It's Not Easy Being Green

Commander / EDH RamaLama

SCORE: 149 | 287 COMMENTS | 34016 VIEWS | IN 62 FOLDERS


Emzed says... #1

Yisan is a fantastic card, but only if there is a good selection of creatures at 1cmc and 2cmc for him, which this deck doesn't have. You would have to change the list a lot to make him work, adding cards like Sylvan Safekeeper, Caustic Caterpillar, Scavenging Ooze and Scryb Ranger. While that's possible, it doesn't seem like the best way to go.

January 8, 2017 12:29 p.m.

RamaLama says... #2

Thanks for the suggestion, Blard.

Yisan, the Wanderer Bard is a good card, but I think Emzed is right that this deck would need to be set up differently to take full advantage of it.

January 8, 2017 5:45 p.m.

Blard says... #3

yeah. it is good in most decks but the deck has to be somewhat setup so that you can use.

January 8, 2017 6:54 p.m.

PHYREXIANPYREX says... #4

I could see you finding room for Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger in here for even more insane mana production.

January 12, 2017 6:25 a.m.

RamaLama says... #5

Thanks for the suggestion, TenaciousKey.

I don't know if you read my description, but in it I say that there are no stax effects in the deck, and Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger certainly qualifies as a stax effect.

I currently have a Vorinclex residing in my binder. I've added it to the deck and taken it out at least twice. The problem is I have a number of tutoring cards, and it's hard not to tutor for Vorinclex. It got to the point where the guys in my playgroup would roll their eyes whenever they saw Fierce Empath, Tooth and Nail or any of the other tutor cards come into play because they knew I was going after Vorinclex, and why wouldn't I?

So yeah, Vorinclex wasn't an oversight, I just elected not to include it.

January 12, 2017 7:52 a.m.

Vernal Bloom Azusa, Lost but Seeking Krosan Grip

I cannot fathom how someone considered Stonehoof Chieftain and found any reason not to run him.

January 12, 2017 8:56 p.m.

PHYREXIANPYREX says... #7

Ahh, I didn't notice the previous comments until after I commented. I can also suggest Solidarity of Heroes and Mimic Vat, you could do a lot of damage pumping out an Acidic Slime or Hornet Queen every upkeep.

January 12, 2017 9:13 p.m.

RamaLama says... #8

Thanks for the comments, guys.

the_earl_0f_grey, I've covered my thoughts on Vernal Bloom in previous comments, but it comes down to me not wanting to give other green players free mana.

This deck isn't set up to take advantage of Azusa, Lost but Seeking. Oracle of Mul Daya works much better in this build.

Removal is a thing. How much or how little removal should I include? I play Omnath in both multiplayer and dual games. In multiplayer I don't need as much removal as I do in dual commander games. Krosan Grip is a good card and may go in if I add any more removal to the deck, but for now I like Acidic Slime for that purpose. I can tutor for it, bring it back from the dead with Eternal Witness or Greenwarden of Murasa, and with deathtouch, it's a damn good chump blocker. That along with my other removal cards will have to do for the time being, it could change.

I'm sorry that my not including Stonehoof Chieftain is unfathomable to you, and if I had a 200 card deck, I'm sure it would be included, but I don't, and I can't, so I don't think it makes the cut. Giving Omnath indestructible for half of my own turn is clearly not anywhere close to the Spearbreaker Behemoth triggered ability, and it's a lot to pay just to give Omnath trample. Remember this is a voltron deck, not a green fatty deck. With a couple of exceptions, all the creatures in the deck are here to further the voltron goal.

TenaciousKey, I think I see your point about Solidarity of Heroes. I think I have four creatures that deal with +1/+1 counters, but the two hydras are only in the deck as mana dumps for Omnath in case of removal, and aren't part of the overall strategy of the deck, Vigor is just protection for Omnath, while Spike Weaver is just here to allow me an extra turn or two if I'm close to winning but don't want to die first.

I kind of like the Mimic Vat idea. Aside from the two cards you mentioned, Fierce Empath and Greenwarden of Murasa would be a couple of good ones to bring back. Probably a bit too situational, but something to think about.

January 13, 2017 1:38 p.m. Edited.

