Spectacular suggestion, but I prefer playing without infinite combos.
May 3, 2015 12:43 a.m.
I'm glad someone else is trying the deck. I found a version of this deck awhile back called: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/picking-up-cards-is-fun-blink-deck/I made my own version of the Deck which i think you should definitely look through called and you actually inspired some changes to it.http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/baller-blink-btches/
June 8, 2015 12:19 a.m.
Wow it's good to know other people are trying this too! Your deck is really good as well. I'm going to look it over and make some decisions. Does yours play well?
June 8, 2015 9:10 p.m.
The deck has it's weaknesses but overall is still a decent deck.
My version used to Focus on the infinite mana combo and as a result the deck could die easily to a swarm of creatures or just other easier combos and value plays. However, with some adjustments and possibly less reliance on the combo of deadeye navigator + Great Whale (Which could win through Ashen Rider, Hornet queen + Fervor, Banefire + Eternal Witness or even Warstorm Surge.) The deck could be a very interesting version of the classic 5-color good stuff.
Onward and Upward!
June 8, 2015 10:41 p.m.
LordShadowZ says... #6
I approve of 5 color shenanigan decks. However, 33 lands is really low for 5 color, and I see a lot of them enter the battlefield tapped or bounce another land. Ideally, you should be running no less than 36 or 37 lands, possibly more with your higher mana curve. I would recommend looking into the 10 shock lands, Sacred Foundry, Hallowed Fountain, Breeding Pool, Steam Vents, Temple Garden, Godless Shrine, Stomping Ground, Overgrown Tomb, Blood Crypt, and Watery Grave. They aren't 100% budget friendly but they have basic land types which can still be grabbed by lots of ramp cards. They can really improve speed and consistency, especially since I see few mana rocks and ramp cards in the deck. Basic lands are not your friend in 5 color. You need as many dual and tri lands as you can get.
Also, a good card to pair with Otherworldly Journey and the flicker theme is Twilight Shepherd, which helps with ensuring you don't lose your field completely.
July 19, 2015 7:40 p.m.
I really appreciate the land advice. I'll look into swapping those in when I can afford them. Thanks.
July 19, 2015 8:18 p.m.
Okay, I've changed the lands up. I'm feeling pretty good about that. I switched Farhaven Elf for Wood Elves to search for the Shock Lands. I chose Shard Convergence over Skyshroud Claim. I hope that was a good idea, since I figured Wood Elves would snag the forests. How's that look? Any more suggestions?
July 26, 2015 12:53 a.m.
Engineofindifference says... #9
On the mana front I'd suggest adding Skyshroud Claim and Farseek since they both ramp you and provide a lot of color-fixing though their ability to get Shocklands (any two green shocks for Skyshroud and any one shock at all for farseek).
Landwise, adding any of the fetchlands (like say, any of the five they just reprinted in dragons of tarkir) can make things way more consistent, especially with shocklands. Personally I'm a fan of mixing in a few of the checklands (like Dragonskull Summit, Glacial Fortress or Sulfur Falls) although those work better when you have a fair number of shocks or basics for them to buddy up with.
The painlands (Shivan Reef, Llanowar Wastes, etc) are a nice budget option for mana fixing that doesn't come in tapped which helps a lot, especially if you're gonna run the ravnica bouncelands.
Lastly, no five-color shenanigans deck is complete without a Conflux and a Maelstrom Nexus.
July 26, 2015 1:11 a.m.
Interesting deck! What do you think about Restoration Angel and Cloudstone Curio ?
Also, I recommend City of Brass, Mana Confluence and possibly also Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth instead of Rupture Spire and Transguild Promenade.
Also Chromatic Lantern ?! Why don't you play it ?
I don't know if you are playing against any kind of hate (like Torpor Orb for example), but Reclamation Sage could help you destroy a lot of stuff. Commander is full of ETB trigger creatures and blinking them seems like a lot of fun.
May 5, 2017 6:53 a.m. Edited.
JaceTheSwagSculptor says... #11
Since you're always looking to improve the deck, here is some food for thought...
