Jhoira's Breakfast of Champions

Commander / EDH Xindlepete

SCORE: 13 | 17 COMMENTS | 2158 VIEWS | IN 2 FOLDERS


jaymc1130 says... #1

For about 10 bucks you could add Coveted Jewel , Words of Wind , Foundry Inspector , Jhoira's Familiar , Herald of Kozilek and Springleaf Drum . The Drum helps turn your creatures into rituals off of Recall and Retract effects, empowering your storm turn. The Herald, Familiar, and Inspector are other cheap cost reducers for a buck or less. Words of Wind and the Jewel work as a combo in tandem with the cost reducers. As long as you have cost reduction of 4 with Words out you can play the Jewel, draw the first card from Jhoira, tap the Jewel for mana, then skip one of the Jewel draws to return the Jewel to hand to play it again and draw the whole deck. At 5 or more cost reduction this combo also generates net positive mana per loop turning the Jewel into a ritual that draws cards.

Cloud Key is also worth considering, but it's about 15 bucks by itself.

July 13, 2019 3:56 a.m.

Xindlepete says... #2

jaymc1130: I opted against Jhoira's Familiar and Herald of Kozilek as mana reducers. Herald isn't super great because of its specific UR cost, not benefiting from the majority of the other cost reducers in the deck, and not counting as "Historic" makes it a bit too unreliable in the list. Jhoira's Familiar I desperately wanted to include for flavor, but it was too hard to keep in a 4CMC cost reducer when all of the other reducers are cheaper (at 2 or 3CMC instead).

I honestly dropped Foundry Inspector at first, thinking Scrap Trawler was a better include for some recursion and combo with the KCI, but the more I've tested this here the more I find I skip over the Trawler in favor of a different play. It probably is better to replace the Trawler with a Foundry Inspector, as getting at least two cost reducers is incredibly important for preventing whiffs. Good recommendation.

That is a really interesting loop you've presented with Coveted Jewell and Words of Wind, though honestly this deck's interactions are already complex enough for me to lose track of things easily if I'm not careful. A complex internal loop like that will probably mess up my personal cadence, and it will definitely infuriate my playgroup due to the incidental bouncing all of their stuff. I personally will opt not to run it in my list here, but by all means that is a great idea to include in a similar decklist!

Springleaf Drum is a fantastic recommendation that I didn't even think of! A great cheap artifact that also acts like a mana rock to help prevent whiffs or pay for activation costs once I have certain pieces on the board. Jhoira and all the other creatures in the deck do their thing whether they are tapped or not, so tapping them to the Drum for mana when necessary doesn't hinder the chain in the slightest. What a great budget option over the other 0cmc mana artifacts I noted in the description.

Thanks so much for your insights here, I really appreciate the feedback!

July 13, 2019 5:21 a.m.

jaymc1130 says... #3

@ Xindlepete Happy to help mate, and yeah, the Coveted Words loop should come with a disclaimer about the price of friendship. If everyone else is running 150$ budget decks you'd probably be allowed to play this exactly one time. After that you'd either have to find a new play group or a replacement card post playgroup banning. I run it in my cEDH Jhoira list and figured I'd mention it.

July 13, 2019 5:29 a.m.

Xindlepete says... #4

@jaymc1130: Yeah, a big part of the reason I built this deck is because my playgroup seems to be stepping up its power-level a bit. One guy built an absolutely disgusting Yawgmoth, Thran Physician deck, and another built a sliver deck helmed by The First Sliver . As far as I'm concerned, if you bring Cascade into the playgroup you deserve to go up against a storm deck.

I love the Cheerios archetype, and realized I could make a reasonable facsimile of it in Commander for roughly the same budget as all my other decks, so it seemed like the best choice for me. If everyone else keeps playing their more casual decks, then I will stick with my old ones, but at least this deck has a good chance of storming out before the 5-color sliver cascade can get fully online.

July 13, 2019 5:39 a.m.

jaymc1130 says... #5

@ Xindlepete Cheerios are good for your heart health. Fact. And this is in addition to being part of a complete and balanced breakfast!

