I think we're in the same boat. Gruul Charm could just be Plummet if your only using it for the flyers.

As for Pithing Needle id works on some key creatures as well remember. Voyaging Satyr Trostani, Selesnya's Voice AEtherling Scavenging Ooze Deathrite Shaman . Let us not forget the gods or their weapons activated abilities. Or ANY of the monstrous creatures.

right

maybe clear the discustion once u have all the ideas from the comments so that its no soooooooooo looooooooong.

I look at it this way, gruul charm isnt exactly just for flyers but it does help vs mono blue very well also vs aggro its good too, you get to the point where you can swing and win but they have too many chumps out then fine gruul and win, it has come to happen alot where I would have like 2 embers swallowers out and they have somthing large and I can't swing out in fear of being swung on by a huge hydra but if I was able to swing i had plenty to kill them, being you have no kill and. Maybe you were forced to bramble crush a plains walker or demolish a whip of erebos now they are getting the hand up from land draw you just have no room for kill or the colors to do it so the only way I have found to overcome that is to bypass them with gruul charm thus sideboard, I see the uses from the viper but your generaly going to lose that creature. Plus there is like fleecrmain that sucks if he gets monstrous and the damn regen trolls in most cases you would just swing with gruul charm on the stack and boom th I dunno it works for me but I also run plummet because mono black and blue and. There are some good flyers like spellheart and stormbreath and specter to name a few, they are just so multi purpose.

true but idk i would need to playtest more against those kinds of decks and having those problems.

Vs mono green ramp and green red ramp that run domari, they will be droping big things and it end up with you being over run unless you wrath of the gods or mortar on turn 4 but none the less they are going to drop burning tree and mana dorks and your between a rock and a hard place mid game is going to be all or nothing unless you get the right opening hand and a few lucky top decks. But like someone has stated before look at the meta of your local shops, at mine you see mono black, red deck wins, mono blue, esper, blue white control , and a ton of red green midrange so it makes sence in my local

I may have an awesome deck here, bt I am still new to this site. How would one go about deleting unnecessary posts? this one being the first to go...

u would have to delete all the posts. actually u would ''cover'' them up. when ur at the top of the page near the bottom of ur description u can add an update. when u do u have the option to clear the discussion. but if u delete the update all the comments will come back.

What do you think of Sylvan Primordial , it may be expensive to play, but it destroys one of their lands, and shuts out Stormbreath Dragon and Desecration Demon . The fetchland part also allows for more emptying into a mana sink, such as Polukranos, World Eater , or Mistcutter Hydra . You could even put in a Savageborn Hydra , which in my opinion is better than Mistcutter Hydra

i never noticed that Sylvan Primordial could actually b effectively used! i like it but what would u take out?

it would fill the hole left by Arbor Colossus if he played it, so in this case it would be the Stormbreath Dragon , however I would consider it over Polukranos, World Eater because this deck already has a lot of 4 drops

but then without Polukranos, World Eater there wouldn't be a late game sink to take up all of the mana you have at your disposal, so maybe not

true. maybe 1 polukranos and 1 stormbreath?

mabe see my deck Land Destruction is back! and see what to take out cuz i want to work it in my deck but idk what.....i was thinking 1x Arbor Colossus and 1x world eater

Arbor and primortal are out the window look at it this way the whole idea is to slow them down enough they have a heavy hand drop ember turn 4 because turn 3 you blew up a land, 4 prolly ember, turn 5 stormbreath or xenagos (prolly the better play but situational, turn 6. You should have the mana for monstrous, if they have 4 lands on the board its now 1 that's pending they didn't miss a land drop so that mean they either burned their kill spell or they are screwed, turn 7 should be like another bramble crush and stormbreath because you should have the mana from xenagos. So by this time if they still have a foothold its going the long game and that's doubtful with even a decent hand. The only way they will win is if they burn or kill your ramp early and dont miss a land drop for 6+ turns. These 7drops and the such are not good since if you get them opening hand its a dead card for 5 turns most likely and that is the deciding window. Pulkranos is a 5/5 for 4 you can't beat that so the turn after you drop him if they have junk on the board he is gonna eat it,. They HAVE to have an answer for him that being said if you went first then they have 2 mana on the board, forcing them to burn the answer for him by staying untaped and passing. So knowing they have it at that point blow up a land and force it so you can drop ember or stormbreath. Or pop another land.

that was a messy post >.> sorry if it does not make so much sense lol

dizzzyme, I see what you are saying and I think that it's very insightful and makes a lot of sense. I can see why Sylvan Primordial would not fit. I do however fear that things wont usually go as smoothly as you listed, and the person using this deck will need to take a more defensive role if say, a turn 4 or 5 Desecration Demon came down. I believe that that is very possible since the removal in black and Thoughtseize /Duress , could really slow you down. I think there need to be an effective counter to the black devotion decks. Perhaps better card draw? I'm not entirely sure if there is a way to fit something that could be significantly effective into the main or sideboard.

