18
Most decks I have seen that uses a good mount of counters in their edh deck normally have ways to get them back from the graveyard. This way the spell gets more then one use!
February 27, 2016 8:57 p.m.
zyphermage says... #19
Your reasoning behind good counterspells is correct in 60 card decks and even edh to some extent. But you are ignoring that cryptic command isn't run for its cost obviously. It is the most versatile counter ever printed.
February 27, 2016 10:44 p.m.
I understand that these aren't the most competitive options, as they cost 3, but I've had good results with Voidslime and Render Silent. The deck I use them in is typically trying to flash things in so I have mana open anyways, and the ability to counter a cycled Decree of Annihilation or Chainer, Dementia Master ability is a huge boon. Render Silent is always gnarly when it resolves, and the ensuing counter war can drain the mana they would have used on their turn anyways,
February 28, 2016 12:10 a.m.
Cryptic Command is my favorite EDH counter and IMO is the best counter to ensure you can continue playing the game.
With regards to tapping things down, yes your opponent's have different untap steps however more often than not I am only ever worried about one opponent at a time.
The other thing is the card has great synergy with the following cards.
Ajani Vengeant
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Static Orb
Storage Matrix
Meekstone
Smoke
I guess what I'm trying to say is the card is considerably better in 
prison decks.
Also I will never, ever, ever help opponent's draw cards in commander. All it does is make it harder for a prison (or stax) deck to get the opponent to the point of no return. If I just wanted to play contol for a few rounds and then play a game ending card then it might be acceptable but for strategies revolving around making resources useless or denying them entirely (prison & stax respectively) letting the opponent draw a card is the last thing you want to do. It'd be like playing Goblin Guide in a land destruction deck.
February 28, 2016 4:41 a.m.
mtghypatia says... #22
I totally agree with you. But this applies only to multiplayer commander, Cryptic Command is still great in duel-commander :)
Also, the ability to tap all your enemie's creatures is not so great when there are two other players to address.
February 28, 2016 11:08 a.m. Edited.
HarbingerJK says... #23
I get what you're saying, but I disagree, especially with castablitiy (if no one has claimed that as a word yet, I do now). Have you ever actually played a game of EDH? By the time the game's over I have more lands on the board than what's left in my library. Cryptic is expensive to cast, sure, but I don't think anyone puts it their decking thinking about playing it in the early game. Disclaimer: my EDH deck is Talrand, very dedicated permission deck.
February 28, 2016 12:26 p.m.
I mean a lot of people really value the 2-mana counterspells because for some, EDH games can easily be over by 5 turns maximum.
Even if you are playing at a low to mid level then significant stuff happens on T2 and T3 that you can't hit with Cryptic Command.
I don't know whether i think the card is actually good or bad. I can see both sides of the argument but it does have definitive downsides.
February 28, 2016 12:38 p.m.
Heh, where to begin?
I'll start by saying I'm basing this off a mono-Blue deck I run, Combo Through Draw, Azami Control which does run Cryptic Command. Your results vary compared to mine, but I will stress that it's overall a great feeling whenever I resolve a Cryptic Command.
Why?
Mode 1 - Dismiss - Definitely a standard. Countering someone's spell and netting another Wizard is worth 4 mana for me, because I will just draw another card later. If I draw another counterspell, it means I've got more fuel for the fire - or more ways to fight. This is normal, and not worth $40 by itself until you consider the following:
Mode 2 - Instant speed Sleep + Draw a Card - Also a standard. It taps all opponents creatures down, and keeps you alive for a turn, as later update comments mention. However, I don't think you understand the power of that when sometimes, all you need to do is prevent one person from attacking you. Think of it as an insurance policy - you have 19 life, and you have a token deck with 20 tokens online (boy, you're really bad at Blue!), who wants to kill you now. Before combat, you can tap them all down, and draw a card. Value!
Mode 3 - Boomerang + Cantrip - Sad because an opponent is powering though your Stax effects? Want to make that early resolved Extraplanar Lens harder for your opponent? Oh hey Combust coming for Azami, Lady of Scrolls... all of those things now don't matter if the target is invalid or in a hand. It also breaks combos too - bounce Power Artifact to your opponent's hand in response to the untap trigger of Basalt Monolith. Bounce Mike in response to the Reanimate for Trisk.
What? There's More?
Mode 4 - Sleep + Boomerang - As stated before, Sleep isn't used to stop everyone - it's to buy you a turn. And then you can bounce the one thing that can kill you during that next opponent's turn. Did we just buy two turns for one card? Yes we did!