July 13, 2019 5:46 a.m.

Bchong says... #6

you should play Curiosity it is like a hidden combo with Firebrand Archer Reckless Fireweaver it is a must in

Chain of Vapor doubles as a combo enabler and removal Pyrite Spellbomb this is another egg that is worth its weight in gold and is able to ping annoying creatures

Sensei's Divining Top allows you to draw past lands in your deck when you are comboing

Windfall Ponder Preordain Winds of Change are good cards to dig for your fast mana

also your deck is like a glass cannon...i have felt the pain when something like Sphere of Resistance is played you should try and run counterspells like Mental Misstep

August 3, 2019 10:54 p.m.

Xindlepete says... #7

@Bchong: Curiosity does work with my pingers, but until I draw into them it is effectively a dead card. Jhoira already has more than enough draw herself, and I have plenty of alternative/incidental draw cards throughout the deck. While I do like Curiosity as a card, I don't particularly like it here.

Chain of Vapor doesn't really strike me as all that great, either. I can use it on myself for some more play recursion, but it costs me sacrificing a land in order to do that and is much more limited than my other bounce spells. Or I target something on my opponent's board, and give them the chance to sacrifice a land in order to bounce Jhoira or my pingers or Aetherflux Reservoir and completely ruin any momentum I've built up with that turn? I don't particularly think that exchange would work out well for me.

The deck already has both available spellbombs, Aether Spellbomb and Pyrite Spellbomb . Typically they act as alternate draw effects when I need them to prevent whiffing, though the Aether Spellbomb can bounce Jhoira to my hand to keep her protected from removal. I agree that Pyrite Spellbomb can be useful as a removal piece if necessary.

I originally had Top in the deck, thinking that the filtering would help, but found that the deck draws too quickly and cannot afford to pay the 1 generic very often, when I would rather be spending that mana on playing another artifact. Artificer's Assistant and Riddlesmith are my answers to that problem, since they also allow me to filter my draws and continue ripping through the deck quickly, without costing me any mana after I have them in play.

The deck honestly doesn't care too much about finding the fast mana. So long as I have 4 lands and at least one R and one U source by turn 4 for Jhoira, I'm pretty much set. The mana rocks are mostly to help avoid whiffs while I'm burning through the deck, allowing me to play some of the more costly 2- or 3-cmc artifacts I draw into. Once I get a single cost reducer on the field, it gets significantly easier to not whiff, and the fast mana becomes a lot less necessary overall. Draw cards in general feel a lot less necessary when Jhoira adds "Draw a card" onto 62 total cards in the deck.

Most storm decks are glass cannons. If I can fire the cannon on turn 5 or 6 before most other players have their board states set up, then I'm golden. If I don't get it set up to fire by then, I'm extremely likely to lose. However, I am really only planning on playing this deck when my friend brings out his Cascade Slivers deck, and I am confident that this Jhoira Cheerios build can consistently fire off before he can. In general, I am not too competitive with my playgroup so I don't really care about winning or losing that much. Also, the playstyle of this deck basically forces it into not playing counterspells, since I don't typically leave mana open during my opponents' turns. I have to play out as much as I can to keep the storm count ticking up and the draw engine running in order to win. Setting aside mana for counterspell protection slows down the overall gameplan, so I decided against it.

August 4, 2019 2:53 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #8

@ Xindlepete Chain of Vapor is huge for hitting opposing players. It's super common in cEDH games to have an opponent play something that is a game ending threat and then target a different opponent with Chain of Vapor forcing that player to sacrifice a land and copy the spell to stop the first opponent from winning. Usually this is a massive tempo swing in the favor of the player playing the Chain initially as two or more opponents will lose a land and a critical board element before the chaining ever comes back to it's caster who often chooses to stop the chain and force each opponent to lose a land and a board piece while only a board piece is returned to the caster's hand. Definitely don't discount the effectiveness of that spell, it's a competitive staple for a reason and is worth always running in any blue deck for its flexibility as a tool that can do a number of different things including wipe out opposing boards for a single blue mana.

