8 mana is a lot of mana - can you really cast Craterhoof Behemoth? Siege Rhino + Cloudshift probably wins the game too
February 6, 2015 5:04 p.m.
hubatish, I agree, 8 is a lot of mana - however, Craterhoof Behemoth is intended as a late game finisher, not a primary wincon. That's a why I only run one. If the game last past T9 or T10 the Behemoth becomes viable. It has won me a whole bunch of games though. Thanks for the comment and the importunity to elaborate.
February 6, 2015 5:12 p.m.
awesomealex77 says... #4
You have a great set of win conditions, the best thing I like about this deck couldn't be shut down too easily with Illness in the Ranks or similar effects. Tokens are a strong win condition, but they can be dealt with easily. Your cards all work together rather nicely, I ecpecially like how Thragtusk has at least some kind of value with Intangible Virtue. Your control is pretty widespread and capable of dealing with more than one board state.
I would suggest Beckon Apparition in this deck, along with an additional fetchland. Beckon Apparition will, in the correct deck, at the very least give you a 1/1 flyer turn one. At best it shuts out Vengevine, Bloodghast, Gravecrawler or other strong graveyard cards. It is also instant speed, which is awesome in any control, allowing trick blocks and last second reactions. Plus it gives you an early blocker, with flying, allowing you to set up your deck for a later game win.
If it were up to me, I would drop Murderous Cut and Bojuka Bog from your side board, put 2x Path to Exile into your sideboard, and add 2x Beckon Apparition to your main board. Also dropping one Intangible Virtue for one Glorious Anthem just so you don't have multiple instances of vigalence.
You would be supprised how much 4 white or black fetchlands and a couple Beckon Apparitions can help you. In my deck, Flying Spooky Ghosts!, the game progresses kind of slowly while I try to combo off for one of two win condition and I would say about half of my games I have my little 1/1 buddy out there gaurding me with his life turn one.
Let me know what you think!
February 6, 2015 6:23 p.m.
GorechildXIII says... #5
i think finding a way to add Flickerwisp to this deck would be amazing.
February 6, 2015 11:13 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #6
It seems hard to justify 4 Intangible Virtue with only 10 token generators.
February 7, 2015 6:18 a.m.
I agree with Jex, I would think Honor of the Pure would be better for you.
February 7, 2015 10:37 a.m.
rmkinnaird says... #8
I would recommend dropping the intangible virtues for Restoration Angel. Your deck also doesnt need the Raise the alrms. you should decide tokens or ETB and stick with your decision
February 7, 2015 10:52 a.m.
It can function with both though. Raise the Alarm and Lingering Souls are not bad cards. Souls is huge value, and Raise the Alarm can function as removals, or mess up people's math.
February 7, 2015 10:56 a.m.
nutellaisgreaterthanlife says... #10
Restoration Angel would be sweet in here
February 7, 2015 1:52 p.m.
awesomealex77 I don't know if the anthem is really that much better than Intangible Virtue. Intangible Virtue is cheaper, and he'd probably only ever cast anthems to buff tokens, so, ya know, I don't know if it's THAT good.
February 7, 2015 1:53 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #12
As a note, Kitchen Finks cannot die 4 times with 1 flicker effect, only 3.
Also, with only 1 in 6 cards having synergy with Intangible Virtue, I dont know if it is worth running when it will often have little impact on your boardstate.
I agree that craterhoof behemoth is far out of your mana curve, and possibly Rancor would be a good replacement. Its much more aggresive, which this deck wants, and still gives you that trample you are looking for.
February 7, 2015 3:01 p.m.
nutellaisgreaterthanlife says... #13
I would also say that Intangible Virtue is not that useful. It's a bad topdeck, and really not worth it as the amount of tokens you have isn't that large. I would drop those, move Beckon Apparition to the sideboard and add in Restoration Angel, another Siege Rhino and a Blade Splicer. If you want more fun try Trostani, Selesnya's Voice. When you blink Thragtusk you will gain 19 life :P
February 7, 2015 3:28 p.m.
19 life? I think that's some bad math. Depends on what you're blinking with though.
February 7, 2015 4:19 p.m.
KrosanTusker says... #15
Adding another voice to the Restoration Angel campaign. Also +1!
February 7, 2015 4:46 p.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #16
February 8, 2015 2 a.m.
