BlatantLizard says... #2
Cut Salt Marsh or Frost Marsh forTemple of Deceit. Replace Plague Wind with In Garruk's Wake. What about Snapcaster Mage to get some more use from your mill spells?
February 15, 2015 7:01 p.m.
The_Dark_Adonis, traumatize and haunting echoes are worth considering. I've already outlined why I'm not running leyline of the void. Mainly, the primary kill strategy of this deck is Not mill. Mill is a secondary wincon, and and mainly the enabler for death by graveyard tricks, commander damage or aikido shenanigans. And leyline shuts down all my wincons except mill. To deal with eldrazi reshuffle effects I pact some instant speed graveyard removal. And I mill out an eldrazi, whether I succeed at exiling him or not, I clone him with lazav, and beat the eldrazi using opponent's face with it in commander damage.
BlatantLizard Good suggestions all. Not sure what to cut for snappy yet, but the lands are switched.
djbodtke I have, but I feel its not enough value for a single use spell, It would be great if this was a pure mill deck, but seeing as that's not the case, I would rather run Traumatize if I'm going to add a single use mill spell.
That said, thanks to all of you for the input. Much appreciated.
February 16, 2015 1:01 p.m.
Didgeridooda to blink something out with deadeye, do you need to pay 4 (as in paying the cost for both) or does it work paying the cost for only one of them?
February 16, 2015 2:13 p.m.
Megalomania says... #7
This reminds me of my Lazav deck. You're wandering dangerously close to a combo deck and, like me, will likely end up switching into an Oona deck later on. Anyways...
Instead of your current tap lands which slow you down considerably, i'd rather go with lands like Mana Confluence, Sunken Ruins, Halimar Depths and the other black and blue fetches.
Also, some removal like Pongify, Dismember and sweepers like Damnation and Toxic Deluge will help compensate for your deck's slow tempo.
I'd look into taking out some of your high cost creatures and concentrate on making the deck revolve around lazav or the other key cards in the deck like your mantlecrank and bloodcrank combo or Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur.
February 17, 2015 10:04 p.m.
Megalomania Thanks for the input, there's a lot there to consider, and it's getting tough to choose what to cut. I'll need to get some games in for awhile and see what's underperforming.
February 19, 2015 2:10 p.m.
Hey there! I also run a multiplayer Lazav deck!
If you're looking for cuts/ adds I can tell you what has worked well for me in my experiences, as well as what (in my opinion) has been a bit underwhelming.
The mana base looks great! Probably better than mine, haha. If I had one suggestion, It would be to add Rogue's Passage as a late game evasion option. An option for cutting here is Duskmantle HoS. The mill ability of the land is next to worthless in a multiplayer game, unless the target has a Top (2 mana to mill 1 player one card?). Also, I prefer a few more basics in case of Blood Moons, but that's a meta call.
A creature I really like is Undead Alchemist. His zombie generation piggy backs off of mass mill spells like Mesmeric Orb and Memory Erosion and Altar of the Brood. He is just sick with the latter. You get 1) a functional board state for free, since you're already milling, 2) a bit of graveyard hate in case someone flips an Eldrazi. 3) It doesn't interfere with Lazav since they still hit the graveyard temporarily. 4) It buffs your Beguiler of Wills. Really good value, and it only minimally weakens creatures like the Aberration. For cuts, I would side out the Mindcrusher since he is at best a 6/6 french vanilla chump blocker who mills 10 (a single person). You will get more value out of the Alchemist.
Liliana's Shade is a bit underwhelming also. She fetches a swamp, but there are better cards for that which I can mention later. I could recommend Guiltfeeder for a good 1HKO swing mid to late game, depending on how effective your mill engines are. Another possibility is Clever Impersonator, who can clone Planeswalkers, Enchantments, and other creatures without targeting. If you want both, just cut your Clone for the Impersonator for a nearly strict upgrade.
Jace's Phantasm is much better in other formats than EDH. Sure, he's a conditional 5/5/ for 1, but you could get more utility. One possibility for dumping excess mana in the late game is Mindshrieker, who can flip a few cards off the top for a boost. He is unsuspecting, but he can pack a punch. I only cut him for thematic reasons. If you wanted more draw instead, look into Visions of Beyond.
I have found the Keyrunes to be a bit slow, honestly. If you want ramp, You can't go wring with an Armillary Sphere. Play it T2, activate T3, and boom 6 lands turn 4 (if you don't miss a drop) preferably into a Lazav to get the action started. This is the ramp I recommend over the Shade because it can grab two of whatever, or one of each.