August 4, 2019 4:03 p.m. Edited.

Xindlepete says... #9

@jaymc1130: Not doubting the general effectiveness of Chain of Vapor, just doubting how useful it is for this deck specifically. I don't typically have the 4 mana to spare to re-cast Jhoira or the Aetherflux Reservoir, nor the 5 mana to recast Psychosis Crawler. Me bouncing out an opponent's piece and having them hit me right back with Chain slows me down just as much, if not more than them.

I realize that this deck plays like solitaire, with little interaction between my opponents, but I sort of built it that way on purpose. Hyper-focusing on as much draw and artifact synergy as I can with Jhoira helps dig me through the deck to my win-cons, and the fewer things I need to spend mana on that don't specifically keep the draw engine running the better off the deck is. There are many times where I draw into Hurkyl's Recall or Riddlesmith without two mana available, and that can totally whiff me on that turn. It certainly sets me up for following turns, though, and greatly increases my chances of winning the next time around. I don't see how getting backlashed with my own Chain of Vapor serves the same purpose here.

As it stands currently, I can consistently hit critical mass by turn 6 and storm out my opponents with any one of my pingers or Aetherflux Reservoir. I have successfully pulled off two turn 5 wins as well, and a handful of turn 7 or turn 8 wins where I whiff the first few turns. I know at the cEDH level decks run much faster than that, but my playgroup doesn't run things at cEDH level. As it stands, this deck is probably the fastest deck in our current playgroup, and I hesitate to play it too often for fear of raising our overall level of competition. Like I said before, I typically only play it against my friend's Cascade Slivers deck, because that deck is just too consistent and fast for most of the other decks that were in our playgroup.

August 4, 2019 7:44 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #10

@ Xindlepete Don't need to defend the choice not to run it to me, especially for a budget version Jhoira that's intended to have a power level in line with your playgroup. Just wanted to mention that the spell is really good at defending against opposing wins and gaining a tempo advantage. A lot of the time it won't hurt Jhoira much to have to recast her on your next turn and then play a bunch of cheap or free artifacts, but stopping multiple opponents in their tracks will seriously impede a number of decks that might be opposing you when that type of play is made. Chain can take some getting used to in terms of knowing when and how to optimally use it, but it's a really great spell for any blue deck that wants to run it for the power of the effect in defensive situations.

August 4, 2019 8:30 p.m.

Bchong says... #11

using Chain of Vapor on yourself is one of the more degenerate things you can do...also you would only ever do it if you were going to win that turn.

I don't see why you would ever play like Krark-Clan Ironworks or Aetherflux Reservoir and then pass the turn expecting those cards to live. you should win if these cards ever stick so I don't see why a problem like getting chain of vapored ever matters (except when like jhoira or another dork gets bounced).

Also you literally just die to like any interaction at all

here are some more cards you should consider Conjurer's Bauble Goblin Welder Mystic Remora Simian Spirit Guide Mana Vault

I know you talked about the price being a restriction but cards like Mana Vault and Lotus Petal probably aren't going to be reprinted

August 4, 2019 10:34 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #12

@ Bchong It's a budget Cheerios deck bud... Spending even 10 dollars on a single card kind of defeats the purpose of keeping the deck's power level within the constraints of the group. His deck isn't supposed to be a cEDH powerhouse, it's supposed to be a fun combo deck that a typical playgroup wouldn't have an awful time playing against to the point they hate themselves for sitting down at the table.

August 4, 2019 10:58 p.m.

Xindlepete says... #13

@Bchong: Everything that jaymc1130 said in comment 12. But a few other things to note:

  1. As I mentioned before, the deck as it is consistently storms out a win on Turn 6. This means at most, I can Chain of Vapor myself for 7 targets (initial + 6 copies from sacrificed lands) off of one blue mana. However, I can Retract all of my artifacts for that same one blue mana, which is far more powerful for continuing my storm count and combo triggers, and doesn't require me to blow up my own land to do it. Like you recommend, I typically save the self-bounces of Retract, Hurkyl's Recall , and Paradoxical Outcome for the turn I am going to win, since they easily double my storm count on their own. Much more effective for this deck than Chain of Vapor, at least in that regard.

