Chasmolinker says... #2
The only one that's ever been a 4 of in my opinion is Lightning Bolt because it hits anything. But the current meta doesn't even allow that.
February 14, 2018 8:12 a.m.
lemons452922 says... #3
Personally, I think 5 / 7 discard (depending on if you count Collective Brutality or not) may be too much. The value of the one mana ones goes down with Bloodbraid Elf. Same with Fatal Push (2 seems ok... I actually play 1 in my meta). I'd maybe move a Collective Brutality to the side and main a Liliana, the Last Hope.
Side-boards are very meta-dependent, so the only thing I'm not completely sold on is the Hazoret the Fervent. But, if it has been useful and works where you play, keep it!
Other than that, it seems pretty solid! If I decide that my take with Bloodbraid Elf and Grim Flayer (Junding Them w/ BBE) is underwhelming, I will probably shift to something like this!
Good luck, +1, and happy Junding!
February 16, 2018 12:22 p.m.
Chasmolinker says... #4
Thanks for the input lemons452922. I agree with everything you've said. I'm debating dropping Inquisition of Kozilek all together. But T1 discard is still the best thing to do with Jund on T1. (That or dump a Raging Ravine) So, I worry that only having four 1 mana discard spells isn't going to be enough. I think 5 is a minimum to have consistent T1 plays. The information gained T1 is crucial to navigating the deck properly.
I've been looking for some free space to get Liliana, the Last Hope into the MB for far too long. The value of having both Liliana planeswalkers at the same time is huge. I think your suggestion is exactly the space for it.
The more and more I look at the deck list, the more I cringe at a full playset of Dark Confidant. I'm gonna have to try only running 3 as much as I don't want to, I think I have to.
Hazoret the Fervent is still a question mark in my book. I have it there for now for any grindy midrange decks to get the last few points of damage through late game. But, I haven't actually playtested it yet. Lots of people have suggested it as a solid card in Jund prior to the unbanning.
February 16, 2018 1:24 p.m.
I know that Seth (probably better known as SaffronOlive) suggested Thundermaw Hellkite as a method of shooting down Jace.
One deck that will most likely rise to the top is Blue/White Miracles. That in mind, noncreature winconditions in the form of walker ultimates is a good way for this deck to win through Terminus.
February 17, 2018 11:09 p.m.
Chasmolinker says... #7
Thanks scrotality! I just made some tweaks this morning after some playtesting. I realized that I wanted a more streamlined threat package. Goblin Rabblemaster has finally hit the bin. (for now) I went back up to 4 Dark Confidant, cut a Forest for a fourth BBE and swapped Hissing Quagmire for Treetop Village. I also adjusted the IoK /Thoughtseize nnumbers from 1/4 to 2/3 in the interest of saving life.
February 21, 2018 3:55 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #8
I think you definitely want 4 Thoughtseize right now. Tron, Eldrazitron, Ponza, and Jace decks are going to be your hardest matchups, and Thoughtseize is your best card against them.
February 21, 2018 4:07 p.m.
Chasmolinker says... #9
Thanks ToolmasterOfBrainerd. Ill reconsider a 1/4 split. I was running 1 Inquisition of Kozilek/4 Thoughtseize and found myself going to 15 or less really quickly because of it.
February 21, 2018 6:25 p.m.
grumbledore says... #10
running 4 bbe ups the overall curve of the deck a lot making bob a hell of a lot more suicidal. a lot of people are trimming down on thoughtseize because of that. reid duke mainboarded 4 iok and 0 thoughtseize, but then had 2 in the side. seems extreme... im trying a 3/2 split in favor of iok.
February 22, 2018 12:02 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #11
Crazy thought: why not cut bob? In what matchup is he fantastic? I'm probably thinking too much like a control player, especially bob is good for a proactive plan, however he's really soft to removal, which interactive decks have a lot of, and hurts your life, which non-interactive decks love. BBE is better card advantage anyway. I fully expect to be wrong, but I can't help but throw it out there.
February 22, 2018 1:10 a.m.
xTCBxNightmare says... #12
ToolmasterOfBrainerd Jund is meant to have a 50/50 split against control, so the argument for 4 Thoughtseize and less Inquisition of Kozilek is counter-intuitive. I currently have a 3/3 split, but may be moving to 4IoK/2TS.
Also Confidant let's you use your life total as a resource, drawing you cards. Been a staple in Jund, and it's hard to cut. I run Flayer over it in my list
As far as sideboard goes, I think you have to many fulninator mages. The extra percentage points against tron isn't worth it for the match up.
What is a Pia and Kiran Nalaar for?
One of those slots needs to be for Thrun to help fight control post board.
Also another K-command in the side would be awesome.
I've put Kozilek's Return in the side for affinity, and other agro match ups. While 1 less damage then Anger of the Gods, it is an instant, and kills Etched Champion because it's a devoid spell.
February 22, 2018 1:25 a.m.
grumbledore says... #13
kozileks return also hits Master of Waves and the pro red white weenies
February 22, 2018 2:01 a.m.
I do like Flayer more for the impending Jace meta. He can kill Jaces fairly efficiently.
February 22, 2018 2:06 a.m.
