First cut is the deepest... +1 ;) Still trying to figure out all the interactions so a primer would be appreciated indeed. Cheers!

You know what, I think I'll work on that primer tonight. I've got nothing better to do, and I'm only halfway through my can of Monster.

Doesn't Godo, Bandit Warlord only unwrap samurai creatures, so it won't be much help with things like Tilonalli's Summoner or is there some other part to this interaction that I am

Apex, you’re completely right on that. I must have missed the Samurai specification.

So really only a single copy token could attack each time. Still, damage on creatures is cumulative, and it would be a combo of infinite attrition.

Good catch! I’ll revise the deck description after work.

Do you think that pandemonium or warstorm surge could fit in the deck? Seems decent with norin blinking. Pair one of those with furnace of rath of dictate f the twin gods and norin domes for 4 every time he enters.

Masyeldarb, you most certainly could! The thing I like most about Norin is that you can build him in so many different ways (except chaos of course, because that's a waste of his potential imho).

Anything not listed in the "Core" panel could be swapped out for things to better suit your playstyle/table. I just prefer the high-ramp, low CMC build I've got here for myself. Adding damage amplification will definitely make Norin's blinks more painful, but that will also paint a bigger target on your back.

If you plan on building a version of this for yourself, I'd love to hear how it plays!

Torbran, Thane of Red Fell

i ended up cutting Chancellor of the Forge from my norin deck because he requires a board state to be worth playing. plus you already have Myr Battlesphere which is way better. no need for two 7 drops like that. also you should really consider Indomitable Creativity and Warp World they're legitimate wincons for norin. our decks look a lot different but you should check mine out. also maybe add a Fork or something similar?? itll be your ramp or counter spells since this is mono red

sabbc98 I think we have opposing views on Norin, haha. Warp World and Indomitable Creativity are kind of the epitome of chaos, and that's not what I'm about. As a matter of fact, Chancellor of the Forge is one of MY finishers. Since my deck focuses on tokens and ETB-effect duplication, I can reliably wind up with 12-18 gobby bois in one turn with Chancellor. And since the tokens have haste, I can full swing on someone in the same turn if the damage triggers from Purphoros, God of the Forge or Impact Tremors don't kill my opponents first.

The major difference between chaos Norin builds, and what I've constructed here, is reliability. There are all sorts of tutors, ramp, and card draw to help make sure you've got all the pieces you need to overwhelm your table-- as opposed to making the game drag on for hours while figuring out who gets control of which permanents, what the new board state means for everyone's overall strategy, and backtracking to allow for triggers that were missed as a result of said chaos.

As for Torbran, Thane of Red Fell , I would love to put him in, but at the moment there's nothing I'd want to cut for him. Definitely a good suggestion though!

As a side note, I'll eventually be updating the primer with more detailed instructions on how to pilot it. Certain tutors should be used to pull out specific cards depending on the board state, so there's a little nuance in what you want to prioritize.

I wouldn't say my norin is chaos. Indomitable Creativity and Warp World just turn all my tokens into actual cards and can reliably get combos out. instead of having 14 1/1's you can get out 14 permenants. imagine resolving a Warp World with Fanatic of Mogis in the mix

I've been meaning to add Kuldotha Forgemaster how does if perform? also where has Blade of Selves been I'm so glad I stumbled on this decklist

I hadn't thought of using those for swapping tokens for actual permanents; definitely a clever use after all.

I just personally don't like trading in the board state I've built deliberately for something that might be good, but ultimately random.

As for Kuldotha Forgemaster , it's not as difficult to activate as you might expect. With Pia and Kiran Nalaar , Myr Battlesphere , or Genesis Chamber you should have plenty of artifacts to sac to it; although in a pinch you can sacrifice any baubles or artifact lands instead.

One thing I haven't seen a lot of people doing is using Treasure tokens as a means of tutoring with Forgemaster, or to recur artifacts from the graveyard with Daretti, Scrap Savant , Goblin Welder , etc. I've only ever managed to pull it off once though, with Dockside Extortionist . I just wish there was more support for Treasure in mono-red. The cards that DO exist are pretty underwhelming when compared to Pitiless Plunderer or Revel in Riches .

Blade of Selves will change your life. There are soooooo many good creatures you can equip it to. My favorite is probably Myr Battlesphere since you can stack the triggers in such a way that you're able to tap all the Myr generated by the copies in order to pump the original Battlesphere (the copies enter the battlefield already attacking, and as such won't trigger effects that require you to DECLARE them as attackers).

Indomitable Creativity isn't as random since it only grabs artifacts and creatures. and I sympathize about treasure tokens. we need Smothering Tithe in red

Planar Bridge > Ring of 3 wish. 10 mana to just get a card in your hand or more mana to get any permanent (your deck is all permanents) onto the battlefield.

Mishra's Workshop and a Wheel of Fortune can put in some serious work but I'm assuming you have excluded them due to budget constraints.

This deck is a fine piece of work, I like how it's actually tuned. I have a Norin deck myself but it's more good stuff with some synergy I hope to find through wheels and draw.