I might consider trading In Garruk's Wake for Life's Finale. I understand why you might not want to cut a one sided boardwipe for creatures and PW's, but 9 mana is hella expensive... You might have more fun with Lord of the Void for exile and creature steal. maybe even Geth, Lord of the Vault for repeatable steal and mill. I've gotten quite a few useful ramp artifacts. The mill is just a nice bonus. Also possible is Whip of Erebos He gives a good reanimation option in tight spots, plus you can spend the lifegain on cards through draw engines like Necropotence or Erebos himself (who is also convenient for hate on some strategies).
I have found Bloodchief Ascension hard to turn on in the past, and it usually gets me a ton of aggression, which is fine if you can handle it, but know that it takes a few turns to activate and everyone will be preparing for it. You might get a Phyrexian Reclamation for good reanimation on your side. Also, Altar of Dementia is a nice sac outlet. I like to use it as a response to board wipes, which are almost inevitable once i start amassing armies of zombies or my big 80/80 Aberration comes down. Then I just mill out whoever casts the wipe.
One more suggestion is Animate Dead (or Reanimate). What I like to do if I draw it opening hand with a huge creature (Such as the Praetor) is play on the draw and skip my land drop, forcing me to discard the fatty. Turn 2-3 I drop a land, and cast Animate Dead on the fatty gaining a massive advantage. It happens only rarely, but is a bomb play.
I also like Dreamborn Muse as a similar engine to the Orb.
Hope I've at least said something useful. Happy Milling!
February 20, 2015 1:07 a.m.
Also, If you're really worried about Eldrazi, or expect to see them often I recommend Sadistic Sacrament or Jester's Cap or Praetor's Grasp. You get to snoop as a bonus. The cap is recurrable with Academy Ruins, and the Praetor's Grasp usually steals a sol Ring or Solemn Simulacrum if they don't have a reshuffler.
February 20, 2015 1:20 a.m.
badgurfield says... #11
One card I actually don't see in too many Dimir decks is Nightveil Specter. It usually is very contextually effective, but if you're playing against friends who tend to run blue or black (like my playgroup, for example), you might just manage to steal some decent cards.
Who knows, you might even hit that Eldrazi?
March 30, 2015 7:46 a.m.
Didgeridooda says... #12
With deadeye you can blink one, or both. Soulbound is when ever deadeye or another creature enters play.
While one is out of play, the other does not have the ability though.
March 30, 2015 9:30 a.m.
@Didgeridooda many thanks!
@badgurfield It was in my original build, it just wasn't particularly pulling its weight. If at some point I need even more ressource depletion I can toss him back in, but honestly, I'll be finding space for Snapcaster Mage and Deadeye Navigator way before I put him back in.
March 30, 2015 3:48 p.m.
Hahaha! Thanks ItalicMo. I believe in two things in life: countermagic and puns.
April 6, 2015 11:33 a.m.
Hey Man,
Loving the deck! I've been wanting to use Lazav as my first commander for a while now (I've played every format except that and now I want to start!), and I think this is a great place to start! Really good concept and synergy in here.
Quick question, though - what are your thoughts on Guiltfeeder and Nighthowler? Nighthowler is like a cheaper version of Consuming Aberration (that you can put on another creature if need be), and Guiltfeeder seems like it could easily kill in one swing.
September 21, 2015 3:41 p.m.
Sloanan Depending on where you're going with the deck, they're both solid candidates. Word of caution about this list. It's a good second place deck (in my meta anyways) but it struggles to close out a whole table. I'm working on ajusting it, but the immediate solutions imply making it less fun to play, so I'm going the subtle route. Still my favorite commander deck by far. Just be aware that if you want to win a lot you'll need a more reliable assortment of wincons. My build relies a little too heavily on stealing my opponent's wincons.
The_Dark_Adonis says... #1
Traumatize would be a useful combination to add. It costs a lot and will make you a target but if you're going for a mill deck its worth it. Haunting Echoes would be useful to exile a graveyard to prevent reshuffling and lets you look through an opponent's deck to see what their tricks are. Also I would make sure that Leyline of the Void is included otherwise one of the two reshuffle Eldarzi Kozilek, Butcher of Truth and Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre would make your strategy useless.
February 15, 2015 5:36 p.m.