mtgraphael Thanks for the feedback, I love this deck and have been working on it for a long time. So the ratio of Zulaport Cutthroat and Blood Artist is something I am still playing with. But as of now, there are more Zulas because its the one point of power comes up surprisingly often. I found myself sitting there wishing my Artist could attack with the team a lot more often than I found myself wishing I was getting triggers off their creatures dying too. I think a lot of the reason is because the reason they are good is generally because I am saccing creatures, more than having a lot of trades. We will see with more testing though, its not concrete. Oh, also Zula being human synergizes nicely for an extra damage with Falkenrath Aristocrat.
Bloodghast is something I thought a lot about. I found that while it gives you a lot of value over the longer game, it ultimately feels worse than Bloodsoaked Champion, which took its spot. They both are aggressive creatures, but your ability to machine gun off mid combat with Champion can be so powerful. Especially with Falkenrath because its another human. Its also cheaper to bring back with Liliana, Defiant Necromancer Flip and less harsh on the mana. And a lot of games will end around turn five, which only gives Bloodghast a few chances to come back where as Champion can do it instant speed basically whenever I want.
And I definitely agree on gravepact, I just changed the sideboard a bit to be better against control and combo. I am making it a one of in the sideboard. Against creature decks it becomes pretty ridiculous. It is basically a repeatable and basically one-sided boardwipe, but I do think it is often too expensive for the deck.
Now, Vexing Devil. That sounds pretty fun. Especially if I was running 4 Lili's. That would be some heat. Thanks for your input, this stuff is fun and always ends with he deck improving.
April 20, 2016 11:15 a.m.
Why not just cut Zulaport Cutthroat to 1 and up Blood Artist to 4?
April 23, 2016 12:30 p.m.
KaiserChronic: Basically, I originally ran more Blood Artists but I found myself wishing I could attack with it (even if only for one) than I found myself benefiting from the opponents creatures dying. Most of the creatures dying will by mine. Being able to get an extra +1/+1 counters on Falkenrath Aristocrat is also a nice extra perk of Zulaport Cutthroat.
I guess that in matches like control, combo, and tron, the extra damage of being able to attack with my 2 drop I get with Zulaport Cutthroat means more to me than the situation bonus triggers from Blood Artist would in matches like affinity, infect, or zoo. Does that make sense?
Its still something I am tinkering with, but this is what I have felt is optimal lately.
April 23, 2016 12:51 p.m.
Ahh makes sense, I didn't even think of the synergy with Falkenrath Aristocrat, seems like a good choice.
April 23, 2016 1:02 p.m.
KaiserChronic Thanks. I feel like its ability to turn a Falkenrath Aristocrat swing from 4 to 6 on its own is pretty huge. And thats only the secondary reason to play Zulaport Cutthroat. That aside, I still do like the 2 Blood Artists, for the off chance I can trade a ton of tokens or doomed travelers off with some weenies.
Feel free to try the deck, and let me know what you think. It even surprises me how powerful this thing can be. And damn is it fun, so many tricky interactions.
April 23, 2016 1:11 p.m.
I playtested with it a couple times, I like the deck. It's well thought out and pretty powerful, original too which is the #1 for me. I don't like all the copy-paste decks floating around out there
April 23, 2016 1:32 p.m.
KaiserChronic Appreciated. Netdecking is boring. I put a ton of work into this because I wanted something creative and unorthodox.
April 23, 2016 1:54 p.m.
LordDerrien says... #10
Hi, I saw your post on reddit and always loved to look at fellow Aristocrat players deck.
Your build looks very nice, but it has a few choices I do not really understand and in my opinion weaken the deck.
Not having a playset of Lingering Souls seems very counter-intuitive. This card alone can grind out wins and is amazing value, mana sink and sacrifice fodder. Actually everything this deck wants.
Path to Exile as a one-of. While I can understand not playing the whole playset, at least two of this 'get rid of it for good' speel should be included. Maybe do a 3 - 2 split with Lightning Bolt. I know it is heresy to say this about Lightning Bolt, but for me at least it works. Preference, I guess.
