A Little Lesson In Recursion Theory

Modern* slovakattack

SCORE: 99 | 383 COMMENTS | 13885 VIEWS | IN 42 FOLDERS


GlistenerAgent says... #1

One of each. You're playing four Demonic Tutor , after all.

October 30, 2014 8:04 p.m.

slovakattack says... #2

Derp. Right xD

Goodness, I'm foolish sometimes.

The reason that Linvala's in the side board really, is because I feel no need to have both Wurmcoil Engine and Batterskull in the deck, and if one has the capacity to be mainboarded, I'll cut the other.

That, however, leaves a slot open in my sideboard. If you have any ideas on how to fill it, I'd love to hear them.

October 30, 2014 8:07 p.m.

slovakattack says... #3

GlistenerAgent: After thinking about it, I'm inclined to agree with your assessment of Linvala. I think I'm going to go for Timely Reinforcements instead, as it is a good sideboard card against aggro/burn, and doesn't step on Batterskull's toes.

Plus, I love the card. It's badass.

November 2, 2014 8:58 p.m.

JexInfinite says... #4

What's the Raven's Crime for? It seems pretty out of place, but there's probably an awesome synergy I'm missing.

November 2, 2014 9:11 p.m.

bigguy99 says... #5

Have you thought of making this a five color deck? It would change things up entirely but you'd be able to add bolts and some other interesting control stuff like Ral Zarek . The idea's a bit out there, but I think it could be interesting.

November 2, 2014 9:16 p.m.

slovakattack says... #6

JexInfinite: That would be the Life from the Loam + Raven's Crime combo. (A common gifts pile is Life from the loam + Raven's Crime + Ghost Quarter + Man land.)

November 2, 2014 9:16 p.m.

slovakattack says... #7

bigguy99: The thought crossed my mind, but frankly I do not possess the skill level to make a 5-color deck. xD

November 2, 2014 9:51 p.m.

GlistenerAgent says... #8

Five color would make it worse, honestly. Red doesn't present any cards that are nearly as synergistic as anything you already have.

November 2, 2014 10:12 p.m.

MattTheNinja says... #9

Hey, the deck looks really good man! I run a similar list that me and a friend have been working on. In my list, I have Courser of Kruphix instead of Sylvan Caryatid though. Do you think caryatids are better that coursers? It's a great deck though so +1 from me and feel free to check out my list.

November 3, 2014 10:49 a.m.

slovakattack says... #10

MattTheNinja: If your meta has a lot of control, then the answer is undoubtably yes. However, It is difficult to compare the two, as they fulfill different functions. A much more intense argument could be made for the pros and cons of Sylvan Caryatid and Birds of Paradise , as they are much more similar.

I personally find Courser's mana cost prohibitive for a ramp card in a vacuum, and it is unlikely she will survive in a control-filled meta. She also does not allow for T2 Carytid -> T3 Gifts -> T4 Iona/Elesh Norn that can be rushed against aggro decks like RDW/Affinity. If you are using her for her ramping capabilities, I would suggest going with either Birds or Carytid (although if you go birds, I would suggest going with 4.)

If you are using her for her stall and lifegain, I would put in another 2 Finks instead.

November 3, 2014 11:24 a.m.

bcornett24 says... #11

November 5, 2014 4:32 p.m.

slovakattack says... #12

bcornett24: The current construction of my sideboard doesn't really allow for it, but that's pretty easily remedied. What benefit do you think Glittering Wish would add to my deck? What would you take out mainboard? Since this isn't a combo deck, I would basically be searching for things like Abrupt Decay in the sideboard, or other multicolored forms of removal.

November 5, 2014 6:22 p.m.

bcornett24 says... #13

slovakattack It was more just meant as an idea to consider but yeah colored removal and any other sideboard solutions you might need to help you win, but only if they are multicolored obviously.

November 5, 2014 11:59 p.m.

Azure124 says... #14

Iona and griselbrand need to be in the main board. They are the way gifts locks an opponent out of a game. I don't like only 2 inquisition in the deck would rather see hard removal or counter magic over it. You may want to consider a transformative side board into a more traditional control deck for game two if you suspect graveyard hate coming in. I'm not an expert in modern and I know there is no true correct way to build gifts. Toolbox your deck to your local meta and see what happens

November 6, 2014 1:11 p.m.

BLEATH says... #15

I actually kind of like the Glittering Wish option. It can be removal spell number 4 in another Gifts package (if of course, you've got multicolored options in your SB). But is otherwise unnecessary.

Secondly, why no Thoughtseize mainboard? Discard packages are cool.

Anywho, if you take a look at my profile, you'll see that Gifts decks are my favorite, and overall you did a very good job of constructing yours. Care to check out mine? :) +1

November 6, 2014 2:12 p.m.

sylvannos says... #16

A Glittering Wish package isn't needed. It chews into the sideboard and takes away valuable maindeck space that would normally be Gifts Ungiven targets. The main targets would be:

Dreadbore
Firespout
Fracturing Gust
Fulminator Mage
Hide/Seek
Loxodon Hierarch
Maelstrom Pulse
Pure/Simple
Rakdos Charm
Slaughter Games
Wheel of Sun and Moon

...none of which do anything not already available to Gifts Ungiven. For example, Maelstrom Pulse is already good in the sideboard without Glittering Wish. Fulminator Mage is easily replaced by Ghost Quarter/Tectonic Edge and locking the opponent out with Life from the Loam, which is already in the deck.

