I ask because my play group has a ton of hatebears. While I probably am the only one playing a tier 1 deck it can still be tough at times unless i win by turn 3, Which can happen about 40 to 50 percent of the time.

HD cannot go off if linvala is out, and funny enough, and although its not a strong deck, a friend of mine runs her. When she hits, it sucks for a deck like this. So how would you deal with a general that hates out your deck? Should I run some sideboard removal. Right now I am thinking pongify and rapid hybridization. They seem better then beast within for cost. Let me know your thoughts.

We have an answer to any hoser general with plenty of ways to tutor for it in Gilded Drake so that would be my first go to answer since it is better than removal in that they lose access to thier commander until they spend mana and a card to kill thier own general.

With that being said, pongify and rapid hybridization are strong options that double as a cheap way to kill hulk. I would slot in either in place of daze. With those two options plus chain of vapor you should have more than enough ways to clear away problematic creatures. Or you could just tainted pact and labman to get around linvala completely

Ok thanks. I will try them out then! I didn't even think about them as hulk combo peices so that is a plus too.

What are your thoughts on potentially including Breakfast combo in a Sidisi Hulk deck? Go get Cephalid Illusionist and Trinket Mage, Mage finds Shuko, mill your deck and go for Labman or Nooze kill

invigorate_berserk10: While that is a neat pile its a bit too bulky for this list and sorcery speed. The reason breakfast combo is so good is that it has extra cc to deal with hate pieces and stop interaction. This version requires Blood Pet to be "free" and has no real advantages over the HD piles. The only card I would want in my list would be trinket mage. If we had a good instant speed pile (no mike ballista, delver, sac outlet nonsense) I would definitely give it a try.

Thanks! I have the two pieces from when I first started to shift the deck to be competitive and just wanted another opinion on its viability given that hulk can lead to assembling it. I figured the lack of protection and sorcery speed were pretty significant cons while the only pro is that you can play it without needing white. Guess that's just one of the pains we have to deal with by not being Thrasios/Tymna players lol

Treasured Find ?

Treasured find is ok, but regrowth is much better and I dont really have the room for either card in this current build given how many slots are needed to make the combos function properly.

What is up with Mogis's Marauder ?

Nevermind.

Glad to see another streamlined BUG deck join the cEDH fold. I really like this list a lot. Map props to the person who found the Flash-Hulk win package! That is very elegant and precisely executed. Love it.

Thank you benjameenbear7 I am glad you like the list. monkeryz came up with that line and it is great.

"the deck is far more streamlined and Ad Naus is a legitimate 1 card win condition."

How? Please explain how this works? :)

At opponents endstep cast ad naus draw 15-20 cards. On your turn untap and use those cards (fast mana, tutors, combo pieces, protection) to win. If you have extra floating mana you can win during your main phase off ad naus in the same way as FC and flaah Hulk are efficient win conditions

@n0bunga I'm currently testing out a list that runs that Flash Hulk line, except I use Body Double instead of Phyrexian Delver. The 5+ mana-cost creatures make it trickier to run Ad Nauseam and there are times where you have them stuck in your hand without being able to contribute to any of your other combo lines. Mikaeus can't even give HD persist to help save it from removal, so I've found him hard to even justify as a reanimation target. However, the combo line does offer you another option if one of the Mogis/HD package cards is stuck in your hand. Not sure if it is worth it though, unless you are like me and don't own a copy of Ad Nauseam.

@Lilbrudder On the topic of the Mogis/HD package, I want to ask your opinion on something. I'm running a similar list to this one, but I have Thrasios and Vial Smasher as my commanders, giving me access to red. Keeping in mind that having red lets me run Wild Cantor, would it be worth replacing Mogis's Marauder with Lightning Mauler? I would be able to grab HD, Lightning Mauler, Wild Cantor, and another 1 drop like Hapless Researcher, use the the Mauler to give HD haste, and sac Cantor for the mana to activate HD.