Mode 5 - Counterspell + Boomerang - The only mode I've not mentioned until now, because it's the mode that has people hating you the most. But it's value sometimes - bouncing a creature that would kill you if a pump resolves, or countering something, then Bouncing Mana Reflection? Sure, not it's strongest mode - but it's an option. And it's printed on the card to be chosen.
Mode 6 - Counterspell + Sleep - As stated above, sometimes we need to just stop one attack. My friend runs an Phyrexian Ezuri list that after a while of ramping, Overrun. Wouldn't it be more painful for them if they can't attack this turn and that Overrun just... didn't happen?
And this is in Mono-Blue. Effectively, Cryptic Command is four cards in one - you don't play it early game, to that, we have other counterspells like Force of Will, Arcane Denial, etc etc etc. But anytime after you drop your fourth land, Cryptic Command generates something a lot of the things you acknowledge as good don't do - constant value. You have six different modes all in one card, all relevant at different points in the game. Once it can be cast, Cryptic Command easily becomes an amazing card in the right situation.
Much to Modern's effect, having options is a good thing. Having all the options you want, printed on one card when you can only run 99? It's worth every penny, all the way to the bank. Think of Cryptic Command as your insurance policy you signed to have your family covered in case you die. Think of it as four cards jammed into one, all of which by themselves do work - but together, resolving in one card, makes it worth 
.
Sure, it's not perfect. No spell is, well minus one... But the fact you have six options, all valid, all the right play, makes Cryptic Command worth running, at the very least, in mono-Blue. I can't speak for Esper, or Dimir, or anything like that - but I can say I don't ever hate resolving Cryptic Commands against those who shun Blue.
February 28, 2016 2:28 p.m.
RussischerZar says... #26
I remember there was once a board with a Precursor Golem plus companions from player A which player B used a kicked Rite of Replication on. Player C then cast Cryptic Command in draw+bounce mode on one of the golems.
Suffice to say it took him a while to discard at end of turn.
February 29, 2016 6:42 a.m.
I will start by saying that Cryptic Command has saved my butt many times in Commander. The Sleep + Bounce effect is huge. Hell, all the modes are perfect. I will admit that it's not an instant include in any deck, but it fits in a ton of them. I have to disagree. Cryptic is by far one of the most powerful EDH cards in 's arsenal. 1 card does 4 modes that are all relevant to the format.
February 29, 2016 12:30 p.m.
TheDracogenius says... #29
I think that it is really depending on your deck wether Cryptic Command is good. In my Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind deck everything I do happens on instant speed and I need really versatile awnsers. Drawing a card has extra synergy with my commander, countering a thread is mediocer, bouncing a permanent that slipped through my counter wall is decent, especially since Avacyn, Angel of Hope is a general I have to deal with regulary and my deck would do anything to get Fog effects. Especially draw-go decks need this card for its upside, but every other deck would be better served with the options you list above. If your entire plan is to keep a counter wall up and your deck can support , it can easily be the best card in the deck. People tend to throw it into every shell, and especially for a card that has a high price tag this is generally not a good thing, neither for deckbuilding nor its price.
February 29, 2016 2:23 p.m.
Completely ignoring the Boomerang effect on Cryptic in your original post is a travesty of the highest order.
This mode states: "Return target PERMANENT to it's owner's hand."
I can't tell you the number of times i have used this mode in any of my commander decks to pull ahead for the win.
Bounce my Mimeoplasm to recast it targeting Skithiryx and Death's Shadow in gy.
Bounce Omniscience opponent cheated into play.
Bounce opponent's Avacyn, tap all their creatures, cast Sunblast Angel on my next turn.
Opponent has any hate in play preventing me from comboing: bounce that ish.
Etc, etc, etc.
If you have the money to put a Cryptic in your EDH deck, you should also have your lands on point. 6 of my 17 EDH decks run Cryptic and it is very rare that it's a dead card or un-castable.
I don't run Cryptic in my Vorel deck because half the lands produce colorless mana only. I run Cryptic in Maelstrom Wanderer because my lands are on point and it has a ton of mana dorks. Ramping into a ton of creatures and then countering my opponent's board wipe and tapping down their creatures with one spell so i can swing in for the win on the same turn is no joke.
I don't think this is a terribly well thought out post about the card.
I suppose if your main point was: "don't put Cryptic in your deck if your mana setup cannot accommodate it" then i can absolutely agree.
