I am not sure if you have tried it but I play tested it seven times turns 1-7 and I NEVER had the wrong colors for anything and could always drop things on curve better than most decks that win monday night magic. I'm not saying the deck is like a pro deck or anything but the land was perfect for me seven times in a row. That's phenomenal. And when I say "perfect" I mean I was able to chose to shock on turns 3 or 4 for either Brimaz or if he wasn't there I played a Xenagos or Kiora turn 4 every time. I'll test more when I get back. This is definitely a lot more possible than 5 color control is currently.
Major props for sticking with your idea Signal Pest.
October 1, 2014 2:39 a.m.
Tingettley says... #3
See, when I tried the play test, I had to mulligan 4 times, then restart. And I did that 4 of the 10 times. even on that, I got mana screwed. I couldn't draw any land for like 3-4 turns. Then again, it is a random card algorithm, so its bound to happen.
October 1, 2014 2:47 a.m.
Signal Pest says... #4
I'll look into adding despise into the side board over magma jet, I just traded away my thoughtseizes however
October 1, 2014 9:46 a.m.
KrosanTusker says... #5
What a great name for a superfriends deck. I'd upvote even just for that! Not a bad deck either, though. +1
October 1, 2014 9:54 a.m.
zyphermage says... #6
I would go up on more lands that use green. Then add x4 Sylvan Caryatid and drop all the ajani's, they are more for creature based decks that use 1/1 counters. Then maybe go up a kiora and chandra. Go down a sarkhan at least in the main and maybe throw 1 of them in the side. Since you don't run many creatures and some that you do would survive, you should throw in an Anger of the Gods to stop the aggro. It is probably more important than End Hostilities because you can exile them and prevent coming back. For that same reason I would add Magma Spray somewhere in the 75 also. This is mainly to answer Bloodsoaked Champion Athreos, God of Passage and Timely Hordemate or other recurssive strategies like Whip of Erebos .
October 1, 2014 3:14 p.m.
Signal Pest says... #7
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes searches for Planeswalkers, Ajani Steadfast gives loyalty counters. I have thought about the caryatids, but i dont have a reliable method for getting out green mana, hence the use of rattleclaws instead.
October 1, 2014 4:01 p.m.
zyphermage says... #8
Eh true but 4 mana for one Ajani just to minus him seems unecessary, xenagos can't really be plusing either. I definitely think caryatid is better than rattleclaw mystic just because of the body and protection it has. Honestly this deck could use Garruk, Apex Predator , both of his pluses are relevant and even his minus is really good. Liliana Vess should also be in the deck over Ajani, Mentor of Heroes , same converted mana cost better abilities and better ultimate. It tutors for any card without revealing instead of only looking 4 off the top deep. Also why not run fetches? the synergy with courser is really good plus the mana fixing is a bit better, especially in 5 colors. I'd run some of the gods myself since you could easily activate their devotion and until then can always do something useful.
October 1, 2014 6:51 p.m.
zyphermage says... #9
I also think the jace could go too, just replacing him with any of the other planeswalkers you use would be better. Maybe add another Kiora because once she dies or gets discarded you don't have another to ramp with. Her plus means their biggest creature is useless too. Imagine using her plus on Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker or a monstrous Stormbreath Dragon
October 1, 2014 6:56 p.m.
Signal Pest says... #10
I have tried out Garruk, Apex Predator and found that generally he is too slow, or too underwhelming to be of use to me. If I find that I absolutely "Need" him, I've typically already lost, and if I draw him before I need him, I usually need the abilities of one of the walkers instead. I have been trying to get another Kiora, the Crashing Wave , but as of right now I only have that one so I can only run that one. Jace, the Living Guildpact actually shines in the deck, it lets me have a guaranteed useful draw with Chandra, Pyromaster or Kiora, as well as making sure that there are more noncreatures on top when I swing Narset, Enlightened Master . I have attempted to use Liliana Vess as well, but I've found myself unimpressed by her abilities time and time again. She doesn't provide the serious board presence that that requires she be dealt with that Xenagos, the Reveler does (free creatures are free creatures), or the utility that Ajani, Mentor of Heroes has (putting 3 counters on a creature is still relevant, even if i only have a few creatures. Not to mention he also gets rid of dead draws by throwing them to the bottom, Liliana just shuffles and guarantees me 1 good draw.) Ajani Steadfast has his uses, guaranteeing that both Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker and Sorin, Solemn Visitor both ult the turn after I play them. Not to mention the lifelink alone has won me a game, as I was regaining the same amount of life that my opponent had hit me for every round. His ult also is desired, as it keeps my planeswalkers from dying in one swing.
