I can't see why having 1 tasigur makes you games much better against Scapeshift

Because you windmill slam him and instantly have a clock they have to focus on. Scapeshift is a bad matchup because the game draws out, and they end up winning, because they have a better late-game. What Tasigur does is add a clock that they must deal with immediately, or face losing. Forcing them to deal with him gives us both time, and if we protect him well, a win.

I dunno, he only hits for 4 by attack, and while his ability is very relevant, it mostly ends up bouncing bad counters or burn spells. Making him hit for maybe 6 per turn, which is, well... Pretty good. He's not a better win con than Scapeshift I'd say, but he's good against it for sure. However, you omly have 1 Tasigur. they have 4 Scapeshift.

I'm pretty happy as Scapeshift if you're fighting to protect Tasigur with counterspells.

The pressure he adds is enormous. Combine that with recursion, and burn spells, and you have a winning formula against every deck. 4 damage is indeed a lot, and will take an opponent on 20 life 5 turns to die. When we also burn spells, this is reduced to about 4 turns, and with painful lands, about 3.

Tasigur's recursion is not dead. We can reanimate a Cryptic Command, Remand, or Shadow of Doubt, not to mention sideboard cards. Of course, they are more likely to have a Scapeshift than us a Tasigur, but as a control deck, we do a pretty damn good job of holding off the kill.

Also important to not that Scapeshift is not played much because Twin is just better at the moment. Twin is a significantly easier matchup.

EDIT: GlistenerAgent If you're trying to remove Tasigur, it means I'm ahead.

And they do an equally good job at keeping Tasigur from resolving. Just like they have very little change of removing Tasigur without countering him, your change of removing Scapeshift without countering it is not much better. And while Scapeshift wins in one hit, Tasigur takes multiple turns.

And it will be during rare uccations only you'll get back those cards mentioned above. Generally you'll get bolt, helix, Mana Leak, and Spell Snare, as well as path if it happens to land there.

Tectonic Edge will often beat unsuspecting Scapeshift players. If they search for 2 Valakuts and 6 mountains, you kill a mountain and only take 3. A Cryptic used to hit Tasigur is a Cryptic not used on my own. If it gets countered, so be it.

Playing against the Primeval Titan version of Scapeshift is worse still, but the control one is definitely possible to beat. That's one of the best things about control, you can fight anything. While my Vendilion Clique is often designated for Twin and annoying combo decks, it works incredibly well against Scapeshift.

What I mean is that if I counter Tasigur and you counter back, I'm very happy. I can chump block for days. He's a clock, but I'm not convinced he makes the matchup that much better.

No, a singleton Tasigur, the Golden Fang does not work against Scapeshift. I can tell you that for certain from my own playtests against Scapeshift.

Thoughts on Gideon?

Cheap pressure is good, But definitely not a massive game changer.

Meh... there's better.

Gideon is really good if he resolves. I think I'd play him in a really heavy aggro and Twin metagame, just like right now.

GlistenerAgent I'd play Gideon if he was good in every matchup, but Tasigur's ability is just so good, and creates a brickwall for Rhino and other Tasigurs. I'm overvaluing Tasigur mainly because so many people undervalue him.

Femme_Fatale Have you played Tasigur in this deck against Scapeshift? He's like the Goyf in RUG Twin. When he's there, he's great. When he's not, it doesn't matter, and we probably have gas. The fact that Scapeshift sucks at the moment makes the matchup mostly irrelevant. This style of deck is completely different to BGx and should not be treated in similar fashion. Tasigur isn't just a good creature. He's a finisher, because my deck is consistently able to maintain control over the board.

bijschjdbcd Tasigur is indeed 2 power stronger than Snapcaster, making him more than pressure. He is a threat. I've been pretty successful with the Snapcaster beat-down plan, and Tasigur is just a faster beat-down plan. If Dig were legal, I'd obviously not be playing Tas, because Dig is just so much better, and I may possibly consider Gideon, but unfortunately, we don't have Dig because Wizards are silly.

Gideon is good in almost every matchup. The fact that he can both be spot removal, damage prevention and a beatbown, makes him good against both heavy aggro decks as well as midrange, most combo decks as well as the control mirror. But he's nt great against burn, and that's his problem. But unlike Supreme Verdict he's never a dead card.

Kjartan On the flipside, Tasigur is not terrible against burn. Combo decks like Twin aren't a huge issue. Gideon's problem is that he's good against incredibly aggressive decks, which is where the trouble is. In that sense, Tasigur helps worse matchups, and Gideon makes decent matchups better.

Kjartan I would probably consider a Thundermaw Hellkite over Gideon Jura. Hellkite can be cast through a Blood Moon and will end the game really quickly. It eats Lingering Souls really well. It eats Path, but it can block Tasigur and Rhino really well.

I'm not sure I agree in a deck without Restoration Angel, but I aggree that if you plash black, Tasigur is the best of them, although they serve different purpose.

Restoration Angel is bad against midrange. I've already got enough removal to keep aggressive decks in check, and combo doesn't really get past the array of counterspells. Midrange is usually where I have the closest games, and Hellkite does great against it.

Your deck should not play Restoration Angel. That's correct. I just think Gideon might be better then thundermaw in decks without it.

+1 for the title.

bijschjdbcd GlistenerAgent Thoughts on changes?

I agree on Souls.

I also like Ajani a lot.

I have been liking Terminate.

bijschjdbcd Terminate is too deep into black, and I can sustain the mana base as it is quite well. I may give it a whirl.

On the other hand, Burn can support many multi-colour cards with 10 fetches, so it shouldn't be too bad. The only problem would be that I'd have to take more damage from the mana base. The double coloured mana is really the problem, making it unreliable in a pinch, or off the top of Electrolyze in desperation to kill an Exarch.

Yeah I don't know, Im just enjoying my list at the moment quite a lotm