Gush is something I've always been uneasy about. It may be better to just suck it up and make the cut, but I like having a free spell to untap Paradox or pull a DDay pile. i think it's in a tough spit though. Ill keep you posted.

Scroll rack isnt for DDay, my bad. It's for Ad Naus and/or Paradox. Naus a huge pile of mixed stuff, scroll rack away the trash, cast a shuffle effect to untap rack with paradox, do it again. ive used it 3-4 times in a turn when i draw or tutor into it. makes it totally impossible to lose. plus its just a decent value play at many points in the game.

Ah, didnt anticipate Merchant > Dramatic. spicy tech.

Voltaic Key is something Im starting to come around on. I'll test it out this Friday.

Agreed on Copy and Sylvan.

Very productive convo; ive got a lot to think about!

Likewise. Thank you for the help. Ill continue to tinker and we can touch base soon :-)

How has Arbor Elf been? I tried t for a while but needed up never wanting to fetch into the right lands to make it work. Bayot and Trop always come second to Watery/Sea.

Honestly now that I am not using Gush anymore it should work just fine. Getting to that minimum of 3 islands is always super questionable for a non high tide fast combo deck and with engine/ad naus less mana efficient piles are workable. I have also found some great ways to abuse the everliving piss out of yawgwin+LED+rituals so even if I don't have engine or ad naus I think I can pull it off some games. In the end I got really tired of burning myself for five after a few test runs with ad naus and I think Skellyton is correct in that building primarily around ad naus is the right direction to go given how consistent it is. As such I went down to a cc of 1.65. I also added scroll rack too btw. The fact that arbor elf can tap for all three colors (in theory) and can serve as culling the weak/ diabolic intent fodder gives it the edge for me over the chance at a more efficient dd pile (which is my plan D atm). I also cut whispering madness since if I want to get a wheel with intuition I can simply go wheel wheel ad naus and feel reasonable confident they won't give me ad naus. I don't know though I may try out days undoing or jace's archvist. Archivist is slow but man the synergy with engine and DD is incredible. I have been really impressed with how good consultation and labman have been off a main phase ad naus. I think its the thing that makes the deck work most games.

I have been following this deck and your previous Leovold deck to the T. Just now seeing the changes and will be trying it out today.

My question to you Lilbrudder is what is the win con 90% of the time (at least in my meta) I get Leovold and Puzzle box locked in and by that time most of my opponents have creatures on board and proceed to keep hitting me until I die.

I'm horrible at magic just have the money to spend on cards so what should I do to get around them beating my face. Currently I have added more creatures so once I have box locked in I use a tutor to get an Eldrazi to win. But I believe there has to be an easier way.

Malware_ The win condition for this deck is Laboratory Maniac. I do not use combat much if at all. The most common way I get there is a big main phase Ad Nauseam that allows me to draw 25-30 cards. While results vary I can often produce enough mana off net positive rocks and rituals to do one of the following:

1) Play labman,exile my library with either Demonic Consultation or Tainted Pact, then draw a card.

2) Play Paradox Engine then untap all my rocks and dorks with a 0-1 cost spell, which from makes it easy to win since it essentially functions like Omniscience. Then I can win either with labman+consult/pact or Doomsday to sculpt a perfect 5 card library for my labman win.

3) Paradox Engine+Sensei's Divining Top+Voltaic Key+ 2 mana worth of rocks/dorks, which will draw my whole deck. I can then play labman and draw a card to end the game.

4) Praetor's Grasp someone elses win condition if labman gets exiled.

Leo's wheels and puzzle box shenanighans are great at shutting people out of our combo turn and protecting the labman win. The deck aims to get a hand lock or combo win consistently by turn 2-4. Leo's best win conditions involve labman since he protects him so well. If you wanted you could do Hermit Druid combo also. Granted these gameplans may be far too competitive for your local game shop. I wouldnt be caught dead playing a deck like this outside of cEDH circles. It would be like beating up 2nd graders. Not fun, not impressive, and it will likely get you into trouble.

Lilbrudder:

Sounds Good. My local game shop is very competitive when it comes to commander. I play alot of Derevi, Animar, and high level Atraxa. I always get hated out quick because I take their hand. I see the win cons now and will make sure those are what I am going for but will mod the list to my local meta. (i.e. Ulamog/Kozilek for win).

Glad you are still updating this. I am following it. (I even signed up for this website just to comment on this.)

Agreed - Naus sets up Consult and Labman really easily. it's how i win 75% of the time or more. These are also the best games to get Scroll Rack going.

Ill try out the Elf again; havent done so without Gush in the deck, so it may smooth things out a lot. Another cheap creature is always good. Lots of ideas for this friday!

Malware_: Good to hear! I hate the thought of my decks being used to troll casuals. I made this deck in part to solve the Leo hate issue. This deck is not very dependent on Leo and you can often win without ever casting him.

While I took some time away from Leo to work on other projects, I vow to solve this elvish bastard if he can be figured out (or at least get him close enough that someone smarter than me can get there). I didn't know enough in the past, but I feel like I'm closer than I have ever been. Engine opens up so many possibilities and does a great job of limiting dead cards.

Hey, thanks for the soutout! What are your feelings on Astral Cornucopia and Springleaf? Have you needed more filtering? Is springleaf a way to squeeze mana out of summoning-sick creatures? Spicy as hell!

Astral is not a great card but it is a great fit. O cost engine untap that provides color fixing ramp as well.

Springleaf drum is a card I have always liked but I haven't tested it much. It has the potential to be a dead card at times but when its good its really good. I can use it with summoning sick creatures, dorks that just produce green when I need blue or black, and Leo, which is a useful perk. I have found that color fixing is just something you cannot do without. So I am erring on the side of caution.

makes sense. I agree that fixing is super crucial. I sometimes even tutor up my signet just for that. Have you considered Candelabra in that role? It's the best replacement for Signet I've come up with bc its a dead card far less often than some others. I'm not in a position to dump 400 bucks on such a minor upgrade, but it seems logically sound. Whats your feeling?

And Astral just feels like it'll be dead too often. I'll have to try it out but im still skeptical!

I do not like candelabra unless we are using it in some other way than a $400 color fixer. I have used cornucopia in my Thrasios deck (which has better overall card quality aka higher bar for inclusion) and it has done well. The first engine untap off ad naus is important enough to run an otherwise meh 0 cost card. Getting to 5 mana with tons of rocks in play and card draw in hand and only having 1-2 cost spells in hand is a horrible feeling! I also use everflowing chalice for the same reason. Astral is rarely a dead card in my experience. I would never keep a hand with it being my only ramp source but a hand with a dork or mana crypt/sol ring can drop it early and you can use the mana it produces to brainstorm, counterspell, topdeck tutor ect that turn cycle so you can be proactive and reactive with it. Or heck even dark ritual and mana vault on turn into cornucopia gets us to Leo+wheel turn 3. Sometimes I just play for x=0 it to activate metalcraft a turn earlier to play a turn 1-2 wheel

Hmm, I hadnt considered X=0 shenanigans. thats a cool trick. I'll need to poke around in my list and see if i can find a slot to test it out.