Marchesa, The Black Rose - Primer

Commander / EDH Lokotor

SCORE: 163 | 195 COMMENTS | 65145 VIEWS | IN 70 FOLDERS


Lokotor says... #1

Quodan

I'm not really vibing with it for this list. If you're running Grave Betrayal then it's an easy swap in my opinion.

I think this card plays better in a Threaten build than it does in an aristocrats build, so if your list is more in that vein then it might be something to consider.

September 20, 2021 10:53 p.m.

yeti1069 says... #2

I keep looking at Gisa, but I feel like the deck doesn't kill opponents' creatures often enough for it to be very reliable, and if Gisa leaves play and comes back in between the creature dying and your upkeep you don't get the control trigger. Given how many ways the deck has available to steal opponents' creatures directly, I don't know that it needs a theft piece that requires additional hoops to jump through. I AM looking at her for my Meren deck, on the other hand.

I think I would only run Resculpt over Reality Shift in a meta with a lot of must-remove artifacts/indestructible artifacts. The ability for Shift to blank a second card is pretty valuable.

December 30, 2021 9:05 a.m.

Lokotor says... #3

yeti1069

Right on both counts I think. Like you said, Gisa isn't especially better than any other Threaten effect, and I basically look at it as being slightly cheaper Grave Betrayal which I don't run both for it's MV and for the fact that the effect isn't that important.

generally most of the time this deck ends up killing opponent's creatures with things like Grave Pact or Fleshbag Marauder kinds of effects, so there's definitely some ability to get the triggers, but that's also putting the choice in your opponent's hand, so you'll usually end up with a token or meh creature you don't particularly need.

All in all, I just think there's better 4 drops to run than Gisa, Glorious Resurrector.

as for Resculpt, I agree, it's generally worse than Reality Shift. however it's still a 1U instant speed exile effect, so it's definitely got a place in some decks. exile based spot removal is an important effect to have, so whatever you choose I'd recommend having at least a few such cards if you can. Ravenform is a similar card, but sorcery speed certainly hurts it compared to other options. Deadly Rollick is also out of many player's budgets I'd imagine.

December 30, 2021 11:03 a.m.

EmperorPenguin says... #4

Nice deck! I'm currently buildng Marchesa and notice that you can choose many ways like aristocrat, etb, aggro, stealing creatures...

What do you think about this suggestions: - Krav, the Unredeemed: Its a 5mv but works as a lifegain, sac outlet and draw. - Immersturm Predator: Sac outlet with auto +1/+1 with fliying and indestructible - Juri, Master of the Revue - Black Marquet - Terror of the Peaks

January 10, 2022 5:54 p.m.

yeti1069 says... #5

I'll say that I really like Krav, and ended up taking it out just to lower the curve, since it's basically a 6 mana spell.

Immersturm looks decent, but I don't like that it taps itself. On Arena I've had awkward moments where the ability meant I didn't have a blocker when I needed one. For the same cost and a similar effect you can run Falkenrath Aristocrat.

Juri and Terror both look good.

January 14, 2022 12:04 p.m.

Lokotor says... #6

EmperorPenguin

Immersturm Predator is fine, but there are better choices in my opinion. Yahenni, Undying Partisan has many of the same upsides, but comes out for less mana and less colors. Immersturm is probably better than Falkenrath Aristocrat in my opinion, though I haven't tested it.

Krav, the Unredeemed similarly there are just better options out there. Yawgmoth, Thran Physician is obviously miles better, of course, these cards cost more $$ as well, so that's a consideration for sure. However, my budget list doesn't run these guys either, to be fair. A main concern is definitely that it both costs 5 to play AND has an activation cost on top of that. It's super important to play this kind of deck as fast and low to the ground as possible.

Juri, Master of the Revue is basically just a Lightning Bolt most of the time. It's not like that's terrible, but I'd rather just run something more impactful like Plaguecrafter as a means of controlling the board.

Black Market I've never really felt like I needed the mana from this honestly. Especially with the relatively easy access to 2MV mana rocks these days. As long as you have a decent amount of card draw you should be fine in most games in my opinion.

Terror of the Peaks is basically a better version of Flayer of the Hatebound so if you had wanted to run that, then Terror of the Peaks is the way to go. You can see in my primer that I don't think the effect is too important generally though. It's a high mana value card that requires you to already have a lot of other pieces in play to really take advantage of it, and I think there's better payoffs you could be running comparatively. It's best in a slower meta, but it's certainly playable as a top end of your mana curve card though.

January 14, 2022 2:40 p.m.

Quodan says... #7

Lokotor, what land cards would you take out and add to this deck to make it even more deadly ? ( Cavern of Souls , Hall of the Bandit Lord , Ancient Tomb , etc etc )

January 30, 2022 4:47 p.m.

Lokotor says... #8

Quodan I would mainly just improve my duals/fetch situation if I could. Utility land wise, I don't think there are many that I am not currently running which I feel are particularly needed. Ancient Tomb is probably something you could try, but i'm not sure it's necessary.

January 30, 2022 10:24 p.m.

Surgesyndicate says... #9

The new Iron Apprentice from NEO would be a fantastic replacement for Arcbound Worker. Gets around the artifact creature restrictions.

February 24, 2022 10:12 a.m.

Lokotor says... #10

Surgesyndicate

Already in the mail my dude. by far the best card in years for marchesa

Updates to the list are coming in the near future.

Atsushi, the Blazing Sky also will be making an appearance.

February 25, 2022 2:29 p.m. Edited.

Lokotor says... #11

Kamigawa Neon Dynasty Updates!