Your curve is VERY high, almost 5, and you only have about 5 sources of ramp which come down pretty slow aside from Farseek. Since your curve is really high and your ramp sources are few and far between, the likelihood of you getting stuck on mana is high.
You have a minimal amount of card advantage and tutors. I get the whole no infinite combo thing as I'm not too fond of them myself, but you need to be able to recover after board wipes, hand destruction, or just the general fact that your hand size will diminish as you play cards.
You need a focused win-con. You cannot expect to win the game just by getting value off of ETB effects.
May 5, 2017 9:52 a.m.
Needs more Hushwing Gryff
For serious, though, looks like fun. Tons of neat synergies.
I agree with above posters: you should be running a lot more Ramp. Stuff like Kor Cartographer, Knight of the White Orchid, Silverglade Elemental, Yavimaya Dryad will help you out a lot, if you pack your mana base with the cheap dual-type lands (like from Amonkhet or Cinder Glade).
Not sure what to cut. Best advice: just play a lot of games, and think critically the whole time about what cards are disappointing you or not pulling their weight. Stuff might seem good but die immediately, or you might draw into stuff and think "well this is useless right now." Cut those cards.
May 5, 2017 11:26 a.m.
Snickles@EDH_only says... #13
I personally thing you would do better with Horde of Notions as your general. I know a guy at out local shop who has a crazy amount of synergy with the lorwyn block evoke elementals, like Mulldrifter, Shriekmaw, and Slithermuse, while also boosting the mass removal with Bane of Progress and Dread, while Purity and Omnath, Locus of Rage provide deterrence.
it also would make sense for Dust Elemental, Grave Sifter, Incandescent Soulstoke, Smokebraider, and Flamekin Harbinger if you end up going that route. Finally, Thunderblust or Torrent Elemental are decent assault cards that provide recursion.
May 5, 2017 10:44 p.m.
Alrighty, so from the top.
To Iron_Cube: Restoration Angel and Cloudstone Curio seem like pretty solid options that I'm still considering, but I'm not sure yet what to cut. If I had to choose between the two I would go with just Cloudstone Curio. The land recommendations are good, but not my style. I can't bear to hurt myself to gain that mana, because I hate when I have all the colors I need and I'm still hurting myself late game. I also feel that you might bed horrified to learn that I just took Chromatic Lantern out. I did this because the mana has been really smooth lately. No one in my playgroup plays hate, but if they did no ETB would help. Ixidron can flip Hushwing Gryff and Merciless Eviction can remove whatever else. Reclamation Sage is a solid choice, but I already have 6 different (but spendier) ways to remove artifacts\ enchantments.
To JaceTheSwagSculptor: You're right, my mana curve is unfortunately very high. I rarely run into color problems, but I need to have a lot of mana to be able to do the things I need to do. Somewhere around 10-13 mana is when I get my elbow room. Regarding board wipes, in the early game I keep my hand full by playing things that help me and blinking/bouncing them, rather than playing more cards. When board wipes come up, I don't have a lot to lose, and/or I can frequently save them with Crystal Shard, Eerie Interlude, Flickerwisp, Ghostway, Mistmeadow Witch, Otherworldly Journey, Roon of the Hidden Realm, and Turn to Mist. This has frequently caused board wipes to backfire on opponents. And with Eternal Witness or Archaeomancer, the instants are retrieved. And the card advantage options I have work well for me, if I draw them of course. But I can easily topdeck a Temur Ascendancy, Cloudblazer, Coiling Oracle, or Eternal Witness and get 2-6 cards into my hand. As for the win-con, it's pretty unfocused. My strategy is rather drawn out, maybe painful. Opponents usually run out of cards, lose their permanents, and then I'll kill with Cromat or Magister Sphinx. I play a strategy that is perhaps frowned upon, where I just try to leave them with nothing. No hand, no permanents. Unfocused. However, I do win fairly often against a competitive playgroup, and it is very rewarding for me. Do you have any win-con suggestions? I haven't really seen anything that feels that conclusive. although Rite of Replication can sometimes be very conclusive.