How is grinning ingus been for you?

NOTE: Description of Kiki + Meteor golem = nonland permanent, not permanent.

I know you're avg CMC is low (for mono red norin anyways) and you run a shit ton of ramp. How is getting land drops been? I still sometimes struggle to get lands even with 38 lands

Profet93 Hadn't thought of Planar Bridge but the fact that it brings it straight to the battlefield is definitely a plus. I may see about working it in after this next round of playtests.

As for budget, you hit the nail on the head there. I do have a Magus of the Wheel in another deck that I've considered adding to Norin's War Party though.

Grinning Ignus honestly hasn't done as much for me as I would like. Originally I'd envisioned being able to pick it up and recast it several times a turn with certain other cards in place to reduce cost or generate mana via token sacrifice. But so far the pieces have never come together properly.

I was worried about running only 30 lands as well, but after extensive playtesting I've found that as long as I'm playing on curve I normally don't have a problem. Hell, there have been games where I've kept a hand with only a single land and been just fine.

When I expand the deck description at some point in the future, I plan on going into more detail regarding the early game. Suffice it to say that if you keep an opening hand with low average CMC, you can still expect to grow your board state every turn.

Fair points.

I just realized that Ingus + Ruby Medallion + Impact = GG

What's your meta like, focused, optimized, semi-competitive, competitive, jank, casual? Amount of interaction? Decks you play against?

Have you considered Trading Post ? Provides chump blockers or fodder for skull clamp (gives you goats, yell BAH at your opponents), artifact recursion, a draw outlet and lifegain in a pinch.

Honestly, the table I play with is pretty casual. Mostly goodstuff decks with minimal interaction, so I haven't worked in all that much recursion. Trading Post is a great suggestion though (I mean, who doesn't want to yell BAH! at opportune moments?).

Good call on Medallion and Ignus btw. I feel like I realized that a while back but just.. forgot about it. lol Because of the relatively chill nature of my playgroup, I tend to avoid infinite combos anyway.

Actually, now I remember why I didn't have Ignus and Medallion listed together as a combo. Because it takes to return him to your hand, and the added to your mana pool is only enough to recast him, you're limited by the amount of generated from other sources.

That's why you need Genesis Chamber and Thermopod or Phyrexian Altar to maintain the loop infinitely.

I hope that explanation is readable; I'm dead tired and running on caffeine atm.

IMO you have a decent amount of recursion for red. If you honestly, feel you don't have too much recursion then I will suggest relic of progenitus to replace tomord crpyt (I see it's already in your maybe board). It replaces itself, hits all opponents, etc...

Also, what do you use for tokens? I like to bling up my decks with alters, cool tokens, deck boxes, etc.... I've seen people use unhinged goblin tokens and they look nice.

For whatever reason the sections in your comment refuse to expand, no matter which computer/browser I'm using. At the very least I can see the cards you suggested including.

I'm still not a fan of Confusion in the Ranks , however. This deck is so meticulous about achieving a consistent board state via draw and tutors, I wouldn't want to risk an opponent snatching something vital that I spent resources obtaining. Also, at some point I actually DID run Sunbird's Invocation , but that's really only so effective in a deck with low average CMC. It's better in big mana decks imho.

Also, the decision to make the deck entirely permanents was deliberate. I tend to run low instant/sorcery counts in a lot of my decks anyway, but here I opted for MAXIMUM DURDLE. Still, I listed some of the ones I'd otherwise include in the Maybeboard, because I know my peculiarities aren't universal and if someone else were to build a similar Norin, they'd likely include things like Chaos Warp , Scrap Mastery , etc.

I also have a bit of an OCD when it comes to cards with old-school borders/backgrounds. Simply put, I can't play them. It wigs me out. I know it's dumb and irrational, and gimps me from using some really powerful old cards in my deckbuilding; but it's also forced me to get creative in finding ways to achieve similar effects using more modern cards (even if they're often slightly less cost-efficient).

I am experiencing the same issue, I don't even remember everything I recommended and have no idea why it isn't expanding :/

Fair point on the suggestions, never really considered that.

Regarding the old school borders, I am in a similar boat. While I do play them, it really does pain me. There are some times I just cast the card to get it out of my hand, so I understand where you're coming from. If thats a concern, maybe consider an alter or custom proxy of the card.

Question. Why Ruby Medallion? Only 20 of your 70 non-lands benefit from this. Wouldn't something such as Fire Diamond or Heart of Ramos fill that slot a little better? Potentially also something like Cloud Key or Ugin, the Ineffable?

I know they are generally higher on the curve, but thought they warranted suggestion.

That's actually a very good point, HawkRider. At some point previous I think I had enough red spells to warrant Ruby Medallion because it was likely I'd be casting at least 2 per turn, and mitigating 2CMC total, whereas Fire Diamond only ramps me a single per turn.

I also like the Cloud Key suggestion. I may pick one up when it's safe to visit my LGS again.

If you see any other opportunities, please don't hesitate to comment. This deck has been constantly evolving since its inception.