Absence of Rally the Ancestors. This is in my opinion a grave mistake, because it allows the deck to win out of the blue with a single destructive turn. Not only for shooting damage with resurected creatures through Blood Artist, but also a Falkenrath Aristocrat. After all she has build-in haste and can attack the same turn. Maybe even severely bumped.
Rally the Ancestors might not be a four-of, but its blow out potential in my opinion justify a two-of. At least test it, it is strong.
Is Bloodsoaked Champion really cutting it for you? I played him myself as a two-of, but always felt him being so lackluster, that in the end I cut him from the deck.
Last, but not least, something I really love to see. Mogg War Marshal! Seriously, this dude is the stuff. Three triggers for Blood Artist at 2cmc aswell as potentinal late game mana sink. He at times feels like a lesser Lingering Souls. He also works really damn well with Rally the Ancestors, because he leaves tokens behind.
How are the Ghost Quarters performing in your build? Can you sustain the drain in your mana base?
Some additional suggestions of me would be Wear / Tear ,Rakdos Charm and a fourth Thoughtseize (instead of Lingering Souls) for the SB. Cards you also might want to look into are Sword of Light and Shadow as well as Sword of Feast and Famine. Both of them excel in token deck (especially Lingering Souls) and Cartel Aristocrat with 2-3+ kinds of protections is disgusting. Not to speak of the effects of the swords themselves.
Here is my decklist, if you want to have a look:
Mardu Aristocrats | Being the tyrant, or not to be
Modern
SCORE: 3 | 5 COMMENTS | 244 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
Also, +1 :P
April 27, 2016 4:53 p.m.
LordDerrien Thanks for posting! Your deck looks really cool. I agree not having 4 Lingering Souls was a problem. That decision was a left over from the Twin Days. The reason I have the 4 main deck Lightning Bolts! over Path to Exile is because while they are both good early game removal, Lightning Bolt also has the upside of being able help finish the game. I have 4 Path to Exile between the main and side.
So far, Rally the Ancestors hasn't seemed has not seemed to fit. It feels to slow. I don't really dump that many creatures into the graveyard until I am going off. And at the point the game is basically over anyways. I may test it again at some point.
Bloodsoaked Champion has definitely seemed worth it so far. I have thought about dropping down to one but I am not convinced yet. He puts on a good early clock, and being able to machine gun off with him late game is really powerful. Especially with Falkenrath Aristocrat as its another human.
Mogg War Marshal has really impressed me and if I find anything I want to cut its one of the first choices to add.
Ghost Quarter has been great. I haven't had problems with running 4 colorless lands but I would not run more. It is so good against utility lands like Inkmoth Nexus, Blinkmoth Nexus, and Celestial Colonnade.
I used to have Wear / Tear but I didn't feel like it was worth it. Not enough enchantments and my other artifact answers seem stronger. Rakdos Charm could be nice as graveyard hate, or even burn. I do like the idea of 4 Thoughtseize as well. The Swords are something I will think of too. That seems like another good way to add variety to my attack and gain extra value.
April 27, 2016 5:15 p.m.
LordDerrien says... #12
@LordSnow Great, now I also want to pack 4 Lightning Bolts...
On another note, now I am definitly thinking about four colorless lands. I already play Westvale Abbey Flip, but two Ghost Quarter and a single Vault of the Archangel definitly look tasty to have.
At the moment it feels like your deck is more of an aggressive approach, while mine likes to let things proceed into midrange territory.
Always loved that about Aristocrats; the sheer diversity in the builds possible is just awesome. The only thing you basically need are 6-8 Aristocrats, ~4 Blood Artist effects, Lingering Souls and at least 7-8 others main things just their for sacrifice.
That makes 24 core cards + 22-24 lands and you have 12-14 slots open for the stuff you feel the strongest about!
April 27, 2016 5:40 p.m.
@LordDerrien Try it out, its pretty nice. And yes, you hit it spot on. Mine is more aggressive. I mean to finish people early and just barely get into mid game. Though of course my mid-game is fairly solid because of Souls and stuff like that.