And frankly, if you are playing a mono blue deck and you aren't running Cryptic, you're already losing.
February 29, 2016 3:35 p.m.
atomic_moose says... #31
Your best argument in my opinion was here:
"Cards like Preordain, Ponder, and Brainstorm can all dig further through the deck for less than 2 mana. Dispel, Swan Song, Spell Pierce can all counter spells for less than 2 mana."
Cards that are not legal in modern are legal in commander. It is just a format thing, which you touched on a little. Solid argument.
However, I have seen Cryptic Command end games in commander more often than the "save yourself" route. It just gives so many options, and to most players that is very attractive in a singleton format.
February 29, 2016 3:48 p.m.
So, let me explain why I personally don't run Cryptic.
The real problem is that it takes 4 mana. True, the options are great, but if I'm sitting on a Counterspell, I only need to keep 2 mana open, and I have 2 more gas to play with per turn. That adds up to a lot of unused mana over the course of several turns. Cheaper CMC is way better.
The other problem is that other 4 CMC counterspells are REALLY powerful. Last Word and Counterflux are all uncounterable, and with Karoos, Rewind can color-fix for a follow-up with a NEGATIVE total mana used.
The last is a personal thing; I keep as many of my instants at or below 2 CMC for Isochron Scepter as I can, and I run a lot of tutoring. I don't want to have a decent answer in my hand; I want to have the perfect answer in my deck--and a way to get it out on time, of course.
I only put a few counterspells in my decks because my meta hates spammed counters. Cryptic has just never made the cut. It's good, but it's usually not the specific kind of good I'm looking for.
February 29, 2016 3:49 p.m.
Alright, i read all of the responses and OP's updates regarding the other two modes.
In severely competitive EDH decks, Cryptic is rarely my go to. One of my most competitive decks which i only play at tournaments (multiplayer, not French[French is not EDH IMO, it's 100 card singleton Legacy]) is Derevi. The deck plays 9 counter spells, none of which are Cryptic Command.
My Derevi deck does run Mana Drain, Force of Will, Pact of Negation, Voidslime, etc. and also boasts heavy weights like Mana Crypt, Gaeae's Cradle, Duals, etc.
I would not add Cryptic to this list as it is not 100% optimal for the deck based on how it plays and how it uses mana.
In my fully optimized competitive High Tide Talrand deck i do run Cryptic along with 17 other counter spells. The deck only runs 19 non-instant cards, of which 10 of them can pull a counter spell out of my deck or graveyard. In this deck i would never remove Cryptic as it is very unlikely that my opponent will ever win before turn 6 at which point i will be ready to combo or have enough mana to cast Cryptic whenever i like.
So, based off the assumption you are only talking about top tier competitive EDH (excluding French), your generalization stands fairly true that Cryptic is rarely optimal.
February 29, 2016 4:30 p.m.
I feel I have to repeat that I find Cryptic Command to be bad even in Mono-Blue. I keep seeing mentions of cards like Avacyn, Angel of Hope to justify Cryptic Command. I have to question, if you're playing Blue, especially if you're playing Mono-Blue, why did you let Avacyn resolve in the first place? Cheaper Counterspells are often the way to go. You can literally counter two spells, sometimes three, for the cost of casting Cryptic Command.
The purpose of Counterspells is to control the game. You are countering anything that will threaten your game plan. The other effects Cryptic Command offers do very little. If you are finding a use for them, like bouncing a card, why didn't you counter it? If you need to tap down a lot of creatures, why didn't you counter whatever generated all of those creatures?
If you are using Cryptic Command and are finding uses for the other modes, you simply aren't playing how you should be. Cryptic Command provides a delayed reaction.
In short, you should be countering stuff BEFORE it resolves, not after.
February 29, 2016 7:59 p.m. Edited.
miracleHat says... #35
In mono blue: you can counter nearly everything: except for lands. How are you supposed to 'counter' a Cavern of Souls, or Cabal Coffers, in mono blue?
Yes you can run Strip Mine Wasteland Ghost Quarter Tectonic Edge Encroaching Wastes Dust Bowl etc. but if those aren't avaliable or you already used them on the Cabal Coffers: Cryptic Command is a go to card.
February 29, 2016 10:01 p.m.
Negative, Cryptic Command is absolutely terrible for that. All they do is tap in response, cast what they can, then play it on their very next turn.
