A Little Lesson In Recursion Theory

Modern* slovakattack

SCORE: 99 | 383 COMMENTS | 13885 VIEWS | IN 42 FOLDERS


GlistenerAgent says... #1

Remand isn't a good fit here. It's good in decks that want to delay you to get set up, or combo decks that want to find their pieces. Here, you want to stop all their resources cold, instead of simply delaying them. I am very impressed that you found such a good deal. I personally just bought a full (sideboard included) Scapeshift that is within 5-10 cards of my own at about $250 less than retail price. :)

The other fetchlands that already would have worked are Misty Rainforest and Marsh Flats , meaning that you had really good mana already. Having access to up to 24 (obviously you'll never play all of them) fetchlands is great.

I don't like counterspells in this deck, but the changes you suggested seem fine to me. Having a counterspell is nice from time to time. :)

September 7, 2014 11:32 a.m.

slovakattack says... #2

GlistenerAgent: Nice! I'm pretty excited to hear how your Scapeshift deck works out. When Khans comes out, Imma get me a set of the Polluted Delta , and see if the zendikar fetches don't take a price hit as well before going to tournaments with the deck. One last thing: I kinda feel like my sideboard is weird. On the subject of Sun Titan , do you think he's worth including in the mainboard as a 1 of? If he isn't, then he probably shouldn't be in the sideboard either.

September 7, 2014 12:36 p.m.

GlistenerAgent says... #3

Since this deck is still in the works, expect your sideboard to look really strange for a while. As you find what cards work and what don't, it will start to look a lot more fluent. Make sure you write down every card that you see in a maindeck/sideboard slot while you research decks (tournaments, MTGO, etc.). You never know when a card may be really appealing and useful for your meta.

I still am not sure about Sun Titan . Abusing him with Liliana of the Veil is very nice, but so is abusing Wurmcoil Engine with Academy Ruins . It depends on what plan will be most effective for the decks you play against: both are good against control, but the former is better against combo decks while the latter is better against midrange and other creature decks.

Give consideration to Damnation instead of Day of Judgment . It's a strict upgrade in this deck, but I can understand the price issue. I have no idea why that card is so expensive. :)

I've seen Iona relegated to the sideboard a lot, with nothing to take her place. Grave Titan is something I saw once, and it also seems interesting.

September 7, 2014 1:27 p.m.

slovakattack says... #4

GlistenerAgent: Grave titan is absolutely insane with Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite . He's basically Hero of Bladehold on crack.

As for Damnation ... Yeah, price, basically. The reason why it's so expensive is wholly dependent on the fact that it's been printed in 2 sets, as opposed to Wrath of God which has been printed in 17 sets.

I think that you're right, and that a lot of my picks will be meta-dependent... but I actually wind up travelling a lot, and it may be difficult for me to lock down a specific meta, if you know what I mean.

September 7, 2014 1:33 p.m.

GlistenerAgent says... #5

Try the Grave Titan - Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite package in the main. You can actually cast the Titan, unlike Iona, so that may be something interesting to have going on. It makes multiple guys, so if they remove it you still got some value.

September 7, 2014 1:38 p.m.

GlistenerAgent says... #6

I would play Polluted Delta and Flooded Strand over Marsh Flats , but testing will take care of that.

September 8, 2014 8:16 p.m.

slovakattack says... #7

GlistenerAgent: Oh, totally. I bought a box of Khans, and I'm greatly looking forward to getting parts of a set! :3

Once they're released, the mana base will look a lot smoother.

September 8, 2014 8:28 p.m.

Hallowed_Titan says... #8

Nice dude. Let me know how playing this works out at competitive events!

September 14, 2014 11:23 a.m.

GlistenerAgent says... #9

You're missing a Dismember . I'd cut a Path to Exile or Mana Leak .

September 17, 2014 8:38 p.m.

slovakattack says... #10

Dismember kinda weirds me out in this build, because of the lifeloss and the fact that I figure it'll be pretty hard for this deck to stabilize enough as it is.

If I did add it though, do you think cutting Slaughter Pact would be a no-no? I've never used it before, so I don't know just how good of a tempo card it is. If not, I'd probably get rid of a Mana Leak .

September 17, 2014 8:44 p.m.

Well, Slaughter Pact is really nice because it keeps them guessing. You tap out for Liliana of the Veil , they EOT Deceiver Exarch into Splinter Twin and lose on the spot. Mana Leak seems like a fine cut.

September 17, 2014 9:07 p.m.

slovakattack says... #12

True, true. I'll try a build with it in it :3

September 17, 2014 9:49 p.m.

SaumusThe3rd says... #13

Urg... so... many... one-of's... consistency.... down the drain.....