I guess Xenagos, The Reveler could keep popping out babies to feed to the demon, but Hero's Downfall would quickly rid of that

right thats y i said Arbor Colossus cuz its a 6/6 for 5 and when u make him monstrous u ping a flyer and then its a 9/9.....plus it has reach. but again Hero's Downfall gets rid of it. but ur opponent only has 4 downfall. if ur dropping a world eater on turn 3, colossus turn 4, turn 5 play an Ember Swallower or make the colossus monstrous or play xenagos, then turn 6 u have 3 threats and then u play another one thats all 4 downfall. of course they have other removal but u have other threats.

even if u have Stormbreath Dragon AND Arbor Colossus that just means more threats

Finally playtested this against my Naya deck (Look, Mister Frodo, Smiters.), and this deck went 2-1. The win my deck got was just good draws (smiter, boros charm, unflinching courage FTW!) but otherwise it was hopeless. Most of the time Naya had 2, occasionally 3 lands out.

Xenagos, The Reveler is a truck in this deck and is really what makes it unstoppable. Now I'm just dying to play it against my local control-crazy meta!

K1LR0Y the main priority of this deck is to destroy lands, and some of the time I think they could drop a demon on you, and if they don't, then they will still kill everything you play. I think the best option for this would be to sideboard out all of the small burn spells for the Plummet s and 2 of some other creature, which I think should be a Mistcutter Hydra over an Arbor Colossus . I think that with the mass amounts of mana that this deck can produce, the hydra serves as a great mana sink and once they get the demon out, you can turn it into a race rather than trying to stall with the Arbor Colossus . Also by adding more creatures, you can trade with more of their removal and hopefully run them dry. Also more creatures means that a turn 1 Thoughtseize isn't as effective. I still think we should look for a more substantial solution.

mealdeal805, I feel your thought here and if it does not go as smoothly like I had already addressed if you get thought seized early game your most likely going to lose that its pre determined if they get your ramp your out of the game vs mono black and that is why its so powerful right now. I agree that desecration demon is gonna be a hard one BUT that being said just sideboard 4 plummets and leave out the arbor colossus, either way its a dead card but I would rather have plummet over the creature. yes they are going to have downfall and crap to worry about but again knowing the game will get you a long ways, if you drop ember or pulkranos and they don't EOT downfall it then you know desiccation is coming and that they wont drop him till second main phase after they swing, and the reason I do say leave out the colossus is that you really have to commit to the monstrous because in the end its going to be played out most likely this way - Desecration demon pass, Arbor colossus pass, insert random action here based off of their mana pool pass, im going to monstrous right? wrong in response (insert random kill card here) now im 9 mana deep for ZERO return when I could of just plummeted the target I was after anyway and not wasted 2 turns. speed over anything else man odds are you could of popped a land and plummeted on the turn after he drops the demon and save the demolish for whip that your gonna see vs mono black. in the end no amount of talk will change the outcome of your draws and what you do and don't have in your hand and thought seize is gonna be a tough pill to swallow but don't worry about 1 card so much man there are worse things out there than a stupid 6/6 for 4 because you didn't have a great opening hand. I know there are some bad examples after re reading this but you get the idea that its not viable the way you would expect it to be.

Love how this deck has evolved and I'm taking a version to my FNM tonight after your inspiration!

Just a quick one: how come you've chosen Polukranos, World Eater instead of something like Nylea, God of the Hunt ? I can see how the hydra is good, but it's much easier to remove than Nylea and doesn't rely on lands to get better (since destroying three of your own with Ember Swallower happens a lot! Plus the trample helps you bypass chump blockers which is really all your opponent should be dropping with little mana.

Just wondered! Great deck!

yea i was thinking about nylea but idk. and about the plummet thing, i agreed with it rather then arbor colossus because if we r having problems with black devotion then that means ur colossus is useless cuz it will die. plummet is straight forward and black doesnt have counter spells......unless they r splashing blue so they can use a scryland and side counter spells but i havent seen a version like that yet.