+1 all the way for the deck!

Do you not think Conflagrate could be a better wincon? Cast it for , then flash it back for a ?

SynergyBuild

First off thanks for the upvote!!!!!! I was actually having this conversation with a friend at a pptq the other day and both of us kind of came to the conclusion that you only want conflagrate if you are scared of things like Slaughter Games or Meddling Mage and even then it's not a huge issue if you play it right.

The big drawback to Conflagrate is that it removes our ability to go off at instant speed being a sorcery, the result with Conflagrate is often the same as lightning storm (though I would argue that it is much much worse against control) but that removed flexibility and the fact it can be hated out by graveyard hate unlike lightning storm makes it the worse option bar very specific circumstances.

Hope that clears it up when I get around to making a primer I plan on going through all the different options for wincons and their pros and drawbacks.

I have seen some lists use both in concern for Meddling Mage effects, though I imagine Angel's Grace or Ad Nauseam being named would be worse.

SynergyBuild

The correct name is generally Ad Nauseam naming a win-con opens up the lab man kill (though by cutting off lightning storm often we will be stalled a couple turns) or if you have the information naming grace or unlife. Of course naming something such as Sleight of Hand can often be crippling yet people don't seem to realize this. Naming ad Nauseam often just stalls us to the point where we can't win but still some attention should be payed to the lab man plus spoils kill.

I've seen those Conflagrate lists, I understand their thinking but I would rather prepare to play around the effects than side in another type of win-con that is also easily hated out. Thanks again for the upvote.

Spire of industry is strictly better than city of brass.

Baseballking123, No, Spire of Industry needs an artifact, so not strictly better.

Baseballking123

Firstly, thank you for the comment!!!!! It's much appreciated. As to your point while Spire of Industry has it's upsides, in a deck like Ad Nauseam City of Brass is the better option, the reason for this is simply because the deck doesn't play enough artifacts to make spire operate to it's full potential, if we actually break it down on turn one we can't play any artifact to turn on spire; Lotus Bloom which in itself only accounts for 4 slots in the deck is the closest thing and even then it's status as a 4 of means it is a roughly 39% chance we have an opening seven with it in hand, and this doesn't even consider the chances of having both a Lotus Bloom and Spire of Industry in hand. The decks that use spire to the fullest, lantern, affinity, and KCI, are almost entirely composed of artifacts making them ideal for the artifact check on spire. Here though often times spire will only ever tap for colorless which is not what we want and it even messes up our timing here, with it if it's played turn one unlike City of Brass we can not immediately use it to Sleight of Hand (preferably) or Serum Visions and start digging immediately, it also messes up our Pentad Prism math as if it's played without an artifact if we go to play prism on turn two the check wont be satisfied and the prism can only have one counter at best, far from ideal whereas city ensures this play can always be made. This deck really needs the coloured Mana and spire just narrows that too much so while spire in an artifact based deck is strictly better as you say, ad Nauseam is no such thing and therefore City of Brass must be seen as strictly better in this instance.

Additionally as an aside point when siding with this deck the first card usually on the chopping block is Pentad Prism so if that's the case, let's say we cut all 4 then there is only a 39% chance we have an artifact for spire and even then the earliest that artifact comes down is turn 4.

Thank you again for the comment!

Just saw some insane gameplay with the deck, they had Phrexian Unlife out, it was turn four. Lotus Bloom came off of suspend, but they had no Ad Nauseam, they didn't have a land drop either. I thought they would Spoils of the Vault for Ad Nauseam, since they had two of those and a Serum Visions, but instead they named Laboratory Maniac, then Borborygmos, cast the Laboratory Maniac, and with 1 mana left from the bloom the Serum Visions won the game!

Oloro I’m just an idiot and didn’t read the bottom line of text. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Baseballking123:

No worries! We all make mistakes and I love the opportunity to explain some of the math behind choosing to play City of Brass over Spire of Industry in this deck specifically. All the best to you!! Thanks again for the comments!

SynergyBuild:

The Laboratory Maniac + Spoils of the Vault kill is insane! It's really hard to pull off and removal can really mess you up if you are not prepared for it, but when it works the look on an opponent's face when they lose to Ad Nauseam without the card Ad Nauseam being cast is very satisfying. Most Ad Nauseam players I find can forget this line so good on that player for realizing it was his best option. Can you link the gameplay here? I'm always looking for a good spoils kill. Also, just as an aside, I always name Rowdy Crew when going for the spoils kill, just in case you were wondering. I'm sure you already understand how this works but until I put it in the description of the deck I'll quickly explain how it works for people passing through: basically like Ad Nauseam Spoils of the Vault causes loss of life as opposed to damage allowing us to go deep in the negatives. Thanks for pointing this out, its one of the cooler more unexpected things the deck can do!

Upvote because I hate this deck.

Have you tried Boseiju, Who Shelters All in the mainboard or sideboard? I see you got Pact of Negation obviously, but it could poise some use to you as pact can be countered while Boseiju cannot be.

