Chainer, Dementia Master

Commander / EDH* jakethewhale007

SCORE: 13 | 13 COMMENTS | 3883 VIEWS | IN 3 FOLDERS


Gaviteros says... #1

Heya, looks like a fun black build! Can you explain to me the infinite combo in your description? I see the harpies sac for mana, but I don't see how it goes infinite so I feel like I'm missing something. :P

December 11, 2018 10:09 p.m.

Hey there! Yes, it is very fun. My favorite moment with the deck was clawing my way back from 2 life to win 2 turns later with 80+ life.

I guess I should have explained that Chainer is also needed in the infinite combo, my bad. You also need a minimum of 7 life at the start of the combo, because you'll need to activate Chainer twice. I'll assume that Chainer is the only creature you have in play at the start of this combo for simplicity. First, summon or reanimate Abhorrent Overlord. This will generate at least 4 harpies (your black devotion is 4 from Chainer and Overlord) and sac the harpies and the overlord itself for 5 black mana. Then use 3 of that mana to activate chainer to reanimate the overlord, summoning 4 more harpies. Sac the overlord and the harpies again, giving you a total of 7 mana. This lets you activate Chainer 2 more times. Use one activation to bring back Gray Merchant or Kokusho, bringing your life total high enough to activate Chainer the second time, bringing back the overlord. Now it is just a matter of repeating this process until all enemies are drained out.

Do note that the starting condition of 7 life is not necessary; you could theoretically pull it off starting with only 1 Chainer activation. It all just depends on your boardstate/hand and your mana available when you start the combo. Does that help clarify it? I used to have Blood Artist to go infinite with, but once i realized that he could be substituted in the combo for one of the primary wincons I was already running (Kokusho and Gray Merchant), I decided it was better to cut him for more control and synergy, since he doesn't really do much outside of the combo. Thanks for commenting!

December 11, 2018 10:43 p.m.

Oops, looks like I messed up a little when explaining the combo. But as long as you have 1 black source of mana, it still works. You can't reanimate Abhorrent Overlord twice at the beginning if you only have 7 life. But if you have one black mana available after reanimating Abhorrent Overlord from Chainer's first activation, then you are fine. Starting at 7 life, pay BBB to reanimate Overlord. Sac 3 harpies for BBB, and use that to reanimate Gray Merchant or Kokusho. This leaves you at 1 life, but Gray Merchant or Kokusho will shoot your life total up. Sac Gray Merchant/Kokusho and Abhorrent Overlord for BB, and as long as you have that 1 open mana source for B, you can pay BBB to reanimate Overlord. Now, since you life is high enough, just repeat the process as much as you need to generate enough mana to drain everyone out. Hopefully that all makes sense. The setup of the combo is highly variable depending on your board position and available resources, as it is possible to do this combo with less than 7 life initially

December 11, 2018 10:52 p.m.

Omg... I'm so sorry. I'm pretty tired and messed up explaining it again. I'll just strip it down to basics so I don't mess it up lol.

Step 1: Chainer is in play, at 7 life. Reanimate Abhorrent Overlord, bringing us to 4 life. We get 4 harpies. Step 2: Sac 3 harpies for BBB, reanimate Kokusho/Gray Merchant. Now we have enough life to not worry about it anymore. 1 harpy remaining. Step 3: Sac Kokusho/Gray Merchant, Overlord, and the remaining harpy for BBB, reanimate Overlord, generating 4 harpies. Sac Overlord and harpies for BBBBB. Spend BBB to reanimate Gray Merchant/Kokusho, and our life total grows even higher. Sac Gray Merchant/Kokusho for B, giving us exactly BBB to reanimate Overlord again. Now you can go infinite from here.

December 11, 2018 10:59 p.m.

Gaviteros says... #5

Got it! Yeah with Chainer, Dementia Master it makes sense. :) That is a pretty fun interaction. Seems pretty straight forward too. I like that it is variable, consistent infinites arent as fun to me, since ultimately it just becomes a race to get your pieces in place. This one has enough pieces to not be a guaranteed "This is how I win everytime" thing, but seems doable enough to happen once in a while.

Nice work!

December 12, 2018 10:18 p.m.