To Alkadron: I'm glad you think it looks fun! As for the ramp suggestions you posted, Kor Cartographer appeals to me. I had forgotten about him because I only recently got the last 2 shocklands, both containing white. I already have 2 ways to fetch my forests, and it hurts me inside when I draw one of those after all my forests are out. So I don't want to overdo it. And Knight of the White Orchid is uncomfortably conditional. And those cheap dual-type lands are good suggestions, but I have the shocklands for that purpose already, and I've worked on avoiding lands that enter tapped, since originally all my lands did that. I know that this isn't ramp, but for the purposes of consistently hitting land drops, what do you think of Shard Convergence? Does anyone have experience with this? And I appreciate the advice about critically evaluating cards. Mindclaw Shaman is an example of a hit-or-miss card that sometimes has little value, sometimes is crucial. I'll keep my eye on those cards. Thank you for that advice.
To Snickles@EDH_only: Horde of Notions looks like a very fun commander with plenty of potential, but I consider that to be a very different deck, because I don't want to be limited to elementals. The deck is just too different.
I love the responses, and you've helped me to remember forgotten cards, narrow down some problem areas, and reevaluate wincons. Please keep it coming!
May 6, 2017 1:36 p.m.
JaceTheSwagSculptor says... #15
If your group doesn't have the potential to win before turn 10 then it's probably not that competitive. Your deck seems fairly slow in that it has a plethora of ETB tapped lands and a lack of tutors.
There is nothing wrong with having a few cute interactions like blink + random card draw creature but it should not be your main source of card advantage. Look for singleton cards that have a high impact like Consecrated Sphinx, Phyrexian Arena, or Recurring Insight.
As for your win-con's, I suppose eventually exiling everyone's permenants with the Venser emblem is alright. However, there are easier ways to do that with single cards like Armageddon + an established board. Understandably, though, it's more satisfying to do it the way you described.
Although I criticized you for having an unfocused win-con, I have to admit it is fairly difficult to come up with a win-con for "value creature" deck that does not want to go infinite. You run into the all too common issue in EDH of not having a consistent way to win. My suggestion would be to run more lockout effects to help you close out games like Hokori, Dust Drinker , Gaddock Teeg, Void Winnower, and the like.
May 6, 2017 2:33 p.m.
Fun fact: I kind of hate all of JaceTheSwagSculptor's suggestions. Armageddon is straight obnoxious, and I deeply distrust anyone who suggests lockout strategies - why would anyone sit down to play a multiplayer game, but their goal from the start is to prevent everyone else from playing that game? Rude. Also Consecrated Sphinx is stupid and ugly.
They get bonus points for referring to your entire strategy as "cute" and then telling you what your strategy should be, and double bonus points for naming themselves a "swag sculptor." Points are negative. (I'm half joking, I'm sure JaceTheSwagSculptor is a fun person to play against and an excellent and well-informed resource in highly competitive environments.)
Shard Convergence seems like good fixing, but not as good as Chromatic Lantern. If you just cut the lantern, I don't think there's any place for the Convergence. I mean, I guess if you're routinely missing turn 6, 7, 8, land-drops and being really sad about it, then sure, Shard Convergence is your remedy. I would focus more on repeatable EtB effects, though, like the Kor Cartographer and the dual-type lands to both fix and ramp.
May 6, 2017 5:32 p.m.
JaceTheSwagSculptor says... #17
@Alkadron: If you read through my post carefully you will see I do NOT suggest Armageddon and advise different methods.
Jeez! The personal attacks are real. Calm down there friend, remember this is a forum we are speaking on. No need to insult me. We have different EDH ideologies and that's fine. What I believe to be a highly optimal card may not be your cup of tea. Remember the OP will make the decision how he wants to play his deck in the end, not us.
May 6, 2017 10:44 p.m.
I'm perfectly calm.
I think you're interpreting my comments way more personally than I meant them. Sorry if that came off really aggressive; I meant it more playfully. I'll be more careful about word choice next time I insult strangers on a public forum ;)
I acknowledge that your suggestions are really high powered, and that you're probably a fun opponent and an excellent source of suggestions in high-powered settings.