I'm trying to decide whether the Mauler or Marauder offers more utility. Mauler has the option of being played from hand turn 2, and then I can threaten to cast AND activate HD every turn after that. But with the Mauler, I'll only ever be able to give 1 other creature haste. The Maruader can work with Vial Smasher out of my command zone to help make sure that I'll always be able to give 2 creatures haste, so if Deathrite Shaman is in my graveyard I would still be able to search out another mana dork and give it haste to help activate HD. The Marauder would also let me use either the Shaman or Cantor to get the mana needed for HD, whereas the Mauler would only work with the Cantor. With the testing you and LabManiac_Sigi have done, which would you say is more convenient for how the deck usually plays out?

n0bunga: That pile is the one I use for Demon Tyrant. Its actually better for some versions of SBT (Demon Tyrant) as it is instant speed so it can win on our endstep with necromancy. Delver also is a key piece to Razaketh's Buried Alive pile. The only advantage of the mogis line is that it is compact (which is essential for HD combo as it takes a ridiculous number of slots.

SaberTech: It seems to trade one truly horrible card for two meh cards. Since HD is so slot hungry I am not a huge fan of that but it is easier to use those creatures for other purposes than marauder. Are you using nooze or labman as the finisher? Its kind of a tossup imo, with a slight edge for Mogis because there are less combo pieces we need in library. If labman is your primary win condition I think being able to fit hapless researcher in the pile gives it an advantage.

My list generally tries to win with Nooze, but I get to trim the package a little because I use Morselhoarder + Devoted Druid, so I don't have to worry about the pieces needed to give Nooze haste. I don't own copies of Food Chain or Ad Nauseam, so my list goes more in on the Protean Hulk, Hermit Druid, and Nooze aspects of the deck with Labman thrown in as a plan C option. The upside is that using Morselhoarder makes running Buried Alive viable because I just need to reanimate Nooze and produce infinite mana, which then gets sunk into casting Thrasios and activating his ability to dig up counterspells and Walking Ballista to close out the game.

I'm curious about what that Razaketh Buried Alive pile you mentioned is, if you don't mind sharing.

Is there a reason that you don't also run Misthollow Griffin? Is it just because it can't be fetched in an efficient Hulk pile like Eternal Scourge?

It is just worse than scourge and I dont want both since this is not a devoted Food chain deck.

I know you tried to explain it in your primer, but I still struggle to understand why sbt over other sultai commander. When would you cast sidisi and how does she play into the strategy of the deck?

figured out to use SBT as food chain outlet to dump library into grave after getting infinite mana

Lin00b: My apologies for the lack of response. Things have been hectic lately. Yeah Food chain combo is her primary advantage over other sultai generals. The truth is you almost never want to cast her in this deck outside being a Food Chain outlet. However, for truly competitive play all sultai generals are at a distinct disadvantage to partners and Tazri. This deck (and others like it) has inspired some truly powerful decks, so I am happy that it was a stepping stone to progress. If you want better versions of this deck see Sigi's Breakfast Hulk and Biopower's Tazri Druid Hulk.

Both decks are essentially strict upgrades and both came into existence soon after I finished this primer. If you like SBT I do have a list that is more catered to her abilities in Demon Tyrant, but even that is worse than what one could make using partners and maybe even Tazri.

Question with the removal of Phantasmagorian what is the new Hermit druid line. The one you have requires Phantasmagorian which is great since it lets you remove the cards you need from hand. The Cephalid Inkshroude I feel takes longer cause requires him to be on the field .

There are some situations where phantasmo is better but I think you misunderstand what i am saying. You reanimate nooze and it gains inskhrounders ability (since it will be in the graveyard). Then you discard the cards you need to win. This stops people from killing nooze when you try to give it haste as it now has shroud. It works just as well as phantasmagorian except if dread return, nooze, or fatestitcher are in hand. Ir works better than Phantasmo if you have less than 3 cards in hand.