Ghostway could be backbreaking, but it also requires somewhat of a full commitment to the ETB route. Ghostway would eat up the tokens, and Ghostway is useless without any creatures out. Restoration Angel has a body, so almost always relevant, and it and Cloudshift can nullify targeted removal with little drawback, usually good upsides as well.
February 8, 2015 6:52 a.m.
Thank you for all the comments, suggestions and UpVotes. Very much appreciated. I have added Restoration Angel to the mainboard and have dropped one Intangible Virtue and the Behemoth. Seems to be running very smoothly and is killing it! Thanks all.
February 8, 2015 2:03 p.m.
CrazyCrackCarl says... #21
Ever consider Gavony Township or Vault of the Archangel?
February 9, 2015 10:28 p.m.
Jamesfurrow says... #22
Idk why this hasn't been suggested yet but Voice of Resurgence would be a very solid card in a token shell. Also it screws with blue decks and makes black decks have to have an awnser for the token at the ready as well. It's low curve. Has to almost always be 2-1 oned (ik path and thoughtseize) and simply keeps their plays in check. I also find your removal seems a little small. Consider using Maelstrom Pulse? Even as sideboard material that spell will take care of a lot of problems you normally couldn't deal with. Also for man lands consider Beast Within because decay can't touch those!
All in all solid deck just thought these ideas might give some insight
February 9, 2015 11:51 p.m.
Love the name of this deck. Have you considered Chord of Calling? I'm not sure how great it will be, but there's a decent number of creatures and token generators. Seems like it's worth testing.
February 10, 2015 2:04 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #24
No discard? Really boyo?
Here are the changes I would do.
Remove:
Add:
Here's my reasoning. Intangible Virtue is mainly a WB token card. Tokens are a win condition of themselves, and in a deck that already houses heavy beaters, you don't need tokens to become very powerful. Intangible Virtue is used in token decks because tokens are their main win condition. They attack and block with tokens. Thusly the WB token build needs to have something to power up their tokens otherwise they'll never be able to face off decks with toughness heavy creatures or anything with lifegain. You have creatures to back the tokens up, the tokens are there just for added flavor and power. In that, you don't need to focus any cards around them.
Thragtusk is pretty high up there on 5 mana, and with my suggestion of taking out Birds of Paradise, it is a little too risky. Not too mention the needing to save mana for a Cloudshift, makes it pretty much 6 mana, or the need to play almost anything else that turn hurts your ability to cast it.
This deck has like, nothing to prevent combo. Scapeshift is what I'm focusing on in particular, and Bloom Titan's resiliency to removal because of numerous proc's would destroy you. You have Abrupt Decay for Splinter Twin, but Abrupt Decay doesn't stop Hive Mind and is unlikely to prevent all of the pieces that helps to proc it. I'm thinking that this deck is also a little weak against tron, because a Wurmcoil Engine can do serious damage to your deck. However you do have tokens to deal with their creatures and Cloudshift + Restoration Angel to deal with Oblivion Stone and Karn Liberated.
The discard is key for a deck like this. It helps to prevent combo and control. So Scapeshift, Bloom Titan, Splinter Twin and Tron are all hit hard. Liliana of the Veil is also superb against boggles if you ever see it by chance, and is awesome against Tron.
The reason for Tarmogoyf: If you are running green, you should be running Tarmogoyf. It is a much more effective beater than Kitchen Finks, and the lifegain of two-six isn't too relevant even if it lasts. The other main reason for removing Kitchen Finks is because if you are using Liliana of the Veil, (which you should be using her) Kitchen Finks loses its value because it is in contest with the same position. Liliana of the Veil is also good with getting rid of pointless Thoughtseizes and Lingering Souls helps with her discard cost. Extra land is meant for her too. But another reason for Tarmogoyf, is that you have almost no turn 2 board presence plan. Raise the Alarm and Intangible Virtue are pitiful. A turn 2 Tarmogoyf is really threatening and must be answered then. It is even better when a turn 1 Thoughtseize preceded it. Ideal game play: Turn 1 Thoughtseize, Turn 2 Tarmogoyf, Turn 3 Liliana of the Veil.
For your sideboard here's what I'd do.
