Jinandtonic123 the deck can (and will) beat people just by grinding them into the ground. especially in matchups where players are using their life totals aggressively, for Ad Naus and the like, vial smasher triggers can easily win you the game if things go long enough. you want to be triggering vial smasher anyways, to reap the benefits of curiosity and friends, so it basically gives you the option of "oops, my walue grinding kind of killed you all, gg"

Gotcha. When I build it I might try out a Bolas’ Citadel/Aetherflux Reservoir Package as an alternate wincon and see how it goes, can always take it out for more interaction if necessary but I feel both pieces are good enough on their own

Also have 2 Curiosity effects generally been enough? We only have a couple ways of getting them back and they fall off when Vial Smasher dies, which I feel will be at least once or twice a game. Although I suppose by that point thrasios engine should be online

Jinandtonic123 Fortunately, the Curiosity effects aren't critical to actually winning the game, so losing them sucks, but it's no too big of a deal. 2 is fine, as the other options are all 3+ mana, which really isn't where we want to be for value engines. Also, Sygg functions as a pseudo-curiosity a lot of the time by turning Vial pings into draws.

Woah Man, this deck has serious game against similar PST style decks... which is like the defacto deck of the format. Been loving it.

Why no Narset, Parter of Veils ? She seems like an auto include, not only do you wall tymna, even if something does get through they dont get anything, also it helps with the gitrog problem because they have to go to gitrog beats in order to make any headway, she also doesn't carry the risk that notion theif does of an opponent forcing you to deck yourself.

Also Arcane Artisan seems like some cute tech if you put in maybe a Niv-Mizzet, Parun . Also instant speed gilded drake token seems like a really good way to get someone.

Omnisurge why would you put a bad shitty interaction? This deck already reacts at instant speed to everything. Why add slow ass cards... and bad cards at that.. or high costing cards that do things we are already running? Literally makes no sense.

So you are saying let's literally ruin the deck consistency, for lesser cards? Worse versions of things we already run? Why? Like legit why?

With MH1 is it right to simply cut signets and instead play talismans? As you said before life total isn't used much so it seems that talismans are strict upgrades except when they're used to filter colorless into colored.

Have you considered Narset, Parter of Veils?

Training grounds might be worth considering also.

How will this deck archetype adapt with the banning of Paradox Engine ?

I want to build similar deck but with additional Bolas Citadel wincon. Is it good idea to play slower deck in hulk/derevi stax/ kess doomsday meta?

Just finished sleeving this up last night and I look forward to playing it through out this weekend:D

My only confusion comes from Tainted Pact and Demonic Consultation , are they strictly for Jace, Wielder of Mysteries wins or are they used outside of that? If so for what? Black in cEDH is entirely new to me and I want make sure I am making the most viable decisions when I run into cards. Many thanks in advance.

Thoughts on Dockside Extortionist ? Is he worth it?

I'd say no. he's more at home in a combo list, since he's basically a super-powered ritual (at least in cEDH). 4c rashmi wants reusable mana sources, since this deck wants to either grind for turn after turn or else combo with isochron scepter

What's your thought about As Foretold since it allow a free ''each turn spell''?

Wouldn't be Training Grounds plus Estrid's Invocation a valid combo? Total cost of the combo is almost the same, and both of the cards metioned aren't bad alone, plus Estrid's Invocation , can help you to combo off even if you played it before.

Ok nevermind

How does this deck compare to Season's Pastigur? They both seem to have strong control game plans and resilient combo finishes. Is this deck better than Pastigur when you don't have a lot of Tymna in your meta?

Is Expansion//Explosion not viable in this list?

Hi!

First off, I love the deck. I have a soft spot for Vial smasher+Thrasios ever since partners were printed. Taking my love for control into account, I greatly appreciate your work here.

I have a question; how does this compare to Consultation scepter Tasigur? Gameplay, matchups, card choices...anything helps. I’m interested in building one of these two. If I make Tas, I’m planning to go a bit heavy on the bordwipes and lighter on the small creatures, like you did here.

My meta is always changing, but mainstays are; Blood pod, Shimmer Zur, Najeela, First sliver FC, Gitrog. There are more, but not as prominent. Save for Blood pod, I occasionally see Tymna in TnT Hulk variations. If there are other specific decks I should point out, just say so.

Also, I’m missing 3 fetchlands (Mesa, Marsh, Tarn), and I don’t have any ABU duals. Regarding both 3c and 4c with Consultation, does this significantly push/weaken one or the other?

Thank you in advance for the feedback!

Having some decks Urza Power Scepter, Najeela Tempo, Gitrog Dredge Combo and Teshar Art Combo, I currently play Tasigur Neo Citadel and TnV Tainted Temur Scepter and personally I can say that these are two completely different decks. Despite the fact that both are playing iso rev, are two completely different styles of play. Tasigur is more focused on control other combo decks and TnV is a good response to aggro like Seton, Najeela, Teshar and others. Last Saturday I played about 30 games with Temur Hulk GOlos and Muldrotha Stax Hulk and both decks had a stable situation but Tasigur was better choice with repeatalbe spot removalt for Muldy and counters. I tried to initially change Tasigur into TnV citadel combo but this deck works best with temur hulk, iso rev and tainted jace. Tnv had many situations that I picked a huge number of cards from thrasios and I had a lot of land but nothing else. For slower meta I recomend Tasigur. In flash hulk meta both decks are good cause we have crop -> bojuka, and free counters.

@Beast_Within

Thank you for the clarification! I’m in a midrange-y/slow meta with healthy amount of stax. People threaten wins early and some decks can and do win t2-4, but because everyone packs interaction and/or stax, it’s unusual for our games to end so fast. Thank you again.

If anyone has anything to add, I’d gladly hear more.

I'm looking into building this deck, but I have to start somewhere. What are the key cards in order to make this deck work?