Nah we include it in the 98 and play value scepter, which labman allows us to do. Then bounce it at endstep and go off :-)

Alternatively, could have dumped the scepter and win swan-ly again.

Lilbrudder Does Mox Amber have a place in the MAN archetype? We do want to use tymna but we are not so dedicated to her like stacks. It does work well with the Dramatic Scepter plan though.

Have you had a chance to look at the spoilers? Any other cards that catch your eye?

Curious if you considered a Doomsday win condition aswell? Also Gush seems like a good add for cEDH aswell.

GitGudFrog: Damping Sphere is a sure fire include. It checks all the boxes. Can be cast off rocks, is 2 mana, hits most top decks right where it hurts, barely hurts us, and is good against storm, which is a somewhat iffy matchup. I dont love the new mox for us, simply because we arent going for our commanders every game and dont have legendaries in our 98. I honestly havent spent much time looking at anything else, but we got a massive upgrade in the hate piece dept and can use it better than 95% decks as our game plan is literally play a cheap spell on our turn, pass hold up interaction. Sphere makes it next to impossible for opponents to fight through interaction and we can remove it with our mass artifact wipes in a pinch.

skroes: I dont love DD here tbh. The triple black doesnt work with our mana base and it brings a lot of mostly dead cards to the deck. Gush is a great combo piece but a bad card otherwise, LED is not good here, Yawgwin I just cut to reduce antisynergy. I am sort of ok with git probe, but ultimately I like to keep the combo package ultra lean for more interaction and hate. Doomsday is not anclear upgrade over what we already have and I have no mind for Doomsday piles tbh.

That makes sense. Most of the time I see Doomsday go off its generally swamp + dark ritual -> Doomsday. Figured I'd throw it out there as another LabMan wincon.

What do you all think about this use of scepter under damping sphere. Imprint a Tainted pact on isochron scepter. On opponents endstep use pact to grab labman. On our turn cast labman. Then endstep pact again. Then hold interaction at draw step. You can obviously go faster than this, but this has a yisan quality to it as it can grind to victory even through an active Rule of Law and pact can be used to grab interaction in a pinch like FOW or as a double scepter draw your deck target.

Wonky as hell but it looks like it can work. If Tymna is on the field you can Pact in response to her draw trigger. Kraum can be protection much like Leovold was in LeoDoomsday. You can hold up a counter for interaction and an opponent can't cast another spell or draw with Kraum for the win. Spicy cornercase.

The more I think about it, the more I like the Dank Sphere. It makes Rhystic better and helps a lot vs storm and Food Chain Tazri. Surprisingly, a lot of combos involve casting multiple spells a turn. It also hits cradle. CounterbalanceTop is unaffected by it. It's kinda funny how this can become a really oppressive stacks deck in the late game, while still being able to interact at instant speed.

I am starting to like this version better than Redless.

GitGudFrog: Yeah the decks lategame is great. The issue I have had so far is getting there. I feel some of it is taking too many semiquestionable hands. However, Dank Sphere is a great step towards getting to the late game. With it in play people will kind of be forced into 2-3 spells a turn which is good for Kraum and rhystic and they likely won't pay for it.

I think having a reasonable value scepter package can serve as a reasonable engine (Brainstorm, Impulse, Pact) and/or Dank stax piece (Mana Drain, Silence etc) to complement what we already have. The fact it grinds Value/Advantage through an active blood moon (like Kraum) can make a huge difference in getting past the initial salvo of uninteractive fast combo decks.

Totally overlooked the fact that Tainted Pact is a 2-cmc instant that can be imprinted on scepter. The current winning lines look so fascinating. Nice work, bro!

Thanks buddy. I made a bunch of swaps to make the deck better at comboing and to reduce antisynergy. Rocks that cannot tap for mana turn 2 and counterspells that require UU and aren't mana drain are not perfect fits. Our draw spells improve flexibility and make notion thief and labman lines much better. Field is so nasty for us with 10 fetches top and scepter and dank sphere is just better at stopping combos we struggle against. I dont want to need to stop people to win so a more offensive gameplan will do the deck good.

• Added: Opt probe wheel of fortune

• Dropped: Suppression field, azorious signet, counterspell

It seems the deck has taken on a much more aggressive stance. Less of a mid-range one, more of a layered set of combos.

Don't know if Muddle the Mixture is worth it, but with Suppression Field gone and Tainted Pact in, maybe...