Chasmolinker says... #15
Thanks to everyone for the great feedback:
ToolmasterOfBrainerd, Bob is a must in Jund. (Or Grim Flayer if you prefer). I prefer Bob though because he gives consistent card advantage and helps feed LotV's +1. Bob is excellent in any match-up he sticks around in. The card advantage outweighs the life loss and is part of the reason I am still not sure of my discard split. Collective Brutality, Kitchen Finks, and Scooze help gain back life lost from Bob. I really want to run 3 Scooze and just might cut Finks to make room.
xTCBxNightmare, Jund generally has 6-7 discard spells in the MB. With BBE now in the mix, those numbers are lower as cascading into discard is just not where you want to be. Thoughtseize increases the chance of being able to grab something when this does happen. And it lets you snag Jace. I'm back down to 3/2 favoring Thoughtseize and a 4th Thoughtseize may turn up in the SB. I think I prefer Collective Brutality over a 4th Thoughtseize for now.
I've dropped Pia and Kiran Nalaar for Thrun, the Last Troll. Good catch.
I don't want to dump that much money into Kolaghan's Command right now. Until I see a deficiency in gameplay, I'm fine with 2 copies.
xTCBxNightmare and scrotality, Kozilek's Return was an oversight. Made the switch from Anger and cut one Fulminator Mage for 2 copies of Kozilek's Return.
DarkStarStorm, I prefer Bob over Flayer. BBE and Bolt are good enough at handling Jace for me.
February 22, 2018 9:11 a.m.
Upvote! Our List are fairly similar I run 24 lands, 1 Godless Shrine and 1 Marsh Flats instead of foothills for Lingering Souls in the SB. I'm new to jund, once I saw the unbans I sold out of grixis control. I was gonna do a 3/2 Bob and Grim split, but I didn't wanna dedicate slots in the main for artifacts so I did Courser of Kruphix. I like it like this because it helps with land drops, lifegain, combats other BBEs, helps set up my BBE and bob triggers. I also only run 3 LotV and 1 Last hope
February 22, 2018 11:52 a.m.
Chasmolinker says... #17
Burrskin; Do you have a list I could take a look at? I'd like to see how Lingering Souls fairs in the deck. Which match-ups do you bring it in against?
I never got on the Grim Flayer train. I bought into Dark Confidant before I started running Jund and couldn't build a deck without him. Now that I have all of the pieces for Jund, the fun of tuning the list has been keeping me busy for quite some time. The deck is ever changing, and Bloodbraid Elf is just another piece of the puzzle.
February 22, 2018 12:04 p.m.
grumbledore says... #18
i think splitting anger and return 1/1 is a good idea, as anger exiles and return is instant speed. theyre both sweepers but i think have different strengths for different match ups. just my .02 ;)
February 22, 2018 12:08 p.m.
xTCBxNightmare says... #19
Good sideboard calls. Although jace s as unbanned, I'd expect the meta to try and speed up to beat him (more human/burn/affinity).
Also a third scooze helps lock out Snapcaster targets and dredge. I'm putting two finks in SB personally
DarkStarStorm take a look at my list then Jund Good? (Weekly competition updates)
February 22, 2018 12:17 p.m. Edited.
Chasmolinker says... #20
Just ordered Engineered Explosives for the SB over Blood Moon. Thoughts? I can go back down to 1 Forest and 1 Treetop Village.
I kind of like the idea of leaving creatures in the graveyards so I can eat them up with Scooze. I will try it out with 2 Kozilek's Return and if the exile becomes necessary I will make the split. Plus having one of each and Damnation makes it difficult to decide which one comes in. Streamlining my SB makes that a little easier.
February 22, 2018 12:25 p.m.
xTCBxNightmare says... #21
EE is often argued to be one of the best removal spells in modern. It's vital for Humans as Thalia, Guardian of Thraben isn't able to tax it.
Bloodmoon is good against most Multi colored and control decks, and you can ignore it pretty easily. Dropping your double black spells in your sideboard will allow you to worry about bloodmoon less as well.
The cards Are good for different matchups. It depends upon your matter honestly what you should run.
February 22, 2018 2:42 p.m.
Chasmolinker says... #22
Would cutting Abrupt Decay from the SB for Blood Moon be good or bad? I think 1 Abrupt Decay in the 75 is enough.
February 22, 2018 2:56 p.m.
xTCBxNightmare says... #23
Abrupt Decay is useful for destroying Bitterblossom Search for Azcanta Flip Gideon of the Trials Detention Sphere Against certain control matchups, and thats why i keep 2 in the 75. It can be brought in from SB to "upgrade" your removal package to more fit the opponent you're playing against. while i think Gideon of the trials will be played less now in U/W since Jace is around, Its still a consideration.
Blood Moon is amazing against tron as well, so Id even say -1 Fulminator Mage and + another Blood Moon
February 22, 2018 9:27 p.m.
Chasmolinker says... #24
I dont think I can bring myself to cut another Fulminator Mage. Id rather ditch the Thoughtseize for Abrupt Decay or a second Blood Moon.
February 22, 2018 9:40 p.m.
Sorry man. Been real busy lately. How's the list treating you? Seen you made some major changes to the list overall since last time
Chasmolinker says... #1
Thanks for the input. However, with all of the different removal spells available in Jund (Terminate, Abrupt Decay, Lightning Bolt, Fatal Push, Dreadbore, Maelstrom Pulse) 4 of any one of them doesn't make sense. When you go up against big Mana decks like Tron, Eldrazi, or Scapeshift you need more than Fatal Push.
February 14, 2018 8:11 a.m.