BlackyMTG I don't really think Judith, the Scourge Diva or Mayhem Devil are good fits here. I'm not really running any cards like Blood Artist or etc. It's definitely one of the more classic aristocrats style win cons, but I've gone a different route. you could build around that type of effect if you wanted to though. as a stand alone card though i think since mayhem devil and judith only target one player/creature at a time they're going to be lack luster compared to ones which hit multiple like blood artist.

Serkus Like you said, Kira makes some trouble when targeting our own things, which occasionally is an issue, but not terribly often. even still the effect is only marginally worth it i think. the deck is already largely immune to "destroy" effects so Kira's only purpose really is to give some resistance to exile effects (which we can already deal with by sacrificing creatures anyway) it's an option, but at ~$15 i don't know that it's really worth it. I'd think another sac outlet or counter spell would go further.

Lokotor How has fleshwrither been working for you? Being able to tutor a 4 drop like that seems quite strong. Also, have you seen the new Yawgmoth? Seems insane in this deck.

Serkus I haven't gone through the rounds fully testing Fleshwrither , Smothering Abomination , and Spark Double yet. They were all added at the same time shortly after WAR dropped, so it just hasn't been long enough for me to say yet. so far things are going well though.

I plan to test the new Yawgmoth, Thran Physician as well, assuming he is not $$$$. my guess would be that I'd drop something like Smothering Abomination or Impaler Shrike as they're also 4 drops that act as card draw. i'm leaning on shrike at the moment, but time will tell.

I think yawgmoth is a good fit. he gives a sac outlet and card draw, along with possibly some removal (I wouldn't count on it though). i'm hoping to pick one up in the near future if i can.

Hey what do you think of Krenko, Tinstreet Kingpin? Seems powerful.

Serkus

Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin is a good aggro threat. I don't think he's substantially different in function than a card like Grave Titan or something similar.

he creates his own +1 counter and gives us some free sacrifice fodder and both of those are good things, but ultimately he's just a (resilient) aggro threat. at CMC3 i think he's definitely worthwhile in that role too. for me, I'm not looking for that type of card at the moment, but he is on my radar for sure.

I'm pretty happy with using evasive creatures like Thief of Sanity , Nicol Bolas, the Ravager  ^Flip, Smothering Abomination , Wurmcoil Engine , Drana, Liberator of Malakir , etc... as aggro threats at the moment.

I'd say krenko is a good choice in that role and would recommend giving him a try if you need that.

A few questions:

Do you find that Wurmcoil Engine is substantial enough option for when you need some life gain? Are you tutoring for it often? How about Basilisk Collar?

I play a somewhat slower wizard tribal (mostly) list, but have had a couple of games recently where I got targeted hard, and my inability to gain some life back meant that I couldn't dig myself out of a hole that I might have been able to with just a bit more life.

Do you find Drana's ability to throw +1/+1 counters on your team to be relevant for Marchesa's ability often? That is, are you frequently using Drana to make up for not being able to swing at an opponent on the throne?

How often would you say you've used Fleshwrither? Do you find you get to reuse him much? I had tried it for a while, but found the sorcery speed and 7 mana too often meant I was either not getting the activation, or taking a turn off to essentially do nothing, though my list is heavy at 4 mana.

Do you activate Voidmage Prodigy often? Again, I had tried him for a while, but found that I rarely had enough to cast and activate him, not to mention keeping up mana to activate him in a turn cycle.

yeti1069

I find wurmcoil is fantastic. Being able to sacrifice him a few times and accumulate a half dozen lifelink tokens usually is more than enough to secure my life total. I don't often tutor specifically for Basilisk Collar but I have for wurmcoil often enough.

If you need more lifegain try things like Blood Artist and Gray Merchant of Asphodel

Drana, Liberator of Malakir has some added utility in that, because of first strike, she puts the counters on before damage and can help either boost an attak or clear a board. It helps both with situations where dethrone is hard / impossible to get and where I just need a bit more oomph. I do like having her. Also as a low CMC evasive creature she does good work. It's really important to be able to reliably get counters out there and drana can get them on the whole team all at once.

Fleshwrither is a recent addition so I can't say for certain yet. I'm still in the testing phases. I think being able to trigger him even 2-3 times in a game has great potential though.

In wizard tribal I would think Voidmage Prodigy would be even better. I have generally found that the threat of being able to counter anything usually deters a lot and often there's not more than one card that really needs to be countered in any given turn cycle. I also look at him as a sac outlet considering I am running a not insignificant number of wizards.

Thanks for the reply!

I'll have to try them out.

I'm thinking Blood Artist might be a better include than Basilisk Collar since it can be tutored with Imperial Recruiter, being a creature fits better, and is a win con in addition to helping me adjust my life total. I had been thinking Zulaport Cutthroat, but then remembered that Blood Artist can target myself, so if I DON'T want to gain life, his triggers can be a net 0 effect, and if I want to bring one player down but leave someone else on the throne, I have that option as well. What do you think? I may try Basilisk Collar as well, since you've had a good experience with it, and it can be a solid defensive card when needed.