P4nd3m1c says... #9

January 15, 2017 1:10 p.m.

P4nd3m1c says... #10

Blighted Woodland could be a good replacement for Skyshroud Claim in order to keep your permanent count high for Genesis Wave. Also, Primal Surge could be used to double the instances of permanent drop too.

January 15, 2017 3:16 p.m.

Emzed says... #11

Blighted Woodland has the very serious drawback of not producing green mana unless you crack it. For this particular commander, the number of actual green sources needs to be as high as possible. While i personally like Blighted Woodland a lot, i'm not sure it has a place here.
If you would replace Skyshroud Claim with it, in comparison you lose a landdrop, you ramp a turn later, and the lands come into play tapped (in a deck that needs every point of mana it can possibly get). If you want a permanent as a replacement, how about Argothian Elder? It taps for 2 mana (or more), and provides both devotion and extra uses of utility lands. It does also produce infinite mana with Maze of Ith (attack with it, use Maze, then keep untapping Maze and a mana producing land), so if don't like infinite combos, either of those two would have to stay out.
I have another suggestion though: The new Rishkar's Expertise would fit in here very nicely, it draws a ton of cards and also gives you a free spell.

January 15, 2017 4:11 p.m.

Emzed says... #13

While most of your points about Rishkar's Expertise are true, it can be returned by Eternal Witness and Greenwarden of Murasa. On the contrary, Regal Force might stay in play for a while, whereas Expertise goes straight to the grave, ready to be brought back. You can even cast Eternal Witness of the Expertise's "free spell" clause and grab it right away.
Also, my assumption is that on average, Rishkar's Expertise will draw way more cards than Regal Force in your deck. Regal Force probably draws something like 4-7 in most cases (occasionally more if you have a token producer), whereas Expertise can easily net 10-20 cards with fatties like Omnath, Primalcrux or Mossbridge Troll. Neither of them is great if you don't have a solid board position, but i feel it's a lot easier to get 5+ cards out of Expertise than Regal Force - you only need a single creature with decent power.
Still, your points about Regal Force are true: Devotion and availability via tutors matter a lot. Cutting such an important role player would hurt cards like Green Sun's Zenith and Tooth and Nail by reducing their arsenal. So maybe it would be an option to keep Regal Force and find space for Rishkar's Expertise elsewhere?

January 15, 2017 7:32 p.m.

Emzed says... #14

Oh, now i responded to a post that doesn't even exist anymore. First world problems i guess :D

January 15, 2017 7:33 p.m.

RamaLama says... #15

Thanks for the suggestions P4nd3m1c, and of course thanks again Emzed for making my case better than I can make it myself.

I do like Sword of the Animist and run it in two of my commander decks. Being an artifact it works much better in decks that don't contain green but need ramp. Fortunately this deck is solid green and there is no shortage of options in this color.

Skyshroud Claim is just a better card in this deck than Blighted Woodland. To be able to grab two forests and put them onto the battlefield untapped reduces the effective cost of playing Skyshroud Claim to only 2...great value.

I didn't know about the Argothian Elder - Maze of Ith combo, Emzed. You can stop it from going infinite by not untapping Maze of Ith one of those times though. It does give devotion, which I like, but it also has summoning sickness, doesn't actually give you any land, and like all creatures, is susceptible to removal before you can get your money's worth out of it. Interesting card though.

Rishkar's Expertise is an obvious replacement for Regal Force. I think I like it, although it'll cost me devotion, a body, and a chance to tutor for it.

January 15, 2017 7:37 p.m.

RamaLama says... #16

Sorry Emzed, I realized my error before I saw your post, but couldn't edit my post, so I deleted it, fixed the error, and reposted it.

January 15, 2017 7:43 p.m.

RamaLama says... #17

Actually Emzed, I think I do like Rishkar's Expertise better than Regal Force even with the down sides. Thanks for the suggestion, I guess I'll have to order one.

January 15, 2017 7:54 p.m.

Emzed says... #19

Hey, are you aware of Patron of the Orochi? It's basically a second Seedborn Muse. More expensive, suffers from summoning sickness, but it also untaps once on your own turn and is bigger by itself.