I would say try adding some utility lands. Ghost Quarter is insanely strong right now. People are playing a ton of creature lands, plus Academy Ruins, and Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. Vault of the Archangel would be great in a more midrange focused deck.
And isn't it a fun archetype? So many different variations. And if Wizards keeps supporting it we the possibilities only grow.
April 27, 2016 5:49 p.m.
LordDerrien says... #14
@LordSnow I did not even know this Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle even existed, but hell does it look scary. Must have been in a cycle with Emeria, The Sky Ruin.
I will definitly try to add them than, but it might take some time, because I really loathe it to work on a mana base...
We are kinda lucky, that we sit in the same car as Jund, Junk and Dega, the all out Midrange approaches to the G/B/x decks. Everything they try and is really powerful, might just find the way into our decks. One could say, that we are to poor for Tarmogoyf, but like to play the removal suit! :D
And you are right Kolaghan's Command, Zulaport Cutthroat and Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip are very recent editions. I actually thought about adding the new Liliana, but I always wanted to have Liliana of the Veil and play her in a deck, that fits thight to her devilish attitude and arrogant good looks...
April 27, 2016 6 p.m. Edited.
@LordDerrien Yup, its in Scapeshift. Some scary shit. It seems worth it if you can fit them in.
And we are lucky, lots of choices and not forced into Tarmogoyf. Its a nice sweet spot.
The New Lili is definitely worth a try. With Doomed Traveler or Mogg War Marshal she can be just insnae. And way cheaper than Liliana of the Veil.
Westvale Abbey Flip is another big new one! Crackling Doom seems nice as well.
April 27, 2016 6:09 p.m.
LordDerrien says... #16
@LordSnow Indeed the new Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip seems nice and maybe I will pick her up after rotation, but at the moment Sword of Light and Shadow does the same and in my opinion better, but that is a matter of taste. Her Lifelink for example and token when she flips are not to be undervalued.
The only reason I could pick up Liliana of the Veil was me going out of Standard and seeling a big number of cards I had not played in years. She was definitly worth it and if they reprint her, I do not care. The card is a flavor and value win and I will propably never sell her. She also makes Crackling Doom kinda redundant, which I do not really like, because I love my foil version, which sadly got kicked out of the Sideboard (Bogles really should not be a problem).
An alternative to Ghost Quarter may als be Crumble to Dust, also a new card. Not to speak Westvale Abbey Flip. That one will only go up, because it can go in every token and creature deck, that floods the board. Also sacrificing five creatures while a Blood Artist effect is out creates the possibility of drain 5 and swing in for 9 with Ormendahl, the Profane Prince, not only dealing 14 damage, but also gaining us 14 life.
April 27, 2016 6:24 p.m.
@LordDerrien Yup, 14 can be a huge swing and can probably finish the game. Its not even that difficult to set up. And you may even still have a left over spirit or two afterwords too. Definitely worth being at least a one-of.
April 27, 2016 8:41 p.m.
Have you considered Timely Reinforcements? With Fetch/Shocklands and Bob I think it would be easy to have less life than your opponent and if you have more creatures you can simply sac them. With Blood Artist you could even control how much life you gain if you target yourself.
June 2, 2016 7:10 p.m.
Hey broesl! I have considered it. I don't think its powerful enough to be main board. I don't know what would be worth removing for it. The it would have to be a 3 drop or a War Marshall, and I would probably rather take the 3 creatures a turn two over getting the life and giving my entire turn three. It helps in races, but the deck is already extremely good at racing with creatures. This deck excels at controlling combat.
But I have given it a lot of thought as a side board card. I think if my match against burn was worse I would put it in. But as of now, it doesn't seem great against the decks I am bad against such as various combo decks or Merfolk.
Any other ideas? Thanks for the input. I want to sharpen the hell out of this thing.
June 2, 2016 7:53 p.m.
Very cool deck! It may be too cute but have you considered Greater Gargadon as a sac outlet/alternate win-con? While suspended your opponent can't interact with your sac outlet and it presents an inevitable threat that, at some point, will come down and attack immediately since suspended creatures ETB with haste.
