NoggleColossus says... #4
Consider more extort cards. Blind Obedience or Tithe Drinker could be boss with the Archangel.
October 28, 2013 8:17 a.m.
Thank you :) Consideration taken. Perhaps I should remove the High Priests for Tithe Drinkers? And what should I take out, my friends, to main Thoughtseize once I have them?
October 28, 2013 8:38 a.m.
Not sure Soulmender
is better than Blind Obedience
. Sure, he is a one drop, but at 1/1 and giving 1 life on a body that you won't really want to block it or be able to effectively attack anyway, I'm not sure he is worth keeping. Plus that Blind Obedience
forces opponent creatures to enter tapped... that's a nasty one, especially when you're both topdecking.
I think in this deck you'd rather want Obzedat, Ghost Council
more than Blood Baron of Vizkopa
. He is a bit more cost-pretentious, but gaining unconditional life each turn on a 5/5 body quite difficult to remove, I would say he is a better choice. You want the Blood Baron of Vizkopa
still up for an option? Replace those Shattering Blow
s with it.
Dark Betrayal
is way too niche for what you probably want to use it for. Stick a Hero's Downfall
instead, or actually replace the Orzhov Charm
with it, and move the charm in sideboard. It seems like an awesome addition, but more often has the charm disappointed me due to life loss than help - very rarely you will actually have the mana to use it to respond to opponent removal and save one of your creatures.
I understand Archangel of Thune
is the center creature of your strategy, but four copies is insane, especially seeing as you have so many other high-cost cards out there. You need more draw power, and you can get that from Read the Bones
. The lifeloss is no problem, and the capability to also scry is super powerful.
maddoggsouza is right. Get rid of that Gift of Orzhova
for two copies of Whip of Erebos
and one extra Read the Bones
. You don't want too many whips due to the legend rule (trust me, even with 2 there is the risk of ending with both of them in your hand, and that's never a happy moment).
That's about it. I definitely like you deck and am looking forward to seeing what you end up with. thumbs up
October 29, 2013 8:31 a.m.
Thanks for the quite helpful comment Tilwin!Of what you have suggested, I would only disagree with the removal of [Archangel of Thune], since that they're quite useful when accumulated on the field. Instead I have removed the [Blood Baron of Vizkopa] to lower the number of high-cost cards and added just one [Obzedat, Ghost Council]. Perhaps I should try removing one of the [Archangel of Thune] for another [Obzedat, Ghost Council]. Unfortunately I do not yet own any. :(In addition I've made other changes taking your comment into account.Thank you once again :) I'll be sure to check out your decks!
October 29, 2013 6:40 p.m.
I agree that the Archangel of Thune
s are very useful on the battlefield, but curve is also important. Not to mention diversity in order to make your deck more resilient and resistant to as many opponent strategies. But you know what works best for you. In case you end up with "too many of them" consider getting rid of one or two. Otherwise, keep 'em in... they sure get the job done when on the battlefield.
Not sure Rest in Peace
wouldn't be more counter-productive than useful for you due to the existence of the Whip of Erebos
. Reanimator decks are a rare sight these days, so the meta suggests rather getting something like Ratchet Bomb
to stand a chance against token-heavy decks (I totally hate Young Pyromancer
).
And I still don't get why Shattering Blow
. Not many awful artifacts around... though a lot of powerful enchantments. I feel you might run into a lot of trouble if you have to deal with Detention Sphere
. Why not get Keening Apparition
instead of the blow? It is an extra body, costs 2 mana, and can take care of enchantments at instant speed if necessary. Or Angelic Edict
... costs a lot of money, but takes care of all them enchantments for good (including the awful gods). Or in some cases even High Priest of Penance
can be a real pain - now imagine it pumped up by your angels.
I really really like how this deck is turning out though. I'll be sure to keep a close watch on it for any changes, and try to get the oh-so-many-cards I don't have yet to give it a try as well.
October 30, 2013 4:48 a.m.
Point taken! I will definitely change the Shattering Blow for the Keening Apparition . And I'll also consider Ratchet Bomb and perhaps Pithing Needle to substitute the Rest in Peace . Cheers!
October 30, 2013 9:01 a.m.
My friends, what do you think of the land count? Should it remain in 24?I have also substituted the Tithe Drinker for Soldier of the Pantheon . He's pretty much the same thing when affected by the Whip and has some nice extra protection and an even lower mana cost.
November 2, 2013 10:20 a.m.
Soldier of the Pantheon does not come with extort. It's much more risky to rely on both it and Whip of Erebos . But sure, why not, it has some lifegain effect?You might consider removing one Lifebane Zombie and one Fiendslayer Paladin for 2 Precinct Captain . Make your deck slightly aggro. Diversity makes your deck more resilient.As for lands, if u must remove one Doom Blade . I am no expert in landcount so whatever works for you.
November 2, 2013 4:18 p.m.
