RobertFischer says... #2
Believe me, I get the reference.
The landbase is "exotic" for two reasons: 1) I'm working on it, and 2) this deck's mana needs are a bit strange.
To start with, you're going to want to play your opponents' cards. Hence, Exotic Orchard . Once you play a single Exotic Orchard , Reflecting Pool becomes Exotic Orchard 5-8. Once you have Reflecting Pool in your deck, you want to have something that can generate any color mana to really capitalize on it. Hence, Cavern of Souls , which can produce any color mana (thereby letting the Reflecting Pool produce any color mana) plus provide counterspell protection.
So that gets us that far.
Another major need for this deck is that you need to get to 5 mana by turn 5, or you'll almost certainly end up irrevocably behind. This is because Bribery and Sen Triplets are really where the power is in this deck, and they're both 5 CMC. At first I ran with 24 lands, but that left me mana-flooded fairly regularly. Enter fetchlands.
The 4 fetchlands seem to do reasonably well at ensuring we get the drops but not flooding, but I'm currently seeing if the recent introduction of Annex (still experimental) means I can get by with only 22 lands. Annex means that we only need a consistent land drop for 4 turns, provided you draw Annex and it resolves, and it slows the opponent's mana curve while accelerating ours.
All in all, it seems to run pretty well. Very rarely do I end up unable to play a card because of the mana.
August 9, 2014 6:06 p.m.
RobertFischer says... #3
BTW, I'm considering going down to 21 lands and running 2 Sunken Ruins and a Mystic Gate instead of the fetchlands. I'm trying to squeeze in room for two Telemin Performance as a fifth and sixth Bribery (also a wincon vs creatureless decks like most 8-Racks)...or perhaps a couple Commandeer or (if I'm really feeling like running a tangent) Sorin, Lord of Innistrad or Liliana Vess .
August 9, 2014 7:59 p.m.
Haha realllly cool deck, +1! Tell me, how is it going against other common builds?
August 10, 2014 6:25 p.m.
RobertFischer says... #5
I've been playtesting using Modern Meta for all modern playtesters
This is the nastiest deck that I've encountered so far:
The reason is because there's just not a lot to pull from their deck: no one card is really a bomb. (Isochron Scepter for the Azorius Charm is a good way to go, or the Delver, but neither count as a bomb.) At the same time, the deck is aggro, so it can get out of control really fast. (If a Young Pyromancer is on the field and they drop Snapcaster Mage , then the only way to survive is to respond with a Supreme Verdict .)
The Jund deck (Liliana of the Veil and Tarmogoyf and friends) is a fair match-up, with a slight advantage on our side. The best thing to grab is Liliana of the Veil and just discard out both of us: the reason is because we're generating all these exiled cards which we can still play, even if both players have empty hands. And Tarmogoyf may cost us 5 mana, but it's still there.
Ravager affinity is a super aggro deck and has a distinct advantage. The Vortex Elemental and Oona's Gatewarden do alright for getting you to survive to 4 mana, at which point you will need to drop the Supreme Verdict to reset the board. The lifelink provided by Azorius Charm can really be a lifesaver mid-game, and its bounce ability can be huge against creatures pumped with stupid number of +1/+1 tokens. So the bad news is that you have to survive the initial turn 3 aggro alpha strike, and that's tricky. The good news is that if you survive that, you've got reasonable odds on winning in general. And the really good news is that if they run anything whose name includes "steel Colossus" as a finisher, Bribery is an instant win condition. Also, I'm seriously considering sideboarding Cytoplast Manipulator instead of Nevermore to help out.
This deck is HILARIOUS against anything running Phyrexian Obliterator , provided you get to Bribery before they can draw it. Similarly hilarious: Urzatron. Annex their Urza-lands and Bribery their Emrakul, the Aeons Torn into play.
This deck wins consistently against UWr Midrange. The win condition there is Raging Ravine , which can be bounced back to the deck by Vortex Elemental and Azorius Charm and claimed by Annex .
Splinter Twin/Kiki is a pain. The Illness in the Ranks is sideboarded for it (and token decks), and Nevermore can shut down half of it, too. (Cytoplast Manipulator could also help vs. Kiki, but doesn't do much against Splinter Twin itself.) When playing this deck straight, though, it's hard for this deck to break the combo.
August 11, 2014 11:41 a.m.
RobertFischer says... #6
Instead of adding Telemin Performance , I added two Dimir Charm . It can be used to pick out cards for Nightveil Specter and Daxos of Meletis , but it can also be used to break combos by popping utility creatures and countering sorceries (eg: Gifts Ungiven ). Generally useful card.
August 12, 2014 8:32 a.m.
RobertFischer says... #7
GAH. Gifts Ungiven is an instant. Is there anything that card can't do?!?
August 12, 2014 8:32 a.m.
Oona's Gatewarden is probably one of the first main soft spots. you probably need to actually move more towards the 1 and 2 drops just so you dont get blown out before you can get up and running, but the gatewarden in particular is probably not agile enough to build you enough time. Vortex Elemental works a bit better because he has that second ability so he can get a bit more proactive when you want, especially come late game. Void Stalker isnt a one drop, but is more proactive than the gatewarden, but in my heart of hearts im worried you need to amplify the one drops not move the gatewarden to a two drop void stalker and theres probably not a really good creature that does that. maybe go for a Vapor Snag or a Thoughtseize Inquisition of Kozilek Duress Despise kind of discard. another option would be straight up removal in the new Ulcerate or eccentric budget choice Dead Weight . i like vapor snag because it holds up against creature-light control decks by becoming a way to save your guys from removal or sweepers.