June 3, 2016 9:13 a.m.
Hello Briefcase! I have put a lot of thought into that card as well. I think it has potential, but I also think it may just be a touch too slow. The non-interactiveness seems really cool, but I feel like the ability of the other aristocrats to get in there and attack may be a bit too valuable. I kinda want to test with it a bit though. It does seem like a cool idea. I have ideas for other versions of the deck that could use it a lot better too.
Thanks a lot for the input though! Any other ideas? And try out the deck if you get a chance! So much fun, and I guarantee its more powerful than you would guess.
June 3, 2016 10:41 a.m.
LordDerrien says... #22
What are your thought on Skin Invasion Flip? In my opinion it has some real potential. You are basically receiving an 3/4 attacker for one red mana with a deck, that can reliably sacrifice creatures.
June 3, 2016 11:35 a.m.
Hello again LordDerrien! I have been wanting to test with it but I haven't gotten the chance. It seems like it could be really strong, but I am worried it is too slow. Especially since it does nothing on its own. The way I see it, I would rather have nearly anything else in my opening hand or as a top deck. So that makes it a little tough to cut something to make space. Maybe a Bloodsoaked Champion, but even then I think the Champion would be better early and late game. Though it does seem really attractive to Skin Invasion Flip a Doomed Traveler or a Dark Confidant to make it less appealing to kill.
Any ideas on something worth cutting? Or any other ideas in general? And thanks for all the input, you have been very helpful.
Have you gotten a chance to test the deck out at all?
June 3, 2016 1:06 p.m.
LordDerrien says... #24
It is definitly true, that Skin Invasion Flip on its own, isn't a good card at all. But so are all Aura's (especially Daybreak Coronet) in Bogles. The only reason it is good, is because they fit the deck.
As long, as we have a target for Skin Invasion Flip, which should not be difficult with 28-30 creatures or recurring token producers, it will be everything we want. Cheap, deliberate and an enforced clock.
It will never hurt you with an Dark Confidant out.
We can cirumvent its weakness of never flipping, because we play a bunch of sacrifice outlets.
May sound weird, but placing Skin Invasion Flip on a weak creature and having it attack every turn can be a real threat. The opponent will be pressured, because knowingly killing a creature, that will make you face a potentinally stronger creature can be a great deterrent and force decisions, that do stress them out.
3/4 for 1cmc?! That does sound pretty disgusting and may grant us our own smal Tarmogoyf.
What to take out? And that is, where it get tricky. I seriously do not know. Do we want the whole playset? If not, one seems dismissable, two not often enough to draw it reliably and three makes you ask yourself, why you are not playing it as a four-of.
I would tend to play it as a four-of and cutting them out, if they are not up to snough. Thing I would cut in general would be low CMC spells, that only grant you one body. In your build, that would be Bloodsoaked Champion and Viscera Seer. The first one is a pet-peeve of mine. He has failed me so often, I do not play him anymore out of spite and the second one is not needed, because 6-7 sacrifce outlets are enough. At least for me.
Cut: 2x Viscera Seer, 2x Bloodsoaked Champion, 2x Falkenrath Aristocrat
Add: 4x Skin Invasion Flip, 2x Cartel Aristocrat
Also, if you are able to pick them up:
Cut: 2x Mogg War Marshal, 2x Ghost Quarter
Add: 2x Bitterblossom, 2x Shambling Vent
Edit: Playing Skin Invasion Flip on a creature with summoning sickness or in the second main phase means, that the opponent has a hard decision to make, if he wants to attack. After all we could use the enchanted creature to block and attack next turn with a 3/4 or chose not to, because it does not have the "must attack" - clause.
June 3, 2016 2:13 p.m. Edited.