January 17, 2017 12:54 p.m.
January 17, 2017 1:51 p.m.

Herbenix says... #21

January 17, 2017 3:52 p.m.

RamaLama says... #22

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

I do like Patron of the Orochi, Emzed, but I've been playing a few games with Omnath lately, and I'm noticing that getting a playable opening hand is getting more difficult with the advent of the Vancouver Mulligan. It seems that if I'm lucky enough to get three lands in my opening hand, I'm very likely to fill it out with 5, 6, and 7 drops, and if I toss that hand, there's a average chance I'll get one land or none on the second go-round. The last couple of games I played had me casting Omnath as the first spell in the game. That just doesn't seem right somehow.

It's true that mana isn't the issue with Omnath that it is with most other commanders, but I'm starting to feel like I need to lower my average CMC, or at least not increase it, so if I were to include Patron of the Orochi, and I may yet, it would give me another 8 drop, unless I dropped my biggest devotion guy.

All of this whining I'm doing holds true for Archetype of Endurance too, Herbenix. I do have Arcane Lighthouse in for that purpose, it taps for colorless when not needed, and is easy to activate. Not as strong, but it doesn't cost 8 and is harder to get rid of.

See what you started, Emzed? You suggest Patron of the Orochi and the_earl_0f_grey wants to take me down the snake tribal rabbit hole. /;-) Sakiko, Mother of Summer is interesting though, although I think it's sort of a win-more card. By the time I start hoisting Omnath at people, he's already pretty hefty.

January 18, 2017 11:11 a.m.

I was actually suggesting Lotus Cobra and Sakura-Tribe Elder as early ramp with only a rare occasion moment of Patron synergy to add some durability. Your comments can be confusing. You say you don't want higher CMC but play EXCLUSIVELY creature cheating effects and a skyshroud as the ramp. Sakiko, Mother of Summer is capable of hitting your mana into the casual hundreds while Khalni Hydra is just a source of devotion. Mark of Sakiko is probably a better idea if you're dropping the overall CMC. You seem to be taking an approach to Omnath that mostly ignores developing mana and I hadn't realized.

January 18, 2017 1:26 p.m.

RamaLama says... #24

Skyshroud Claim is not THE ramp, the_earl_0f_grey, it is A ramp card, but there are right many others, namely Abundance; Frontier Siege, Mana Reflection, Zendikar Resurgent, Genesis Wave; Tempt with Discovery; Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx; Scrying Sheets; Doubling Cube; Extraplanar Lens; Sword of Feast and Famine; Karametra's Acolyte; Oracle of Mul Daya; Seedborn Muse; Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, and Nissa, Worldwaker.

So you see, there is plenty of ramp going on in the deck. Would more be nice, well sure, but there are other things to consider besides ramp.

I have to try and protect Omnath and the mana he's storing. That takes a fair number or cards.

I have to protect myself and that takes some card slots.

Omnath doesn't fly or have trample or any other type of evasion, so if I'm going to get damage through with him, cards have to be included for that effect, otherwise I'm swinging away with a huge commander that gets chump blocked.

Green doesn't do card draw very well, but what card draw there is needs to be represented in the deck.

Green does do tutoring pretty well, so being able to tutor for whatever is needed at the time, like Tajuru Preserver when someone plays an old Eldrazi or Karametra's Acolyte when Khalni Hydra is on the field, or Vigor to protect Omnath from damage, or Yeva, Nature's Herald to protect my mana pool. I could go on and on, but you get the point.

Since Omnath can be turned into a bug, or a tree, or get put behind the moon, or transformed into a land, and I've had all of that happen at one time or another, I need to have at least an attempt at a plan "B", so having a few creatures seems like it might be a good idea.

So, I'm not ignoring mana production, I have a lot of it, but mana production has to share the deck with all of the other things that are necessary to get me through the game.

January 18, 2017 9:09 p.m.

Emzed says... #25

You do in fact have lots of cards that produce extra mana, but basically none of them start doing that before turn 4 or 5. The cards the_earl_0f_grey suggested would help you get there a turn earlier, which can make a big difference.

January 19, 2017 5:04 a.m.

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