I never thought I'd say this in Modern, but do you have an opinion on Savage Punch? You have some big creatures, and some creatures who give you a benefit if they die, not to mention that it would pretty much cause an opponent to scoop if they were forced to fight a Phyrexian Obliterator.

Dude...that is an epic idea. I completely overlooked that card...not to mention the art is bear getting punched...in the face! I will probably add this in place of my Golgari Charm and Tragic Slip.

I will move those 3 to the sideboard for certain matchups I think.

oh yeah that is definitely a good combo. Nickiru does that in

I'm personally not a huge fan of Arena just because I have so many guys that cost all black mana and I think Savage Punch covers the need for fighting without missing black land drops but I still like the idea of fighting in this deck.

think of it as a zero cost enchantment that is safer than an enchantement and replace one your non lands with it. Doesn't produce mana anyways so i never think of it as a land. And repeated forced combat against phyrex can be extremely nasty. but yeah i understand if you still dont like it.

Well kylothian I am all for the fighting aspect...the only issue is as you said it produces no mana but it takes up a land drop and with my high curve I need to be hitting mana that I can spend every turn until about turn 6. I also need all my land drops to be swamps for Mutilate.

Not that it would do much good, but Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth might help a bit or at least until a Blood Moon shows up but you already have the shock lands and it would also compliment Sheoldred, Whispering One for his swampwalk.

Cruel Control are decks that uilizes Cruel Ultimatum as a wincondition. :) Just sayin'

@Kjartan I've used the cruel control hub to describe some particularly cruel control decks that didn't run Cruel Ultimatum.

Not sure why there is a dedicated hub to describe a grixis control deck that plays Cruel Ultimatum unless those types of decks in the hands of players like Patrick Chapin have made the card and subsequent archetype well-known enough to be a fixture of the available hub's. Personally, I think TappedOut should remove the 'Cruel Control' Hub as it's describing an archetype based around a single card, which if we're hitting all the 1-card defining archetypes as hub's now, we shouldn't be leaving out Sphinx's Revelation control deck's as a hub, or deck's that delve as a main mechanic, let's make 'Delve' a hub. See what I mean.

It's one thing to get upset at people who are using the 'cruel control' hub on their decks that don't even run Cruel Ultimatum. But I'd say that the 'cruel control' hub itself is the real root of the problem here. It should be removed from the list of available Hub's.

Oh, and uh, +1 for Phyrexian Obliterator

Behgz I'm used to seeing that too, that doesn't make it correct though. There is a tag for Scapeshift and Ad Nauseam as well. They are iconic archtypes and has therefore gotten their own hub. Look up the definition of Cruel Control if you don't belive me.

@Kjartan ANT and Scapeshift are decks that currently still see play. What format currently has a grixis control deck sporting a few copies of Cruel Ultimatum? And how long has it been since the last time a grixis control deck featuring Cruel Ultimatum put up any kind of finish or was relevant in any format as of late.

If the answer to those questions are, none, forever, and too long, then we should re-asses the value of keeping the 'cruel control' hub around.

I mean, if we took it down, how many people will complain, on a daily basis, that it's no longer an option. Weigh that against the incident we had today pointing out the lack of Cruel Ultimatum in a deck listed under the 'cruel control' hub.

My only other rebuttal is, if it's so 'iconic' then why is it misused so often as a hub selection? Shouldn't we recognize it's true meaning and respect that. No, hella people tag their deck 'cruel control' because it sounds cool and actually accurately describes some decks, even if they don't have Cruel Ultimatum in their deck.

At that point, it's become so inbred from what it was originally meant to describe, taking it down becomes a front runner for options going forward.

Cruel control is the name of a current modern deck still being played. It doesn't see a lot of play, but neiter does eggs. People knows what eggs are. Cruel control sees more play than eggs.

I play cruel control V.4, and I would be sad if I could no accurally tag my deck by it's iconic name because people don't know what it is. Therfore, I inform people. That way they are going to know.

Behgz: Thanks for the +1 man! As for this other jazz about hubs on this site. Nope thanks for the +1 is pretty much all! lol

Kjartan: The cruel control hub is for cruel control decks right? Now you might define a cruel control deck as one that runs Cruel Ultimatum but I'm sure you can see my point of view right? Cruel is defined as "willfully causing pain or suffering to others, or feeling no concern about it." This deck controls the game while willfully causing pain or suffering to others, AND feeling no concern about it so I think it still fits the bill. lol Calm down it is a play on hubs!

Cool deck but it feels like the curve is a little high and there not enough removal. I would suggest cutting Disciple of Bolas for Geth's Verdict also Mutilate is a little to slow mabey switch it for Dismember. +1

HydraOoze - My buddy from back home keeps saying the same thing about a high curve. I like the idea of Geth's Verdict but the way I see it as a midrange deck I hit such high impact turn 4 that once I reach that state there is not a lot many decks can do to answer me. I like Disciple of Bolas because he has amazing synergy with my demon and Thragtusk. If you have some other insights let me know but I feel like this deck is amazing with the card draw and sustain that disciple provides and I don't see it as a cut option. I also think that Mutilate is vital because if my board doesn't quite keep up with a turbo agro board by turn 4 I just reset(generally not killing my stuff) and regain the advantage. I do thinkg I am going to put Geth's Verdict in but I am struggling so hard with cuts.

I think you could need another land and some Inquisition of Kozilek to deal with combo and burn.

Whats with the Marsh Flats?

Alternate fetch for my Overgrown Tomb. Additional deck thinning and dual color fetch protection from Surgical Extraction. I never want to fetch my basic forest unless I'm against Blood Moon and this is just another swamp fetch.

Ahh very smart!+1

bro you need to run more lands.

Serendipitous_Hummingbird - I disagree. This deck, especially with Courser of Kruphix and Dark Confidant, hits at least 1 land per turn and I often times end games with more lands in hand or else I end up discarding them to Liliana of the Veil's +1. Why do you say I need more? Also I do run 1x Forest in the side for certain matches but I just haven't updated my sideboard on here yet as I am still playtesting to see where my other weaknesses lie.