October 1, 2014 10:01 p.m.
zyphermage says... #11
I think you are overlooking the "1 good draw", it is more than good. It is the best draw you could have for the situation. Plus you don't even have to minus her, you can just repeatedly destroy their hand. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver deserves a look at also just because you can possibly steal their win condition. With the right ramp garruk is not 7 turns slow either, and he is an all in 1 answer to problems including a mirror match. Part of the reason I suggested cutting down on ajani is because of the legendary rule, only 1 of those types of ajani can come out. In playtesting I revealed the opposite ajani with narset and had to decide which one I liked. If you are worried about speed in a deck you wouldn't be playing this one anyways. The slowest planeswalker you got here is already at 6 cost. An additional reason I suggested dropping jace is because of having even less reliance on blue and making the mana base even more secure. There is a lot of life loss from pain lands and mana confluence here too. Though I am not sure how to handle it but should be considered. All other considerations aside, I think anger of the gods right now is far more important than end hostilties is.
October 1, 2014 10:34 p.m.
Signal Pest says... #12
I'll try moving Anger of the Gods to the mainboard and End Hostilities to the side, I've been looking at Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and trying to decide if he was a good add seeing as he doesn't actually compliment the rest of the walkers in any way. My thoughts on Garruk, Apex Predator about being slow isn't related simply to his cmc, it is also in comparison to what I can be doing otherwise. I agree that he is an absolutely fantastic card, but preliminary playtesting in my local meta revealed that he never could do what I needed him to do in time to keep me alive or secure my victory. I have added him back to the maybeboard, and I will test it at my local FNM to see if he is worth running again. After rereading Ashiok, I think the problem is that I read him wrong (I initially thought you had to pay the cmc of the creature, he's quite a bit better than I initially thought). I have had problems with the legendary rule and Ajani quite a few times, but as of yet I've thought it was worth the problem. I'll try cutting out 1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes and replacing him with Liliana Vess to see how the deck runs.
October 1, 2014 10:42 p.m.
Not trying to be a negetive ned but i dont see how this deck can work. Can you please explain your vision on the deck? Just curouis to see how it could work.
October 6, 2014 6:31 p.m.
Signal Pest says... #14
It's a walker control variant, only it's five colors instead of the standard two or three. Each planeswalker serves a very distinct purpose (although occasionally some purposes overlap). For example, Chandra provides card advantage via her 0 ability which allows me to essentially have another card in hand for the turn, and her +1 allows me to get past blockers. Ashiok helps me against aggro decks by slowing their tempo and allowing me to grab blockers or attackers of my own. Elspeth is a win con all her own with her tokens, and removing larger creatures from the board. Ajani not only searches for other planeswalkers (or the few creatures that I do run) but he improves the board state of the creatures I have. Sarkhan removes large threats, or becomes a large threat himself. While I do understand that the deck does seem odd, and all over the place, through play testing against friends, and at my local FNM, the deck performs superbly. I have come in first in a top 8 using the deck.
October 6, 2014 11:30 p.m.
Tingettley says... #15
I must say, reading that you have come first in a top 8 means 2 things to me. A- You are either that damn good and your opponent's have no clue how to play against super friends, or B- your competition may not be that skilled. Either way I am actually impressed, and would like to know what matches you ended up going against and how exactly each played out to the best of your memory.
October 6, 2014 11:37 p.m.
zyphermage says... #16
I mean obviously the deck can work including all these different directions. The problem I think people have understanding is all the 1 of temples and lack of focus in general. Basically it just isn't consistent and it cannot be argued that it is. When it works it will just be good RNG and fail for the same reason. I guess the best analogy would be like this is a 60 card commander deck versus the other decks running playsets.
October 6, 2014 11:52 p.m.
Tingettley says... #17
Not going to lie, some of the most fun decks I have ever built, note they were for casual games that eventually became modern, have basically been 60 card commander. I ran like 2-3 copies of maybe 3 cards, and then had like 25 singletons to keep my opponent always guessing. It didn't always work out, but ya know being able to, again back in casual, go Doomsday + Hive Mind + Wound Reflection =Profit... it was a blast. I can see why he would want to go the singletons, and he is playing 10 scry lands to get what he wants when he wants it. So its not that its going to be inconsistent, its just going to be very choiceworthy of what to play when, vs net decks going on turn 3 I use my Generator Servant and drop my Stormbreath Dragon /Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker and swing 4. Net decks are very consistant, but also very predictable. This is a build that is made to actually keep them guessing on what could be coming next.
October 7, 2014 12:03 a.m.