September 20, 2014 8:13 p.m.

@SaumusThe3rd

Gifts Ungiven ... Those one-ofs are five-ofs. Have you ever seen a Birthing Pod deck?

September 20, 2014 8:19 p.m.

Blizzicane says... #15

SaumusThe3rd He is playing 4C Gifts which uses Gifts Ungiven as its focus so this many one-of's are perfectly normal for this type of deck. :3

September 20, 2014 8:21 p.m.

Blizzicane says... #16

Beaten to the punch, well that what I get for living my reply hanging while I was creating a deck. XP

September 20, 2014 8:23 p.m.

slovakattack says... #17

Heh. Beaten to the punch, thanks GlistenerAgent and Blizzicane (awesome look for your name btw. o-o)

@SaumusThe3rd, they basically said it all. The 1-offs I have are made more consistent if you look at Gifts Ungiven as potential copies of every card, which is largely how the deck functions, and the main point of going gifts in the first place.

@GlistenerAgent: I think I might mainboard Inquisition of Kozilek instead of Thoughtseize , as it looks like it'll be pretty hard for me to stabilize my life, here- and I'm planning on a long, grindy game to the finish.

September 20, 2014 11 p.m.

That sounds very reasonable. If you can, try sideboarding the Thoughtseize for combo matchups.

September 21, 2014 8:21 a.m.

slovakattack says... #19

I have 2x Thoughtseize and 1 Duress sideboarded just for that :3

September 21, 2014 8:44 a.m.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the order of your color needs from highest to lowest priority is black - green - blue - white. Because of this, I recommend your 10 fetches be 4 Verdant Catacombs , 3 Polluted Delta , 2 Misty Rainforest and 1 Marsh Flats /Windswept Heath . Your playtesting may have suggested otherwise, though.

September 21, 2014 4:58 p.m.

slovakattack says... #21

GlistenerAgent, no, that sounds pretty accurate. However, I've usually found that the advantage that 4 colors has over 3 is that it's much easier to search up alternate colors by using only a single half of the card color.

Yes, my optimal T1 is a black mana, but that can be fetched with all the fetches listed. (Verdant Catacombs obviously fetches it, as does Polluted Delta , but Windswept Heath is just as capable of snagging an Overgrown Tomb , Godless Shrine and Watery Grave on turn 1, or any other.

Indeed, I've found it quite useful to heavily spec into green, as it is the color needed to cast Sylvan Caryatid and Abrupt Decay (and to a lesser extent, Maelstrom Pulse ) which is important for killing Blood Moon . I do see what you're saying, and I doubt the deck would be any worse off with the way you've set up your mana. However, it'd mean about a couple hundred dollar difference to me at the moment, as I managed to get a set of Windswept Heath for very cheap!)

I will keep testing, obviously, and if it truly makes a massive impact, I can liquidate my set of Heath in order to procure Polluted Delta .

September 21, 2014 9:09 p.m.

Well, Khans fetchlands are all around $15-20, so the Polluted Delta s will be less of a problem.

The goal with more on-color fetches is to make sure you can get basics more often that are in the colors you need to avoid too much damage. Windswept Heath can get all your colors, yes, but would you play 10 of them?

September 21, 2014 9:17 p.m.

slovakattack says... #23

Fair point, fair point. I'm more worried about Misty Rainforest than Delta (I already pretty much have the main one, Verdant Catacombs.)

How does 4x Verdant Catacombs , 3x Polluted Delta , 2x Windswept Heath and 1x Marsh Flats sound? (remember, I am biased, as I already have a set of Windswept Heath :x)

September 21, 2014 10:07 p.m.

That actually sounds completely fine. I would go about getting Flooded Strand though, as you seem a little bit light on blue mana with that configuration.

Is it just me, or is the art on the Khans fetches just too sexy to pass up?

September 21, 2014 10:08 p.m.

The first thing, and the one that hurts the most, is that Gifts is hard pressed to be tier 1 as Remand is heavily played in the format, and GY hate is rampant.

Beyond that, something that jumps out at me is your lack of embracing Gifts in it's entirety lol. What I mean by that is you have a relatively low count of differently named cards. For instance, the 3x Mana Leak , what purpose do they serve? could it not be a Mana Leak , Remand , and Negate ? Because we run answers, that Gifts can find, our counterspells serve the same purpose. They are our answer to Combo decks or protection, and should be treated as such. As for the rest, it seems pretty standard. I prefer having Wraths and some number of thoughtseize in the main, but I don't know your meta. In a meta full of Pod, it's nice to have wraths.

September 22, 2014 12:14 a.m.

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