August 16, 2014 1:24 a.m.
and yea, thinking it over a bunch, i think the manabase probably could use some serious reinforcement as well. even with the bounce lands im pretty confident looking at this that you are going to be stuck on 3 or 4 mana with expensive cards in your hand (and theirs!). if you are worried about budget concerns Arcane Sanctum is dirt cheap and the depletion vivid cycle in Vivid Creek Vivid Marsh and Vivid Meadow play particularly nicely with reflecting pool. probably go up to at least 22 or 23 lands though. i generally only drop down to 20 when im building mono.
love the idea, just scared looking at it that its going to take a bit too long to get up and running like this. hyper fast modern decks will probably be able to blow straight through this while you are bouncing Azorius Chancery around and wishing oona's gatewarden had the defensive abilities offensive abilities and staying power of something like Deft Duelist or Knight of the Holy Nimbus .
August 16, 2014 1:36 a.m.
RobertFischer says... #11
Yeah, it's the first three rounds where this deck struggles. Any mana base that enters the battlefield tapped makes that much worse, so that's out. Oona's Gatewarden is definitely the weak link, although I'm trying to figure out what to play in its place. Vapor Snag buys me a bit of time, but Oona's Gatewarden often prevents the attack in the first place. It's not a bad trade, but I'm not sure it's going to be vital to getting the deck to work well. There's just...something...missing which Oona's Gatewarden is currently taking the place of. I just dont know what it is.
I like Disfigure instead of Ulcerate . That three life is a hard hit, and -2/-2 is usually more than sufficient. But, again, is that slight bit more control going to be sufficient to dismantle the hyper-fast modern deck while we're getting situated? And what would it run in the place of? Knight of the Holy Nimbus is out because the two white is tricky in those first three rounds, especially given how rarely opponents play white.
The mana actually works out pretty well for me in playtesting: that's been a surprise to me, because the deck was originally at 24. Fetchlands plus dual lands ran at 22 comfortably, but getting rid of the fetchlands actually made it run okay with 20. Playtest it yourself and see.
August 16, 2014 3:38 p.m.
cool, i ran a couple tests and i did indeed have mana problems. very first game had to mulligan down to four and dropped 3 different games because i was unable to produce blue before turn 5. sen triplets sticking was game over in both games (out of ten) that it won. i will brew up a variant for purposes of discussion! really like the idea.
August 17, 2014 3:57 a.m.
RobertFischer says... #13
You weren't able to produce a blue before turn 5? That's bizarre. But I've also been messing around with the mana base a lot, so it's probably broken compared to how it was... (In fact, I know that's the case, since I've been messing around in a post-Annex world.) In any case, what were you playtesting against?
I think this deck may simply need the painlands. Anything that enters play tapped is simply too slow: the bouncelands are the exception only because they move mana along. I'm going to revert the mana base back to where it was before (22 with fetches), but swapping a full playset of Dimir Charm instead of the Azorius Charm .
Sen Triplets absolutely is the win con on our side, although both Bribery , Praetor's Grasp , and even Annex can win the game depending on the opponent. ("Darksteel Colossus for 5 mana? Yes please."; "I'll take that Raging Ravine , thanks.")
August 17, 2014 10:24 a.m.
RobertFischer says... #14
Trying an alternative approach with Vivid Creek and Arcane Sanctum in order to stay in the three digits for deck cost. The bouncelands work well for getting the mana up, and have synergy with Vivid Creek .
August 17, 2014 3:12 p.m.
RobertFischer says... #16
Personal favorite move so far is Stolen Goods into Chalice of the Void. Playing that card for 0 mana makes their other 3 copies of that card worthless.
February 11, 2016 5:04 p.m.
RobertFischer says... #17
(You gotta love when a card worth a quarter wrecks $125 worth of cards in their deck.)
February 11, 2016 5:05 p.m.
DragonFaceEater says... #18
You should run Hedonist's Trove. Although expensive, it'll get you all of the instants and sorcerys they've played, all of the fetches they've cracked, and all of the creatures you've killed. Plus, you have a massive amount of extra land in Annex, Fellwar Stone, and Nightveil Specter, so you can play Hedonist's Trove a lot easier.
March 16, 2016 3:50 p.m.
Suggestions:
- -4 Gnarled Scarhide
- -3 Fireshrieker
- -1 Ghastlord of Fugue
- -1 Annex
- +4 Serum Visions
- +3 Disfigure
- +2 Dismember
Reasons:You need some way to interact with your opponent, so some removal. Disfigure and dismember are good versatile spells that can take out a number of threats or utility dudes.
4ofs are good, but you need some way to dig into your deck instead of just relying on topdecks. You currently have the spreading seas, which do a lot of work, but having 4 more cards that draw you more cards and can fix what is coming up is really helpful.
If you can draw into your removal, then your creatures should be connecting more often, which means you don't need the fireshriekers as much.
daemon_panda says... #1
I didn't know Bobby Fischer played MtG.
In case you don't get the reference, he was the World chess champion a few years back. Aside from his personality, he is considered to be one of the greatest players ever, up there with Kasparov and Karlsen. His gameplay was mindbending. And I can imagine him playing a deck like this.
Sen Triplets is my favorite card in all of MtG. I am actually constructing a commander deck with the three girls as my commander.
I do have a question about your landbase. It seems exotic. How well does it run?
August 9, 2014 2:31 p.m.