February 27, 2022 2:34 p.m.

Gorbah says... #12

Nice brew, but i'm missing a Flayer of the Hatebound here... That card destroys the table. Check out my build if u want


Roses are Black and Violets are Blue

Commander / EDH Gorbah

SCORE: 8 | 10 COMMENTS | 832 VIEWS | IN 5 FOLDERS


March 18, 2022 3:11 p.m.

Lokotor says... #13

Gorbah

I actually used to run Flayer back in the early days, along with Stalking Vengeance, but they’re both just so incredibly expensive. By the stage of the game you're likely to play these cards, their effects aren’t as important in my experience. For 6-8 mana there’s a lot of better things you can be doing. How many games have they just sat in your hand as you say “hmm I’ll play them next turn maybe” because you had other things you needed to do with your mana?

I don't find myself in enough of a durdly meta to make it practical.

March 19, 2022 5:21 p.m.

Gorbah says... #14

Lokotor,

When (and she always should) Marchesa is on board + sac outlet, Flayer of the Hatebound is like the best thing to play. You can deal 9 damage EACH turn to ANY target... Burn down your opponents on their own turn is pure gold for me. I have won so many games with this creature in my playgroups and my LGS. Give it a try again... he won't disappoint you.

Greetz

March 21, 2022 3:49 a.m.

Last_Laugh says... #15

@Gorbah It's also the perfect answer to Solemnity. Undying keeps triggering thanks to that blocked counter lol.

March 21, 2022 1:50 p.m.

Quodan says... #16

Lokotor I’ve learned from you that scry is an important tool to Marchesa. Is Sensei's Divining Top a card you might add in the near future to help with this ?

March 21, 2022 11:50 p.m.

Lokotor says... #17

Quodan

Scry is one of many card selection tools that can be used, the most important thing is to see as many cards in a game as possible really, as that ensures you'll have what you need to win.

Top is good if you have a way to reliably remove bad cards from the top of your deck, such as by shuffling, milling, etc. in Constructed formats like Legacy, you have a lot of fetch lands, such as Polluted Delta that can facilitate this. In EDH that's not necessarily the case. depending on how many cards you have in your deck that can manipulate the top of your library it'll become a better and better card. for me, I don't think I have quite enough density of those effects to get peak advantage from Top, but it's certainly a good tool to have in the arsenal.

April 1, 2022 8:22 p.m.

Quodan says... #18

Lokotor, they spoiled a card called ; Mahadi, Emporium Master. Do you think this card is a good fit for Marchesa ? If so whose on the chopping block creature wise for it ?

May 31, 2022 5:55 a.m.

Last_Laugh says... #19

I'd say yes it's worth it and I'd personally cut Mari, the Killing Quill for it. I don't think you have enough assassins, rogues, or mercenaries to make Mari consistent.

May 31, 2022 12:14 p.m.

Quodan says... #20

Last_Laugh in total honesty I think Talisman of Creativity would be my choice if in Lokotor or your position.

May 31, 2022 3:02 p.m.

Lokotor says... #21

Quodan Last_Laugh

I don't think Mahadi, Emporium Master quite makes it. The fact that it can only trigger on your own turn makes it a bit too limited for my liking. I would probably go for Pawn of Ulamog in that slot as it both gives mana and an additional body to sacrifice for more value if you prefer. If you're looking for something in this slot and not running Pitiless Plunderer you may want to consider that.

Mari, the Killing Quill is currently still in the testing phase for me. I've only been able to get her out a couple times so far (I probably should just tutor for her in games) but she can trigger on her own as she is an assassin, and the fact that she gives herself deathtouch comes in handy as well. Additionally, the exile triggers on a creature dying for any reason, independent of having any rogues etc, which is very handy given how common graveyard decks are.

Alongside her I have Dauthi Voidwalker and Oona's Blackguard for tribally relevant cards, but I would like to get maybe one or two more playable cards in that vein to be totally happy. Among current options Zulaport Cutthroat, Ghostly Pilferer, Morbid Opportunist, Grim Hireling, Murderous Redcap, Guildpact Informant, and Glasspool Mimic  Flip strike me as being possibilities, but I'm not sure where I want to go on it at the moment.

I prefer Talisman of Creativity over situational ramp cards like Mahadi since it's valuable even on an empty board. If anything I'd cut something like Mari or something that similarly creates situational value in a different area, like Thief of Sanity if I felt I'd prefer to trade card advantage for more ramp.

June 1, 2022 12:28 a.m.

Slashdance says... #22

Glen Elendra Archmage Looks like it could have a home here. =)

I'm not sure if you like infinite combos in your deck or if it's okay in your meta, but you already have the pieces for available to create infinite damage, life, mana, or card draw with Glen Elendra, too.

But even without, having a recurring counterspell seems legit. =)

July 7, 2022 12:21 a.m.

dlombart says... #23

Could Etrata, the Silencer be a useful addition as an assassin? Could even be an alternate wincon, since Mari, the Killing Quill exiles cards with a hit counter. Three of those and an Etrata hit would mean 'game over'. Etrata herself could easily be sacced on the combat trigger and return to the battlefield.

July 8, 2022 12:08 p.m.

dlombart says... #24

Would Nautiloid Ship be a viable graveyard hate card? Exiles GY's, and makes you use those cards. It dies as a creature with a +1/+1, so it should return to the battlefield, even though it's a vehicle in the GY?

July 9, 2022 3:18 p.m.

alexjustdoit says... #25

dlombart - its only useful to be sacced when its crewed, seems very restrictive, if what youre looking for is good GY hate

July 9, 2022 6:29 p.m.

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