I just... personally hate all of those cards. Seeing other people play them makes me want to not be in those games. Consecrated Sphinx and Armageddon especially. They just make games not fun for me, but since banning them's not an option, I try to get people to not play them using the power of shame.
I also don't think a deck like this needs a dedicated and consistent win-con, and if it does, I really hope it's a more interactive one than lock-down, grind-out, tedium.
May 7, 2017 12:01 a.m.
JaceTheSwagSculptor says... #19
@Alkadron: There was no way that was passive and was undeniably insulting. You insulted my username, my speech pattern, and my character. I hate to say it, but maybe you should try re-reading your previous post. After going through the first two paragraphs, you should quickly realize the minuscule amount of merit your sudden change in nature holds.
Regardless, I'd hate to clutter the OP's deck with meaningless bickering when he is trying to get help, so hopefully we can leave it at this.
May 7, 2017 12:35 a.m.
To JaceTheSwagSculptor: No offense intended, of course, but based upon your suggestions and your Zur deck that I peeked at, I think that your playstyle differs too much from mine. I enjoy playing games that vary more by having less tutors, and most of the ones that I do have will put my answers straight onto the field, sometimes instantly, and repeatably. Consecrated Sphinx draws hate and doesn't fit the flavor. Doesn't make the suggestion bad though, since the card is undeniably good. I also don't enjoy playing with lockdown or destroying my own lands.
To Alkadron: I think that your playstyle is more in tune with mine. Shard Convergence isn't about the fixing, but rather about helping me to have a larger mana pool to work with late game. It gives me enough mana to respond to my own triggers and opponents' responses. And then hopefully enough to rescue my creatures from a boardwipe or spot removal. But, for ramp purposes, I've changed my mind back to Kor Cartographer. Combined with Wood Elves, I can fetch a total of 8 lands and put them into play. That has about the same effect as Shard Convergence, but faster. Chromatic Lantern hasn't been missed, because fixing isn't really an issue for me. Not enough mana is my problem. Do you really recommend more of those dual-type lands? They have basic land names, yes, but so do my shock lands, but they would all enter tapped, which I sincerely want to avoid. I appreciate the advice, thank you. I think this is about as complete as I can get it at the moment.
Any further ideas, hit me.
May 7, 2017 1:37 a.m.
"Do you really recommend more of those dual-type lands?"
I honestly do not know the answer to this question; you gotta playtest to find out. If you're regularly Fail-To-Find-ing with the Wood Elves and the Cartographer, then definitely add some Amonkhet Bicycle lands, maybe instead of some of the tri-color EtB Tapped guys (since you're clearly getting the fixing you need). If the Tri-color lands are doing solid work for you and you're not missing land-fetch EtB triggers 'cause you've run out, then stick with what you've got.
Let me know how it goes!
May 7, 2017 2:48 a.m.
JaceTheSwagSculptor says... #22
@CoryDean: That Zur deck is not mine, I built it for someone else hence why it says "...copy."
The only things I own on my profile are the Sigarda deck and the cube. If you took the time to read Sigarda and did not just look for the deck that fit your purpose then you would know that my meta does not allow MLD (as it is stated in Sigarda's description).
You mentioned to me in a previous post that "you win fairly often in a fairly competitive playgroup" and this would imply to me that MLD, tutors, and lockdown are all commonplace for you to encounter. Thus it would be OK for me to suggest cards akin to this.
To touch upon another point, your description is misleading then. It says you are always looking to improve your deck, but this is false based on your most recent post since you claim flovor is more important.
May 7, 2017 9:47 a.m.
LivingThing says... #24
just curious, who was the old commander? nice deck btw
February 16, 2020 9:50 p.m.
Thank you. Old commander was Cromat. He wasn't quite cutting it.
Dromar39 says... #1
What no Palinchron? soulbound him with Deadeye Navigator for the extra overkill on infinite mana.
May 2, 2015 9:31 p.m.