Plus, most of the good targets for Glittering Wish are red, which means playing another color.

November 6, 2014 9:47 p.m.

I recommend playing Glittering Wish. You can include a Jeskai Ascendancy in the sideboard, and some mana dorks in the maindeck. Play a bunch of cantrips and you've got a functional combo deck. It's only about 60 cards different in the main and sideboard, so it's not as big a change as you might think.

November 6, 2014 9:57 p.m.

bigguy99 says... #18

With all these suggestions comes adding a fifth color to the deck, and that's a huge change considering what's here. If that was to happen, I would take out the Grave Titan and one Liliana of the Veil to make room for some Glittering Wish and remove one Abrupt Decay for a Terminate. To make some room for other red stuff or more Glittering Wish, probably take out both Inquisition of Kozilek and add in one Thoughtseize.

November 6, 2014 10:06 p.m.

For the record, I was kidding.

November 6, 2014 10:13 p.m.

bigguy99 says... #20

I wasn't ;-;

November 6, 2014 10:15 p.m.

slovakattack says... #21

Oooh, lots of discussion here. I like it. Lemme try to throw my two cents in.

Azure124: The problem I have with Iona/Griz is that they are dead cards if you don't combo off. I try to minimize that risk as much as possible with this build. You're right on the IoK's, I'm probably gonna switch them out for Seize. Something interesting about this build is that it sort of -is- the control-oriented game two build that you suggest for the sideboard.

BLEATH: Discard packages aren't awful, but It'll be pretty rare that I will actively need to Gifts for a discard spell that targets a specific card. (In the maindeck, I can just search for Raven's Crime, Life from the Loam and two lands for mass discard.) The reason I have 2 IoK's, which will soon be TZ, is because they're very good one drops, and my deck doesn't really have any competing one drops at the moment. If I go up against certain decks like Tron, Abrupt Decay can be sideboarded out for more hand removal. On the subject of Glittering Wish, I just see no reason to use it over mainboard removal.

bigguy99: Five color decks are awesome, but they're a fantasy that doesn't really work all that well save for a few very specific cases. I feel like you slightly misunderstand Liliana of the Veil's purpose in this deck. She is there for discard and hard removal, yes, but she serves the equally important function of dumping win-cons such as Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite or Iona, Shield of Emeria into the graveyard should we accidentally draw into them. Without her, I'd have to resort to using Raven's Crime on myself just to get them into the graveyard if I draw them- which is gross, to say the least. Lili is pretty indispensable, to the point where many decklists run 4.

November 7, 2014 11:27 a.m.

Telerik says... #22

Just a basic question about Gifts Ungiven:

What do you normally fetch with it? Best case? normal case? Sorry to ask, I am new to Gift Control...

November 15, 2014 12:06 p.m.

There's a lot of it in his description.

The combo kill is Gifts Ungiven for Unburial Rites and a large creature, followed by reanimating that creature and hopefully winning the game with it.

Outside of that, packages include Eternal Witness + Snapcaster Mage + useful cards, allowing you to recur your spells if your opponent chooses to put them in the graveyard. Getting four different removal spells gives you two ways to deal with annoying creatures, and this deck also has a package of Wrath of God effects to find. Finally, the last common package is Life from the Loam + Raven's Crime in addition to utility lands, allowing you to repeatedly force your opponent to discard cards (especially useful against controlling decks) while also filling your yard for recursion spells and finding things like Academy Ruins and Celestial Colonnade.

November 15, 2014 12:12 p.m.

slovakattack says... #24

laoshan3337: Hey man, thanks for dropping by! An interesting thing about Gifts Ungiven is that you don't actually -have- to search for 4 cards, but your opponent will always have to dump up to 2 cards into your graveyard. This makes the combo of Unburial Rites + Game ending creature (such as Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite or Iona, Shield of Emeria extremely powerful. This is something I would search for against a deck I know isn't running graveyard hate, and will not be able to deal with the creature itself. (e.g, Iona vs. mono-red)

Alternatively, there are several 'gifts packages' that you can create using this deck. GlistenerAgent describes a lot of them, but the basic run down is:

Wrath package: Wrath of God + Supreme Verdict + Damnation + X value creature (a creature or card that just gives you more value. The value creatures in this deck are Snapcaster Mage and Eternal Witness.

Land destruction package: My land destruction is a little light- many gifts decks run Tectonic Edge in addition to Ghost Quarter to create the Tectonic Edge + Ghost Quarter + Life from the Loam + Raven's Crime package.

The Discard package Life from the Loam + Raven's Crime + Thoughtseize + land.

Removal package: This usually consists of 3-4 spot removal spells, or 3 spells and a value card. Example: Abrupt Decay + Path to Exile + Slaughter Pact + Maelstrom Pulse

The Artifact package: Life from the Loam + Academy Ruins + Batterskull + Engineered Explosives. No matter what your opponent chooses, you either get your artifacts, or you will get your artifacts.

November 15, 2014 9:33 p.m.

Telerik says... #25

Thank you for explaining this to me! It was really helpful

Nice deck, +1.

November 16, 2014 4:17 p.m.

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