Snapdisastermage says... #2
I agree with DarkStarStorm As a GBx primary player I have to say that sadly, Right now is not Traditonal midrange's time
January 30, 2018 2:07 p.m.
Chasmolinker says... #3
Thanks for the suggestions. I have been trying to stay away from Death's Shadow as a modern player. I feel that it is an abomination of the game and a cop-out strategy. However, the lore to play DS is growing as I contemplate it more and more in recent updates to this deck. I just can't bare to play it yet.
January 30, 2018 3:56 p.m.
I mean, there really isn't any difference between running Death's Shadow and Tarmogoyf. They're both just big cheap vanilla beaters that you protect with removal and hand control. Think of Shadow as Goyf copies 5-8.
January 30, 2018 9:26 p.m.
grumbledore says... #5
i don't think that Death's Shadow main deck in a regular jund build like this is a good idea. we try to gain life back with scooze and such. if you're gonna use it, do it sideboard. running threats like rabblemaster, hazoret, etc work well.
just my .02.
January 31, 2018 1:59 p.m.
Snapdisastermage says... #6
Chasmolinker Why the hate for death's shadow? the card wasn't even good until recently
January 31, 2018 2:05 p.m.
Death's Shadow relegated to the sideboard? The point is that you simply cannot play the slow game with Scavenging Ooze anymore. Even Bogles, which was one of Jund's best matchups, just doesn't care about anything you do now that they run 3 Cartouche of Solidarity and mainboard Leylines. I feel as though the deck needs to take advantage of its strengths to go over the top of your opponent. It used to be able to be the best in every category, but it just can't do that anymore.
The deck's versatility is not that the old vanilla Jund list can beat any deck in the format. Its reputation for that comes from the color combination lending itself to adopting a list that can beat any deck in the format. Right now, in this meta, that list includes Death's Shadow.
Looking at his matchup data, you can see how much it would improve the deck. - "I faced Jeskai Through the Breach round one and literally had no chance. I didn't find my discard spells and turns 1-5 I couldn't stick anything on the board."- "Game three was pretty low action on both sides."- "He got there by Turn 6 or 7 and I scooped them up..."
These examples back up my statement of how four Goyfs don't cut it. If you have Goyf 5-8, then you're always going to have action. If they Path/Push a single Goyf, they just removed a 1/4 of your best chance at winning. Sure you can win with Rabblemaster, but that's a long time of waiting for them to topdeck their combo piece and win. If you're that dead-set on keeping the Goyfs, then at least add some copies of Claim. Grim Flayer also works.
EDIT: Just to clarify, this is a discussion and I am stating my opinion of where Jund fits into the meta. If you don't agree, then tell me why. I do not play Jund; I just know what I do from studying matchups and analyzing the metagame.
January 31, 2018 2:39 p.m. Edited.
Chasmolinker says... #8
I don't know exactly what. I've played against it plenty of times and I just feel like it's a sell-out play style. It works REALLY well in the Grixis shell. But in Jund it just feels like I'm selling out. Jamming Death's Shadow into every other archetype just seems lame. Jund is all about knowing the meta and anticipating what the opponent is going to do next. Death's Shadow decks seem to lack that interaction and just go all out on the attack. Dropping big delve threats early and slamming a 9/9 DS into play as early as T2 just seems too glass cannon. Actively hitting your own life total just seems un-jund to me.
DarkStarStorm Thanks for the insight. I'm sure the day will come where I fold to Death's Shadow. I think my inability to keep a board against the Jeskai Through the Breach deck was more due to lack of familiarity against the deck. Now that I have seen it, I know what type of hand I need to keep in order to have a chance against it. I generally don't play against too many control decks in my meta, all though there are a handful of them around. I mostly find myself against Combo or Midrange.
January 31, 2018 2:50 p.m. Edited.
grumbledore says... #9
Chasmolinker - based on your comments, you might enjoy the newish builds of BG rock that are popping up: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-b-g-midrange-43552#paper
Looks pretty fun; I'm thinking about trying out a version of it.
in lieu of that, have you tried Hazoret the Fervent? if not, i highly recommend it. the card is a freaking bomb.
DarkStarStorm - trust me, I get what you're saying lol. I've tried DS in several of my jund builds and wasn't super impressed. i tried playing grixis shadow and felt it was kinda linear/boring. i play grixis delver in legacy, so in modern feels kinda nerfed so i steer clear of it. i guess from my point of view, jund wants to grind the opponent down. its a war of attrition in almost every match, which is why i like the deck (and still play it even though it is horribly positioned). DS strategies tend to be more all out, which is why the jund shadow lists look much much different than this.
but hey, like you said, its just my opinion :) i do enjoy the discussion.
January 31, 2018 4:17 p.m.