Haha LordDerrien, you are definitely doing a pretty good job selling me on Skin Invasion Flip. I am still worried about the fact that it doesn't do anything unless I already have another creature, so I don't know if it could be a 4 of in the deck. That and its really bad against Path to Exile and Cryptic Command or other removal that doesn't actually kill the creature. It puts you at risk for getting two for one'd, where you are the one who is trying to do the two for one'ing. But I see it as a possible 1-3 of. Maybe 2 would be best. It is not something you want all the time, but it is also something that your opponent wont expect and won't be quite sure how to deal with most of the time. I really like that it would make you opponent have second thoughts about killing a Dark Confidant or Viscera Seer, and of course I like the really cheap and large body. And your arguments about using it on a small creature to make combat decisions harder are very good, as that is where this deck really shines already. It fits the theme well. And enchanting one of their critters before bolting it sounds like a blast as well.
The problem with replacing one of my one drops is then I lose my turn one plays, which are very important. You have had bad luck with Bloodsoaked Champion? I have liked him a lot so far, though to be honest he is one of the cards I board out most often. But against combo and control he puts on a clock right from the get go. I have killed people with just him before, as people often are more focused on other threats such as the Aristocrats. And being able to return him 2-4 times in a turn late game is a big deal. With an Artist and a Falkenrath Aristocrat that can be 4-8 extra damage the opponent didn't see coming. With that said, I think I will test with Skin Invasion Flip in place of the Bloodsoaked Champion and see how it goes. Maybe a Mogg War Marshal instead, or as a 3rd if I like it.
Do you find 6-7 Aristocrats to be enough? I feel like I am right where I want to be. I used to have 10 which was too many. At 8 I feel like I don't usually draw to many, but if I go any lower I feel like I might now be drawing enough. Do you not like Viscera Seer to much? I find the turn one access to an aristocrat can make a HUGE difference, and Seer has fixed more of my draws than I can count. I would almost rather cut another Cartel Aristocrat over the Seer. And I used to run just 3 Falkenrath Aristocrat but I don't think I will ever drop below 4 again, unless I replaced it with a Butcher of the Horde. It is just such an amazing finisher and has won me more games than any other card.
For you other suggestions, I used to run Bitterblossom but I felt like it would kill me more often than the opponent. Its clock was just too slow and I dealt myself so much damage, I would often lose myself the race I should have otherwise won. With this decks aggressiveness and painful 3 colors, and no way to remove the enchantment, I felt like it was just too much of a risk.
Shambling Vent is something that I have been thinking a lot about as well. I was thinking of switching the Isolated Chapel for it. The coming it to play tapped is worrisome to me though. Usually I want to play something turn one, turn two, and 1-2 things on turn three. This deck sets a mean tempo and I don't know if I can afford having a land coming in to play tapped if I don't want it to. The chance of Chapel or Blackcleave Cliffs coming in tapped is already a bit scary. But the extra angle of attack might be worth it... What do you think?
Cutting a Ghost Quarter is an option, but I wouldn't cut more than one. That card has been a real all star for me. Playing 3 could be too much though. I was also thinking of replacing it with an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
Does my reasoning all make sense? These are my initial reactions at least. I will keep thinking about it. This deck has been absolute heat lately, but I wont pass up a chance to make it even better. I'll be testing a bit with 1, 2, and 3 Skin Invasion Flips when I get some extra time. Not sure I will jump in to 4 right away because it doesn't seem like something I want to draw EVERY game. But in certain situations, oh the hijinks to be had. Gotta appreciate new tech. Keep your ideas coming when ever you get one. Its nice having input from someone else who has experience in the archetype. I have been meaning to test out your deck when I have some time as well. Swords and Souls are calling to me.
mtgraphael says... #1
Nice deck! I like the concept a lot overall. Just a few thoughts:Why more Zulaport Cutthroats than Blood Artists? I can see the use of having 1 power to swing, but the cutthroat's only hurt your opponent for creatures you control, whereas blood artist applies to all creatures on the field. I'm making the rather large assumption that budget isn't the issue here considering the $750 deck- so I might consider Bloodghast for the build. I know the two black cost is a bit tricky for three color, but his ability to be recycled, swing for two, and then be sacked to an artist is brutal. I agree that grave pact is incredibly effective, but it takes up your entire turn four, where your deck might be able to take the game by then. Maybe as a one-of? Also Vexing Devil is a nasty option. Love the deck!
April 18, 2016 7:15 p.m.