Any differance (in practice) between preventing combat damage and preventing damage from creatures or is Ethereal Haze just easier on the mana than Darkness?

Flooremoji:

In practice there is no real difference between Ethereal Haze, Holy Day, and Darkness. Technically speaking Ethereal Haze does a little more in it's ability to turn off proactive activations of abilities some creatures have, i.e. Walking Ballista and others, but this isn't really something that ever comes up.

As for the mana argument, on average you are more likely to have access to white mana earlier and quicker (most players have the one Swamp be a second Plains to better illustrate this) but even then the difference isn't that profound and really my decision has come down to art in this case, I was more inclined to Ethereal Haze right now as I have played the others.

I will say though that sometimes having it be a white card is advantageous. Just by virtue of Ad Nauseam costing means that our combo is more intensive in that respect. Perhaps there could be a scenario where we have to fog and win that turn (I can't brainstorm what that would look like, perhaps our opponent is gaining a lot of life and we have no Thassa's Oracle left in the deck, ergo, we have to win with Lightning Storm in response to them gaining the life; more likely perhaps our opponent has Heliod, Sun-Crowned + Walking Ballista or Vizier of Remedies + Murderous Redcap + sac outlet about to be online, in this case we would have to win that turn in response anyway but Ethereal Haze shuts off some trickery I suppose), in this very specific circumstance we would want the fog that doesn't use the more intensive color necessary for our combo. Again though this is a wild hypothetical and very unlikely, really this is a matter of mana and art.

Vale,

Oloro

Hey Oloro,

Been lurking this primer for a while (love this deck a bunch).

Do you have any particular experience or knowledge about how Ad naus should be doing with regards to the newest versions of Modern Death and Taxes / W/x Hatebears.

Skyclave Apparition and Archon of Emeria are both cards that remind me of what Bant Spirits or Humans would be dropping whilst also threatening life-total, making me think Ad naus is in for a very tough matchup. Sideboard lists seem to be extremely flexible, going from Stony Silence to Phyrexian Revoker to attack our acceleration package a ton.

Do you think Grand Abolisher alone is equipped to deal with this iteration of the D&T deck (with some 30 creatures now), even though it's only really nugging Giver of Runes, Aether Vial and Eldrazi Displacer?

I recognise this is a matchup we would bring in all the anti-creature stuff, but if these decks continue to grow in meta-share, would you think a move to board-wipes in sideboard might be on the table?

Even though it non-bo's our own Thassa's Oracle, could Hushbringer be a potential include in the board for a very heavy creature-etb meta?

Very curious since the mana-base can allow for almost anything in local metas & personalisation.

Thanks for your great primer again!

Pandora

Pandora314:

Firstly, thank you for the compliments, they are much appreciated, getting to your questions though, I will preface with saying that at this point I have played a lot more WITH the new additions to taxes than against it on Ad Naus meaning I do not have a ton of concrete data to back up my points.

My opinions on the matchup have not changed much, I still believe it to be relatively comfortable though with a strong margin of error dependent on pilot. I will focus here first solely on the mono-white version. Skyclave Apparition is a card I am only worried about inasmuch as they tend to play the playset. Granted they can slow down our development, or worse tag Phyrexian Unlife, but at the end of the day I think we need to evaluate what that line of play translates to for us. If we assume our opponent is playing Skyclave Apparition on turn 3 in an effort to stagger our development. I believe we are fairly safe to assume that Stoneforge Mystic was not the turn 2 play (in most circumstances, perhaps we are on the play and they fear a turn 4 win which is also a possible scenario). With this in mind we need to consider what this means for our opponents clock. The other 2 drops in their deck (pre-board) are Leonin Arbiter and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, if they are playing Skyclave Apparition turn 3 then we can also assume healthily that the latter was not the play as in that case scenario they have less to fear as concerns a turn 4 win. So let's assume they have played Leonin Arbiter, they now have 2 damage on board at least, turn 1 could have been Aether Vial in which case we can expect another 2-drop at end of turn, again a 2-drop likely with 1/2 power. Add to this the 2 of the Skyclave Apparition and we are at 5/6 past this turn cycle. Overall I like being in that spot even if we have lost a Pentad Prism, of course scenarios could change if we were reliant on that Pentad Prism but being reliant on 1 rock is already a good way to lose against taxes. I bring this all up because a turn 3 Skyclave Apparition precludes an effective Stoneforge Mystic sequence by at least 1 turn, which is a scenario I am more than willing to accept at the cost of a Pentad Prism. We still go well over D&T's head, so delaying their most effective means of killing us quickly is, in this scenario, what I would consider a net neutral gain. I do not want to come across as dismissive here though, they play a playset of Skyclave Apparition, that is something we have to be aware of, in other words, Lotus Bloom becomes ever more important. Here, Phyrexian Revoker becomes relevant, as having the ability to both shut off and remove or set-up and thus be able to be more selective is an issue we need to address, a point I'll get to shortly.