Remove:
- 1x Beast Within
- 2x Beckon Apparition
- 2x Kataki, War's Wage
- 2x Kor Firewalker
- 1x Restoration Angel
- 2x Silence
- 1x Surgical Extraction
- 2x Voice of Resurgence
Add:
- 2x Ghost Quarter
- 2x Scavenging Ooze
- 2x Suppression Field
- 2x Thrun, the Last Troll
- 3x Timely Reinforcements
- 2x Wilt-Leaf Liege
Here are my choices. Most of your cards are sub-par to deal with what is in the format. While I don't know what's good to deal with Bloom Titan, I feel that Ghost Quarter and discard spells are your best bet. Ghost Quarter also deals with UWx control's manlands and Tron lands, allowing you to hit too more archetypes, one which could potentially screw you over.
Beckon Apparition won't work against Dredge decks, because that is only one card used and one card taken away. They have many dredge cards. Scavenging Ooze is the best bet here as it can be used numerous times, and also works as a sort of life-gain advantage, and long term game plan with it's counters.
Suppression Field is here to hose two different decks. One is affinity, and the other is Splinter Twin. Activateable abilities on artifacts is the main reason focus of affinity. Remove that, and they are screwed. It also removes the infinite status of Splinter Twin, as tapping now costs an additional 2 mana.
Thrun, the Last Troll is better than Voice of Resurgence against control spells because, well, control can't do anything about it. Especially not without discard. A top decked Thrun will win you the game against control as it can't be countered or removed, and is stronger than Geist of Saint Traft and can come out sooner and deal more damage sooner than UWx's man lands. It is also excellent against U Tron as it stops Wurmcoil Engine from hitting you in the face as you get time to build up your forces, regenerates against Oblivion Stone, and can be Cloudshifted against Karn Liberated.
Normally I'd say to use Leyline of Sanctity. Normally. But with discard and a whole host of other sideboard options, not too mention not having to worry about being discarded yourself (benefits of being midrange), Leyline of Sanctity loses its focus as an all round good sideboard card. The drawbacks of price just don't warrant its inclusion in a midrange deck. I'd say go Timely Reinforcements against the aggro decks. It is an excellent surprise to stop their creatures and gain you life at the same time, and fits nicely in the role of Lingering Souls.
Wilt-Leaf Liege is my last suggestion. Now you could run Loxodon Smiter, but I think the anthem effect + the ability to annoy opposing Liliana of the Veil players makes it an all star. It fits right in where your Intangible Virtue was once supposed to be but instead, buffs ALL of your creatures, AND your Siege Rhino twice!
February 10, 2015 7:47 p.m.
Femme_Fatale, thank you so much for your thorough analysis of my deck. I really appreciate your suggestions. As you can see, my sideboard has been greatly effected by your keen suggestions. Also, I have added in 3 Thoughtseize into my MB. The hand disruption element via Thoughtseize is something I had been considering for this deck for some time. It is an excellent and necessary fit.
Although all of your suggestions are great, Femme_Fatale, there are a few things I am not going to change about this deck. And these are my reasons:
First, Birds of Paradise is an amazing T1 card. From a tempo perspective, it means I can play T2 as though it where T3 and cast cards like Kitchen Finks or Lingering Souls. It makes for a more aggro start to the game and it means there is a lesser need for 2 drops within the deck.
Kitchen Finks fits very nicely into the synergy of this deck. In best case scenario, it comes in T2 and needs to be answered. With one flicker in the middle it gives 8 life and can die 3 times over. In my opinion that is amazing value, especially within the flicker shell.
I often here people saying you "shouldn't" run more then one focus within your deck. And in some cases this is true. I, however, don't always agree. In a deck like this, running a token shell and a flicker shell works. Pumped up tokens with Vigilance are far more effective then they otherwise should be. I will admit that running a playset of Intangible Virtue is unnecessary - even 3 might be too much - but the card adds such value to the token generators. Each Lingering Souls creates 4 tokens and a pair of Raise the Alarm creates 4 more at instant speed. Thragtusk also can pump out tokens that always greatly benefit from +1+1 and Vigilance. I believe in having a variety of win conditions and the my playtesting experience has confirmed this.
Also, I have this deck in the flesh, own these cards (for the most part - there are few sideboard cards that I do not yet have) and although Tarmogoyf and Liliana of the Veil are solid cards, amazing really, the price tag on them is crazy. Like $200 and $100 respectively. Too much.
Once again, thanks for looking and making such good suggestions
Boza says... #1
THAT NAME! Infinite numbers of likes for that name!
February 6, 2015 4:26 p.m.