SandwichMan007:

First off, thanks for the upvote!!! (even if its a begrudging one) Boseiju, Who Shelters All is certainly a card I have considered and looked at in the past though I have two major problems with it.

One. it messes with the Pentad Prism math. Playing Boseiju, Who Shelters All early in the game does not allow for an on-curve Pentad Prism, a small complaint but given the fact that it also cannot be used with Phyrexian Unlife means that already roughly 13.35% of the deck cannot be played with Boseiju, Who Shelters All. This really is a nitpick on my part but I like the flexibility the coloured lands provide.

Two. Control just isn't that common in my local meta. Locally I don't see the need for Boseiju, Who Shelters All though of course this can change; at a major tournament I would be tempted to bring a Boseiju, Who Shelters All in the sideboard depending on how prevalent I think control will be, but otherwise in my local meta I dont see the real need.

Thank you again for the upvote and comment they are much appreciated. I hope I make myself clear, I know I am nitpicking but that is how I feel.

Ah yes, much like the Spire of Industry vs City of Brass debacle. That's a tricky one, isn't it? Oh well, thanks for response. You seem like you really know what you're doing with this deck, keep us updated if you ever take this to a tournament or something like that. I run a Restore Balance deck that I bring to small tournaments every now and then, and I'd love to see the results of another niche-type deck.

SandwichMan007:

I definitely will do just that. You do the same please; I'm a huge fan of Restore Balance type decks and would love to hear how it does. Thank you once again for the upvote and comment.

I will defenetly try this deck, i've already seen a guy playing it and it was really really good. ~

I'm curious, what do you sideboard Slaughter Pact in for?

Well, for one, it is free removal with an upkeep Angel's Grace, and still can be payed for, the matchups it is good in can be things like the mirror, to remove a Laboratory Maniac on the win-turn, or affinity when they swing with an 18/18 Arcbound Ravager or something, plenty of decks really just are going to swing in with one creature for a kill that can be stopped by it. Honestly 1 or 2 in the mainboard isn't even uncommon.

Ph0b1a:

I really hope you do!!!!! I will warn you though that we have some awful matchups, most notably infect, but if you do make the deck and ever need any advise feel free to ask me I would be more than happy to discuss!!!!!!

Flooremoji:

SynergyBuild covered some of the basics with what Slaughter Pact is good against. To be a bit more broad and specific, pact comes in against pretty much every aggro deck bar Hollow One and Vengevine and even then there is an argument for it just for tempo's sake. A key matchup for it is infect. Infect is already by far our worst matchup however the important thing to note about that deck is that it tends to go all out on one creature, Slaughter Pact is our quick, often painless with Angel's Grace, answer to this problem and has the potential to steal a game postboard, a feat that is nearly impossible for us against infect. Affinity, as mentioned previously has the potential to kill in one hit with Arcbound Ravager or the other notable option being Inkmoth Nexus, pact answers these. Personally I am a fan of bringing it in against humans for a couple reasons: first, it can wipe out a large Champion of the Parish. Some additional lines are very interesting, for example let's say our opponent has a Meddling Mage naming Ad Nauseam in play, we have 6 mana with Angel's Grace and Ad Nauseam in hand (or alternatively already have Phyrexian Unlife in play. On our opponents end step, or when they commit, we can Slaughter Pact the Meddling Mage unlocking the combo and win at instant speed. In other words, Slaughter Pact makes it so we don't need to fear the most disruptive parts of modern's most played deck. This same line of thinking can be applied with a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in play though with this it should be noted that 7 mana if comboing with Angel's Grace and 6 if Phyrexian Unlife is in play is needed as Pact will cost 1. Other problem creatures it can deal with efficiently before we win are Eidolon of Rhetoric, Phyrexian Revoker, Gaddock Teeg, and Ethersworn Canonist. I hope that answers your question some. In many ways it is there for cheap removal, but its being free also has certain implications as outlined above.

Thanks SynergyBuild and Oloro_Magic!

No Problem, it is perfectly fine to ask!

Flooremoji:

No thank you for the comment, I love talking about this deck as you can probably tell. If you ever have any questions feel free to ask.

SynergyBuild:

Thank you for aiding in responses your insights are always appreciated! :)

What happens if two Simian Spirit Guides are already in exile (possibly through the effect of spoils) and you don't have any available mana left?

Flooremoji:

First off; thanks for the upvote!!! It's much appreciated. As for your question the problem you are mentioning is really a non-issue in most scenarios. It really is up to the pilot and their own awareness. It essentially means we have to wait an extra turn to combo off if we have no mana other than the two available in my build of the deck--more on that to come. The times at which we play Ad Nauseam also become interesting as we technically can't do it at our opponents end step anymore with no mana up. A minor inconvenience but workable. Having two guides out can suck but if it happens you just have to be aware and make sure you have the necessary mana to go off. As mentioned earlier however there are other ways of combating this, one notable example being that some lists play a Desperate Ritual to combat this problem; this allows us a further way of winning that turn but in my opinion is surplus to requirements.

Got it!

Are there any other possible win cons? Other then Lightning Storm?