As regards Archon of Emeria, yes. This card is an issue. I will say it has the distinct advantage for us of not being Deafening Silence which I would argue is far worse for us. I will start by saying if D&T is of great concern to you I would consider a mainboard Echoing Truth solely on account of this card, that said in a wide meta that isn't viable and we then have to be smart about beating it. One such way to beat it would technically be to cast Ad Nauseam on opponent's end step with a Phyrexian Unlife active and leave one card in the deck, we can then win the following turn with Thassa's Oracle, be aware though that the line opens us up to the aforementioned Skyclave Apparition, probably a risk we would have to take in that scenario. Most lists run two Archon of Emeria so there is a decent chance we don't have to deal with it game one but yes it is a card that has the ability to shift the balance in our opponent's favor when it comes down. I also should point out, in case someone else is reading this as well, that the lands entering tapped clause is very relevant and should be considered as it can slow us down considerably.

Moving to sideboarding considerations then, Grand Abolisher is fairly solid yes, as to whether it does enough is a bit of a trickier question. Personally, I think we should not underestimate it's ability versus equipment and Stoneforge Mystic, but yes it is most useful for shutting off vial shenanigans such as end-step Flickerwisp. If D&T is a concern I would likely consider up to 2 Grand Abolisher however Grand Abolisher doesn't exactly solve any problem inasmuch as it nullifies issues while we address the larger problem. In the current meta I think we have to start with upping the amount of removal, 1 Slaughter Pact provides some great utility as a one of, and then 3 Path to Exile should be sufficient here to answer the most problematic creatures whilst maintaining relevance against the others popular decks in the format. Again I also like Echoing Truth and even Abrupt Decay effects I believe have some great utility here.

Addressing a potential rise in metashare, I will preface with saying I don't see that necessarily happening as a long time D&T player myself. The deck is too much of a meta deck really to reach Hogaak levels of play to draw a comparison, that said with the current meta the way it is I wouldn't be surprised if D&T got to 5-15% of the field, at which point your argument for a board wipe could be a consideration. We have to ask ourselves then what is popular if D&T is getting that big. Spirits seems like something that could be considered there, Gruul also seems a safe bet, forgive me for it is late and I can't think of a ton off the top of my head, in the environment that D&T is likely to foster then, board wipes would be a good choice, the question though would be which board wipe? Bontu's Last Reckoning is certainly the most efficient, but it is far from the only option. I have always been a fan of Settle the Wreckage for instance, and Supreme Verdict is also a viable option. In the face of a lot of D&T and the decks that would accompany its rise I would also strongly consider a plan B in the sideboard. Grave Titan has the ability to more or less keep up with D&T, Keranos, God of Storms is also decent there weirdly, Dragonlord Dromoka and similar cards are also viable, as is Inferno Titan as a sort of catch all, being a plan B but also a potential mini-boardwipe. In other words, I don't think fear of D&T should throw you onto a boardwipe by and of itself, but rather D&T and the creature decks that could come behind it if it gets very popular.

As for Hushbringer, no I don't think it's particularly great even though it's a cool thought. The big issue I have is that we will only have access to it in postboard games, meaning we could be put into a bad situation with a Phyrexian Revoker naming Lightning Storm and us then having a useless card in hand with Hushbringer, even worse is if they are playing straight Pithing Needle which would be a huge blowout naming Lightning Storm. As the deck is currently constructed then its a cool idea but a bit too risky for my liking. If you want to play Hushbringer you do have some options though, siding out all the oracles and playing Jace, Wielder of Mysteries, Laboratory Maniac, or something more obscure such as Conflagrate (which does have some additional utility in this matchup) could make it possible. Then though you would have to be willing to accept the loss of a sideboard slot for an alternate win-con that still needs to function within the combo, I'd argue that is worse than just playing a plan B. A more out there solution would be to run a Gifts Ungiven package in the board with Unburial Rites and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. With that you would have a plan B (albeit a card intensive one for your board) and a board wipe that both allows you to play Hushbringer as a piece of hate (Thassa's Oracle would likely be the cut for the package post-board), and play around Archon of Emeria effectively. I won't endorse that as the most competitive solution but I feel it's certainly something to consider if D&T and the decks it brings are very prominent in your local meta. As you rightly state, the manabase we have allows us to really tinker with quite a bit here so we have no shortage of options.