I'm gonna return the favor for your deck! I really like what you've got here. However, Fiendslayer Paladin and Lifebane Zombie are really specific for the colors in their abilities. I would trade a set of one of those out for Precinct Captain and the Lifebane Zombie for two more Obzedat, Ghost Council and a Blood Baron of Vizkopa the fourth card you could maybe toss in a Sin Collector or something. Your choice. Either way, I can see where this deck would be a major pain in the butt. Nice job! +1
November 2, 2013 8:04 p.m.
seems good but I'd swap a doomblade for another hero's downfallthen instead of the charms run 3x Dark Betrayal in the side.
I'd turn the guildmages into 2 more d. demons as they're more board presence/aggressive. and if you could cut a fiendslayer paladin into the side, and run an erebos maindeck.
The last thing I would suggest is 2x Glare of Heresy in the sideboard, as detention sphere/chained to the rocks and things like that are all great removal and that answers them for your deck. Still, interesting plan +1
November 3, 2013 1:57 p.m.
I think u should add Riot Control and/or Angel of Serenity
November 10, 2013 9:08 a.m.
SasukeUchiha says... #15
I would suggest having both Pithing Needle and Gods Willing in your deck, and I would change at least one Devour Flesh for something else (unless you see hexproof in almost every deck you face. has a slight weakness to control, and all the Thoughtseize and Duress may not get rid of all their worst spells. It is good to have both pre-emptive (Thoughtseize , Duress ) and responsive (Pithing Needle , Gods Willing ) cards when facing control because then you can respond to any threat that comes your way.
December 10, 2013 6:30 p.m.
ShadowLand says... #16
+1 from me! Check out my deck and let me know what you think please!!
December 19, 2013 6:03 p.m.
You are running a very mana-expensive deck, and no ramp. I would probably cut one or two expensive cards (arch angel comes to mind) for one or two lands. Getting stuck at 3 mana is no fun at all.
December 25, 2013 7:07 p.m.
I appreciate your concern, however mana-screw is not usually a problem with this deck. I personally believe only a control deck would need more than 24 lands. Thank you for the suggestion though :)
December 26, 2013 7:39 a.m.
looking at similar orzhov midrange decks from tournaments they all run 25 or 26 lands. But it's your deck.
December 26, 2013 3:43 p.m.
Interesting. Maybe you are right, could you link me some of those so I can take a look? Thanks :)
December 26, 2013 3:50 p.m.
Here is the most known version, played to fifth place in the pro tour by Paul Reitzl. http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=5787&d=233546
And here is a list of other similar decks that have preformed well recently (although since december a lot of the decks has evolved by splashing blue): http://www.mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=337
December 26, 2013 3:54 p.m.
TheGodofNight says... #22
First of all, I've been looking for some Orzhov Inspiration and I found it in your deck. +1 for restoring my love of Orzhov. Thankfully, I have all of the cards listed in this deck, so I was able to put this little gem together, with a few modifications. While my suggestions are merely that, suggestions, I really want to see this deck take 1st at your LGS.
As for some of the changes I made when assembling this deck. I dropped the 1 Doomblade and 1 Ultimate Price , not a huge fan of "one of's" but hey maybe that works for your meta. Instead, I mainboarded the two Blind Obedience because slowing down aggro decks is so helpful, plus it forces control deck players to return Obzedat, Ghost Council and AEtherling back to the battlefield tapped every time which saves on extra damage from both sources. As a bonus, the extort triggers can help with life gain. In the sideboard, I dropped the 2 Blind Obedience for 2 Pithing Needle , mostly because of all of the Esper Control deck variations at my local game shop. Finally, I opted to split the land evenly using 8 Plains and 8 Swamp .
Thus far, I've only had the luxury of testing against a few decks at hand, one of them a Rakdos Aggro deck, which aims to pump out 20+ by turn 4 or 5. It was a bit of a struggle with mana, because my initial draw yielded 1, maybe 2 mana, so I'd mulligan down to 6 and end up the same way. Going to 5, I would usually get 3 in my opening hand. The difficult part of this is dropping to 5 cards just to make sure I have enough mana to start. You said you weren't having mana issues with the deck. I was curious, were you having no issues at all, or about 40% of the time? After about 6 games, I won 2. An aggressive aggro deck does present a bit of an issue, but I've seen this same deck cripple and kill control decks in 4 turns, so I don't know if it was a fair test of the deck's abilities.
The next deck I played against was an Esper Mill deck. It utilizes counterspell and mill to make a deck inconsistent. Of the 4 games I played, I won 2; usually having to play it very close to 1 health. In fact, I believe, I spent one of those matches sitting at 1 health, gaining 2, losing 2, and repeating for about 4 turns (very nerve wracking). I noticed that mana was again an issue with the deck. Tomorrow I will take it for a test drive at my LGS and see how it fairs and I will report back with details.