Chasmolinker says... #10
This is all good feedback. I like butting heads on where to take a deck competitively. I have more fun playing my Jund deck than any other deck Ive played in the past. Even Abzan didnt come close because its not the same back and forth you get with Jund.
January 31, 2018 7:11 p.m.
Chasmolinker says... #11
scrotality its funny you bring up GB Rock decks. I recently bought a playset of Field of Ruin for the very purpose of trying GB Rock. I have the Tireless Trackers and the manlands. I will have to sleeve it up and try it some day. The list you linked to is pretty accurate to what I would like to play.
January 31, 2018 8:22 p.m.
grumbledore says... #12
hah nice. this is my take on it that im gonna run next modern night. jank for days
January 31, 2018 9 p.m.
cascading into terminate or abrupt decay against creatureless decks seems pretty awful tbh
February 12, 2018 3:12 p.m.
Chasmolinker says... #14
gateway71 This is true. I've put a 3rd Lightning Bolt and a singleton Dreadbore in for this very reason. Cascading into Liliana of the Veil seems really good though.
February 12, 2018 3:23 p.m.
I really like the idea of having a full playset of BBE tbh. But I get that the list is tight haha
February 12, 2018 3:29 p.m.
Chasmolinker says... #16
I was thinking the same. I'm not fully satisfied with the list right now. Still swapping things around. I found a list by Brad Nelson Here. I like the idea of BBE into K-Command. The current list I'm running seems less focused.
February 12, 2018 3:38 p.m.
Yeah I agree, you'll have to tweak and see what works. BBE into K-Command or Liliana is definitely insane. If I had the cash I'd get into jund the addition of BBE is great, I'm currently on kiki-chord right now though.
February 12, 2018 4:15 p.m.
Chasmolinker says... #18
I've never had the pleasure of playing against that deck. lol
February 12, 2018 4:25 p.m.
xTCBxNightmare says... #19
This list is subtly different from my own. Once I post my list, ill link it.
But, while i'm here, I am transitioning into jund from Abzan. Not playing Confidant in Abzan, my list currently omits it, but includes Grim Flayer. The trigger on flayer allows you to forsee when you draw the bloodbraid elf, as well as (limited) what you could to cascade into. Currently I run it as a 3 of.
I see that you have this list updated quite regularly, so I inquire your thoughts on Bitterblossom. I see you play Goblin Rablemaster, which has a similar element to it, except that it is a 3 drop, and doesn't create fliers.
I personally like 2 k-Command, and 3 bolt, but think 3 thoughtseize and inquisition is better to more often hit those pesky combo decks (CoCo, TTBreach, storm, tron, etc.).
and i agree with @Bpots6694 that a 4th copy of Blood Braid Elf should be included.
February 13, 2018 4:44 p.m.
xTCBxNightmare says... #20
Ignore what i originally said about the 3/3 split of Thoughtseize and Inquisition. Collected Brutality and K-command also force discard, which I forgot about
February 13, 2018 5:23 p.m.
Chasmolinker says... #21
Ive never considered Bitterblossom only because I dont own any. Though now that you mention it, it could be a valid addition. It also pumps Tarmogoyf as well. I bouht into Bob around the time Grim Flayer was printed and have always preferred Bob in that regard. The card advantage is more guaranteed than it is with flayer. Though flayer does work in the right build. Its not as reliable as Bob though in getting card advantage. Im interested to see what you do with Bitterblossom.
February 13, 2018 5:41 p.m.
xTCBxNightmare says... #22
Our Builds are a bit different. I am also contemplating Huntmaster of the Fells Flip, another 4 drop that I don't want to see with Dark Confidant.
My build also includes Mishra's Bauble and 2 Nihil Spellbombs main to assist in Delirium and for maindeck outs dredge + re-animator shinanigans without leaning on Scavenging ooze in my opening hand
My list is now posted so come check it out if you like: Jund Good?
February 13, 2018 6:02 p.m. Edited.
I feel as though Bob is much worse in a meta where burn or aggro are king. He can definitely grind you out against midrange and control, but Grim Flayer is supposed to counter creature decks. Just as anything in Jund, it's not a question of "is x better than y" but rather a "what combination of cards can make me beat the decks I normally face."
February 13, 2018 8:05 p.m.
Chasmolinker says... #24
Yeah. Thats the key to a good Jund deck is knowing your meta. Jund is about anticipating the opponents next move and wrecking their every plan. I unfortunately havent been able to make my FNM for a while but I try to keep up on the general meta as a whole.
LeMonado says... #1
I don't want to sound like a meta-slave, but I really don't think that Jund can do nearly as much without Death's Shadow. It's just too slow, and decks right now are almost all geared to play the longer game. Four threats, or four Goyfs, are not enough. Maybe they were when the only real removal that could hit them was Path, but with Push in the format you just have to run more threats.
January 30, 2018 1:38 p.m.