Signal Pest says... #18
I run one of each scry land because the mana base is inconsistent, and there is almost no way to make it consistent without dropping one or two colors. As it is, each scry land helps me to filter through the deck to get to the planeswalkers, while also allowing me to stabilize the mana base as the game continues. No it won't be some amazingly perfect thing, but they all serve a purpose, and running more of any of them would push me too strongly into those colors. As to what decks i played against, I went against a Mardu rabble variant, 2/1/0. They took first match, but lost the next two to well timed anger of the gods. The second match was a Jund walkers variant that relied on garruk to attempt to disrupt me, between my end hostilities and my heroes downfall I was able to maintain board control. Third match was against Temur aggro, which was by far the most difficult of the matches. I had to side out Brimaz, and Chandra in order to put in all of my Anger of the Gods and End Hostilities (along with a few crackling dooms) in order to keep their creatures off the field. 2/1/0 that one as well. Fifth match was against tribal Minotaur (I'm not sure how this person made it that high) but I ended up going 1/1/1 with them (we ran out of time as I finally established board dominance). I would happily run more of any of the walkers, but the problem is they are considered legendary and as such I can't have more than one of each on the field. I see no reason to run 4 of anything that I can only have 1 of.
October 7, 2014 12:11 a.m.
Tingettley says... #19
I actually foresee Tribal Minotaur/Warrior being a thing. My girl plays Minotaurs, and when she hits them, she hits them hard. Turn 4 swing for 16 hard. Its not difficult to do in any way shape or form. Mardu Minotaurs became that much stronger with Sorin, Utter End, and Brave the Sands to help them. On top of that, a decent deck would also run Raider's Spoils with it for the massive card draw.
Anyway, seems like it holds up in the format, and it still looks awesome. Keep us posted on your matches, I really want to hear how this deck plays out.
Oh one thing I did notice.. you have no graveyard hate for Delve/Reanimator. What are your normal plans against it, or is that even an issue in your meta?
October 7, 2014 12:28 a.m.
Signal Pest says... #20
I haven't run into it much, and a preliminary read of the cards that came out of Khans didn't set off any warning flags for possible reanimator decks. If I run into creatures that reanimate (Bloodsoaked champion) I can usually hold them off with the Satyr's from Xenagos, or use Anger of the Gods for the exile effect. I'l look into some answers for delve, although I don't know of any current strong graveyard hate either
October 7, 2014 12:37 a.m.
Tingettley says... #21
Tormod's Crypt . Any deck can play it. Other than that, the only real exile effects I know of is Magma Spray and Anger of the Gods . Just figured I would ask.
October 7, 2014 1:02 a.m.
Signal Pest says... #22
If it becomes a prominent deck, I'll remove my last two Magma Jet s from the side in order to play two Tormod's Crypt
October 7, 2014 1:35 a.m.
zyphermage says... #23
I guess that is a good point, consistent is boring. You did put up the results with it already. The sideboarded games are going to be where it is at but like you saw g3 could be problematic with time. More experience with it will speed you up as long as opponent isn't slow.
October 7, 2014 2:04 a.m.
First let me say thanks for explaining your vision on this deck. Reading that makes this deck look more appealing. Now my suggestion is if this deck is like a 60 card standard commander deck would running as a 100 card deck be better cause the you can put in more more control like Cancel , Extinguish All Hope , Annul , Ect.? Seems like if it runs like a commander a 100 cards would be a good way to go. Also what sort of protection do you have against fast milling decks. My girlfriend plays a really fast B/U/splash of white mill deck that can mill out 2 opponetes and strick down the last on in a 4v4 free for all.
October 7, 2014 11:45 a.m.
Signal Pest says... #25
The only problem is it isn't a commander deck, so running 100 cards in a 60 card format would almost guarantee that I lose every match that I play. As to dealing with mill, I have went against dedicated Phenax mill, which fell apart when I Utter End ed the god. My general take against mill is that If I get rid of their mil pieces, itll fall apart, especially since Mill is an all or nothing approach. They will either win or lose, no real middle ground to compensate for.
Tingettley says... #1
I'm not exactly sure what to say to this kind of deck... I mean, for starters, your land base is... everywhere. I get that you are basically 5 color walker control, but this is asking alot from a standard deck. However, I really really like it. I do think you need Thoughtseize and Despise though, as it is going to be a very aggro heavy format, and the ability to get rid of threats turn 1 vs turn 3 can be very key. That being said though, i really do love the concept of the deck, and have actually built something close to this myself with my Bant Walkers go Midrange??!? deck. The only thing I am really scared for in this list is inconsistency.
October 1, 2014 2:29 a.m.