  2. I typically do save Krark-Clan Ironworks and Aetherflux Reservoir for the turn I am confident they will lead to a decisive victory. I am also not terribly worried about them getting targeted down in general, since the most common type of removal is creature-based that makes Jhoira the weakest link in the chain. Once she is off the field, this deck grinds to a crawl, and 4cmc to replay her is costly when the top of the curve is 5. 6cmc or more from Commander Tax can easily slow this deck down to the point that it simply can't win. I am not doubting how powerful Chain of Vapor is in general; but I simply do not see how me spending the mana on a spell that my opponent will use to shut off my engine and slow me down is worth including in this decklist. That seems like I would be playing against my own self-interest for a single tempo play, when that isn't what this deck is trying to do.

  3. I do realize I "literally just die to like any interaction at all". That is by design. Since my playgroup is predominantly medium to medium-high competitive decklists (ranging from 50% to 80%), leaving this deck wide open to disruption was an easy and effective way to lower its power-level. There are a few incidental things that can help a bit with protections ( Aether Spellbomb bouncing Jhoira to protect against wipes or get another problem creature off the field; Herbal Poultice as a one-off regenerate to protect Jhoira from a destroy effect; Feldon's Cane and Elixir of Immortality to protect against self-decking, mill, and/or graveyard hate like Bojuka Bog; and Codex Shredder to return destroyed win-cons from the graveyard to my hand for some minor recursion), but otherwise it wasn't a primary focus.

Also note that Conjurer's Bauble is already in the decklist. That is the second recommendation you made that I already have.

Lastly, most of the "pricey" cards in the decklist ($5 or above) were cards I already owned, or were able to acquire for a lower price than listed here on the site (such as purchasing the Engineered Explosives from my friend for only $8.00 as opposed to the CardKingdom price of $18.00; or the Aetherflux Reservoir that I traded for at no monetary cost). ~$26 is the cheapest I can find Mana Vault on CardKingdom and even Lotus Petal is ~$9.00 at the low end, both at less than Near Mint conditions. While they are incredibly effective at what they do and would help the deck tremendously, they are simply too far outside of my budget for a single card, especially when they don't directly represent win-conditions the way that Aetherflux Reservoir does. I am certainly planning on buying a copy of Lotus Petal or two eventually, since it is much more within my general budget for purchasing, but at the moment it is simply not an option for me.

August 5, 2019 12:58 a.m.

Bchong says... #14

ok i will admit my perception of what is CEDH is probably a bit wonky.

here are some other fun cards Ghirapur AEther Grid Mishra's Self-Replicator Metalwork Colossus (actually this is pretty good for you...another draw trigger from the grave) Displacement Wave flexible boardwipe/way to recast a bunch of stuff

also Quicksmith Genius is another looter...

Chromatic Sphere remove renegade map or something for it

is there a reason you aren't playing the other 2 cmc mana rocks like Fellwar Stone , Talisman of Creativity , Fractured Powerstone , or even cards like Manakin , Hedron Crawler might be ok to play

hell even bad cards like Implements of Sacrifice could just net you a mana

It feels like to me that the ultimate goal is to cast jhoira turn 3 and try to win in the next 2 turns. but you only have 6 mana rocks so whenever i play tested it felt like a good number of times i just played 4 lands and casted jhoira.

August 5, 2019 11:58 a.m.

Flagellum says... #15

Mana Severance does a great job at thinning the deck. Though prob more useful for the Lab Man/Jace combo win.

Displacement Wave is another Retract -type effect for that will return all your cheerios. It can double as removal if you pump more into it as well.

October 19, 2019 7:08 p.m.

Flagellum says... #16

Forgot to mention another piece:

Sai, Master Thopterist : Also adds value and more draw. Goes wonderfully with KCI too.

October 19, 2019 7:17 p.m.

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