Wurmcoil I'm weighing against Kokusho. In the last game where life total was an issue, I basically had one turn where I could tutor for something to try and get out of the hole I was in--Basilisk Collar would have helped, as would have Blood Artist, and Kokusho, but Wurmcoil wouldn't since it wouldn't have been able to attack. Maybe a corner case, but I feel like if I NEED life gain, I may not be able to wait a turn cycle to swing. That said, Blood Artist needs creatures and sac outlets or a board wipe in hand, and Kokusho needs a sac outlet and no anti-graveyard effects in play.

Drana I think I'll have to try out. I think I originally went wizard tribal because I was taking Inalla apart, and all of my good vampires were in an Edgar Markov deck, but since I've taken that apart, it may be time to retool Marchesa with some overall stronger cards...

...but, I may try Voidmage Prodigy before dumping too many wizards. I've just felt like I have a hard enough time leaving up for Siren Stormtamer, let alone for this guy, but I've wanted him in there.

I've found Puppeteer Clique to be really excellent in many games, using it to recur an opponent's utility creature (Reclamation Sage, Acidic Slime, card draw, recursion, tutoring...all sorts of stuff!), or big finisher (have had more than one game where I grabbed a Craterhoof Behemoth from the grave to win). Plus, it goes infinite with a few cards in the deck, if that's what you want (I don't particularly, but have "Oops, I win" a few times).

I grabbed an opponent's Reef Wurm once and it was RIDICULOUS. Haven't brought myself to run it yet, but it was so good.

yeti1069

you make a good point about blood artist, being able to hit yourself is a nice bonus. i went with basilisk collar so that I could equip it to whatever i needed on the fly, possibly using it to dissuade attacks or to gain life in whatever amount i needed. it's also just a little harder to remove than creatures are which is good.

if you're looking for something just to gain you some life i really do recommend Gray Merchant of Asphodel as he'll more likely than not come in and net you at least 15 life without much effort.

blood artist, basilisk collar, gary, kokusho, etc... they all fill the same role, just at different mana costs. personally i would go for the lower end more often than not.

for me Wurmcoil Engine works well. if i have an Arcbound Worker around it gets silly, and even if you can't attack, as long as you're not in Lightning Bolt range or up against a flying creature you can still gain plenty of life on defense and it's off to the races once you can attack with it.

Drana, Liberator of Malakir is a nice safety net. if you're on the throne but not very far ahead in board state it gives you a way to keep the engine's turning. she's cheap and aggressive and does what we need. you could make due without her, but for me it's been a good time.

if you're having trouble keeping open you may need to work on your mana base or try adding a few more rocks. the good thing about this deck is that it usually doesn't have too much trouble only playing a card or two per turn while still maintaining advantage. our creatures rarely stay dead, so in a battle of attrition we're usually far ahead. clearing the board once and not losing anything means we can afford to play cards a bit slower and keep mana open.

like i said, Voidmage Prodigy isn't just protection, but also a sac outlet, so keep that in mind.

i touch on Puppeteer Clique in my primer's writeup, so if you have any questions about it that I don't answer there let me know.

Great comments!

My issue with keeping mana up is more that I'm spending all my mana on most turns. I run 9 rocks--the relevant Signets and Talismans, Fellwar, Sol Ring, and Commander's Sphere, plus Solemn does some work (when he shows up).

Honestly, we all know Unspeakable Symbol is one of the key cards in this deck.

I would argue Drana, Liberator of Malakir is too.

I've started running Vindictive Lich and it has been working really well. In addition to its versatile effect it is a wizard so it combos nicely with sage of fables and voidmage prodigy. I recommend you give it a try. Also will you be putting in the r/u talisman in your deck?

Serkus I don't have enough u/r cards to need the talisman I think.

I've thought about lich but I prefer just using a combination of Nicol Bolas, the Ravager  ^Flip and Plaguecrafter to get the same effects

May I recommend one staple per color:

Gamble

Toxic Deluge

Consecrated Sphinx

Love your list and will be updating mine with some of your cards, thank you for sharing :)

JonnyG21

I think given the availability of cards like Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor , that Gamble isn't really needed.

Toxic Deluge is definitely a good option, I just don't have $30 to spend on it, especially where Blasphemous Act and Cyclonic Rift and etc have been fine thus far. indestructibility hasn't been too big of an issue, especially with plenty of Grave Pact type effects on hand.

Consecrated Sphinx is a great card, but it's a bit high on the curve for me. Yawgmoth, Thran Physician , Baleful Strix , Solemn Simulacrum , etc.. have all been plenty of draw for me most games.

there's definitely something to be said for including these cards, but for me I don't think they're a good fit right now.

Hey, I think you should consider running scroll of fate from the C19 morph deck. Seems like a really strong card as you can cheat in some higher cost creatures or just create a 2/2 out of a signet or land in the late game. I haven't tried it yet but thieving amalgam from the morph deck also looks quite strong, although it is high cmc.

Serkus Check the "Considered Cards" section of the primer! ;)

Ohh ok thanks for that. I should've looked there before leaving a comment.

Hey! Big fan of your deck and I cam currently making a list for myself base off of it. I was wondering if you had ever considered Imperial Recruiter, since it hits most of your creatures and can be recurred by Marchesa

sparinghydra

Imperial Recruiter is a good card, but it's $40. If you have one I'd go for it. Probably cut Fleshwrither for him.

Do u find youself drawing enough without the help of the staples

Necropotence and Rhystic Study ?

Whoops my bad

Isn't Arcbound Worker + Marchesa = infinite alter triggers? Why no Goblin Bombardment?