The deck still has 31-32 interaction slots so I think it's still very much on the more interactive side of the midrange spectrum. Adding cantrips and a wheel helps every aspect of the deck tbh. It makes our topdeck tutors better so we can get our hate pieces down faster, replenishes our hands more quickly, and gives us more opportunities draw into relevant interaction/combos. It also helps our land situation. I was missing land drops at 29+Tabernacle so more cantrips and a wheel make that less of an issue. Muddle is an interesting option and I may give it a spin as it grabs essentially every aspect of both tainted scepter and double scepter and has plenty of utility as a counterspell.

Correction: 33 slots :smugstatue:...Its almost as if having every card do more than one thing has value. Its no longer about layered vs focused combo or control vs combo. Its about having compact layered lines in your combo control deck.

Heya Lilbrudder, nice looking list.

Would you talk about the 5 bounce spells, maybe? Seems like a lot of those. Are they just better than hard removal like disenchant or anguished unmaking? Or an extra counterspell like mana leak or arcane denial?

mmcgeach: As per usual you are ahead of the curve my friend. I actually lost a game cause I lacked a hard answer so I just replaced into the roil for anguished unmaking. 5 bounce is a bit excessive but repeal is a cantrip for labman first and chain of vapor is more of a combo turn ritual so I sort of only have rift and winds of rebuke. I dont oarticularly think the deck needs another counterspell and I think I would muddle the mixture if I did. Disenchant is a fine option but green has spouled me.

I also have added some combat tech (spice) in the form of luminarchs ascension and serra ascendant. I dont know if its good or not but we shall see soon enough.

@Lilbrudder, I see where you're going. I've been impressed with luminarch ascension in stax decks, it could probably work here. And serra ascendant is awesome if you draw it early. Obviously less good later, but the early game awesomeness almost makes up for that.

I think I'd want to cut Gamble for one more card advantage engine. Dark Confidant maybe. Do you find there's too much lifeloss? I sometimes feel that way about Fire Covenant... it's awesome but paying 16 to wipe the board is a lot. I guess you're trying to set up angel's grace + ad naus so being able to get value off the naked ad naus after a big life payment is less important.

mmcgeach: Yeah I will probably eventually settle on one of ascension and ascendant but both really shore up an issue I have been having lately with the deck. This deck excells at quickly getting the upper hand and winning the CA battle. However, that transition from there to going for the combo is sometimes a problem. We also sometimes get beatdown by bigger decks. These changes should help and also give us a legit beatdown option if we are in a stalled out game.

The life loss from Bob is far less concerning to me than his fragility. I know gamble is somewhat risky. I just love its raw power and the riskiness involved.

Awesome list! What is your thought on Necropotence? While BBB is kinda tough but the CA it provides is insane. Also, would you consider Paradox Engine for the deck? It seems like good enabler.

TrollSucks: Thanks brother. While Neceo is quite powerful its not good in a slower deck Ive found. Ive tried to do value necros and what usualy happens is everyone beats my face in until I have like 5 life and at that point necro is a self imposed stax piece. The other issue is that triple black is really hard in this shell.

I love Paradox engine as a card, but I dont love it outside having a general with an infinite mana outlet. I do run scepter, but that is mostly because both reversal and scepter have some standalone value. With that being said I may give it a try in the near future as it does open up several paths to victory

Lilbrudder: Thank you for the insight. For Scepter, what spells do you find useful to imprint outside dramatic reversal?

Swan Song and Winds of Rebuke are essentially win conditions once we have double scepter so those are good to do right out of the gate.

Brainstorm, Opt, Tainted Pact and Impulse are similarly useful as they can draw our deck. Pact also has the upside of getting labman so you can win on the next pact activation.

With that being said, Mana Drain is pretty sweet to imprint and Silence locking a table once a turn cycle certainly has merit. One sort of cool thing is that scepter combo is not necessary to win so we can expose scepter to removal by using it for value. Ultimately your pod matchup will determine which instant is most useful (vamp tutor, abrade etc), but I would prioritize a card that can win the game for us once we drop copy artifact exiling reversal.

do you have discord?

I'm using this deck with minor tweaks to combat creatures better. Fiery Cannonnade/Pyroclasm vs Selvala/Marwyn/yisan decks etc.

I am on the discord. My name is the same there as here. You should look me up and we can chat about the deck.

how deck works vs blood pod?