Thanks, I appreciate it! Yeah, the goal of this deck isn't to combo off, and Abhorrent Overlord is still good enough to run on his own as a threat/reanimation target. I usually win games by grinding out my opponents with boardwipes and discard (Mindslicer is soooo good) but it is nice to have the fallback of the combo if you happen to get the pieces. If you wanted to make it more competitive, you could certainly build more around infinite combos and such, as well as run Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor. Given the power level of my meta currently, I don't want to include them in this particular deck quite yet, as this deck already boasts a high winrate in my group. But if/when they get more competitive, I'll certainly be adding them in. I'm glad you like the deck!

December 12, 2018 10:37 p.m.

That was sorta ambiguous, I only plan on adding vampiric/demonic tutor in the future if my meta gets more competitive. I really like the core of the deck and I don't want to rework it to build around numerous infinite combos as the primary wincon.

December 12, 2018 10:42 p.m.

SufferFromEDHD says... #8

Deserted Temple for the big mana lands.

Maybe Hypnox doesn't for the reanimation theme but it is the best representation of the nightmare theme.

December 29, 2018 5:10 p.m.

I do have Deserted Temple on my radar, but I haven't included it yet since there have been many times where I would rather have it be a basic swamp. I may throw it back in, but since I am not relying on massive mana for an exsanguinate or torment of hailfire, I am less concerned with including it at the moment. It is a very strong land, however. I may look to find room for it in the future. Thanks for the suggestion!

December 30, 2018 10:54 p.m.

Any suggestions on what to cut to make room for Liliana of the Veil and Xiahou-Dun? I'm thinking Oppression for Liliana, but I'm not too sure about what to cut for Xiahou. I'm thinking maybe Arguel's Blood Fast.

January 2, 2019 7:24 p.m.

Liliana ultimate is fantastic but I don't think she is better than Oppression in this list. Cut something else.

Cut a swamp for Crypt of Agadeem completing the play set of big mana lands.

January 2, 2019 8:47 p.m.

Hercules23 says... #12

Thoughts on Ashnods Altar, Phyrexian Tower, Phyrexian Arena, Exsanguinate and Torment of Hailfire? I guess throwing in a blood artist/zulaport cutthroat would be pretty good if we want additional combo pieces.

February 27, 2021 7:41 a.m.

I had all of those in earlier drafts of the deck. Here's my responses:

Ashnod's Altar: Based on my play experience with my particular decklist, I usually don't have too many monsters in play at once. As a result, I cut Ashnod's Altar because, in practice, I found it was basically a 3 cmc sac outlet that couldn't consistently take advantage of the colorless mana generated. Chainer really wants B mana, so I figured I might as well swap out Ashnod's for a different sac outlet that provides more benefit. In its place, I swapped in Yahenni. I'm still playtesting this, but in theory, Yahenni is more resilient due to being able to gain indestructible, and also is recurrable as a creature. Plus, it can occasionally grow into a threat on its own as creatures die.

Phyrexian Tower: Very good card. I swapped it out for a basic swamp just to maintain consistency with Cabal Coffers, Cabal Stronghold, and Extraplanar Lens. I don't think I want to go lower than my current swamp count. I might end up swapping it in for Castle Locthwain. This land slot is a 3-way battle between basic swamp, Castle Locthwain, and Phyrexian Tower.

Exsanguinate/Torment of Hailfire: I found that, when I had enough mana to cast these for game-ending amounts, I could usually just end the game or lock the game with Chainer loops instead. As a result, these tended to feel "win-more" to me. I found I prefer the consistency of other cards due to the potential of these to be dead draws when large amounts of mana aren't available.

Blood Artist/Zulaport: Certainly good cards if more combos are included in the deck, and I did run them at one point. I'd consider these more if I was also running Abhorrent Overlord or other similar token generator that can go infinite with Phyrexian Altar. I swapped out Blood Artist for Sangromancer as a dedicated lifegain engine. Sangromancer fuels Chainer and the various other life-costing cards much better, even if it doesn't have the combo potential of Artist/cutthroat.

Phyrexian Arena: Swapped it out for Treacherous Blessing, and have been really pleased with the result so far. Arena is a fine card, but I have found I prefer the upfront draw 3.

Overall my philosophy with the deck is to play control/value in the early game, and either combo off with K'rrik or lock the game with stuff like Mindslicer or looping Plaguecrafter/Massacre Wurm/Meteor Golem. Sangromancer slots in well with these non-infinite loops to keep my life total padded. This isn't to say this is the strongest version of the deck; it's just how I've opted to build it. Hope that gives useful insight into my thinking haha.

February 27, 2021 4:37 p.m.

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