In summation though I still like the matchup, it has gotten a bit closer I will concede, down from 70-30 to probably closer to 55-45 if I am being generous lacking a substantial amount of data. At the end of the day we still go over their head meaning the burden is on them to stop us not so much for us to win, if that makes any sense, I apologize if it doesn't. Archon of Emeria though is a real issue, and one that should be taken seriously, maybe even necessitating an Echoing Truth on main in certain metas. On a much different note, the BW versions are much tougher. Tidehollow Sculler wears equipment well and interacts with us in a meaningful way. There I am more concerned as we are being attacked on two axes, and while we still go over their head, they can slow us down and drain us of resources in a much more meaningful way than the mono-white builds.

Thank you for the comment, I apologize if this is hard to follow, like I have said it is nearly 2 a.m. here and I didn't want to keep you waiting. If you have further questions, or just clarification of my thoughts here, please do let me know. I plan on revisiting this tomorrow (I suppose really later today) and seeing if there is anything else I should say regarding this matchup, if there is I will certainly let you know.

Vale,

Oloro

What sleeves are used to quad sleeve something? what do you store it in?

MOINKS:

So it is four layers of sleeves, they are as follows:

1st Layer: KMC Perfect Hards, these are honestly the best perfect fits on the market right now and they help a bit with the foils, however you can use any perfect fits you want Link!

2nd Layer: Any standard sized card sleeve, you can use some sleeves here that may not be of great quality but have art you like as well, currently I am using Hareruya Original Sleeves V1 Link!

3rd Layer: The third layer can be any oversized 69mm x 94mm sleeve, but I use KMC Over Sized - Character Guard Sleeves - Gold, KMC again makes the best quality sleeve for this layer Link!. DO also note that they come in different varieties, namely Silver and just Matte Clear. Also be aware that the silver and gold varieties have some imperfections in the filigree and as such I find it best to have the pattern face forward on the card.

4th Layer: The last layer is the toughest to get as the sleeves in question are now out of production. Functionally though you need a sleeve that is 72mm x 96mm. I use KMC Strong Hards but again they are very difficult to find these days (I myself am lucky enough to have hoarded them), Link!. I do not know of any alternative to these, especially given their quality, but they pop up on ebay from time to time, sometimes at very high prices though.

As for the deckbox, part of this depends on your inners, without perfect hards you will have more options, specifically I know the dex protection boxes can work, but I use an Ultimate Guard Twin Flip'n'Tray with the compartments taken out. The deck has to be split by about 15 cards between the two compartments, with room for tokens and sideboard on top as well. It is not wholly ideal but given the size of the box this system, in my view, is the most secure right now. Below I have attached some photos so you can see how it looks.

Wow thanks very much, I'll look around to see what I can come up with. I thought top loaders would have been #4 but it's interesting you don't use those.

MOINKS:

Most people assume it's top-loaders but you run a lot of risks by using them. First off top loaders in my experience tend to have imperfections in terms of size and as such are unreliable. Add to this that you need to be able to shuffle the whole deck at tournaments. Top loaders make that virtually impossible. Strong Hards are still actually card sleeves, just very large ones, and are easy to shuffle, hence why they are the best pick.

Vale, Oloro

Don't worry, Naus/Angel's Grace is still a top-tier wincon in cEDH! Haha. Seriously though, that's rough, I'm sorry. I hate when a critical card gets banned to attack a more "generic" deck and accidentally hits more fringe builds.

Daedalus19876:

Thank you for the kind words, I am going to keep working to find a solution however I am likely going to take a little break. As for the cEDH build, yes this actually may be what gets me back into cEDH after some time away.

Vale,

Oloro

RIP