If you are using Cryptic Command to bounce lands, that's even worse than bouncing anything else. At least other stuff has a mana cost that forces your opponent to cast it again.
Lands are bad because your opponent can tap in response and do whatever they need too. If the land is already tapped, your opponent loses nothing. At this point, you're only slowing yourself down and still lose out on Countering other stuff. The cost doesn't justify the end result, especially when dealing with lands.
March 1, 2016 12:08 a.m.
I don't see why we can't let players who think it's good play it without changing their minds or trying to convince them it's bad. It's never "bad". It may be mediocre compared to like cards but saying its "bad" is just silly.
March 1, 2016 12:14 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #38
I ever only liked C-Command in a Narset deck. The ability to tap all there creatures before blockers while also drawing a card was nice - or just to counter a spell if they want to counter one of yours.
March 1, 2016 10:55 a.m.
DrFunk27 - I don't think anyone is advocating a line where people must/can't play Cryptic Command. Still, having a conversation about the value/viability of such a popular is interesting. I'm legitimately interested in opinions on the matter as they seem to be split quite heavily.
March 1, 2016 11:23 a.m.
TheDevicer Agreed -- it is 50/50. I just don't think anyone can blatantly say it's a BAD card, when it's really not.
March 1, 2016 11:28 a.m.
I was actually saying that using Cryptic Command to bounce lands is bad. I think that is where we may have gotten confused.
Cryptic Command by itself isn't necessarily a bad card, but to use it to bounce lands is a bad play. I say this because the 4 CMC and the cost of 3 to bounce a land is a play that provides no value at high cost.
In my original post I said I believe Cryptic Command is very niche. I prefer to find and use cards that provide more value. I find similar effects for lower cost to be better.
March 1, 2016 11:59 a.m.
iAzire Ok ;) That's what confused me. Bouncing a Raging Ravine isn't terrible btw, but that's like 1 land out of hundreds. lol
March 1, 2016 12:06 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #43
In more casual settings, bouncing a bounceland or a land like Scorched Ruins is value.
March 1, 2016 12:13 p.m.
lakebottom says... #44
I believe Ertai's Meddling is underrated at higher levels of play. It beats Cavern of Souls and suchlike, and has almost all of the appeal of Delay. If you are comboing out before turn 6, exiling a disruptive spell for one turn is fantastic. I have often considered pulling Counterspell for it, to lessen a stringent color requirement.
March 1, 2016 7:46 p.m.
ArantirTheDestroyer says... #45
I'm going to mention you here, TheDevicer, simply because I want to hear your opinions on this.
One of the things I like about Cryptic Command is its versatility. In fact, in actual EDH games where I run Jori En's Relics (My main EDH deck)*, I more often use it to respond to a potentially dangerous combat by tapping their creatures or to dig for other answers. I like the same thing about the only other "counterspell" I run in that deck, Mystic Confluence: it can be adapted to suit my needs at any given point in the game.
I sometimes even use Command or Confluence to play politics, and, if I recall correctly, I've twice played kingmaker with them: I can offer to remove a threat for somebody other than myself, in return for, say, a free attack to get a Stolen Identity off.
All in all, I think it's not merely the counterspell aspect of those cards that makes them valuable, it's their ability to adapt to different boardstates, reacting in different ways depending on the situation, that makes them valuable.
*Shameless self-promotion aside, I'd love to get your opinion on my deck!
March 1, 2016 8:12 p.m.
ArantirTheDestroyer says... #46
Oh, also: While this is a rarity, I completely gained control of the entire game once with Cryptic Command.
Turns out Cryptic Command is EXTREMELY dangerous when the caster has Tamiyo, the Moon Sage's emblem. I was able to stop combat by tapping down my opponents' creatures and bounce their main threats, then counter them on the way back down. This was back when I ran Experiment Kraj infinite combo, so needless to say I comboed off and killed everyone within a few turn cycles.
March 1, 2016 8:16 p.m.
@ArantirTheDestroyer - I've been following the comments closely. I just don't want the conversation to turn into nothing more than me defending the points I've made above. Still, since you requested my opinion, I'll be a little less hands-off here.
The command has value; there's no denying that. However, I'm concerned about the opportunity cost involved in playing it. The cases that keep getting brought up are ones where people have failed to adequately control what permanents have hit the field. The board board now looks threatening and the command can have a huge albeit momentary impact on the game.
Considering the incredibly high mana curve your deck runs and its general lack of reactivity, I can see you playing in a rather slow meta shaped primarily by battlecruiser magic.