Just some thoughts for you as it stands right now. How do you feel about Celestial Flare vs Devour Flesh ? I like how I can use Devour Flesh on myself to benefit Archangel of Thune or gain 6 life off of a Desecration Demon to keep myself in the game, but letting my opponent gain a lot of life rattles me to the core. I was thinking Celestial Flare might be a better solution to that, although they need to be attacking? Conversely, for one additional mana Far / Away is an option because it doesn't let them gain life. Well, it is something to think about.
If possible, could you elaborate on your sideboarding practices? I was very curious what you take out for what decks, and what you put in, specifically for something like Esper Control.
Overall, I am very excited about this deck. It's a return to my favorite two colors, and a fresh take on Orzhov. Thank you for all the work you put into this. I wish you lots of success.
Finest Regards,
TheGodofNight
December 27, 2013 1:20 a.m.
Bootwo2000 says... #23
I would remove Archangel of Thune and add +1 Obzedat, Ghost Council . The Lifebane Zombie here should be sideboarded or thrown out altogether. Also Soldier of the Pantheon is a pure meta call. If you aren't going against a lot of Rakdos Aggro then I would toss them as well. You need to add the Duress main board. Hand destruction is the bread and butter of Orzhov. I can't tell you how many games I have won against Azorius due to pulling their Supreme Verdict early or Sphinx's Revelation before they could drop it. You can always tell because they will hold all their mana open until your end step, nothing is more gratuitous than raining on a Sphinx Rev parade before it starts.
December 29, 2013 10:26 p.m.
TheGodofNight says... #24
I played this deck with my previously mentioned modifications at my local game shop, I won 2 out of 4 matches and played an additional 3 "just for fun" matches. After playing it, I've decided to recommend a few additional changes that may benefit you.
For starters, I was considering dropping down to 24 lands from 26, as well as dropping the Read the Bones in favor of 3 Underworld Connections . With the copious amounts of life gain this deck has, I think that it is a perfect candidate for Underworld Connections . Plus it allows you to speed through the deck much quicker than with Read the Bones , and it forces your opponent to address the issue, or succumb to extra draws.
I know you like the Archangel of Thune , but i must admit that it is a very situational creature. I would definitely consider a second Obzedat, Ghost Council over Archangel of Thune , but I can also understand you desire to keep her, because when the deck curves into her, wow, counters galore. I found the 2 Blind Obedience to be a much better choice over the single Doom Blade and Ultimate Price , not only did it slow my opponents down, but the extort was a life saver at times too.
I know a lot of people are giving you grief for using the 2 Lifebane Zombie s, however, I tend to fully agree with your assessment, they often yield a 1:2 cantrip for playing with them. And I must admit, I was blown away by how versatile Devour Flesh is. I felt awkward using it, allowing my opponents' to gain life, but I found that I was very able to overcome the little bit of life gain with ease.
I stand by my recommendation of using at least 2 Pithing Needle in your sideboard. It was a perfect addition to the deck, stopping pesky Planeswalkers, stifling any Mutavault , screwing over lands enchanted with Underworld Connections , or anything else that gave me a hard time. Heck, it might even be worth it drop that one of Dark Betrayal in the side board for a 3rd Pithing Needle .
Just for recap, my first match up was with a R/W aggro deck which I was easily able to trip up with Blood Baron of Vizkopa . My opponent probably would have fared better if he had remembered to bring his sideboard, but it was an easy 2-0 victory. My second match up was a R/G aggro deck. It was really all about luck of the draw. Game 1 got overwhelmed by Satyr tokens mass produced by Xenagos, The Reveler . Game 2 I stopped that with Pithing Needle . and scored a victory. The 3rd game, was disappointing because I got mana flooded. Though I needled his Planeswalkers, I fell to his creatures without blockers to defend my position ending our match 2-1 in defeat. My third match was a R/W/G Naya Midrange deck. I overwhelmed the board in the first game, Devour Flesh ing my way through her creatures. The second game I was always just a turn behind and couldn't recover. The third game was a repeat of the first one, a complete blowout leading to a 2-1 victory for me. My last match up was with a Mono Black Pack Rat deck. Some misplays on my part led to a 2-1 defeat, but there were other factors involved (some illegal plays on the part of my opponent). So FNM ended 2 - 2 for the night. Afterwards, I engaged in some fun matches playing another Pack Rat deck which I killed. I played a mono blue counterspell deck which was a long game, but I still came out in top because I had too much life to be killed. My last match up was with a Mill deck which cause some serous hand disruption. Thankfully there aren't a lot of good mill decks out there, but this one used control spells to prevent me from casting creatures and held the board with stolen creatures. Over all, a good learning experience with the deck. As such, I am very confident in my recommendations to you.
Again +1 for the very awesome deck idea.
Finest Regards,
TheGodofNight
maddoggsouza says... #3
2 or 3 and I would get rid of Gift of Orzhova .
October 27, 2013 1:04 p.m.