In these cases, the command is fine. It does quite a bit for one card and your meta is slow enough that you're rarely under pressure early on. Your games develop slowly and few people generate winning positions before turn 5.
The situations you're encountering where you see the command doing work for you are a reflection of your deck design and your player group. I don't want this to sound like you get more value from Cryptic Command than I do since your deck is bad.
Still, that's not all that far from the truth if I'm honest. If the pace of play in your group were faster, your deck would likely crumble quite quickly. It's inability to react to threats being deployed makes it susceptible to losing before it can drop fatties - with or without the command.
Playing a lower curve with more reactive cards would not only allow you to benefit more from your commander, but it would open the door for you to answer threats in a timely fashion. It's clear that your deck doesn't seek to control the pace of play. As a result, you're not experiencing moments where you'd rather have a more efficient card. You're probably more than happy to sit on the command even if an opponent plays a spell you could counter. After all, it's one of your few reactive cards and its value grows as the game goes on.
March 1, 2016 8:53 p.m.
So what you're saying is that cryptic command command is good in those situations where the blue deck has failed to do what it should have been doing?
March 2, 2016 4:17 a.m.
_SeriosSkies_ says... #49
You can't catch everything with counterspells in multi-player. If you could, no one would play anything other than mono blue denial.
Need to counter a thing, it does it. Innifiently, but it's a choice.
Need to tap down the swarm deck you pissed off earlier? Boom covered.
That Walker about to pop? Boom answer.
Only need to do one of the three already mentioned? Add a cantrip to it.
March 2, 2016 4:59 a.m.
Cryptic Command's cantrip effect is probably the most useless part. If you're in blue deep enough to pay THREE saturation, you pretty much have access to all of magic's card draw and should never be lacking for cards.
The usefulness of a cantrip is in proportion to the CMC of a card and how good it's color is at drawing cards. Quicken and Gitaxian Probe are decent cantrips because their dirt-low mana cost complements an effect, but Shelter is an amazing cantrip, not because the card itself has good value, but white typically needs all the card draw it can get.
March 2, 2016 9:27 a.m.
That sounds about right. Cryptic Command increases in value as the game progresses and the board gets more complicated.
Yes, it's impossible to answer everything your opponents play, but as long as your deck has a degree of reactive spells, you don't need to nor should you try to do so. It's logistically unfeasible and is often political suicide.
March 2, 2016 9:27 a.m.
MagmaArmor0 says... #52
It also is relevant to things that use cascade, or similar effects, like Maelstrom Wanderer, Narset, Enlightened Master, or Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge. Sometimes, you just need a counterspell that doesn't always counterspell.
March 3, 2016 2:39 a.m.
People are saying: "With 4 mana you can cast Boomerang and Counterspell, or Counterspell and Telling Time, or(...)". Yes, you could. But, you fail to think of it in terms of its versatility and card advantage. How often you needed a Boomerang and had a Counterspell on your hand? And how often you needed a Counterspell but had a Sleep in your hand. And how often you needed a Sleep and had Boomerang in your hand?
Cryptic Command is ONE CARD that does all of it. Boomerang doesn't help when your opponent is casting Armageddon. Sleep doesn't help you when your opponent is casting Abrupt Decay on your Winter Orb. Counterspell doesn't help you when your opponent is casting Narset with Cavern of Souls and some haste enabler. Cryptic is one card that can save you from all these situations (and much more situations). As long as you see it as a counterspell, it'll be mediocre. But if you see it as it really is, counter, bounce, tap, draw on a stick, you'll realize its really powerful.
It isn't just a counterspell, and most of all, it isn't an early game tool. For early game you should be playing Counterspell, Delay, Remand, etc. All of these are very good on what they do. Cryptic just doesn't fit this slot. Saying Cryptic Command is bad because Counterspell is like saying Austere Command is bad because Wrath of God.
March 4, 2016 10:41 a.m.
Tyrannosary says... #54
Cryptic Command is incredible in commander. There isn't a single useless effect on it. Drawing a card is never bad especially when you need to dig for that one card in your deck. It's tapping mode is also insane! It taps everybody's creatures but your own. The counter mode is awesome because you can counter any spell including when the opponent casts their commander. The bounce effect is also good and relevant, you could bounce anything whether it's a land, creature, artifact, or enchantment anyone controls. This card is awesome!
ChiefBell says... #1
TheDevicer
February 27, 2016 8:06 a.m.